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DH, a mail carrier, started to exhibit symptoms and was tested yesterday. I have symptoms as well and mine seem to be more severe but no where near a level where I want to see a doctor or go to a hosp

I don't understand the point of dismissing deaths on the basis that the person must have had some underlying condition, as if that means it doesn't really "count" somehow??? Around 40% of US adults ha

One guy just walked past my office door, pointed to his mask, and said, "Look! I'm wearing my mask!"  Another co-worker asked me yesterday if I would make a cloth mask for him.  I walked over to my de

17 hours ago, Kassia said:

 

Is that due to all of the nursing home outbreaks?  Unfortunately, we've (in Ohio)  had a lot of deaths from nursing homes (my FIL is in one) and jails.  

Florida i think has had over half the deaths in nursing homes?

Of course, deaths in nursing homes are not less upsetting than deaths anywhere else. And we can't keep this out of nursing homes if it is running rampant in the general public. 

4 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

My county had 117 new cases 😉.  Once again mainly students from the UCF area.  Several bars have closed there.  One popular one has had it’s liquor license suspended.....over 40 cases trace to them and they were giving women free drinks in a promotion to pack the place😠

Tomorrow testing moves to the other side of the county so hopefully numbers will decrease so I feel a bit more comfortable on my bike rides.  

Yeah, Orange County (much much bigger county) had 405 cases yesterday 😞

BUT - I had to go to the store today, and EVERYONE had on a mask! The mask mandate is actually being followed! Only ONE person had theirs pulled down, to talk on the phone. I wish she hadn't, but one person out of a whole store? So much better!!!! Even the kids, other than the really little ones, had masks!

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5,400 new cases today in Florida, 561 in orange county. Our percent positive test rate for the last week was over 10%, so over the guidelines for re-opening. 

I'm hoping and hoping that the new mandatory mask rule for Orange County and Palm Beach County will help soon. Will take a while though to see a difference. 

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15 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

5,400 new cases today in Florida, 561 in orange county. Our percent positive test rate for the last week was over 10%, so over the guidelines for re-opening. 

I'm hoping and hoping that the new mandatory mask rule for Orange County and Palm Beach County will help soon. Will take a while though to see a difference. 

It's really crazy. Two weeks ago when we came they were reporting around 2K cases a day and that seemed high at the time.

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7 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

Seminole number for today is 176😞.  Still over near the University with the testing.  That was a 22% positive rate.

Today’s testing is nearer to us.  Each day they do two locations,  one by appointment and one drive in.  This morning at 9:30 I looked at the drive i and they were full...as in all 350 tests that they had on site had a person in a car waiting.  I wonder what tomorrow’s number will be.......

I heard of a church deciding to go back to all online again too.
 

 

Wow - 22% is..wow! I mean, that's expected if testing people at say, a hospital, but for just coming in? Ugh. 

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I would be very happy is our church went back to online only. We have pre-sanctified communion now that we can pick up (wearing a mask, no contact) on Fridays, to consume during the livestream service. They have zoom prayer meetings, compline service, etc as well. And send a link to a virtual (video) Sunday School for the kids, a coloring page, etc. 

Is it great? Nope. Not even a bit. Listening to the sermon while cleaning the living room is not the same as attending. But can I do it for a year, to save lives? Yeah. Absolutely. 

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FYI Florida is changing how they report ICU beds...and there are several sources saying they are manipulating other data in order to make it look like a downswing of cases before July 4th 😞

the ICU thing is confirmed and official - if a hospital keeps all their COVID patients in the ICU because they don't have another safe, dedicated place for them, they can no longer report those ICU beds as full unless the patient is receiving an "intensive" level of care. Until now, they've been reporting those beds as full, because they ARE full, and just because the person in them doesn't need that high a care level doesn't mean they are not there, and that the bed is not in use, and unavailable for other ICU patients. 

So hundreds of ICU beds that have patients in them will be reported as available, when they are not actually available. 

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24 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

FYI Florida is changing how they report ICU beds...and there are several sources saying they are manipulating other data in order to make it look like a downswing of cases before July 4th 😞

the ICU thing is confirmed and official - if a hospital keeps all their COVID patients in the ICU because they don't have another safe, dedicated place for them, they can no longer report those ICU beds as full unless the patient is receiving an "intensive" level of care. Until now, they've been reporting those beds as full, because they ARE full, and just because the person in them doesn't need that high a care level doesn't mean they are not there, and that the bed is not in use, and unavailable for other ICU patients. 

So hundreds of ICU beds that have patients in them will be reported as available, when they are not actually available. 

Could you link a source for me? I'd like to share it with my brother's family.

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

FYI Florida is changing how they report ICU beds...and there are several sources saying they are manipulating other data in order to make it look like a downswing of cases before July 4th 😞

the ICU thing is confirmed and official - if a hospital keeps all their COVID patients in the ICU because they don't have another safe, dedicated place for them, they can no longer report those ICU beds as full unless the patient is receiving an "intensive" level of care. Until now, they've been reporting those beds as full, because they ARE full, and just because the person in them doesn't need that high a care level doesn't mean they are not there, and that the bed is not in use, and unavailable for other ICU patients. 

So hundreds of ICU beds that have patients in them will be reported as available, when they are not actually available. 

Wow, have they started reporting this way already? What is the goal for available ICU beds? 

Right now, the state  overall has 19% adult  ICU beds available according to this website:

https://bi.ahca.myflorida.com/t/ABICC/views/Public/ICUBedsCounty?%3AshowAppBanner=false&%3Adisplay_count=n&%3AshowVizHome=n&%3Aorigin=viz_share_link&%3AisGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y&%3Aembed=y

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47 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Could you link a source for me? I'd like to share it with my brother's family.

https://www.floridaphoenix.com/blog/objections-raised-to-desantis-adminstrations-accounting-for-covid-patients-in-icu-beds/

24 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Oh, please go google county commissioner meeting for Palm Beach, Florida in regards to mandatory masking. These people are off the chart nuts. You wonder why this country is in deep doo-doo? These people vote. And raise children. 

I'm a palm beach county native, I'm well aware, lol. My best friend, who is getting a PET scan in a few hours for a partially collapsed lung following months of lung issues lives there still, with her immune compromised son. She's very very worried. Rightly so. 

11 minutes ago, Jen500 said:

Wow, have they started reporting this way already? What is the goal for available ICU beds? 

Right now, the state  overall has 19% adult  ICU beds available according to this website:

https://bi.ahca.myflorida.com/t/ABICC/views/Public/ICUBedsCounty?%3AshowAppBanner=false&%3Adisplay_count=n&%3AshowVizHome=n&%3Aorigin=viz_share_link&%3AisGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y&%3Aembed=y

The goal was originally to have 30% available at all times. We are not meeting that, or really any other statistic we were supposed to in order to reopen. Hospital cases are up, ER visits are up, cases are up, percent positive tests are way way up, and yet...here we are. Seminole county, next door to Orange (I shop in Seminole) had a 22% positive rate for tests yesterday!

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Just now, Seasider too said:

Are y’all still there? Does your dh have a new appreciation for your level of concern?

 

I am in Coral Springs and he is up near Tampa at Holmes Beach with his family.  I can't tell that he thinks it is really a huge issue.  I did text him today about the numbers and he asked if I wanted to come up.  I told him it was more risky where he was (with four different family units in one house where three flew in and all but my family picks up food twice daily).  I will meet him in Ocala tomorrow and we will drive home from there. 

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Florida broke another record today with the number of people testing positive. Also, six of the last seven days have seen positive numbers above 3.000. 

Brevard County saw a record 105 new cases today. I'm actually surprised we didn't see the record sooner due to crowded beaches on Memorial Day and the launch. Brevard's percentage is lower than a lot of surrounding counties but it went from 1% positive during the height of restrictions to 12% now. 

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7 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Oh, please go google county commissioner meeting for Palm Beach, Florida in regards to mandatory masking. These people are off the chart nuts. You wonder why this country is in deep doo-doo? These people vote. And raise children. 

Wow, you weren't kidding. 😳  

I wonder how the person who was arguing that wearing a mask = "throwing God's wonderful breathing system out the door" feels about ventilators? 🤔

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6 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Oh, please go google county commissioner meeting for Palm Beach, Florida in regards to mandatory masking. These people are off the chart nuts. You wonder why this country is in deep doo-doo? These people vote. And raise children. 

 

😳

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cbs12.com/amp/news/local/throw-gods-wonderful-breathing-system-out-the-door

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TLDR - deaths are probably going up. A lot.
Something very concerning I just saw on the deaths graph on the state dashboard. I've said before, that it takes weeks to months to have deaths actually reported. So for instance, on June 9th, when I looked at the day before, it said there were 5 deaths on June 8th. Low, right? But if you kept an eye on it, as time went on, they kept adding deaths to that date, backfilling as death certificates were filed. So from 5, to 8, to 10, to 14, to 22, to 24 over the past few weeks. Well, if I look at June 22...it says 24 deaths. Same as June 8th. EXCEPT - we haven't backfilled in June 22 yet - that will take a few weeks. If the deaths on June 22 increase at the same rate as the others have it could really be over 100 deaths!

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10 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Welcome to Florida 🙂

This is NOT atypical. 

 I don’t really believe that it’s limited to Florida, I think there are pockets of people everywhere who could display that kind of  emotional, irrational thought. Those folks just got themselves filmed and posted on the national news .

I usually hate those “Florida Man..” type of stories, and defend the state when others poke at it, but I have to say, there seems to be an invisible line from Sarasota to St Augustine, south of which the general population gets more eccentric by the mile. 

(I confess my bias towards out of state tourists being the ones to pour out foolishness on my beloved NW FL coast😆, aided and abetted by state govt).

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11 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

TLDR - deaths are probably going up. A lot.
Something very concerning I just saw on the deaths graph on the state dashboard. I've said before, that it takes weeks to months to have deaths actually reported. So for instance, on June 9th, when I looked at the day before, it said there were 5 deaths on June 8th. Low, right? But if you kept an eye on it, as time went on, they kept adding deaths to that date, backfilling as death certificates were filed. So from 5, to 8, to 10, to 14, to 22, to 24 over the past few weeks. Well, if I look at June 22...it says 24 deaths. Same as June 8th. EXCEPT - we haven't backfilled in June 22 yet - that will take a few weeks. If the deaths on June 22 increase at the same rate as the others have it could really be over 100 deaths!

It’s weird they are keeping track that way. I noticed our state dashboard will just change the date range when they give us new deaths everyday. Like, yesterday it listed 9 new deaths but the range was from the beginning of June until yesterday. Today’s might go further back or it might just be the last few days. No matter what I know when I see the new death number it is all new deaths known. They don’t hide it by going back and adjusting a previous day. That would bother me. They also give a number everyday of probable deaths so we know what’s coming.

Dh’s company is based in FL and they’ve yet to allow employees back in the office but they let them know this week they considered themselves back at phase 0 due to the numbers there. I wish everyone in FL was taking it as seriously.

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1 hour ago, Joker said:

It’s weird they are keeping track that way. I noticed our state dashboard will just change the date range when they give us new deaths everyday. Like, yesterday it listed 9 new deaths but the range was from the beginning of June until yesterday. Today’s might go further back or it might just be the last few days. No matter what I know when I see the new death number it is all new deaths known. They don’t hide it by going back and adjusting a previous day. That would bother me. They also give a number everyday of probable deaths so we know what’s coming.

Dh’s company is based in FL and they’ve yet to allow employees back in the office but they let them know this week they considered themselves back at phase 0 due to the numbers there. I wish everyone in FL was taking it as seriously.

Yup, it is a ridiculous way to post it. It basically is posted an unfinished chart, which is VERY misleading. And I hate to stay it, but I am pretty positive that is the point. To mislead people into thinking deaths are perpetually trending downward. Even the local public radio station didn't see the disclaimer and amended their story after I pointed it out. If a professional journalist missed it, and fell for the ruse, who else is? Pretty much everyone, that's who. 

This screenshot shows the graph they have up - the screenshot goes all the way to the bottom of the browser window. See the caption at the bottom, with the two lines of text? That two lines high box is designed for you to scroll through it, and several lines down is where the info is about how they backfill the dates. Who on earth is going to actually notice that? There is no reason they couldn't have made that explanation more obvious, except they don't want to. 

Screen Shot 2020-06-25 at 11.18.18 AM.png

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But don't you need to see them included on the day the dealth happened to see an accurate curve/trend?  If one county reports all their numbers on one day each week, your curve will look very different than if you report them only on the day reported.  If testing takes awhile and they haven't confirmed it is covid, reporting it later doesn't mean it didn't happen 2 weeks ago.

I like the way they do it personally.  I think it is more realistic.  

Math class taught me to read all the info in a graph.  The title clearly states "by date of death."  I don't see the problem.

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3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I actually think the trend by "day reported" is generally pretty good, because it's not incomplete in the same way. So, on the one hand, the trend by day of death is more accurate in the long run, and on the other hand, it's an awful way to examine recent data, because it's not complete.

I think both curves have utility. I personally prefer the "by date reported" graphs for real-time decisions. 

But that's another graph.  So there is nothing wrong with the graph that they have; it just sounds like everyone would also like another that is per day reported.  Which is fine, but the graph they have is the one I personally want to see.

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4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

By the way, I was looking at US-level data, and I discovered that deaths track positivity rate a lot better than they track case numbers. If this remains true, that would suggest tough times for Florida ahead :-/. 

Good observation.  Something to watch. 

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Just now, square_25 said:

There's nothing wrong with it, as long as you understand the drop at the end isn't meaningful. And it's not showing the current trend very well. 

Other places do have the "by day reported" graphs, though, so you could use those. Worldometer has one. 

Agreed.  And this is where education comes into play.  Being able to figure out what the graph is showing, realize that it isn't a full data set as long as the crisis continues, and use the data from the new cases graphs to create an educated guess on how it might trend going forward.  Discussing it on TWTM doesn't hurt, either. 😉 

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4 minutes ago, ikslo said:

Agreed.  And this is where education comes into play.  Being able to figure out what the graph is showing, realize that it isn't a full data set as long as the crisis continues, and use the data from the new cases graphs to create an educated guess on how it might trend going forward.  Discussing it on TWTM doesn't hurt, either. 😉 

Quoting myself to say that I do believe that they should show more than just the past month of data.  It would be much better if the graph went back to the beginning.

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3 hours ago, Seasider too said:

 

I usually hate those “Florida Man..” type of stories, and defend the state when others poke at it, but I have to say, there seems to be an invisible line from Sarasota to St Augustine, south of which the general population gets more eccentric by the mile. 

 

I hate that too. What people never seem to understand with Florida Man is that we have so many people who came from other states. Florida Man is really Indiana Man and Kentucky Man and New Hampshire Man and maybe even London Man or Vienna Man. They come from all over the world. As Dave Barry said in Best. State. Ever

(emphasis his)
"But most of those people came here from other states, the very same states that are laughing at Florida. Those of us who live here have to contend with not just our native-born stupid but your stupid too."

2 hours ago, Joker said:

 

Dh’s company is based in FL and they’ve yet to allow employees back in the office but they let them know this week they considered themselves back at phase 0 due to the numbers there. I wish everyone in FL was taking it as seriously.

Dh works for a civilian contractor on a military base here. I believe it's Air Force rules though it could be his company, but they all have to wear masks. They sanitize the work stations between shifts. They even leave non-security doors propped open so that people don't have to keep touching door handles. Some rooms are badge entry so there's nothing they can do about those, but doors to other rooms are propped open. On the launch console instead of having everyone at a console next to each other they've spread people out. The console usually isn't at capacity anyway so there's no reason for them all to sit next to one another.  Some people are working from home but it's tricky because of security issues. Those who have to go to work are being protected and from what dh says everyone is taking it seriously and helping to protect each other.

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14 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Welcome to Florida 🙂

This is NOT atypical. 

I gotta say DH and I are having fun with the bit from the lady in the video who has a lot of question marks and would “ask suggestively” that someone go back to school. 
 

And it’s good to have a laugh to distract from the absolute embarrassment of having these people as fellow citizens.

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40 minutes ago, ikslo said:

But don't you need to see them included on the day the dealth happened to see an accurate curve/trend?  If one county reports all their numbers on one day each week, your curve will look very different than if you report them only on the day reported.  If testing takes awhile and they haven't confirmed it is covid, reporting it later doesn't mean it didn't happen 2 weeks ago.

I like the way they do it personally.  I think it is more realistic.  

Math class taught me to read all the info in a graph.  The title clearly states "by date of death."  I don't see the problem.

Right, but I'm betting most people do not realize that the data is incomplete - they think that the data for yesterday is as complete as the data for a month ago, so that that graph is showing what is actually happening, when it isn't. A better explanation that you can see when you look at the graph, rahter than a tiny box you have to scroll down through to find that info would make a difference. I'm telling you, NO ONE i've talked too saw that disclaimer. They saw the sentence saying by date of death, not the rest of it that says it lags and takes weeks to update, retroactively. So they see 8 deaths for yesterday and think that is how many there were for yesterday. Not how many are reported SO FAR for yesterday. Big difference. 

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2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Right, but I'm betting most people do not realize that the data is incomplete - they think that the data for yesterday is as complete as the data for a month ago, so that that graph is showing what is actually happening, when it isn't. A better explanation that you can see when you look at the graph, rahter than a tiny box you have to scroll down through to find that info would make a difference. I'm telling you, NO ONE i've talked too saw that disclaimer. They saw the sentence saying by date of death, not the rest of it that says it lags and takes weeks to update, retroactively. So they see 8 deaths for yesterday and think that is how many there were for yesterday. Not how many are reported SO FAR for yesterday. Big difference. 

 

Which could be true for many of these graphs.

if they look like they are lowering a little they may actually not be

 

I had been taking screenshots of graphs and tables earlier in pandemic. Now maybe I’ll start doing that again so I can compare. 

 

If this is true for worldometer in general as well as your state, they might be willing to put a more prominent explanation.   So perhaps might weather channel. 

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3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Right, but I'm betting most people do not realize that the data is incomplete - they think that the data for yesterday is as complete as the data for a month ago, so that that graph is showing what is actually happening, when it isn't. A better explanation that you can see when you look at the graph, rahter than a tiny box you have to scroll down through to find that info would make a difference. I'm telling you, NO ONE i've talked too saw that disclaimer. They saw the sentence saying by date of death, not the rest of it that says it lags and takes weeks to update, retroactively. So they see 8 deaths for yesterday and think that is how many there were for yesterday. Not how many are reported SO FAR for yesterday. Big difference. 

How would you suggest they show that?  A different color bar wouldn't really work because there is no way to say "the information from X date is complete."  So what would be considered better than the title and disclaimer they already have?  Maybe an asterisk below the title: "*Lags in reporting may cause more recent dates to be incomplete at this time" - Would that work?

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

Which could be true for many of these graphs.

if they look like they are lowering a little they may actually not be

 

 

It's more a constant steady downward curve for the past few weeks, always and forever, because those days are not filled in yet. So yeah, the average person looking isn't going to realize that's not accurate data yet. A disclaimer you can read, rather than trying to fiddle through, would be helpful. 

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1 minute ago, ikslo said:

How would you suggest they show that?  A different color bar wouldn't really work because there is no way to say "the information from X date is complete."  So what would be considered better than the title and disclaimer they already have?  Maybe an asterisk below the title: "*Lags in reporting may cause more recent dates to be incomplete at this time" - Would that work?

Yup. That would work. Having the explanation AS visible as the graph itself. Not hidden. Which is really is. (the cdc does the asterisk with a footnote, which I had no trouble with)

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This the full disclaimer (which on my screen takes 5 lines of text but they put it in a box that holds two lines of text)- The Deaths by Day chart shows the total number of Florida residents with confirmed COVID-19 that died on each calendar day (12:00 AM - 11:59 PM). Death data often has significant delays in reporting, so data within the past two weeks will be updated frequently.

 

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Yup, it is a ridiculous way to post it. It basically is posted an unfinished chart, which is VERY misleading. And I hate to stay it, but I am pretty positive that is the point. To mislead people into thinking deaths are perpetually trending downward. Even the local public radio station didn't see the disclaimer and amended their story after I pointed it out. If a professional journalist missed it, and fell for the ruse, who else is? Pretty much everyone, that's who. 

This screenshot shows the graph they have up - the screenshot goes all the way to the bottom of the browser window. See the caption at the bottom, with the two lines of text? That two lines high box is designed for you to scroll through it, and several lines down is where the info is about how they backfill the dates. Who on earth is going to actually notice that? There is no reason they couldn't have made that explanation more obvious, except they don't want to. 

Screen Shot 2020-06-25 at 11.18.18 AM.png

 

4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Yup. That would work. Having the explanation AS visible as the graph itself. Not hidden. Which is really is. (the cdc does the asterisk with a footnote, which I had no trouble with)

I also wonder if the size of your screen (or browser?) makes a difference.  Your same chart on my screen looks like this:

image.png.10452a22ca2355d5d73797a48608bed8.png

Edited by ikslo
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4 minutes ago, ikslo said:

 

I also wonder if the size of your screen (or browser?) makes a difference.  Your same chart on my screen looks like this:

image.png.10452a22ca2355d5d73797a48608bed8.png

oh, maybe? I've looked on a few screens, but could be browser. I know the local reporter didn't know and hadn't seen the disclaimer until I pointed it out,and neither have a lot of my friends, so it isn't just me, lol. 

I'm using chrome?

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10 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

I'm using chrome?

Me, too - Chrome.  Wide screen on my work computer.  Maybe the people running the site see what I see and just don't realize that it isn't obvious to others was all I was getting at.  It may not be that they are intentionally trying to hide anything or make the numbers look like they are trending down.  They may see the full disclaimer and assume others are seeing it as well.

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1 minute ago, ikslo said:

Me, too - Chrome.  Wide screen on my work computer.  Maybe the people running the site see what I see and just don't realize that it isn't obvious to others was all I was getting at.  It may not be that they are intentionally trying to hide anything or make the numbers look like they are trending down.  They may see the full disclaimer and assume others are seeing it as well.

oh - maybe? Mine is a regular laptop screen - 15 inch I think? 

I will say, given some of the issues in Florida regarding the data....I'm not inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. 

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

oh - maybe? Mine is a regular laptop screen - 15 inch I think? 

I will say, given some of the issues in Florida regarding the data....I'm not inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. 

Fair enough.  I won't argue with you there!

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22 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I was curious whate percentage of HIlsborough's cases were within the last two weeks after watching this, so I did the calculation and came up with 58% (based on the FL dashboard numbers). 😞 We heard all of the parties going on around us over the holiday weekend while we hung out alone in our back yard, and I remember my husband predicting it would not end well.

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Yeah, Florida's data makes me super nervous. There seem to be constant efforts to manipulate it to look better. 

And politicians flat out lying about it. The number of times the governor tried to say the issue was just more testing was pretty impressive, even as the data CLEARLY showed ER rates up, percent positive tests up, etc. It was a flat out lie, and he just kept repeating it. 

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4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Yeah, I want to see how more testing results in more hospitalizations and a higher percent positive... 

It's like...its such an OBVIOUS lie...but then, it works. LOTS of news reporters let it slide, not correcting it, etc. People in general believed it. 

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Ugh. We've had a 17 year old die of Covid in the area now. And most of the hospitalizations are people in their 40s and 50s'. My age bracket, and that of my friends, and many teachers, etc. https://www.wmfe.org/central-florida-doctors-warn-younger-patients-are-not-immune-to-serious-coronavirus-complications/157682

And I looked up the 17 year old, and there is more than one. A boy who died back on April 18th is not yet counted, it seems, because the autopsy is just happening????

Edited by Ktgrok
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One guy just walked past my office door, pointed to his mask, and said, "Look! I'm wearing my mask!"  Another co-worker asked me yesterday if I would make a cloth mask for him.  I walked over to my desk and got him one.  

I guess I'm getting through to at least a few people.  Success!

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16 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

It's like...its such an OBVIOUS lie...but then, it works. LOTS of news reporters let it slide, not correcting it, etc. People in general believed it. 

They've been well trained over the past three years. ..

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