Y’all. Tulsa is spiking, OK is spiking...

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

The arena capacity is 19,000.

The entire event is estimated to draw about 100,000 to the city.

Or at least those are the numbers I've consistently seen. I don't think there's any inside arena in the U.S. that comes anywhere close to holding 100,000 people!

Why will it draw 100k????? That was the figure given by the campaign of how many applied for the tickets and they were having a drawing of who was getting tickets.  I assume that was already done and the people who get to go know who they are and the people who don't get to go know who they are too.  Now I can see some people going to see the motorcade or if they open up another viewing place and others who will gather in front of the arena.  But 100K?????  It seems like the media and certain political figures of the opposite party have latched on to the figure of how many registered for the tickets and turned it into a figure of how many are coming.

 

Oh and Scarlett, this is not to dismiss your concern.  Even if they have every other seat unoccupied, etc,  9000 people, if not wearing masks, and even if wearing masks is something I wouldn't be attending and would be concerned about spread of the virus.

[Pawz4me]

4 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Why will it draw 100k????? That was the figure given by the campaign of how many applied for the tickets and they were having a drawing of who was getting tickets.

I don't know, but it's the number that several news outlets, including WSJ and NBC, are saying is being estimated by local officials. And I don't believe anything put out by the Trump campaign, given their extremely well documented history of easily verifiable lies.

 

[MEmama]

6 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Why will it draw 100k????? That was the figure given by the campaign of how many applied for the tickets and they were having a drawing of who was getting tickets.  I assume that was already done and the people who get to go know who they are and the people who don't get to go know who they are too.  Now I can see some people going to see the motorcade or if they open up another viewing place and others who will gather in front of the arena.  But 100K?????  It seems like the media and certain political figures of the opposite party have latched on to the figure of how many registered for the tickets and turned it into a figure of how many are coming.

And yet it actually seems that T/P claim a *million* people have requested to be there...https://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-governor-seeks-larger-event-for-trumps-tulsa-rally

Hmmm...

[TravelingChris]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I think the 100K figure is everyone downtown combined.  The rally, protesters, people celebrating Juneteenth.  

But why are they celebrating Juneteenth on Saturday???? Today is Juneteenth.  That is why the rally was moved to Sat.  

And yeah, I definitely can understand your concern.  We have had a peaceful rally like we usually have in our city be hijacked by outside agitators (one of who is wanted by the FBI because he has been in many cities trying to cause violence and property destruction) who brought cement blocks, knives, and some other materials that they hid for use in an after rally riot they wanted to foment.  Several of the people at this after rally illegal protest had guns, And these outside people brought protective clothing because they were trying to start something and figured police would respond.  Which they did and now people who weren't there to start a riot are complaining but the police had warned people to disperse for an hour and my suggestion to anyone at any rally or event is if the police want you to disperse--- disperse.  They do not have the time or the ability to tell you that there are terrorists in the group or they suspect  a bomb or whatever it is .  Get out of the way.  You can protest the order later- you can file a protest with the city or county or state or federal.  But do not stay after police are urging you to disperse unless you like pepper spray, getting trampled, possibly arrested, etc.

[MEmama]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes this is what we are worried about.  Of course we won't be going to Tulsa this weekend, but for the next 3 weeks at least we are going to be extra careful.  Glad I am getting my hair done tomorrow!  

I wish my in-laws would take similar precautions! But nope, “everything is back to normal” there according to them so... 😞

Be safe, Scarlett. 

[TravelingChris]

3 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I don't know, but it's the number that several news outlets, including WSJ and NBC, are saying is being estimated by local officials. And I don't believe anything put out by the Trump campaign, given their extremely well documented history of easily verifiable lies.

 

I take everything with a grain of salt.  I don't believe almost anything being put out by much of the media too nowadays-   and certainly nothing put out by certain Dems.  So much is suspect nowadays.  Which is why I like reading more sources that I find credible--- I do not find NBC to be credible in most cases and I am not just talking about politics.  But I read a detailed account of how the rally is being conducted and I think Scarlett's explanation that the 100K is not just Trump people but all people expected to be in the downtown area.  What I have no idea about is how many people could be expected on a usual busy Saturday with some sort of celebration and others just doing what they normally do.  

[Pawz4me]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

And yet it actually seems that T/P claim a *million* people have requested to be there...https://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-governor-seeks-larger-event-for-trumps-tulsa-rally

Hmmm...

That sounds to me as if he's tactfully using the campaign's outlandish claim as a way to try to convince them that an outdoor venue would be better. 

[Alte Veste Academy]

8 hours ago, Terabith said:

I mean, there are already a crap ton of Trump 2020 masks being sold places like amazon.  The official campaign website, however, does not have masks on it.  

Since he came out today saying people were wearing masks, not because they care about health but to "signal disapproval of him," I'm kinda skeptical they'll be selling them at the rally.  Which seems like a dumb loss of potential revenue.  

I mean, right? And that's apart from the fact that he says outright they're not a good look and disparages others who wear them. And that is all despite the fact that the official position of the CDC is to recommend them. Leading by example is not really his strong suit. LOL/not 

The only reason I can imagine him recommending people wear masks at his rallies is if he sells them himself for his own personal profit. 

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, MEmama said:

And yet it actually seems that T/P claim a *million* people have requested to be there...https://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-governor-seeks-larger-event-for-trumps-tulsa-rally

Hmmm...

I saw that.  Because you know, the most people ever wanted to come.  

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I take everything with a grain of salt.  I don't believe almost anything being put out by much of the media too nowadays-   and certainly nothing put out by certain Dems.  So much is suspect nowadays.  Which is why I like reading more sources that I find credible--- I do not find NBC to be credible in most cases and I am not just talking about politics.  But I read a detailed account of how the rally is being conducted and I think Scarlett's explanation that the 100K is not just Trump people but all people expected to be in the downtown area.  What I have no idea about is how many people could be expected on a usual busy Saturday with some sort of celebration and others just doing what they normally do.  

I think Juneteenth would have naturally spilled over to include the whole weekend....the worry to me is not the number of people so much as the mix of various mindsets, some very radical.   I will be surprised if no one dies this weekend in Tulsa.  Quick Trip has boarded up at least 6 of their stores due to safety concerns.  Other businesses are boarding up too.  I was googling for some info (I heard the people waiting in line for the rally had been made to move by the police and I was trying to verify that) when I saw a video of a young black man sneak up on a man sitting in a chair in line for the rally.  Black man begins beating the crap out of the trump supporter.  A bunch of people in line run toward the black guy screaming and cursing at him...and one trump supporter padded his waist as if to indicate he had a gun there, which I am sure he did.  Him and no telling how many others.  

I think it is a powder keg.

[PeterPan]

42 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I think most people who did not receive tickets won't come. 

They don't collect the tickets. There aren't really tickets. You're simply filling out their data gathering forms. It will be totally first come, first serve, and no one is at the front asking to scan your supposed "ticket." If you got a "ticket" but aren't in the first however many that fit in the building or overflow, you won't be getting in.

 

21 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

the 100K is not just Trump people

Nuts, given the publicity I'd be shocked if there aren't *more* than that. They said 100k people asked for tickets online. They're planning overflow venues and live performance music. This is gonna be big. I guess we'll watch and see. I'm just assuming a lot more than that will show up. 

22 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

despite the fact that the official position of the CDC is to recommend them.

Yeah, but Fauci (not CDC, but still) also recommended hooking up as safe. I can't fathom anybody in this crowd giving one whit what Fauci or the CDC says. And if the WHO says it, you can double down bet they won't be doing it, lol. 

Ok, here's the thing. I suggested it's *possible* that Trump is sort of ahead of the curve here, that this is reasonable and fine and going to be fine. So a parallel example to me would be church. Our state has had some churches meeting all along with no outbreaks (at least not that I've seen in the news or heard of locally) and now ALL churches have been meeting for 3-5 weeks. Ours was later than many, and we're not hearing of any outbreaks even with scattered mask usage and singing.

So you've got a big venue, clapping instead of singing, lots of air flow and volume of air. It *could* be that Trump is just forward on this and it turns out way better than what people fear. Our church data seems to imply that. It would be a nice thought. Not saying it will happen that way, but it *could*. It would be a non doomsday potential outcome. We could all wish for that.

[Alte Veste Academy]

19 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Yeah, but Fauci (not CDC, but still) also recommended hooking up as safe. I can't fathom anybody in this crowd giving one whit what Fauci or the CDC says. 

No, he did not recommend hooking up or claim it was safe. He stated it like he states everything else, that all interaction comes with risk. Certain unethical outlets twisted his words by saying he "endorsed" hooking up. 🙄 He advised against it and mentioned other ways of combating loneliness. 

I do totally agree with you that the people in this crowd don't care about what Fauci or the CDC or any other public health expert says, at least in part because of constant consumption of misrepresentations of the truth like the one you claimed above.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Alte Veste Academy

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

all interaction comes with risk.

Well that's definitely what's happening this weekend, lol. I'm just very interested to see how it goes. I think everyone should *hope* it goes well. 

[PeterPan]

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/curfew-now-in-place-in-area-around-tulsas-bok-center/article_711ed27d-0eb9-50d8-80c5-f4e71f04647e.html  Whoa, did y'all see this? They imposed a curfew and are pulling out all the people who are camped there. 

[MEmama]

2 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/curfew-now-in-place-in-area-around-tulsas-bok-center/article_711ed27d-0eb9-50d8-80c5-f4e71f04647e.html  Whoa, did y'all see this? They imposed a curfew and are pulling out all the people who are camped there. 

Smart move.

[teachermom2834]

About the crowd size- a couple years ago Mike Pence came to my small town and they did the register online for tickets thing and about 5x the number the venue could hold registered and you still had to line up hours early to get in. So, having seen that play out for Mike Pence I can imagine massive numbers for Trump in the current climate. I cannot imagine an empty seat. They could probably fill the venue over and over. Regardless of how you feel about him, he really can fill a venue and somehow get people camping out for days to get in. 

So, I can see huge crowds in Tulsa this weekend with all parties combined 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

And yet it actually seems that T/P claim a *million* people have requested to be there...https://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-governor-seeks-larger-event-for-trumps-tulsa-rally

Hmmm...

Yes, I heard this too. They said it on the news channel where they photoshop pictures of CHAZ to make it seem like force is justified. Oops...got off topic...

[KungFuPanda]

4 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

What 100,000 person indoor event, with people in place for a significant period of time, has their been?

The protests were outdoors, and i mean, those did often end in tear gas and rubber bullets, so not exactly the same thing. But there probably WILL be lots of yelling, so that part is the same. But yeah, 100,000 people, many of whom have made a strong stance against masking, all sitting in doors together chanting loudly. In a pandemic. 

Maybe this is regional, but our local protestors were both outdoors AND masked. 

[Joker]

7 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Maybe this is regional, but our local protestors were both outdoors AND masked. 

Every protest we’ve been to here had organizers that push masks hard. Almost every person was wearing one. And, yes, all outdoors as well.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

 

Ok, here's the thing. I suggested it's *possible* that Trump is sort of ahead of the curve here, that this is reasonable and fine and going to be fine.

No, He might get LUCKY, in that no one there spreads it, but that doesn't make it reasonable. That isn't the same thing. I could run into the center of the highway naked, and if there are no cars coming at that moment I won't get hit by a car. That doesn't make it a reasonable action, it means I got lucky. 

Having many thousands of people sit shoulder to shoulder, cheering and chanting, for a prolonged period of time, in a pandemic, is in no way reasonable. And about as smart as running into the highway naked, I'd venture. 

I HOPE I'm wrong. Dear lord so I hope that. But if I and public health experts are right, many people will pay the price. This isn't a thought experiment, these are people's lives we are talking about. And not just the lives of the people attending, and working the event, but the lives of everyone they work with the next week, that they see at church, that they go to a restaurant or coffee shop with, etc. The whole community may pay the price. 

That anyone thinks that gamble is worth taking, for a "vote for me" speech, is the farthest thing from reasonable. 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Ktgrok

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

So what do you figure is going on? Why do you think a situation which has previously been shown to produce spread will now not produce spread? 

I mean... the whole thing is a crapshoot. It's random. We don't know what produces spread and what doesn't for sure. And some things are just plain luck. But we have many examples of indoor places with large gatherings producing spread. Why is a rally going to be different? Why is a church going to be different? Why would you assume that the reason you've been spared isn't simply luck so far, and that you may not be spared forever? 

Magical thinking.

[Pen]

UVc virucidal Lighting  and superb down suction air filtration could perhaps help. 

The new UVc lights some university has been working on looked very promising. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Pen

[73349]

Pen, I could see virucidal UV being effective in an empty space between events (say, a morning and an evening church service), but not during an event. Air blowing to the outdoors is a great idea but not necessarily a quick fix with existing architecture.

I don't see mass indoor events, especially without masks mandated, as likely to be reasonably safe anytime soon. Not a concert, not a political rally, not a sportsball event... just stream it, y'all.

[EmseB]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Yes this is what we are worried about.  Of course we won't be going to Tulsa this weekend, but for the next 3 weeks at least we are going to be extra careful.  Glad I am getting my hair done tomorrow!  

Should I cross Tulsa off our future places to live list?? 😂

Sorry, don't mean to be flippant, but this is kind of not the news I want while dh is job hunting and we're looking at a move.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Having many thousands of people sit shoulder to shoulder, cheering and chanting, for a prolonged period of time, in a pandemic, is in no way reasonable. And about as smart as running into the highway naked, I'd venture. 

 

Even not during a pandemic. There's a reason people come home from Comic-con etc. sniffly and cruddy. (If only more people incorporated masks into their cosplay, or especially their not-cosplay...!)

Scarlett, I don't love this option because there are ethical issues there as well, but can you get your groceries delivered?

[Jentrovert]

Scarlett, I hope you are stocked up and can stay out of stores the next 2-3 weeks.

I'm in southern OK, almost TX. It's sometimes a pain living so rurally, but right now I'm pretty grateful for it.

I'm wondering who from our small town will be in Tulsa this weekend and bring it back with them. 

[Tanaqui]

14 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Do you feel like there are ethical issues with all delivery, or just certain types?

I try really hard not to do delivery that's like Instacart where someone goes into a store, because I think it's basically taking the risk from me and putting it on them.  But I feel like something like Peapod, where the workers are in a relatively empty warehouse, or doing contactless delivery, is maybe better than having the same workers in a grocery store?  I hope that's true, since that's what we're doing.  

It's possible that I have a weird fantasy vision of a Peapod warehouse that bares no resemblance to reality.  

 

I think if they're mostly going into a warehouse with just their coworkers then that's better than if they're going in with all the shoppers. Obviously somebody needs to get food, so there aren't any really good options.

I've been tipping really, REALLY well - the main ethical issue I'm concerned about is working conditions and pay, and the only thing I can really fix about that is my tipping habits.

[Tanaqui]

I think peapod tips just go to the driver, which bugs me. I'd be glad to tip both. I really can't do the grocery store right now - like you, we've got an at-risk person at home (in my case, my mother) and we also have multiple asthmatics in the household. I don't think ethics is best served by letting my mom drop dead.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Tanaqui

[ktgrok]

46 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Do you feel like there are ethical issues with all delivery, or just certain types?

I try really hard not to do delivery that's like Instacart where someone goes into a store, because I think it's basically taking the risk from me and putting it on them. 

I figure the more people that do delivery, the less people in the store, and the safer it is for those professional shoppers. They are going to be in there shopping for someone, so would they rather I be in the aisle with them while they are working, or that I stay home, and they can do contactless delivery? 

Also, the fact is, some people absolutely need that paycheck. It's a place they can work when everything or anything else is shut down. 

A middle of the road option would be curbside pick up, done by store workers that are there anyway. 

28 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

I

I've been tipping really, REALLY well - the main ethical issue I'm concerned about is working conditions and pay, and the only thing I can really fix about that is my tipping habits.

This. I'm tipping much more. It's actually hitting our budget hard, especially with DH on a partial furlough. 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Should I cross Tulsa off our future places to live list?? 😂

Sorry, don't mean to be flippant, but this is kind of not the news I want while dh is job hunting and we're looking at a move.

I would not let this nonsense stop you....it is really a fairly nice area to live in.  Just a lot going on right now between the Rally and the protests....but protests are everywhere it seems.

 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Even not during a pandemic. There's a reason people come home from Comic-con etc. sniffly and cruddy. (If only more people incorporated masks into their cosplay, or especially their not-cosplay...!)

Scarlett, I don't love this option because there are ethical issues there as well, but can you get your groceries delivered?

I do grocery pick up.  5 minutes from my house.  I am comfortable with that.  I do have to go in some stores maybe once a week.  

[medawyn]

Ugh.  I'm so worried about my hometown this weekend.  So many possible negative outcomes and so few positive ones, although I'll hope for the best.  My brother and I are taking it in turns to nicely remind our parents to stock up and STAY HOME for the next few weeks.

[Lady Florida.]

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/curfew-now-in-place-in-area-around-tulsas-bok-center/article_711ed27d-0eb9-50d8-80c5-f4e71f04647e.html  Whoa, did y'all see this? They imposed a curfew and are pulling out all the people who are camped there. 

 

4 hours ago, MEmama said:

Smart move.

The curfew was lifted this afternoon in order to accommodate fools.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/curfew-no-longer-in-place-in-area-around-tulsas-bok-center/article_711ed27d-0eb9-50d8-80c5-f4e71f04647e.html

[Bocky]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

Ok, here's the thing. I suggested it's *possible* that Trump is sort of ahead of the curve here, that this is reasonable and fine and going to be fine. So a parallel example to me would be church. Our state has had some churches meeting all along with no outbreaks (at least not that I've seen in the news or heard of locally) and now ALL churches have been meeting for 3-5 weeks. Ours was later than many, and we're not hearing of any outbreaks even with scattered mask usage and singing.

So you've got a big venue, clapping instead of singing, lots of air flow and volume of air. It *could* be that Trump is just forward on this and it turns out way better than what people fear. Our church data seems to imply that. It would be a nice thought. Not saying it will happen that way, but it *could*. It would be a non doomsday potential outcome. We could all wish for that.

Re: church outbreaks - local paper report on an Eastern Oregon outbreak associated with a church La Grande Observer. I wonder if we are not hearing of more outbreaks like this because most asymptomatic/presymptomatic people are not being tested.

[Scarlett]

A friend of mine just tested positive today.  She asymptomatic but 6 of her work mates tested positive so that is why she tested.  It is a real deal, I can tell you that for sure. 

 

And my friend who is very sick with 2 different types of psoriatic arthritis which has affected her heart...she has symptoms and got tested today. 

[ktgrok]

34 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

A friend of mine just tested positive today.  She asymptomatic but 6 of her work mates tested positive so that is why she tested.  It is a real deal, I can tell you that for sure. 

 

And my friend who is very sick with 2 different types of psoriatic arthritis which has affected her heart...she has symptoms and got tested today. 

oh goodness. Im so sorry. If she is positive, do push her to contact both her rheumatologist and her cardiologist and make them aware, directly, and ask for advice. too often the GP folks treating this don't realize the added implications, even if they say they do, of complex medical issues that could be impacted. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Deleted by Moderator

 

 

Also deleted by Moderator

 

[Guest]

Quote

We're excited we're being recognized as one of the first states to safely and measurably reopen," Stitt told reporters Monday. "I'm looking for a potential other venue that maybe we could move it outside. It's still kind of in the works."

The Governor is delusional. Makes sense now. 

[ktgrok]

I still cannot believe they didnt do this at an outdoor venue. 

[Frances]

5 hours ago, Quill said:

Also deleted by Moderator

 

I’m actually most concerned about those who might get sick from people who catch it at the rally. No one has to attend a large indoor rally during a pandemic. They are making a choice. But the people they come into contact with in the next few weeks did not make that choice, and they may suffer the consequences.

[Guest]

What really bothers me is that this seems like the perfect example of an event that could be virtual. I mean, it is likely that it will be televised anyway, right? You can sing, yell, chant, etc from your living room, pick up live tweets and put them across the bottom of the screen, even talk to supporters via something like Zoom. Maybe even have smaller get togethers, with social distancing, run by the local Republican parties. Like in football or baseball stadiums.  You could really have a million people tune in, or more.  

[Matryoshka]

6 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

What really bothers me is that this seems like the perfect example of an event that could be virtual. I mean, it is likely that it will be televised anyway, right? You can sing, yell, chant, etc from your living room, pick up live tweets and put them across the bottom of the screen, even talk to supporters via something like Zoom. Maybe even have smaller get togethers, with social distancing, run by the local Republican parties. Like in football or baseball stadiums.  You could really have a million people tune in, or more.  

I've heard there are people who had bought RVs to go around from one rally to the next, like the Grateful Dead.  So, I'm guessing those types are sold on the stadium experience...

[Scarlett]

The Mayor just called off the curfew.  He says at the request of the Secret Service. 

[Frances]

10 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

What really bothers me is that this seems like the perfect example of an event that could be virtual. I mean, it is likely that it will be televised anyway, right? You can sing, yell, chant, etc from your living room, pick up live tweets and put them across the bottom of the screen, even talk to supporters via something like Zoom. Maybe even have smaller get togethers, with social distancing, run by the local Republican parties. Like in football or baseball stadiums.  You could really have a million people tune in, or more.  

Unfortunately, I don’t think this would provide enough ego stroking for the speaker. 

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, Frances said:

I’m actually most concerned about those who might get sick from people who catch it at the rally. No one has to attend a large indoor rally during a pandemic. They are making a choice. But the people they come into contact with in the next few weeks did not make that choice, and they may suffer the consequences.

This. The people they go to work with next week - they didn't ask for this. Those attending say it is their choice to take the risk, but then they should isolate for two weeks afterward, as those they come in contact with did NOT get a choice. 

[chiguirre]

7 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I've heard there are people who had bought RVs to go around from one rally to the next, like the Grateful Dead.  So, I'm guessing those types are sold on the stadium experience...

I hope this doesn't become ironic...

[bolt.]

12 minutes ago, kand said:

🧐 am I missing something? Wouldn’t a curfew make things safer and not less so?

Curfews are mixed.

They often provide "something to enforce" which can increase the potential for conflict -- like everybody knows there's either going to be nothing, or there's going to be a fight. Nobody is feeling like, "We're just doing a peaceful thing unless we are pushed." A place without a curfew, if there is a gathering for protest, it might just be that: a protest. A place with a curfew, any protest is automatically considered trouble to be suppressed. (Therefore, if authorities feel that a curfew is really actually unlikely to keep people actually home, it's the wrong tool.)

[KungFuPanda]

26 minutes ago, Frances said:

Unfortunately, I don’t think this would provide enough ego stroking for the speaker. 

He needs the boost before Tuesday. I predict he’ll be pouting in his room all day reading Bolton’s book and live tweeting his outrage. 

 

[Terabith]

So, I hadn't heard about a rally in Arizona.  I went to his campaign website, and I don't see it listed.  I saw an article in the Washington Post where he talked about having a rally in Arizona "sometime," (and also Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina), but I can't find a listing of any actually scheduled beyond Tulsa.  Am I missing something?

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, Bocky said:

Re: church outbreaks - local paper report on an Eastern Oregon outbreak associated with a church La Grande Observer. I wonder if we are not hearing of more outbreaks like this because most asymptomatic/presymptomatic people are not being tested.

I don't know if anyone noticed it, but this church having the spread is *pentacostal*. So if you look at the pictures, they're very literally HANDS ON during their services. I know some other holiness movement churches do this too, but this is not necessarily a widespread thing across other denominations. So I think their issue may be happening because of what they're doing in their services. None of the churches I know of are doing that.