How can I explain this to my 13-year old? (humor and race)

[Teaching3bears]

How can I explain to my 13-year old why it's okay for a black comedian to make jokes about black people but not for a white person to make jokes about black people?  Any words, clear videos, web sites to help explain this?

[Scarlett]

Well I don’t actually agree with that but whatever.  

[Tap]

I actually don't agree that this is correct, but I understand that it is often considered socially acceptable. I don't think it is correct to teach someone that race/gender/ethnicity related jokes are ok to laugh at .....even sometimes. If you are part of the target group, maybe it is ok because you can relate to the joke. But if you are not part of the target group, I think it is still laughing at the target group which is wrong in my opinion. 

[ktgrok]

Ask him if he has ever called himself clumsy, and grinned about it? And then ask how he'd feel if a stranger called him clumsy? Would it possibly be less funny, and more hurtful, from a stranger than when he is saying it about himself?

 

[Teaching3bears]

37 minutes ago, Tap said:

I actually don't agree that this is correct, but I understand that it is often considered socially acceptable. I don't think it is correct to teach someone that race/gender/ethnicity related jokes are ok to laugh at .....even sometimes. If you are part of the target group, maybe it is ok because you can relate to the joke. But if you are not part of the target group, I think it is still laughing at the target group which is wrong in my opinion. 

I agree with this in a way but comedians very often make jokes about their own ethnic backgrounds.  This might be a big source of their material.  If we don't watch their shows we are not supporting them.  They don't want to be ignored.  I'm not sure I phrased this correctly.  Also, not all these jokes are put-down jokes but some point out diversity and celebrate it, in a sense.

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

How can I explain to my 13-year old why it's okay for a black comedian to make jokes about black people but not for a white person to make jokes about black people?  Any words, clear videos, web sites to help explain this?

You don't need videos or websites to explain it. The rule of thumb is that people can make jokes about their own group, whatever that group is, but not someone else's. I don't know that it can be *explained;* he just has to know that it is so. We can't explain how everything came to be.

[klmama]

It's much the same as a "no one picks on my brother but me" attitude.  Your brother may spend all his free time harassing you, but let anyone outside the family pick on you and he goes ballistic and tackles the guy.  (I'm not saying brothers should pick on each other or that they should hurt others who do.  Just thinking it might help this make sense to a young teen with brothers....)  

[Tanaqui]

Jokes can be a way of affirming in-group status. If you're making a joke about your own group, everybody in your group gets the joke and laughs and feels more affirmed as a group. (Though you should always tread carefully here anyway.)

If you make a joke about another group, then you aren't really bringing people closer together - you're carefully saying "Hey, I'm not part of THAT stupid group, am I?" The only people who will laugh are people you don't want to associate with in the first place - and anybody with a minimum standard of decency is going to avoid you because you've made it clear that your concept of group identity involves denigrating other people. You're paying a high social cost for a few cheap laughs - and an even higher cost, faster, if you manage to offend somebody who is part of the group you were mocking, or who has a close friend or family member in that group.

[Carrie12345]

I agree it’s similar to family teasing, but sometimes with different nuance. When we homeschoolers make jokes about homeschoolers, they’re often based in the stupid or awful stuff we hear in the world, right?  Gotta let the kids out of the basement. Accidentally socialized today. Kid did a silly thing? Eh, he’s homeschooled. Personally, when my kids have brain farts while doing something simple, I ask “Who the heck taught you to _____?!? (Me, of course.)

I’ve never thought much about why we do that, but theorizing off the top of my head... we know all that crud is irrelevant noise, but we also know it IS how may people see us. Maybe that’s how we diffuse some of our anger/offense. And sometimes it’s just funny!

There are comedians who joke about their race/culture/gender/disability/etc. and weave it into some poignant sets. There are also comedians, like Chris Rock, who reevaluate material based on reactions and recognizing when it isn’t getting the intended or expected result. They’re just as human as the rest of us.

(Says someone who rarely has a joke land well.)

[mlktwins]

NM

Edited June 18, 2020 by mlktwins

[ktgrok]

It is the difference between laughing at yourself, and someone else laughing at you. That feels different. 

Also, even poking fun at oneself or one's group can go to far, and be negative - it isn't cart blanche to make fun of yourself in my opinion. There is silly stuff, and there is tearing oneself down, and those are different things. 

If I joke about how I'm known for tripping over my own feet, it's true, it's not something I'm bothered by, and fine. If I start saying how terrible I am, in a way that shows I'm unhappy with who I am....that's a different thing. I realize a LOT of comedy is based on that, but personally I no longer listen/watch it. It's a religious thing for me - we are called to love others as ourselves, not love others instead of ourselves. Beating ourselves up isn't healthy, and doing it publicly is probably even less healthy. Anyone has a right to do it, but I won't watch. And example is Jim Gaffigan. Some of his stuff is hysterical and wholesome. His bit about having a fourth child is hysterical. But when he spends 10 minutes making fun of himself for being fat and lazy? I'm turning it off. 

Same goes for race, religion, etc.