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Appropriate language for diverse cultures

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sorry, testing something

 

Edited by katilac

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1 hour ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

I find BAME to be very insulting. I'd rather be called people of color. And I think British Chinese sounds very wrong, as if they were still Chinese citizens. I would prefer Chinese American because this shows I am American citizen with Chinese blood. The order matters. I would picture a British Chinese to be a naturalized Chinese citizen with British heritage. 

I'm sorry you find BAME insulting; I didn't mean to hurt.

I'm puzzled by British Chinese as a term too. I checked before writing that I was correct that that was the normal usage. I would also expect it to be the other way round.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chinese

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15 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I'm sorry you find BAME insulting; I didn't mean to hurt.

I'm puzzled by British Chinese as a term too. I checked before writing that I was correct that that was the normal usage. I would also expect it to be the other way round.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chinese

It's my personal opinion. Maybe British BAME accept it just fine. 

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2 hours ago, Jaybee said:

It may be more of a regional difference, or... like I said, I may be wrong...

Negro Spiritual is still used, and is not generally considered offensive.  I'm in a very liberal area.  We have an acquaintance who travels extensively and sings in churches - in different states, different countries (europe), various denominations.  He likes the messages in Negro Spirituals, and will often share some history of the hymn prior to singing it.  He has also sung them in historically Black Churches in the South where he was invited to sing.  

niger/nyger are both used in botatnical names.  .e.g. helleborus niger,.    niger/nyger seed is supposedly beloved by goldfinches - but the ones near me didn't get the memo.  (the house finches like it though.)

2 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

In my native country, it is a remnant of colonization I think in the context of church because I have only heard it used that way. In broader terms, we had students from African countries who came to study all the time and they were referred to as students from Nigeria or Ethiopia or wherever else in Africa they were from like students from other countries like Bahrain or Malaysia were referred to.  

africa is a continent, the rest are actual countries and more specific locations.  It would make sense to use the name of their country of origin rather than the continent.

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A relative once berated me for using the term “Hispanic”, claiming that it is a racist dog whistle and the proper term is “Latinx”.   (She lives in a super woke area, and loves to tell others why things like this mean they are actually bigots). 

Um, my husband and children are Hispanic (and not Latino)—but apparently they don’t count.  Because they don’t look Hispanic to her.

 

Just calling people whatever they call themselves and generally trying to be considerate seems to be the way to go.

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3 hours ago, Michelle Conde said:

A relative once berated me for using the term “Hispanic”, claiming that it is a racist dog whistle and the proper term is “Latinx”.   (She lives in a super woke area, and loves to tell others why things like this mean they are actually bigots). 

Um, my husband and children are Hispanic (and not Latino)—but apparently they don’t count.  Because they don’t look Hispanic to her.

 

Just calling people whatever they call themselves and generally trying to be considerate seems to be the way to go.

I'm learning spanish (the goal is minimum conversant.  preferably fluent). 

I came across one site (joanna rants - language warning) by a venezuelan - ranting about her pet peeves.  this is one of them.  and no - people dont' believe she is venezualen because she is fair, has red hair, and is jewish. (and speaks perfect unaccented american english)    but she's also funny.  in the comment thread someone posted about "tbeing asian from south america".

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22 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

The "confused" part is more this and to do with how "Desi" these kids are

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-Born_Confused_Desi

I am sorry about the socialization of your kids. Many in our circle are like that too, but DH and I would like our kids to be exposed to more diversity so we picked a neighborhood like that and fortunately my son's friends are very much from many ethnicities. His best friend is Hispanic. My daughter is too small to have any friends. 

 

Well, yes. The confused part applies in the same sense to each of my kids’s identities also.

They are Spanish, but how Spanish are they? They are Sri Lankan, but how Sri Lankan are they? Then we have the intersection of British identity for my English born kid. She is British, but to what degree when she left at age three? My youngest is American born, and both are growing up in the USA, how does that play in all this?

How all these parts of themselves interconnect gets complicated due to the lack of peers with whom to relate. They do share commonalities with other Desi kids, and are friendly and friends with some of them. My youngest keeps dancing kathak in part because she has a group of friends there that are important to her. It’s just that they don’t fit in completely because we are not your typical Desi family. They do share some commonalities with Mexican kids, and are friendly and friends with some, but again they don’t fit in completely for the same reasons.

We do live in a diverse neighborhood, and they have friends of many varieties. We value those friendships. All of that doesn’t make up for the feeling that there is no one like them. Hence the emphasis on confused, because for them, it’s just complicated.

ETA It doesn’t mean my kids don’t live happy fulfilled lives. They do. The just would like to meet someone with the same cultural background to crack jokes about starting the new year both with chocolate con churros and chicken curry and kiribath. 😊 

Edited by Mabelen
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3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I'm learning spanish (the goal is minimum conversant.  preferably fluent). 

I'm trying to learn also! What are you using? I have Learning Spanish from The Great Courses, which has a guide/workbook, and I'm planning on Duolingo from the library. I'm going to watch some TV in Spanish with dd1 (who is fairly fluent, but I will need subtitles, lol). I think the Easy Spanish channel on youtube looks promising; they do street interviews so you can hear how people actually use the language, and the subtitles are in both English and Spanish. They do some actual teaching videos also. 

 

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6 hours ago, Mabelen said:

 

Well, yes. The confused part applies in the same sense to each of my kids’s identities also.

They are Spanish, but how Spanish are they? They are Sri Lankan, but how Sri Lankan are they? Then we have the intersection of British identity for my English born kid. She is British, but to what degree when she left at age three? My youngest is American born, and both are growing up in the USA, how does that play in all this?

How all these parts of themselves interconnect gets complicated due to the lack of peers with whom to relate. They do share commonalities with other Desi kids, and are friendly and friends with some of them. My youngest keeps dancing kathak in part because she has a group of friends there that are important to her. It’s just that they don’t fit in completely because we are not your typical Desi family. They do share some commonalities with Mexican kids, and are friendly and friends with some, but again they don’t fit in completely for the same reasons.

We do live in a diverse neighborhood, and they have friends of many varieties. We value those friendships. All of that doesn’t make up for the feeling that there is no one like them. Hence the emphasis on confused, because for them, it’s just complicated.

ETA It doesn’t mean my kids don’t live happy fulfilled lives. They do. The just would like to meet someone with the same cultural background to crack jokes about starting the new year both with chocolate con churros and chicken curry and kiribath. 😊 

Your children like mine are a wonderful amalgamation of multiple worlds they move in. My son's best friend is Hispanic and he speaks Spanish at home quite well because their family speaks it at home. We speak our language at home. My son and his friend who are actually our neighbors speak in this weird mix of English, Spanish and our language. They effortlessly picked up each other's language because they have hung out together so much since they were small. They can use three different languages in a sentence effortlessly as they talk between them, switch to only Spanish, speak Spanglish or speak English or our language in a sentence depending on who they are talking with. They were not "immersed" into any culture deliberately but picked up because they are friends  But I marvel at how their brains does it so effortlessly because I had more reading and writing knowledge than speaking because I was taught 3 languages at school. They will fit anywhere I think because they see the world differently than I did as a child. We made a deliberate decision not to have friends only from our ethnicity and that has paid off for us. 

I always cook a lot of food of different cultures too so perhaps they will find their friends as they grow up because food for me is a powerful way of connecting across cultures. Your kids sound lovely and I think they will fit in just fine anywhere. 

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I instantly tend to hit it off with other Third Culture Kids no matter what three cultures they have (their home culture, adopted culture and the third mashed together culture).  There is something about that Third Cultural flexibility and ability to communicate across cultural boundaries that transcends specific cultures. 

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3 hours ago, katilac said:

I'm trying to learn also! What are you using? I have Learning Spanish from The Great Courses, which has a guide/workbook, and I'm planning on Duolingo from the library. I'm going to watch some TV in Spanish with dd1 (who is fairly fluent, but I will need subtitles, lol). I think the Easy Spanish channel on youtube looks promising; they do street interviews so you can hear how people actually use the language, and the subtitles are in both English and Spanish. They do some actual teaching videos also. 

 

I'm working with duolingo - which is helping for reading. (I also spend some time reading a few verses from the scriptures in spanish along side them in english.  this is in additon to my regular daily scripture study.)  it does have some pronunciation (when you hover over a word.), and I made sit my cursor back and forth over the same word while saying the correct pronunciation out loud.  but not for all pages.

I'm starting with a native language tutor on monday.   (it has to be native, they don't have any degree of english accent while speaking spanish - and they wont' be looking up words on the internet.)  I found Jeff Brown - poly-glot-a-lot on youtube.  He's a spanish professor, and speaks seven langauges.  (inc. mandarin, japanese, and arabic - he's learning korean.)  I've gone through and tried to extract his suggestions.   The video was made over the course of year when he was learning arabic.   He promotes teaching language the way a parent teaches a child. so you "acquire" it rather than learn it.  He doesn't teach his introductory studentse grammar. it's just confusing.  He's a strong proponent of language exchanges.  He gets his language partners from ESL classes - they spent 30 minutes teaching him their langauge, and he spends 30 minutes teaching them english.

he uses a lot of motions to teach words - and everything is in the langauge being taught.  e.g. walking - let your fingers do the walking, flying - flap your arms like a bird.  i've implemented some on my own - visualizing what the word is to get it into my head.  e.g. manejar - make motions like a steering wheel going back and forth.

I've gone through and made a word doc of many of his suggestions.  let me know if you'd like me to send it to you.

and no - he didn't "originate" this method. I've seen a lot of videos by polyglots who dont' like a lot of the lang apps - including duolingo.

I also liked: spanish playground, and  why not spanish.   

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