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Just now, maize said:

So, in retrospect, do you recognize that you shouldn't have played her game?

Recognizing you fell into a trap is a step towards planning how to avoid falling into similar traps in the future.

I have no need to play a game period.  I live my life very straightforward.  I actually lived for 26 years playing grey rock or at least learning how to.....I didn’t volunteer any number of things that I knew she would torture my xh with....that DIL is  not  ‘White’  for starters.....so I certainly was not intentionally trying to cause any trouble....but I draw the line at a question that has no good answer without giving her info.  

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Scarlet I have to ask... despite being a nice gesture, didn’t it occur to you that sending her a card would be a little bit like kicking a snake?  

Well, I'm trying the buoy approach. Another 27 packs of cookies ought to do the trick, yes? I'll let you know how it works out. For science!

You don't have to answer at all. She didn't need the info. You didn't need to give info. Letting people be wrong is a useful skill. If she thought he was living with someone unmarried t

26 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Scratching  my head here......I am his mother....why isn’t it ‘my place’?  And actually I didn’t mention it.....except when she said as if fact that they were living together.  A wedding is a matter of public record.  Why would it ever need to be a secret?  Especially when basically d9rectly asked?

I actually was surprised to find out recently that marriage records are not generally accessible to the public in my state until 50 years after the event. Just an interesting aside.

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I think what is bothering some of us is not so much that you said the thing--I'm sure many of us have failed to think something through when faced with a surprise question--but that you keep justifying it as not a big deal. In spite of the fact that your ex at least is upset and you gave his mother ammunition to fire at him.

Do you think he is wrong to be upset?

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I don't think you had to tell her that they were married.  The woman he is living with is his wife, so he presumably likes her.  

"Do you like the woman he is living with?"

"He likes her and he's happy, so I'm happy for him"

I do think it's weird the she didn't already know but that weirdness would be my clue that they intentionally weren't telling her.  

That said, I can see accidentally telling her.  Things happen, you shouldn't feel badly about it.  If it's caused them stress, an apology can't hurt, can it?  

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Just now, Frances said:

I actually was surprised to find out recently that marriage records are not generally accessible to the public in my state until 50 years after the event. Just an interesting aside.

Really? What state is that? They are most definitely public in my current state, former state and MIL s state. 

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I have no need to play a game period.  I live my life very straightforward.  I actually lived for 26 years playing grey rock or at least learning how to.....I didn’t volunteer any number of things that I knew she would torture my xh with....that DIL is  not  ‘White’  for starters.....so I certainly was not intentionally trying to cause any trouble....but I draw the line at a question that has no good answer without giving her info.  

You don't have to answer at all.

She didn't need the info.

You didn't need to give info.

Letting people be wrong is a useful skill. If she thought he was living with someone unmarried that was no skin off your back 

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1 minute ago, maize said:

I think what is bothering some of us is not so much that you said the thing--I'm sure many of us have failed to think something through when faced with a surprise question--but that you keep justifying it as not a big deal. In spite of the fact that your ex at least is upset and you gave his mother ammunition to fire at him.

Do you think he is wrong to be upset?

Well....not really. It just is what it is.  I just wish he would stop living that way but whatever.  

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6 minutes ago, Frances said:

I actually was surprised to find out recently that marriage records are not generally accessible to the public in my state until 50 years after the event. Just an interesting aside.

Ha!

We eloped.  We were not planning on sharing the information for a bit.  Made the mistake of doing it in the same county my husband's grandmother lives in.  GUESS WHO READS THE LIST OF MARRIAGE LICENSES IN SOME NEVER LOOKED AT CORNER OF THE NEWSPAPER?  And as we both had EXCEEDINGLY RARE family names, there was no hope of being like "well, there are other people named Katie and Josh on the planet".  🤣

Edited by LucyStoner
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I have no idea whether marriage records are immediately available or not in my state. 

Seems marriage and divorce records should both be available since people aren't allowed to get married if they are already married to someone else?

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21 minutes ago, maize said:

He didn't tell his grandmother he was getting married. Nor did he inform her of the marriage after the fact. That counts as intentionally keeping it from her.

Cause if he had wanted her to know he would have told her.

I had a relative who loved to dig.  She badgered another family member about my first pregnancy.  I hadn't told anyone yet - but when I found out about the badgering - I refused to make any announcement to this relative.  as far as I was concerned, she already knew  - telling her would be redundant.

and it sounds like his grandmother was fishing for information, and Scarlett, it sounds like your son is weary of her fishing for information about him.  She's asking you, instead of her own son, and instead of her grandson - who the information more directly affects.

and just how did she find out he was living with a woman?  

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Really? What state is that? They are most definitely public in my current state, former state and MIL s state. 

 

NY is really tight about records. I tried to get some records confirming dates of my parents marriage and divorce, and NY state would not give them to me. I have to wait until 50 years after the event OR both of my parents are dead. 

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9 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

NY is really tight about records. I tried to get some records confirming dates of my parents marriage and divorce, and NY state would not give them to me. I have to wait until 50 years after the event OR both of my parents are dead. 

I think nebraska is similar.  (may be off on the state) I was trying to help someone with genealogy.  they didn't care all the people were dead, or that it was a son/grandson that wanted the record.

there are places were id thieves will find children's death records, then get the birth certificate and assume the identity.  I would imagine that's one reason there are states that won't give up birth records anymore.  I've seen other areas where records have been accessible, then retracted.

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It doesn’t sound to me like the worst thing to happen with a toxic relative, ex or otherwise. But I would consider myself a sucker and offer a basic “I’m sorry. I didn’t think something like this would happen, but clearly I got suckered.”

Says someone who recently got suckered by an ex. (Well, I’m still married, but I divorced the rest of the family. 😆) It does hurt dh when I inadvertently get entangled. Not because I did something awful, but because it drags things up from the buried muck that are hard for him.

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1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

It doesn’t sound to me like the worst thing to happen with a toxic relative, ex or otherwise. But I would consider myself a sucker and offer a basic “I’m sorry. I didn’t think something like this would happen, but clearly I got suckered.”

Says someone who recently got suckered by an ex. (Well, I’m still married, but I divorced the rest of the family. 😆) It does hurt dh when I inadvertently get entangled. Not because I did something awful, but because it drags things up from the buried muck that are hard for him.

Yes that is what it did for Xh.  He could have mentioned to me he has not told her especially when he asked her if she got my card which he knew would trigger calling me.  And I did tell him I was sorry it caused him grief.  

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8 hours ago, Scarlett said:

No my son did not go to any trouble to keep anything from her.   I wasnt mucking with anything.  How would you have answered, ‘do you like that girl he is living with?’  That is sort of like ‘ do you still beat you wife?’  I guess sight is 20/20 and all that......

What? I don't really understand how asking about two young people living together is like asking about domestic violence. Totally not even on the same plane in my opinion as a survivor of DV.

But how do you not see that she was baiting you with that question? She's not a poor, lonely old woman. She sounds manipulative and evil. If she is as manipulative as everyone says, she was totally baiting you to get a reaction out  of you with asking you about the girl your son was living with and you took the bait hook, line and sinker which gave her the desired soapbox to go off the deep end about not being invited to the wedding and that just started a domino effect. She set up the whole conversation and depended on you to be the catalyst to set her whole crazy tirade so she could go off on her son, your xh, and blame you for it. She set you up and you fell for it. Or as my husband put it, she set out the dog shit and you stepped in it then dragged it around the house trying to get it off.

As to how I would have answered that question, "Oh yes, she's lovely. Would you look at the time? Sorry, I have to go. Good night, xmil." Click.

You can totally have some of my toxic people in my life too if you need some practice not answering the phone. Unfamiliar numbers are what voice mail was made for IMO. Just because someone wants to talk to me doesn't mean I'm always available to talk, they can leave a message if it is important and if it's not important enough to leave a message, then it obviously wasn't important enough for me to answer either.

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Y'all... just because Scarlett's xmil is a narcissist doesn't mean that Scarlett is required to play her game.  You're being a little hard on her.  She behaved like a normal human having normal conversation with a weird, unexpected question.  

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8 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I have barely spoken to my son in a year.  But regardless I don’t consider  anything I did or said with xMIL to be a boundary violation.  You are free to disagree.  

Then this wedding was the one you boycotted? If so it’s no wonder your xmil was itching to talk to you about it. 

No one is trying to be mean, Scarlet, but we are trying to help you see that this was completely  avoidable, and to clue you in on how your actions, even if intended kindly, actually provoked it. 

Rosie is right, it IS a pattern. 

We are just trying to clue you in. Same as when you tell a friend (or even stranger) that his trousers are unzipped. Or hand someone a Kleenex because they have a booger. 

Edited by Seasider too
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9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

@Slache had a post that reminded me of the nonsense I went through this weekend.  

My son got married in September.  He is not close to his paternal grandmother.  For whatever reason my xh chose to not tell his 90 year old mom that our son got married.  I literally  have no idea why and I don’t care.  Probably because she would demand to see pics and then be all judge.  That is her pattern.  
 

So recently  I have been feeling nostalgic and bad for XMIL...she is old, alone, has no friends...there is a pandemic going on,  so I sent her a card.  Hi, how are you, hope you are being safe.  We are fine, got a new dog.  Basically that is it.,

She calls me.  Three sentences in, she asks me how my son is.  I said, he is fine.  She says, How do you like the girl he is living with?  Now, I know she is manipulative and crazy town, and it didn’t make sense her saying that....but I really felt there was no way for me to answer that question except to say he is married not ‘living with’ his girlfriend.  She was outraged...’what! Did <her son> go to the wedding? Why didn't he tell me? ‘. I said I have no idea.  Got off the phone quickly.  Called xh immediately to warn him...while we were talking she was calling.....he was angry at me.....I don’t care.....he brought this crap on himself......I warned my son she might call him, and called it a night. 
 

So times it is crystal clear how good it is to be out of certain families.  

Here is the thing, my MIL is evil. We would put up boundaries and stay away and then eventually, feel sorry for her and let her back in and the damage got worse. I finally had to go to counseling. I had to learn that it is okay to have self preservation and it is actually wrong to not. It is especially wrong to try to keep others from having reasonable boundaries. You took that from your son and exdh when you told XMIL. I get it though, I slipped recently too. But you need to ask yourself why you felt more obligated to XMIL than you did to XDH and your son. Because when you word it that way, it becomes very clear what you did. (generally, the answer is usually that you would rather have XDH or son mad at you because they will forgive you but you are still holding out for some sort of acceptance from XMIL).

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Knowing that she's toxic, the supportive thing for you to do as a parent is to let your son handle his relationship with her as he sees fit. No more researching her family tree or reaching out to her, because it ends up involving him. Even if this was not your intention, it ends up interfering in his choices as to how he manages the relationship.

He not only has the right to manage his contact (or lack thereof) with her as he sees fit, but it's also likely necessary for his development to set boundaries with a relative who is toxic. I think he'd be helped in this developmental task by seeing you be scrupulous about respecting boundaries, even when he hasn't seen that example set on the other side of the family. 

Edited by Acadie
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50 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

What? I don't really understand how asking about two young people living together is like asking about domestic violence. Totally not even on the same plane in my opinion as a survivor of DV.

But how do you not see that she was baiting you with that question? She's not a poor, lonely old woman. She sounds manipulative and evil. If she is as manipulative as everyone says, she was totally baiting you to get a reaction out  of you with asking you about the girl your son was living with and you took the bait hook, line and sinker which gave her the desired soapbox to go off the deep end about not being invited to the wedding and that just started a domino effect. She set up the whole conversation and depended on you to be the catalyst to set her whole crazy tirade so she could go off on her son, your xh, and blame you for it. She set you up and you fell for it. Or as my husband put it, she set out the dog shit and you stepped in it then dragged it around the house trying to get it off.

As to how I would have answered that question, "Oh yes, she's lovely. Would you look at the time? Sorry, I have to go. Good night, xmil." Click.

You can totally have some of my toxic people in my life too if you need some practice not answering the phone. Unfamiliar numbers are what voice mail was made for IMO. Just because someone wants to talk to me doesn't mean I'm always available to talk, they can leave a message if it is important and if it's not important enough to leave a message, then it obviously wasn't important enough for me to answer either.

Good grief, the bolded is because both questions are designed to have no appropriate answer.  To say ‘oh she is lovely’, would not have worked either.  Even if I had then hung up immediately, She would have then called xh and ragged on him about our son living with a girl.  So I choose to live my life authentic and up front.  I really will not apologize for doing that.  She might not have left a 90 year trail of pain if people had refused to play these games years ago. And honestly it may have required cutting her out if their lives completely.  But we will never know now because people have tip toed around her crazy her entire life.  I am not going to.  
 

I figure she doesn’t have long to live.  She is stuck in her house and only sees her helpers day in and day out.....I thought a card in the mail might be nice.  I sent cards to my parents and my best friend too.  If she wants to use my kind gesture to stir up crap that is one her, not me.  

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8 hours ago, Slache said:

This is why I asked about grey rock. I would have said she's fine.

 

8 hours ago, maize said:

You don't have to answer at all.

She didn't need the info.

You didn't need to give info.

Letting people be wrong is a useful skill. If she thought he was living with someone unmarried that was no skin off your back 

To be fair, living together while unmarried is a big deal to Scarlett and her church. Letting someone think that might mean nothing to many of us, but that is not the case for her. I actually think it would be a fairly big deal to her son and his wife, or at least would have been at some point. 

And knowing that her ex asked his mom about getting the card? He brought this upon himself, lol. He knows his mom and he knows Scarlett; my guess is that he (perhaps subconsciously) wanted to get the confrontation about the wedding over with, but couldn't make himself tell his mom. 

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40 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Then this wedding was the one you boycotted? If so it’s no wonder your xmil was itching to talk to you about it. 

No one is trying to be mean, Scarlet, but we are trying to help you see that this was completely  avoidable, and to clue you in on how your actions, even if intended kindly, actually provoked it. 

Rosie is right, it IS a pattern. 

We are just trying to clue you in. Same as when you tell a friend (or even stranger) that his trousers are unzipped. Or hand someone a Kleenex because they have a booger. 

That makes no sense.  She didn’t know about a wedding much less who attended.  

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13 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Knowing that she's toxic, the supportive thing for you to do as a parent is to let your son handle his relationship with her as he sees fit. No more researching her family tree or reaching out to her, because it ends up involving him. Even if this was not your intention, it ends up interfering in his choices as to how he manages the relationship.

He not only has the right to manage his contact (or lack thereof) with her as he sees fit, but it's also likely necessary for his development to set boundaries with a relative who is toxic. I think he'd be helped in this developmental task by seeing you be scrupulous about respecting boundaries, even when he hasn't seen that example set on the other side of the family. 

My son was the first of them to get his dna done.  He asked me to help him with it.  It lead down a rabbit trail and eventually xh got his dna done and asked me to handle it all.  And then when I was getting really close he had his mom do the test and he asked me to handle it all.  I am not doing anything my son or my xh don’t want me to.  My son could literally care less what his grandmother knows or doesn’t know or what she thinks about anything.  
 

I have a very very long history with her completely separate from my son.  How I deal with her is my business.  She is not right in the head, maybe she is evil, I can’t say that for sure, but I still want to be kind to her for myself.  

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36 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Here is the thing, my MIL is evil. We would put up boundaries and stay away and then eventually, feel sorry for her and let her back in and the damage got worse. I finally had to go to counseling. I had to learn that it is okay to have self preservation and it is actually wrong to not. It is especially wrong to try to keep others from having reasonable boundaries. You took that from your son and exdh when you told XMIL. I get it though, I slipped recently too. But you need to ask yourself why you felt more obligated to XMIL than you did to XDH and your son. Because when you word it that way, it becomes very clear what you did. (generally, the answer is usually that you would rather have XDH or son mad at you because they will forgive you but you are still holding out for some sort of acceptance from XMIL).

 Nothing in this post is even remotely  how I feel or how any of it is.  I don’t hold out hope for acceptance from xMIL. I want to be kind to an old lady who has no one in her life.  

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That makes no sense.  She didn’t know about a wedding much less who attended.  

Just pointing out that if a person has a track record such that s/he is labeled “toxic,” you cannot trust anything they claim to intend, know, or not know. 

Also remembering that though you didn’t point it out in the current post, there are/were circumstances (if this is the wedding you skipped) that make news/gossip around the event something that a “toxic” person might be more likely to stir up “questions” about. Another set of warning bells against initiating any engagement with said toxic person. 

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And btw, I will answer my phone always unless I am busy or dont hear it.  It is the way I live my life.  I have too many calls from doctors for Dh and they rarely have an actual caller ID.  And I do a lot of genealogy work and I don’t want to miss a call from any of them....many who only do the phone, no text or email and who are old so I sure don’t want to miss their call.  

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1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

Just pointing out that if a person has a track record such that s/he is labeled “toxic,” you cannot trust anything they claim to intend, know, or not know. 

Also remembering that though you didn’t point it out in the current post, there are/were circumstances (if this is the wedding you skipped) that make news/gossip around the event something that a “toxic” person might be more likely to stir up “questions” about. Another set of warning bells against initiating any engagement with said toxic person. 

She didn’t know.  I can tell by her reaction. And she is no where in the realm of our world at all.  And if she did know she would have already been harassing xh, not waiting to talk to me a year later.  

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44 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

To say ‘oh she is lovely’, would not have worked either.

What you actually think doesn't matter. As you said, the question doesn't deserve an answer, so a non-answer it gets. Saying that ds is married is handing her the spoon to stir the pot and that is on you. Any non-answer would have worked fine. We are definitely just going to have to agree to disagree.

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1 hour ago, Acadie said:

Knowing that she's toxic, the supportive thing for you to do as a parent is to let your son handle his relationship with her as he sees fit. No more researching her family tree or reaching out to her, because it ends up involving him. Even if this was not your intention, it ends up interfering in his choices as to how he manages the relationship.

He not only has the right to manage his contact (or lack thereof) with her as he sees fit, but it's also likely necessary for his development to set boundaries with a relative who is toxic. I think he'd be helped in this developmental task by seeing you be scrupulous about respecting boundaries, even when he hasn't seen that example set on the other side of the family. 

this.  It's about respecting your son, and his choices.  you don't have to agree with him to respect that it IS his choice whether he has a relationship with her or not.

my dsil recently cut off contact with his favorite brother,  - because he was sharing information about him  with their parents.  

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1 minute ago, the system has a hiccough said:

this.  It's about respecting your son, and his choices.  you don't have to agree with him to respect that it IS his choice whether he has a relationship with her or not.

my dsil recently cut off contact with his favorite brother,  - because he was sharing information about him  with their parents.  

I am not in any way trying to manage my sons relationship or lack of with his grand mother.  I keep repeating this but I am a separate person who has a relationship with her.  More of a relationship in fact than my son ever will.  

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21 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

What you actually think doesn't matter. As you said, the question doesn't deserve an answer, so a non-answer it gets. Saying that ds is married is handing her the spoon to stir the pot and that is on you. Any non-answer would have worked fine. We are definitely just going to have to agree to disagree.

What do you mean what I think doesn’t matter? I KNOW that no matter what I said or didn’t say she would have ran with it.  She had no problem lying to me by saying she heard my son was living with a girl. But sure you and I can disagree.  I am fine with that.  Lol.  

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7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am not in any way trying to manage my sons relationship or lack of with his grand mother.  I keep repeating this but I am a separate person who has a relationship with her.  More of a relationship in fact than my son ever will.  

by giving her information about him - you have inserted yourself into his relationship with her.

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14 minutes ago, the system has a hiccough said:

by giving her information about him - you have inserted yourself into his relationship with her.

Shrug.  He is married.  A legal fact.    Not affecting his relationship with her at all.  He doesn’t care that she knows.  Telling people you haven’t talked to in a long time  your son got married is hardly seen as passing on private information.  It actually makes me laugh to hear people suggesting that is some big deal. Doesn’t matter if you disagree with me.  I don’t mind.  

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53 minutes ago, the system has a hiccough said:

my dsil recently cut off contact with his favorite brother,  - because he was sharing information about him  with their parents.  

We have recently decided to only tell toxic relatives what we did, not what we're going to do. No drama that way. He might like that idea for his brother.

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47 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Shrug.  He is married.  A legal fact.    Not affecting his relationship with her at all.  He doesn’t care that she knows.  Telling people you haven’t talked to in a long time  your son got married is hardly seen as passing on private information.  It actually makes me laugh to hear people suggesting that is some big deal. Doesn’t matter if you disagree with me.  I don’t mind.  

then why did you even bring it up here?

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The correct answer to "Do you like that girl your son is living with" is "Yup, she's great!"

I presume your son IS living with her, most people do live with their spouse. There's no dishonesty there. He IS living with her.

Your ex-MIL didn't ask you because she was so curious about whether or not your son was married. She asked you because she wanted to stir up trouble, and if I were your ex, having grown up in this toxic household, I'd wonder if maybe you answered on purpose in order to stir that trouble to your advantage - say, to place yourself as the beleaguered and put-upon mother, the good one who stands against Toxic Granny with him, and to sort of force your son to have more contact with you.

Which is why your ex is so mad. There's no point telling me that this isn't what you were doing -  I really don't care either way. But if there's any chance that it is what you were angling for then I bet your son thinks it too.

Quote

I want to be kind to an old lady who has no one in her life.  

 

She has no one because she's a horrible person. That's her own fault. There are lots of old people who have nobody through no fault of their own, go be kind to one of them.

Quote

I have to have a reason? [for bringing it up here]

 

Most people do have reasons for what they say, yes.

Edited by Tanaqui
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You can simply say, she's lovely and move on.  There was no need for clarification.  You should be capable to control that angle of the conversation.   I call BS.  You either knew you were poking and this was the likely result or you are really really bad at foresight.   Either way, not your news to share given the entire story and could have easily been side stepped.

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7 minutes ago, Truth said:

You can simply say, she's lovely and move on.  There was no need for clarification.  You should be capable to control that angle of the conversation.   I call BS.  You either knew you were poking and this was the likely result or you are really really bad at foresight.   Either way, not your news to share given the entire story and could have easily been side stepped.

 

Oh, it's probably true that if ex-MIL is that toxic then any answer would've been the wrong one. The only winning move was not to play. Scarlett knows this woman is horrible, and would do better to not contact her at all. Not because she's horrible - I mean, if you want to subject yourself to that, whatever - but because contacting her is bound to redirect her horribleness back towards those people who never talk to her at all, her son and grandson.

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26 minutes ago, Truth said:

You either knew you were poking and this was the likely result or you are really really bad at foresight.    

Of course, the same can be said for her ex, he intentionally asked his mom about the card Scarlett sent. 

15 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 but because contacting her is bound to redirect her horribleness back towards those people who never talk to her at all, her son and grandson.

The son, Scarlett's ex, does talk to his mom. He's the one who asked her about the card. 

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26 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

The correct answer to "Do you like that girl your son is living with" is "Yup, she's great!"

I presume your son IS living with her, most people do live with their spouse. There's no dishonesty there. He IS living with her.

Your ex-MIL didn't ask you because she was so curious about whether or not your son was married. She asked you because she wanted to stir up trouble, and if I were your ex, having grown up in this toxic household, I'd wonder if maybe you answered on purpose in order to stir that trouble to your advantage - say, to place yourself as the beleaguered and put-upon mother, the good one who stands against Toxic Granny with him, and to sort of force your son to have more contact with you.

Which is why your ex is so mad. There's no point telling me that this isn't what you were doing -  I really don't care either way. But if there's any chance that it is what you were angling for then I bet your son thinks it too.

 

She has no one because she's a horrible person. That's her own fault. There are lots of old people who have nobody through no fault of their own, go be kind to one of them.

 

Most people do have reasons for what they say, yes.

 You really have a poor opinion of me.  You are wrong.  What I say to my xMIL has zero affect on my relationship with my son.  He doesn’t care.  And it certainly isn’t causing my son to have more contact with me...just —-I don’t even know what to say to that.  Except my relationship with my son and my xh are not like what you seem to think.  

24 minutes ago, Truth said:

You can simply say, she's lovely and move on.  There was no need for clarification.  You should be capable to control that angle of the conversation.   I call BS.  You either knew you were poking and this was the likely result or you are really really bad at foresight.   Either way, not your news to share given the entire story and could have easily been side stepped.

Well, I don’t know how to respond to someone calling me a liar.  So whatever.  

14 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Oh, it's probably true that if ex-MIL is that toxic then any answer would've been the wrong one. The only winning move was not to play. Scarlett knows this woman is horrible, and would do better to not contact her at all. Not because she's horrible - I mean, if you want to subject yourself to that, whatever - but because contacting her is bound to redirect her horribleness back towards those people who never talk to her at all, her son and grandson.

My xh talks to her twice a day.  And my ds never talks to her and this won’t change either one of those things.  All it did was cause my xh to have to have an unpleasant conversation with her because he didn’t tell her.  He said it wasn’t too bad. 

I don’t know why some of you think my character is so bad that I couldn’t possibly have sent her a card to be kind.  

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4 minutes ago, katilac said:

Of course, the same can be said for her ex, he intentionally asked his mom about the card Scarlett sent. 

The son, Scarlett's ex, does talk to his mom. He's the one who asked her about the card. 

Yes, he thought it was nice I sent her a card.  He is the only relative who is involved in her care at all.  He thought it was weird she wouldn’t mention she got a card from me and thus why he asked her about it.  She says she has a new mailman who is delivering her mail to the next street over often.  

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Scarlett, I didn't say anything about your relationship with your son or your ex. What I said is that people who grow up in toxic households or with toxic parents - like your ex-husband - are prone to seeing those same toxic patterns from other people.

If your ex-MIL is toxic in this way, and she clearly is, and you played into it and he's upset at you now, then there's a very good chance he thinks you did it on purpose. Because that's what he was raised with. This has nothing to do with you and how you act in your day to day life - unless, of course, it does. I don't really have an opinion on that, though. Any one of us could secretly be a dozen times more toxic than your MIL in your worst nightmares, and how could you know? Only the people very close to us would have any idea.

Quote

I don’t know why some of you think my character is so bad that I couldn’t possibly have sent her a card to be kind.  

 

Again, that's not what I said. I said you should know better than to direct your kindness towards her, because she bites. Direct it somewhere else, towards somebody who isn't alone due to her own bad behavior.

I may not have actually expressed an opinion on your character or personality, nor yet your motivations during this whole kerfluffle, but I'm feeling distinctly unimpressed with your reading comprehension. I prefer it when people respond to the words I actually said rather than the ones they made up.

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8 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Scarlett, I didn't say anything about your relationship with your son or your ex. What I said is that people who grow up in toxic households or with toxic parents - like your ex-husband - are prone to seeing those same toxic patterns from other people.

If your ex-MIL is toxic in this way, and she clearly is, and you played into it and he's upset at you now, then there's a very good chance he thinks you did it on purpose. Because that's what he was raised with. This has nothing to do with you and how you act in your day to day life - unless, of course, it does. I don't really have an opinion on that, though. Any one of us could secretly be a dozen times more toxic than your MIL in your worst nightmares, and how could you know? Only the people very close to us would have any idea.

 

Again, that's not what I said. I said you should know better than to direct your kindness towards her, because she bites. Direct it somewhere else, towards somebody who isn't alone due to her own bad behavior.

I may not have actually expressed an opinion on your character or personality, nor yet your motivations during this whole kerfluffle, but I'm feeling distinctly unimpressed with your reading comprehension. I prefer it when people respond to the words I actually said rather than the ones they made up.

Ok, so you don’t think I was stirring up trouble but you think that is what my xh thinks?  He didnt seem to be saying that.  He was mad and said I had played into her bluff.  But whatever.  It doesn’t really matter.  I know my motives and they aren’t bad.  
 

And wasn’t just responding to you.  

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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I have to have a reason? 

everyone has a reason, whether they are aware of it or not.

it could range from innocently thinking she was aware of your son being married, in which case it wouldn't have been new information (so why didn't she just ask how  you like his wife? - unless she was wanting to be unkind by referring to her as "the woman" rather than "his wife". you know she's toxic, you know she causes problems for other people fi she feels like it.)

you boycotted the wedding because you disapproved of something about your son.  your exmil - who even you realize is toxic, wasn't even informed there was a wedding.  It could also be part of you, (and would require real introspection to think upon) of "getting back" at your ex and your son because you disapproved enough to have boycotted the wedding yourself.

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1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

everyone has a reason, whether they are aware of it or not.

it could range from innocently thinking she was aware of your son being married, in which case it wouldn't have been new information (so why didn't she just ask how  you like his wife? - unless she was wanting to be unkind by referring to her as "the woman" rather than "his wife". you know she's toxic, you know she causes problems for other people fi she feels like it.)

you boycotted the wedding because you disapproved of something about your son.  your exmil - who even you realize is toxic, wasn't even informed there was a wedding.  It could also be part of you, (and would require real introspection to think upon) of "getting back" at your ex and your son because you disapproved enough to have boycotted the wedding yourself.

The question was why did I post about it.  

As far as why I told her I just felt I had no good option.  She wanted to get info out of me and she got it.  So be it.  
 

I do not disapprove of my son or his wife.  And I am not mad at them or my xh.  He has been very kind to me through all of this past year with my son.  He understands it quite well and it really isn’t anything I want to rehash here. And it has zero to do with my XMiL and me. 

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Is it possible you told ex mother in law about your son's marriage because you are more comfortable with his being married than living with a woman?  Maybe ex-mil had intent to manipulate you into sharing news re marriage.

Instead of giving *any* personal details about someone else to a known mean-spirited troublemaker, why not de-fang with, "Oh, it's been a while since I've seen him/her"  or "he/she is doing well as far as I know."

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