TGATB - what’s your take?

[StaceyinLA]

Do you like any or all of it?

[hs03842]

We are using it for Language Arts.  I have only actually worked through the level K Primer with my preschooler (which is not really the full fledged program).  It didn't look like much when I got it, but as we worked through it I was impressed at just how much was embedded into it.  My daughter learned a lot. I liked it enough to give it a try once we decided to homeschool this year. 

Why we chose it for this year:  It's an open and go ELA that covers all the bases, practices phonics, and doesn't seem to take too long each day.  Sounds good to me!  We have a lot to adjust to and new subjects to pick out, so working all of the ELA topics from one source seems appropriate for where we are at.  I like the artwork, my daughter loved working in her primer, and I think overall it will be a happy way to get the kids reading well.  There was an embedded reader in the primer which was helpful, and I like that in the big levels they have that, too.

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Edited June 8, 2020 by JoyKM

[StaceyinLA]

10 hours ago, JoyKM said:

This focuses on very young students so it may be totally off the mark for you--if so, sorry!

We are using it for Language Arts.  I have only actually worked through the level K Primer with my preschooler (which is not really the full fledged program).  It didn't look like much when I got it, but as we worked through it I was impressed at just how much was embedded into it.  My daughter learned a lot. I liked it enough to give it a try once we decided to homeschool this year.  Thought process:

Why we chose it for this year:  It's an open and go ELA that covers all the bases, practices phonics, and doesn't seem to take too long each day.  Sounds good to me!  We have a lot to adjust to and new subjects to pick out, so working all of the ELA topics from one source seems appropriate for where we are at.  I like the artwork, my daughter loved working in her primer, and I think overall it will be a happy way to get the kids reading well.  There was an embedded reader in the primer which was helpful, and I like that in the big levels they have that, too.

Long term choice:  I would cap my usage for TGTB ELA at level 3, though the reason may not bother everyone.  Glancing though the upper levels I don't really like how much the curriculum goes on and on about the importance of "wholesome, good books."  In fact reading the "good books" lesson early in Level 4 put me off to really considering it further--even as a Christian I don't like preachy curriculum in general, but I am willing to look past that in the lower levels for the reasons above and because the lower levels still require parent teaching (so I can gloss over stuff like that if it's cringe level preachy).  After that we'll be nearing middle school, and I'd like to change it up.

 

 

Thank you! My oldest dd is using it with her kids (pre-k and 1st), and I’ve been toying with it for my 2nd dd’s kids (I teach her two oldest kids - she works with the 5yo on the spectrum and has an infant - they live in a house on our property, so it works out nicely). Honestly, I’m just bored FOR them (we use R&S for math, English, spelling). Don’t get me wrong, I think the teaching in R&S is sound (I used the English with my own kids back in the day), but it is pretty dry and boring. I’d love to find a different approach that would still be solid. I mean heck I used LLATL with my oldest dd with a little R&S mixed in later, and she was by far my most well-rounded when it came to all things grammar. I’ve thought about doing that with them.

Sorry - I’m rambling. Thanks for your input!

[hs03842]

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Edited June 8, 2020 by JoyKM

[8filltheheart]

I am teaching my grandkids this upcoming school yr.  They will be in 3rd and 4th.  I decided on Oak Meadow to use with them.  I'm still homeschooling my 5th and 9th graders and design all of their courses, but I needed something that ds and dil can pick up and  use on days that they are at home.  Oak Meadow fits my teaching personality---more conversational, no busy work, less is more during the younger yrs, etc.  I added in Apples and Pears spelling (my granddaughter is dyslexic and the program will work for both of them bc it will help any child's spelling 😉 ) and substituted Horizons math for OM's bc I have been teaching it non-stop for over 26 yrs. 

[Sensoryspirals]

I love the math and the handwriting.

We are using Math 2 right now as a review.  My son is ASD and ADHD and we use multiple math curricula though the year, I like having a fun slightly easier one to break up the Beast and the Math mammoth.  With math 2, I can follow the script and both my pre-k and my rising 3rd understand it.  Its well done - the lessons have a morning review at the start with calendar work and then the lesson is mastery with no additional review.  The lessons are long winded and I edit or skip quite a bit since we have covered these already unless it has something we might not have tried.  Each lesson is either related to the one before (for about a group of 4 lessons) or is a different topic - ie, estimation has 3 lessons then it moves to clocks, estimating is then reviewed briefly 5 lessons after that.  The work pages are incredibly colorful and frankly just beautiful.

I plan to use Math 3 with Mammoth 3 for 3rd grade (plus beast academy on weekends).  

My pre-k / k kiddo will do Math K this fall.  She loves the hands on stuff and it's cheaper than rightstart 🤣.  She is finishing up Singapore Dimensions Pk now but I don't think she is ready for dimensions k.  Math K is slightly harder than dimensions pk but not as hard as dimensions k, so I think it will work well.  

They both use the handwriting and god I love that book.  Its exactly the handwriting I needed.  Short and sweet with a little art prompt on each page.  We will be continuing with their handwriting.

I downloaded the complete Level 3 LA and I'm really not sure about it.  I think I may use some of the ideas from it or the pages but I won't be using it completely.  There's so much language about how to be "christlike" and choosing high moral literature etc and I just can't, we are religious but it feels so forced.  The spelling and vocab are too light as well.  I will be using the Pre-k and K primer though with my little one - again it looks like it will fit her level perfectly since she's not ready for AAR 1.

[hs03842]

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Edited June 8, 2020 by JoyKM

[teachingtowheads]

I'm using the Pre-K with my newly 5-year-old. He's not quite ready for AAR 1 and needs review on his numbers and shapes too. It has been perfect for him.

I used the science and history this year with my 4th and 1st graders. This was my fifth year homeschooling and the first year ever that those subjects got done consistently. I find it very easy to teach, engaging, and my kids have retained a lot! We did History Year 1 and the Space Science, Human Body, Energy, and Arthropods units.

I also just started using the handwriting for my 7-year-old. We love the handwriting book. Simple and a fun little art activity on each page. 

I'm actually considering the math for my soon-to-be kindergartener and 2nd grader. I was really impressed by the samples. I've loved CLE but my almost 2nd grader didn't pass the placement test for TGATB Math 2 and now I'm questioning how much she learned/retained.

Looking at samples, I didn't feel the phonics and spelling are as solid/comprehensive as AAR and Apples and Pears so we haven't pursued TGATB LA. But I have really, really enjoyed the other stuff. 

[Janeway]

On 6/3/2020 at 9:08 AM, StaceyinLA said:

 

Thank you! My oldest dd is using it with her kids (pre-k and 1st), and I’ve been toying with it for my 2nd dd’s kids (I teach her two oldest kids - she works with the 5yo on the spectrum and has an infant - they live in a house on our property, so it works out nicely). Honestly, I’m just bored FOR them (we use R&S for math, English, spelling). Don’t get me wrong, I think the teaching in R&S is sound (I used the English with my own kids back in the day), but it is pretty dry and boring. I’d love to find a different approach that would still be solid. I mean heck I used LLATL with my oldest dd with a little R&S mixed in later, and she was by far my most well-rounded when it came to all things grammar. I’ve thought about doing that with them.

Sorry - I’m rambling. Thanks for your input!

I have used BJU English for years and just was so bored with it that I wanted a break. Since TGTB LA is free levels 1-5, I decided I would just try it. I never would have thought I would like it. But, I LOVE it. I mean, I just LOVE this!!! Maybe this will get boring eventually, but my 10 yr old has loved it and says he does not want to go back to BJU. 

[Xahm]

I've been using the handwriting and my kids enjoy it reasonably well, though that's not their favorite part of the day. I like the nice variety of activities and think that keeps it interesting. I read some of her recommended books list and her list of books never to read and absolutely cannot trust the LA after that. I'm not throwing my kids in the deep end of sex and cursing and graphic violence, but she recommends that no one ever read All Quiet in the Western Front because it uses God's name in vain and seems anti military. Anne Frank's diary is rejected because of Anne's bad attitude, and while I don't think the diary of as necessary to read as some school book lists would indicate, I think that criticism is missing the point entirely. So many of her reviews were like that, relying on a quick Google search for bad words leading to absolute rejection without any consideration for the context of the words, the importance of the work, etc. That's not someone whose help I want in teaching my kids.

[8filltheheart]

2 hours ago, square_25 said:

Well... there's place value, as in, "Say how many 10s and 1s are in the number," and there's place value, as in "use place value to take 3 away from 31." And while I bet most kids do get the former, it's really pretty important to be able to do the latter. And I find that a lot of programs are weak in getting kids to USE place value, as opposed to just pattern match it for one lesson, then move on to algorithms. 

Yes, I also know a kid using Math Lessons for a Living Education (and in fact, the family I'm thinking of said they kind of used both). She was very math intuitive, but definitely had conceptual gaps. 

Could it be wording?  I'm pretty sure if you said the latter to any of my kids that they would have given you a blank stare bc I never talked to them about place value that way.  If you asked them how you would break up 31 into 10s and 1s to take away 3, they would have understood.  I don't know that I have ever used placed value itself as a term of focus.  We discussed digits and value based on column.  

Edited June 6, 2020 by 8FillTheHeart

[hs03842]

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Edited June 8, 2020 by JoyKM

[8filltheheart]

5 hours ago, JoyKM said:

This looks interesting. What age/grade range do you do this spelling program?  Do children without dyslexia tend to work through it a bit more quickly?

Age/grade is really based on ability. I have a rising 9th grader who hasn't finished level D. My rising 5th grader probably could have in 4th or maybe this coming yr in 5th. 

In terms of progress, sure. We dont go through it rapidly at all bc the entire pt is to get it into their long-term memory. I would just recommend not considering a lesson a day's worth. Work for x number of mins and stop. The lessons are long.

Edited June 6, 2020 by 8FillTheHeart

[8filltheheart]

37 minutes ago, square_25 said:

No, it’s not wording. It’s just me asking them to take 3 away from 31. They can do it however they want.

8, I have no idea why you think every issue I’ve ever observed is due to my bad teaching. I have lots of experience teaching math and I’m a good, clear math teacher — it’s my area of expertise. If you want to have interesting conversations on here, then perhaps shutting down every conversation that notes an issue with one of the standard math programs is counterproductive.

??? I don't think that. When I read your post, I didn't read that you were saying they couldn't solved 31-3 since you said they didn't understand what they were doing and only using an algorithm. I thought you were saying they could solve it but couldn't explain it in terms of place value.  I have a granddaughter who struggles mightily with math, and when I am working with her, I have to really be careful about how I phrase things bc she will just completely shut down in confusion. Her understanding is mostly there,  but she can't really talk about math.  She can solve 31-3, but if I asked her about place value, she would definitely not be able to answer.  If I gave her cuisenaire rods, though, she could definitely demonstrate what she is thinking and doing.  So I was simply trying to understand what you are seeing. 

FWIW, I don't think TGATB would qualify as a standard math program. If you have a lot of students lacking basic number sense and their background is TGATB, that could be a strong indicator that their self-produced math program has significant deficits.

Edited June 6, 2020 by 8FillTheHeart

[hs03842]

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Edited June 8, 2020 by JoyKM

[ktgrok]

We found the language arts beautiful, but frustrating. The spelling is really bizarre. As in, there are spelling words, but they don't really spend time learning them before being asked to write them via dictation. Plus other words that are not really covered at all but the student is expected to be able to write. Good for a natural speller, but not other kids in my opinion. It was seriously frustrating on that score, even for my natural reader/speller. 

The grammar is advanced, and often something is not fully explained as they assume your kid has already done it on an earlier level. So they might do something then a year later it is ddone again but with little to no explanation. Again, frustrating. 

For many/most kids a given level may have reading way below their level but grammar above their level. Finding the right level is really hard because of that. 

It also takes a lot of teacher intensive time. A lot. 

That said, it really IS beautiful. I LOVED that they included so much poetry, picture study, even water colors. But it was causing more frustration than it was worth. 

I will say, the books they sell are fantastic. My first grader LOVED the beginning chapter books - they hooked him on reading. So hard to find good chapter books that are actually for beginners, but not too babyish - he loved Max on the Moon and such. 

[ktgrok]

On 6/2/2020 at 11:46 PM, JoyKM said:

 

Long term choice:  I would cap my usage for TGTB ELA at level 3, though the reason may not bother everyone.  Glancing though the upper levels I don't really like how much the curriculum goes on and on about the importance of "wholesome, good books."  In fact reading the "good books" lesson early in Level 4 put me off to really considering it further--even as a Christian I don't like preachy curriculum in general, but I am willing to look past that in the lower levels for the reasons above and because the lower levels still require parent teaching (so I can gloss over stuff like that if it's cringe level preachy).  After that we'll be nearing middle school, and I'd like to change it up.

 

We actually liked that lesson, lol. I used it though to have a discussion about youtube videos, and why we need to be careful what we watch as well as what we read. It was very timely in our house, lol. And it did have an impact. 

On 6/4/2020 at 4:11 PM, square_25 said:

For what it's worth, the kids I knew who were using it for math weren't solid in math. They were having pretty serious place value problems. (I interacted with them via a homeschool center math class. I don't know exactly how their lessons at home looked like; just reporting.) 

Weird! They practice place value DAILY in book 1, to the point it was getting boring. And then when they do addition and subtraction they are using ten frames, etc. 

 

11 hours ago, square_25 said:

Well... there's place value, as in, "Say how many 10s and 1s are in the number," and there's place value, as in "use place value to take 3 away from 31." And while I bet most kids do get the former, it's really pretty important to be able to do the latter. And I find that a lot of programs are weak in getting kids to USE place value, as opposed to just pattern match it for one lesson, then move on to algorithms. 

Yes, I also know a kid using Math Lessons for a Living Education (and in fact, the family I'm thinking of said they kind of used both). She was very math intuitive, but definitely had conceptual gaps. 

I might not understand what you want there either, honestly. I saw your explanation with the colored chips, and I'm thinking maybe they are used to more of a graphic representation of ten...like a ten that is obviously a bundle of ones - either 10 toothpicks put together, or a strip of ten cubes, etc. When there is only one chip for a 10, and one chip for a one, and they hav learned that differently, that could be the problem? Or they just were not using it consistently - it is VERY tempting to skip the place value and the hands on parts of TGTB and just do the written part. If the parent is busy, that may have been happening. In other programs that stuff is part of the written assignment so harder to skip over. 

[ktgrok]

We also did about half a year of history with them. At first the kids liked it, but it is VERY wordy and longwinded. I think instead of doing a lesson a day it would make more sense to do it daily, half a lesson at a time. Younger kids just don't have the stamina for those longwinded lessons. Mine were rolling their eyes wanting to know when it would be done..even the parts they liked. 

The game is actually on my shelf. We never played it because until you learn it, they won't know the answers, and that would frustrate them. Older kids may be okay with that?

We LOVED LOVED LOVED Marine Biology. Space was less good. But the hands on parts of Marine Biology were great. We all learned a ton!

[8filltheheart]

7 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

We actually liked that lesson, lol. I used it though to have a discussion about youtube videos, and why we need to be careful what we watch as well as what we read. It was very timely in our house, lol. And it did have an impact. 

Weird! They practice place value DAILY in book 1, to the point it was getting boring. And then when they do addition and subtraction they are using ten frames, etc. 

 

I might not understand what you want there either, honestly. I saw your explanation with the colored chips, and I'm thinking maybe they are used to more of a graphic representation of ten...like a ten that is obviously a bundle of ones - either 10 toothpicks put together, or a strip of ten cubes, etc. When there is only one chip for a 10, and one chip for a one, and they hav learned that differently, that could be the problem? Or they just were not using it consistently - it is VERY tempting to skip the place value and the hands on parts of TGTB and just do the written part. If the parent is busy, that may have been happening. In other programs that stuff is part of the written assignment so harder to skip over. 

It would be for my granddaughter.  Cuisenaire rods' matching proportions and markings are what make them work as manipulatives.  I have colored unmarked C rods as well and I cannot use them with her bc they cause confusion.  She is very concrete in her thinking and problem-solving.  Definitely no leaping to making generalized connections. (For example, I definitely could not have used dimes/pennies to teach her how to add/subtract initially bc it would have been too abstract.  Now that she understands how money works, she could.  But, initially, no.)

[8filltheheart]

@mms The first yr I worked with my granddaughter was like banging my head against a wall bc my kids are very math intuitive and she is absolutely NOT.  How could a child not understand that 1+2 is the same thing as 2+1?  It isn't something I ever really had to teach before bc to my kids it was more of ......duh.....yeah, move on.  But, nope.  I had to actually work to get her understand.  I tried everything I could think of until finally spinning dominoes from one direction to the other and exploring the dots and how they didn't change in number simply bc we changed their positions was the thing that made the lightbulb go, "ohhhhhh."  (This was in K)

Now that she just finished 3rd, her math sense is much stronger, but it still light years from intuitive and she cannot make any conceptual leaps.  Everything is sooooooo concrete. Definitely "slow and steady" is the mantra as she moves baby steps forward.  By her age, my kids could easily do HOE problems.  With her, no way.  That would be the equivalent of dumping her into a foreign language speaking country and expecting her to understand.   I am hopeful as I see her slow progression that maturity will help bring the ability to conceptualize more abstract ideas, but definitely not at 9.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by 8FillTheHeart