Any landscape design people want to offer suggestions?

[ktgrok]

I'm redoing the back yard - finally! We ordered new screening for the pool (which is now on backorder, may have to drive across the stupid state to get it) and DH painted the pool deck. I have sod coming for the sides on Wednesday. I'm currently raking and prepping the soil for that, and trying to figure out what to do with the center/back area, behind the pool deck. That area has 3 oak trees, one of which has a lot of exposed roots, and there is significant shade. We are going to trim the oaks for the shade issue, But the roots will still prevent me from just laying sod across the whole thing. Planting large shrubs will be hard with the oak root, and I'm getting conflicting advice on the internet about planting ground cover around the oaks as to if it will damage them or not. I have an email out to my local county extension office for advice, but figured I'd ask the hive too. 

I need room for two 70lb dogs to be able to run and wrestle and play. I am thinking some grass, some ground cover or small shade plants, some mulch maybe? Thoughts? I'm just not sure how to put it goether. 

OH, another idea I saw was to build a deck or bench around the tree, to kind of cover up the exposed roots...not sure I have the space, but it is kind of a neat idea! The big one in the left corner is the worst, maybe a deck in that corner would be neat, with some chairs and potted plants? But that's a major project, sigh. (ignore all the junk, broken screens, etc...waiting on the new ones, and I've been moving everything to the back while I prep the sides, lol. I have people picking up the pavers, etc)

Edited June 1, 2020 by Ktgrok

[City Mouse]

You could do large circles around the oak trees and fill the circles with mulch. The sod the rest, but looking at the size of those trees, there may be too much shade for grass to grow well.

[ktgrok]

11 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

You could do large circles around the oak trees and fill the circles with mulch. The sod the rest, but looking at the size of those trees, there may be too much shade for grass to grow well.

Yeah,I'm getting the most shade tolerant one I can, but that's a definite possibility. Trying to think of something else to do back there to make it look nice, if that is the case. I think parts of it get enough light for grass, but some probably doesn't, and even if it does, the dogs are going to tear it up, lol. Which is why that area will be done last, after I see how the sod holds up on the sides. 

[Pam in CT]

Re shade plants under the trees -- Liriope grows all the way down to Miami... you'd need to water it regularly the first year, but once it's set nothing can kill it, even 70 pound dogs.  It divides easily, so you could start with a small circle and then expand outward if the grass doesn't grow well.  (You have to dig up the clumps and divide them -- it doesn't send out runners, so left to itself it just sits there obediently.)

I might try miscanthus or other tall ornamental grasses back by the wall as well. I love grasses blowing in the wind (and again once established they just sit there, requiring no maintenance).  I've never gardened anywhere near you and don't know what varieties would take, but there are all sorts of colors and textures and seedheads.

And, well, jasmine.  What I would give, for a climate that let me grow jasmine   ahhhhhhhhh........

[ktgrok]

Thanks I actualy do have a hammock that hangs between two of the trees - it just isn't up right now because frogs kept living in it, lol. Now I put it up when I use it, which isn't often because the yard is not inviting. 

[Pen]

Is there room for an orange tree? Or two? And maybe a lemon?

 

would give fruit in fruit season,  color, shade, and the scent of blossoms in blossom season. 

 

 

(plus maybe a little herbs area with a rock seating spot, and then hmm low steppable wildflowers mix.

 

 

[Pen]

Also a dwarf peach could be nice.  And some passion fruit or kiwi vines for on the fences. 

 

[Pen]

Dang.  I was looking at the pictures and not paying attention to the shade problem.  

 

 

[Pen]

 Okay octagonal wood benches around the trees, with room for trunk growth.  Your sod.

 

and even one orange tree and shade tolerant fruit or flowering vining if possible.  Some pretty clematis may work, though kiwi or passion fruit would be tastier.   And how about some tree house? 

[Spy Car]

Do your Oaks in FL tolerate heavy watering?

Here in SoCal our native Coast Live Oaks (Quercus Agrifolia) would almost certainly die if they were irrigated with as much water as it takes to sustain grass.

Bill

[Spy Car]

I'd be tempted to plant a bed right behind the pool in a curved rough semi-circle that you could look out on from inside with a gravel path behind it where the dogs could run unobstructed. And to do a hedge, or a mass planting of hedge-like vines (with added supports) on the fence-line. On the far-side of the gravel path (near the oaks) I'd do groundcovers or other appropriate companion plants that would not risk the health of the oak trees.

Something like this:

 

 

Here is the path (forgive the crudeness) with the plants removed from the bed for the sake of vizualization

 

 

Sorry you asked? 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

The far-side by the Oaks is probably too lush in this mock up, but here is the general idea:

 

Bill

[klmama]

Bill, this is fabulous!  What software did you use?  

[Laura Corin]

3 minutes ago, klmama said:

Bill, this is fabulous!  What software did you use?  

Yes please, @Spy Car I hope to move house and will be redesigning the garden.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Laura Corin

[Spy Car]

7 minutes ago, klmama said:

Bill, this is fabulous!  What software did you use?  

I use Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer. They compete with Photoshop and Illustrator, made by Serif in the UK. Top notch graphics programs (and really inexpensive compared with Adobe).

These were just "down and dirty."

Bill

 

ETA: There is a third program in the "suite" in the Affinity line up called Publisher that is great for page layouts (competes with InDesign) that I did not use for this little mock up.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Spy Car

[klmama]

Still really cool. Thanks for the info. 

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, klmama said:

Still really cool. Thanks for the info. 

Used to be Mac only. Now they run on Macs and PCs. About $50 per program, $40 when on sale (which happens pretty regularly).

I'd used Photoshop for decades. I ditched it for Affinity Photo (et al).

The only caveat is that these are professional-grade graphics tools, so there is a learning curve.

Bill

[klmama]

Good to know.  I like the price. Thanks.

[Spy Car]

6 minutes ago, klmama said:

Good to know.  I like the price. Thanks.

IMO a fantastic set of programs for young people (and others) who want to spend the time to learn a professional grade graphics suite. The tutorial videos produced by Affinity are superb (and help shorten the learning curve) and there are many user-produced videos as well.

For almost any future job having image editing and page layout skills is a plus. I have literally spent thousands on Adobe products over the decades. To spend $150 or less on Affinity Photo, Designer, and Publisher is an absolute steal for those who really wish to learn graphics skills. 

These mockups are really "rough." As I said, down and dirty. That's just me being lazy and tossing it off quickly. Not something to judge the software by.

Bill

Edited June 2, 2020 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

Speaking of "rough."

 

This is a extremely rough garden bench. Perhaps 5 (or more) sides would be better?

Imagine gravel extending around the perimeter.

Bill

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Spy Car

[Laura Corin]

@Spy Car glad to have my instincts confirmed by someone who knows what he is doing.  When I saw the plot, I thought: needs zones and a curve.

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, Pen said:

 Okay octagonal wood benches around the trees, with room for trunk growth.  Your sod.

 

and even one orange tree and shade tolerant fruit or flowering vining if possible.  Some pretty clematis may work, though kiwi or passion fruit would be tastier.   And how about some tree house? 

 

7 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I'd be tempted to plant a bed right behind the pool in a curved rough semi-circle that you could look out on from inside with a gravel path behind it where the dogs could run unobstructed. And to do a hedge, or a mass planting of hedge-like vines (with added supports) on the fence-line. On the far-side of the gravel path (near the oaks) I'd do groundcovers or other appropriate companion plants that would not risk the health of the oak trees.

Something like this:

 

Sorry you asked? 

Bill

 

oh my goodness!!!! Not sorry at ALL! I REALLY needed that visual to see what could be done, thank you!!!! Seriously, that is awesome! I think there might even be room behind the tree on the far right to loop the path around it, so the dogs have a "race track", lol. So curved path with a circle (well, not a circle exactly) that goes around that last oak, so they can loop and head back. I'll play with that! (but you forgot to put in my hammock between the two trees on the left, lol)

6 hours ago, klmama said:

Bill, this is fabulous!  What software did you use?  

My first thought, as I looked at this with only a few sips of coffee in me, 'was wow, that looks a lot like my pool!" Then it hit me that it WAS my pool...and I was like, "what witchcraft is this???"

3 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

@Spy Car glad to have my instincts confirmed by someone who knows what he is doing.  When I saw the plot, I thought: needs zones and a curve.

Yes! Zones! That's the word I was looking for! I want zones! 

If it helps for thinking of the whole yard, this is the area I'm working on today, prepping the soil for the sod. (Palisades Zoysia - once established is drought tolerant, insect tolerant, and very shade tolerant.) You can see this is the sunniest area, where the kids playset is, and behind that the raised bed vegetable garden. Planning to put pots in that garden area as well, in the corners and such. And there will be a fence at the edge of the patio, cutting the yard so that the back behind the pool, and the left side of the pool area, is accessible to the dogs but the right side of the pool, with the playset, is not. Mostly because at least one of the dogs thinks pooping ON the slide is a good idea, and another likes to dig IN the raised bed garden. (I think the black fence I made for that purpose out of PVC is in one of the photos, leaning against something right now, as I'm working on the sod prep)

Edited June 2, 2020 by Ktgrok

[ktgrok]

Oh, and that curve? It is naturally there from the dogs already, lol. That's where they run, so perfect. 

[ikslo]

Would gravel stay put with dogs running through, though?  I like Bill’s plan, just not the gravel.  I’d probably stick to grass or a walkable groundcover (blue star creeper, maybe?) or even dirt for the path. Or maybe large sunken slate pavers interspersed with groundcover wherever the grass won’t take, if roots allow.

[Selkie]

How will your dogs do with the plants? Those plants would be toast if my dogs were running and wrestling and playing in that area - either dug up or trampled. I have a lot more dogs than you, though, so maybe just two dogs wouldn't be a problem. 

We made part of our yard into a totally practical dog area - clean chip stone (easy to poop scoop), no plantings, lots of room to run and dig holes to their hearts' content. 

[Katy]

I've always liked azaleas under live oaks.  I wouldn't bother with the decks because the maintenance would drive me crazy and I love the look of the roots.  And by maintenance I mean you have to cut the deck close enough to the trees that little feet can't fall through and you have to trim the deck an inch or two every year or damage the tree.  Not worth it.

I don't think peach trees bloom well that far south, unless the variety in our yard was different than a usual one.

If there's a way to squeeze in citrus or a magnolia I think both are worth it, but put them far away from the screen because falling debris might damage it.

 

 

[Katy]

I mean just look at this.  So blissful.  https://www.google.com/search?q=azalea+under+live+oaks&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALeKk00idzdUDmg5zIjw8jnvwwLcSOD_VQ:1591105939235&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBjbvCo-PpAhUZWs0KHZEIBm4Q_AUoAXoECA0QAw&biw=1138&bih=483

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, ikslo said:

Would gravel stay put with dogs running through, though?  I like Bill’s plan, just not the gravel.  I’d probably stick to grass or a walkable groundcover (blue star creeper, maybe?) or even dirt for the path. Or maybe large sunken slate pavers interspersed with groundcover wherever the grass won’t take, if roots allow.

I'd likely do mulch instead of gravel.....As part of my front and back yard renovations I've been disposing of a metric butt ton of rock, gravel, and lava stone. I don't know who remembers, but I ended up in the orthopedist office last year for acute synovitis in my hands from digging it out by hand. Many wheelbarrows full, that had once been part of landscaping I guess, but over time was worked into the dirt, escaped the beds, something....it was just all over, and as it gets combined with our florida sand/soil it forms this inpenetrable mass that is impossible to stick a shovel into...like concrete. So I had to sit there with a screw driver and my fingers and hand trowel and work it all loose. I am still raking and digging it up, and the stuff haunts me. I found a lava rock in the garage this week, middle of the floor. Like a poltergeist put it there. And got another rock stuck in the pool vaccum the other day. I now have a visceral reaction to rocks as lanscaping. 

Mulch..mulch will break down if you ignore it, and if you want you can rake it up easily. 

30 minutes ago, Katy said:

I've always liked azaleas under live oaks.  I wouldn't bother with the decks because the maintenance would drive me crazy and I love the look of the roots.  And by maintenance I mean you have to cut the deck close enough to the trees that little feet can't fall through and you have to trim the deck an inch or two every year or damage the tree.  Not worth it.

I don't think peach trees bloom well that far south, unless the variety in our yard was different than a usual one.

If there's a way to squeeze in citrus or a magnolia I think both are worth it, but put them far away from the screen because falling debris might damage it.

 

 

I love azaleas! Great idea! 

As for peach or citrus, I may put some in the kid play area or even in the front yard. There are a few peach tree varieites that UF developed that might grow here, low chill hours, and oranges are not really an option anymore due to citrus greening. Lemons work, or limes, I think. I'd LOVE a mandarin tree, but need to find a nursery that carries them. 

[Spy Car]

6 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

@Spy Car glad to have my instincts confirmed by someone who knows what he is doing.  When I saw the plot, I thought: needs zones and a curve.

I'm the one who should be saying that I'm glad to have my instincts confirmed by someone who knows what she is doing.

I just thought this would look nice, give the dogs a racetrack, and with the right plantings would help protect the oaks.

I'm only operating on "instinct." But thanks for the compliment.

Bill

 

 

[Spy Car]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

oh my goodness!!!! Not sorry at ALL! I REALLY needed that visual to see what could be done, thank you!!!! Seriously, that is awesome! I think there might even be room behind the tree on the far right to loop the path around it, so the dogs have a "race track", lol. So curved path with a circle (well, not a circle exactly) that goes around that last oak, so they can loop and head back. I'll play with that! (but you forgot to put in my hammock between the two trees on the left, lol)

My first thought, as I looked at this with only a few sips of coffee in me, 'was wow, that looks a lot like my pool!" Then it hit me that it WAS my pool...and I was like, "what witchcraft is this???"

Yes! Zones! That's the word I was looking for! I want zones! 

If it helps for thinking of the whole yard, this is the area I'm working on today, prepping the soil for the sod. (Palisades Zoysia - once established is drought tolerant, insect tolerant, and very shade tolerant.) You can see this is the sunniest area, where the kids playset is, and behind that the raised bed vegetable garden. Planning to put pots in that garden area as well, in the corners and such. And there will be a fence at the edge of the patio, cutting the yard so that the back behind the pool, and the left side of the pool area, is accessible to the dogs but the right side of the pool, with the playset, is not. Mostly because at least one of the dogs thinks pooping ON the slide is a good idea, and another likes to dig IN the raised bed garden. (I think the black fence I made for that purpose out of PVC is in one of the photos, leaning against something right now, as I'm working on the sod prep)

 

You are too funny!!!

Keep thinking "race track" for the dogs. That idea helped guide my design ideas as I've been remaking my gardens (since I pulled out all our grass (here in drought prone SoCal). Lots of meandering paths (aka dog raceways) framed in by "zones" (a term I just picked up this morning myself ) with pretty mixed plantings.

I do like smooth gravel, but any soft oak-friendly path material is fine. Decomposed granite can be nice too.

Here's your hammock:

Bill

 

 

[Laura Corin]

37 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I'm the one who should be saying that I'm glad to have my instincts confirmed by someone who knows what she is doing.

I just thought this would look nice, give the dogs a racetrack, and with the right plantings would help protect the oaks.

I'm only operating on "instinct." But thanks for the compliment.

Bill

Thank you.  I do find it's easier to look at other people's gardens and decide - I get much less bold when looking at my own.  Something for me to think about.

Unfortunately, I can't comment on planting - my Scottish and English experience is not relevant!

[Matryoshka]

8 hours ago, Spy Car said:

IMO a fantastic set of programs for young people (and others) who want to spend the time to learn a professional grade graphics suite. The tutorial videos produced by Affinity are superb (and help shorten the learning curve) and there are many user-produced videos as well.

For almost any future job having image editing and page layout skills is a plus. I have literally spent thousands on Adobe products over the decades. To spend $150 or less on Affinity Photo, Designer, and Publisher is an absolute steal for those who really wish to learn graphics skills. 

These mockups are really "rough." As I said, down and dirty. That's just me being lazy and tossing it off quickly. Not something to judge the software by.

Bill

Thanks for that info.  We've been paying for a Student subscription of Adobe Suite for dd, but she's going to graduate soon, and the whole subscription model is evil for people who just want to use the stuff and aren't earning money with it.  She's ditched Graphic Design for Accounting...  And the Suite has a bunch of stuff you don't even need.  I used to use Adobe products too (used to work in Marketing years ago and did tons of layout and design) and would love to have those tools but I'm not going to subscribe to the Suite thing just for occasional use!  

ETA: You made her yard look great!

Edited June 2, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Spy Car]

11 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Thank you.  I do find it's easier to look at other people's gardens and decide - I get much less bold when looking at my own.  Something for me to think about.

Unfortunately, I can't comment on planting - my Scottish and English experience is not relevant!

Yeah, Florida has its own strange issues that range from nematodes, to soil, to blighs and diseases, and a climate that make specific plant recommendations from me pretty useless.

I did google Florida oak companion plantings and found some pretty cool options. I like doing a health mix of native plants where they fit in as proving creatures with habitat and a food supply is one of my gardening goals.

Another would be to protect the oaks. I don't know what Katie's oaks need for their optimal conditions.

Bill

[Spy Car]

20 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Thanks for that info.  We've been paying for a Student subscription of Adobe Suite for dd, but she's going to graduate soon, and the whole subscription model is evil for people who just want to use the stuff and aren't earning money with it.  She's ditched Graphic Design for Accounting...  And the Suite has a bunch of stuff you don't even need.  I used to use Adobe products too (used to work in Marketing years ago and did tons of layout and design) and would love to have those tools but I'm not going to subscribe to the Suite thing just for occasional use!  

I'm going to avoid going on a rant--not easy--over Abode's "subscription model."

Let's just say that I had already purchased thousands of dollars worth of software and upgrades from Adobe over the years. I always paid for my software, despite the fact that I could have "liberated" copies from any number of sources.

So when, after I'd borne the expense over all these years--Adobe screwed over the loyal user-base, I was furious!

For a young person who has no "investment" the subscription model is still a burden, but not the same sort of insult.

I wanted out. But the options were slim. There was a Mac-only pixel editor called Pixelmator that was a pretty good prosumer product (I bought it), but I really need a fully professional product. That's when I discovered Affinity Photo (then still in "beta").

The suite was precisely what I was looking for. It is a professional grade suite. I love it. And I vastly prefer Designer to Illustrator. I was a master of Photoshop, but in Illustrator I always felt like a clod. I used it for the few things I needed to do, and otherwise stayed out of this vector program. In contrast, I love the vector tools in Designer.

Affinity Photo and Affinity Photo are excellent and keep getting better. I've had regular free upgrade for the past 5 years for my $40 or $50 investment.

Affinity Publisher is the newest program in the suite. Perfect for my needs, but if one were truly going into commercial publishing I think it is the one element where the very mature Adobe InDesign still reigns.

Otherwise, the Affinity suite is mindblowing in its power, support (great forum that has quickly solved any question I had over the years), lean/fast code (unlike Abode's aging bloatware) and the price can't be beat.

Five stars from me. Unequivocal endorsement.

Bill

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Spy Car

[Matryoshka]

13 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I'm going to avoid going on a rant--not easy--over Abode's "subscription model."

Let's just say that I had already purchased thousands of dollars worth of software and upgrades from Adobe over the years. I always paid for my software, despite the fact that I could have "liberated" copies from any number of sources.

So when, after I'd borne the expense over all these years--Adobe screwed over the loyal user-base, I was furious!

For a young person who has no "investment" the subscription model is still a burden, but not the same sort of insult.

I wanted out. But the options were slim. There was a Mac-only pixel editor called Pixelmator that was a pretty good prosumer product (I bought it), but I really need a fully professional product. That's when I discovered Affinity Photo (then still in "beta").

The suite was precisely what I was looking for. It is a professional grade suite. I love it. And I vastly prefer Designer to Illustrator. I was a master of Photoshop, but in Illustrator I always felt like a clod. I used it for the few things I needed to do, and otherwise stayed out of this vector program. In contrast, I love the vector tools in Designer.

Affinity Photo and Affinity Photo are excellent and keep getting better. I've had regular free upgrade for the past 5 years for my $40 or $50 investment.

Affinity Publisher is the newest program in the suite. Perfect for my needs, but if one were truly going into commercial publishing I think it is the one element where the very mature Adobe InDesign still reigns.

Otherwise, the Affinity suite is mindblowing in its power, support (great forum that has quickly solved any question I had over the years), lean/fast code (unlike Abode's aging bloatware) and the price can't be beat.

Five stars from me. Unequivocal endorsement.

Bill

I think I need this.... I have so missed having these tools, even if I rarely need them, when you do need them, Word and Paint really don't cut it...

[Pen]

8 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Speaking of "rough."

 

This is a extremely rough garden bench. Perhaps 5 (or more) sides would be better?

Imagine gravel extending around the perimeter.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

This is so cool!!!

 

How about an extra wood bench near the tree surrounding so that people can face each other and talk, or (with at least a makeshift table) play a board game, or one person can sit and put feet up on the tree surround.  

 

Orange tree? (I lived in SoCal at one point and very much miss having a citrus tree, am guessing Fl could have one!) 

 

if it can’t be something that both fruits and flowers, could the back edge vining be bougainvillea? Or is climate or sun not right? 

Play area: a fruiting vine might be able to grow on a sturdy dome that becomes a play / shade house under it

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

oh my goodness!!!! Not sorry at ALL! I REALLY needed that visual to see what could be done, thank you!!!! Seriously, that is awesome! I think there might even be room behind the tree on the far right to loop the path around it, so the dogs have a "race track", lol. So curved path with a circle (well, not a circle exactly) that goes around that last oak, so they can loop and head back. I'll play with that! (but you forgot to put in my hammock between the two trees on the left, lol)

My first thought, as I looked at this with only a few sips of coffee in me, 'was wow, that looks a lot like my pool!" Then it hit me that it WAS my pool...and I was like, "what witchcraft is this???"

Yes! Zones! That's the word I was looking for! I want zones! 

If it helps for thinking of the whole yard, this is the area I'm working on today, prepping the soil for the sod. (Palisades Zoysia - once established is drought tolerant, insect tolerant, and very shade tolerant.) You can see this is the sunniest area, where the kids playset is, and behind that the raised bed vegetable garden. Planning to put pots in that garden area as well, in the corners and such. And there will be a fence at the edge of the patio, cutting the yard so that the back behind the pool, and the left side of the pool area, is accessible to the dogs but the right side of the pool, with the playset, is not. Mostly because at least one of the dogs thinks pooping ON the slide is a good idea, and another likes to dig IN the raised bed garden. (I think the black fence I made for that purpose out of PVC is in one of the photos, leaning against something right now, as I'm working on the sod prep)

 

Maybe delicious / beautiful fruiting vines would work on this fence where there’s more sun

[Paige]

You can go here and see what plants are best for your zipcode. I'd put some shade loving plants under the trees or maybe even a happy moss if I couldn't get plants to grow. I have mulch but I wish I could get rid of it all. My neighbors have hostas under their big trees and it looks nice. 

http://www.nwf.org/nativeplantfinder

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Yeah, Florida has its own strange issues that range from nematodes, to soil, to blighs and diseases, and a climate that make specific plant recommendations from me pretty useless.

I did google Florida oak companion plantings and found some pretty cool options. I like doing a health mix of native plants where they fit in as proving creatures with habitat and a food supply is one of my gardening goals.

Another would be to protect the oaks. I don't know what Katie's oaks need for their optimal conditions.

Bill

 

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

 

 

Orange tree? (I lived in SoCal at one point and very much miss having a citrus tree, am guessing Fl could have one!) 

 

if it can’t be something that both fruits and flowers, could the back edge vining be bougainvillea? Or is climate or sun not right? 

Play area: a fruiting vine might be able to grow on a sturdy dome that becomes a play / shade house under it

Unfortunatley we have a disease called citrus greening, that makes citrus harder than it was when I was a kid. It's pretty impossible to avoid with oranges, I am looking into other citrus. 

Bouvainvilla grows like a weed in florida...but no way. Those thorns are a KILLER. We had one in front of our house as a kid and I am still traumatized from pulling those massive thorns out of my feet, lol. But confederate jasmine grows well here, I have some on the side of the house in my pollinator garden. Do does passionvine, etc. I'l have to look to see what works in that much shade, but I'm sure I can find something that will do well, and provide something for birds or butterflies. 

[Spy Car]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Unfortunatley we have a disease called citrus greening, that makes citrus harder than it was when I was a kid. It's pretty impossible to avoid with oranges, I am looking into other citrus. 

Bouvainvilla grows like a weed in florida...but no way. Those thorns are a KILLER. We had one in front of our house as a kid and I am still traumatized from pulling those massive thorns out of my feet, lol. But confederate jasmine grows well here, I have some on the side of the house in my pollinator garden. Do does passionvine, etc. I'l have to look to see what works in that much shade, but I'm sure I can find something that will do well, and provide something for birds or butterflies. 

I just started a form of Star Jasmine (aka Confederate Jasmine) here that is called "Madison." Madison stays a little smaller (which may or may not be a plus in your situation) than the standard version, but the main draw for me was that instead of the overwhelming "jasmine-like" fragrance it smells rather like orange blossoms. My plant is tiny still.

In my mind's eye, I envisioned the potential of dense plantings of Star Jasmine as a potential hedge along the back if you provided additional support for it to grow high.

I've had my own battles (and scars) with thriving Bougainvillea. Never again. It is beautiful, but I'm only willing to give blood for my roses these days.

Bill

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Spy Car

[ktgrok]

Ok, seems confederate jasmine, or pink jasmine, or coral honeysuckle might all work. Or a combination! I have both honeysuckle and the jasmine growing in my side yard right now, the honeysuckle is known to attract hummingbirds, although we don't have any yet 🙂 My husband really likes the vine idea :)And they are twinging, not clinging, so won't damage the fence - we can put up some wires for them to run on as a trellis. Or bleeding heart might work...I LOVE that plant. 

This is a shot of the back right part of the yard, you can see the tree there is pretty close tot he patio, so I'm thinking a path behind it? 

Definitley some azaelas somewhere, they'd love the soil there. And then something that makes berries for the birds perhaps - the birds LOVE those oak trees, but something to bring them down lower would be nice. There are a few native options. Maybe make the back left and back right corners into beds for those? And some plants with colored foilage, can't think of the name but there is one..something heart...that is popular. 

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

I think I need this.... I have so missed having these tools, even if I rarely need them, when you do need them, Word and Paint really don't cut it...

I promise you, if you miss Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, but you balk at the expense--and you are willing to put in a little time learning some new programs--you will love Affinity. It is an outstanding suite of tools. I'm extremely demanding when it comes to graphics tools (and almost everything else ) and YOU NEED THIS!!!

One of the great bargains of all time. At some point they may release 2.0 versions (which might require an upgrade fee) but I've been using AP and AD for 5 years with $80 being my total cost (purchased on sale). I bought APub more recently (as it was the last product they came out with) for the full price, as my student had a big school project and (even though we we complete newbies) Publisher was the bomb.

These are not aimed at super casual users--those who'd like to throw an instant filter on a photo--but is perfect for people like you (and me). The best.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I just started a form of Star Jasmine (aka Confederate Jasmine) here that is called "Madison." Madison stays a little smaller (which may or may not be a plus in your situation) than the standard version, but the main draw for me was that instead of the overwhelming "jasmine-like" fragrance it smells rather like orange blossoms. My plant is tiny still.

In my mind's eye, I envisioned the potential of dense plantings of Star Jasmine as a potential hedge along the back if you provided additional support for it to grow high.

I've had my own battles (and scars) with thriving Bougainvillea. Never again. It is beautiful, but I'm only willing to give blood for my roses these days.

Bill

 

Only those who have pulled out those thorns can truly understand, lol. The plants are viscious, which is a shame because they do grow SO well and are So pretty. But they run wild, and you have to bleed just to trim them back, and you always miss some of the thorns. Ugh. 

I do love ANYTHING that smells like orange blossoms. That is my number one favorite smell in the whole world. Growing up we had a meyer lemon, a key lime, and an orange tree and I remember being in my room with the windows open in early spring smelling them. Also, when I went to college, every spring break I'd drive home through orange groves, and that smell was the smell of "almost home". Definitely will look into that Madison...it might actually do well in another part of the yard too. I like jasmine smell too though:)

Oh, and speaking of good smelling plants, my new favorite is a sweet almond bush, aka incense bush. 

Ok, getting excited! A few Azaleas, maybe around that center oak or in the corner, for me, and then lots of native stuff for the pollinators/birds! (I figure since I love lawns so much it is my duty to plant pollinator plants where I don't have grass, sort of like a carbon offset. Makes up for my desire for a monostand lawn)

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Spy Car said:

I promise you, if you miss Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, but you balk at the expense--and you are willing to put in a little time learning some new programs--you will love Affinity. It is an outstanding suite of tools. I'm extremely demanding when it comes to graphics tools (and almost everything else ) and YOU NEED THIS!!!

One of the great bargains of all time. At some point they may release 2.0 versions (which might require an upgrade fee) but I've been using AP and AD for 5 years with $80 being my total cost (purchased on sale). I bought APub more recently (as it was the last product they came out with) for the full price, as my student had a big school project and (even though we we complete newbies) Publisher was the bomb.

These are not aimed at super casual users--those who'd like to throw an instant filter on a photo--but is perfect for people like you (and me). The best.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

Bill, my DH asked what you do for a living, and I couldn't remember to save my life. I know your son plays lacrosse and then water polo, and you love to sous vide your steak, and like dandelions, but no idea as to what general career field, lol. A vague answer is fine, he was just curious. 

[Spy Car]

7 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Ok, seems confederate jasmine, or pink jasmine, or coral honeysuckle might all work. Or a combination! I have both honeysuckle and the jasmine growing in my side yard right now, the honeysuckle is known to attract hummingbirds, although we don't have any yet 🙂 My husband really likes the vine idea :)And they are twinging, not clinging, so won't damage the fence - we can put up some wires for them to run on as a trellis. Or bleeding heart might work...I LOVE that plant. 

This is a shot of the back right part of the yard, you can see the tree there is pretty close tot he patio, so I'm thinking a path behind it? 

Definitley some azaelas somewhere, they'd love the soil there. And then something that makes berries for the birds perhaps - the birds LOVE those oak trees, but something to bring them down lower would be nice. There are a few native options. Maybe make the back left and back right corners into beds for those? And some plants with colored foilage, can't think of the name but there is one..something heart...that is popular. 

 

Could you sink some tall posts (4x4s) and string wire to support vines and get you up above the fence height? 

Bill

[ktgrok]

Ok, extra credit project - the 20 yr old has been BEGGING for a fire pit.....anyone see a way to work that in? They've aslo asked for a patio version, but we HAVE an indoor fireplace and I just haven't wanted to deal with the idea, lol. 

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Bill, my DH asked what you do for a living, and I couldn't remember to save my life. I know your son plays lacrosse and then water polo, and you love to sous vide your steak, and like dandelions, but no idea as to what general career field, lol. A vague answer is fine, he was just curious. 

I spent my career working in television and documentary film. Mostly editing, but I've also done a fair amount of writing and some producing as well.

Bill

[ktgrok]

Just now, Spy Car said:

Could you sink some tall posts (4x4s) and string wire to support vines and get you up above the fence height? 

Bill

Absolutely. Very easily. (If not 4x4s, than at the least some kind of metal rod, etc) Rather, if it was me, I'd use a metal rod I can bang into the ground, but since DH likes the vine idea, a LOT, he'd be willing to do the hard work and dig a few holes for the 4x4's, lol.

[ktgrok]

Just now, Spy Car said:

I spent my career working in television and documentary film. Mostly editing, but I've also done a fair amount of writing and some producing as well.

Bill

Awesome!!!!! He picked up that you were visually oriented, was why he was asking. And now, I may end up messaging you at some point to pick your brain on his behalf, as he is getting more into video making/editing, lol. He's put up some videos that are educational regarding his field, and just made a pretty darned decent one for a contest.

[Spy Car]

10 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Ok, extra credit project - the 20 yr old has been BEGGING for a fire pit.....anyone see a way to work that in? They've aslo asked for a patio version, but we HAVE an indoor fireplace and I just haven't wanted to deal with the idea, lol. 

Yeah. Perfect. See where the pile of bricks are here on the far-right or rather the plant that's next to the brick pile?

Your path could split, retaining its curve on the main arc, while opening into a small seating area with a firepit. That would be great. It makes me want to double-down on the use of gravel (fireproof) if you know what I mean?

In need to go garden myself. Maybe tonight I can do a mock up?

Bill

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Spy Car