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JadeOrchidSong

Twin Cities tonight

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With the curfew, though still people are out there, our National guards and police force have been able to hold out to stop violence. See my post (#4) down below.  

ETA: I posted an update on page 2

Edited by JadeOrchidSong
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I have been very interested in your posts, especially if they relate to knowledge about China, and was disappointed that whatever it was was deleted! 

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I hope you’re okay @JadeOrchidSong. If I remember correctly, you mentioned living near looting/rioting and were having trouble getting your son’s insulin? 

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5 hours ago, Pen said:

I have been very interested in your posts, especially if they relate to knowledge about China, and was disappointed that whatever it was was deleted! 

 

2 hours ago, Vintage81 said:

I hope you’re okay @JadeOrchidSong. If I remember correctly, you mentioned living near looting/rioting and were having trouble getting your son’s insulin? 

Sorry, I originally posted about curfew of The Twin Cities, but thought maybe people aren't interested, so I deleted it. I live one block from Lake Street for 20 years of my life in the US. I witnessed the transformation from a lifeless dump to a vibrant joy-giving, job-providing beautiful street. Mr. George Floyd's brutal murder has infuriated my city and the whole nation. We demand justice and real change. However, the righteous anger and protests have been hijacked and morphed into rioting, looting, burning. Seeing my Lake Street (and my city) destroyed with no grocery nor pharmacies and struggling with getting insulin for my son, we feel crushed. Dh and I break into crying multiple times a day. We moved to stay with my in-laws for a few days. We finally found insulin at their Walgreen's. The Target they looted and the Walgreen's they burned on Lake Street are my pharmacies. 

It is extremely sad. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

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I’m so so so sorry.

 

It is horrible. 😭😭😭

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Stay safe. Here it’s Oakland and downtown San Jose that always get wrecked. Pharmacies do tend to get looted. 
Hopefully you were able to get a month supply of insulin. 

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1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

Stay safe. Here it’s Oakland and downtown San Jose that always get wrecked. Pharmacies do tend to get looted. 
Hopefully you were able to get a month supply of insulin. 

Yes, we got five cartridges at a time, lasting two months. We are good for now. His pen needles need refill in a month. I hope pharmacies and grocery stores get restored the fastest. 

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We needed to pickup a prescription from Walgreens tonight and it was closed. Apparently they closed all the stores in the country. It’s a good thing we aren’t actually out of medication yet. 

 

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I’m so glad you posted. I lived on Longfellow many years ago (my friend that owned the house just sold it in the last month)and have been following this news closely. I was back in the area in December. It had become so vibrant and this is a heartbreak.

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I’m so sorry you are living through this. 😞

We lived in St Paul for many years and can’t imagine the cities like this. My understanding is that the violence is at the hands of well organised, often out of state groups that are capitalising on the situation, intentionally sowing terror and muddying the messaging. My heart hurts. 
 

Please stay safe, JOS. And keep us updated as you can or have the heart to do. ((Hugs))

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We live on the cusp of the action.   Not super far from lake.  Regularly use businesses there.  It is so sad.  Stay safe Minnesota.  💕

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7 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

Yes, we got five cartridges at a time, lasting two months. We are good for now. His pen needles need refill in a month. I hope pharmacies and grocery stores get restored the fastest. 

 

There is a possibility that the pharmacies and  grocery stores may not be restored or rebuilt, for a long time.  Years...   Probably the biggest reason for that is that the insurance companies cannot take the risk of it happening to them again, in the same spot. I hope the stores you use will get restored/rebuilt, but if not that you can find alternate sources of medications your family needs. 

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8 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

Yes, we got five cartridges at a time, lasting two months. We are good for now. His pen needles need refill in a month. I hope pharmacies and grocery stores get restored the fastest. 

I’m a little further out in one of the smaller suburbs. If you have trouble finding his refills I’d be glad to check here.

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8 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

 

Sorry, I originally posted about curfew of The Twin Cities, but thought maybe people aren't interested, so I deleted it. I live one block from Lake Street for 20 years of my life in the US. I witnessed the transformation from a lifeless dump to a vibrant joy-giving, job-providing beautiful street. Mr. George Floyd's brutal murder has infuriated my city and the whole nation. We demand justice and real change. However, the righteous anger and protests have been hijacked and morphed into rioting, looting, burning. Seeing my Lake Street (and my city) destroyed with no grocery nor pharmacies and struggling with getting insulin for my son, we feel crushed. Dh and I break into crying multiple times a day. We moved to stay with my in-laws for a few days. We finally found insulin at their Walgreen's. The Target they looted and the Walgreen's they burned on Lake Street are my pharmacies. 

It is extremely sad. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

I am so so sorry!  And of course we are interested in what you have to post!  I came looking specifically for your posts last. Isn’t and this morning to see if you are ok.  
 

I am so glad you have a safe place to be.  

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My older sister (who disagrees with me on just about everything), lives close to the rioting. But she is in town here right now. She told me that the rioting has been fueled not just by Floyd's death,  but also years of corruption in the MPLS PD and by tension built up from the lock downs. I told her that perhaps the lock downs went too far and left so many people unemployed and desperate and the lock downs (Covid Lockdowns) need to end. She got upset with me for that. Even though she has been out shopping every single day (she has been here, where I live, not in MPLS, during all this) she still feels things should be shut down. 

Just curious as to anyone's opinions? I feel people have been pushed to the brink and this situation with this man was the final straw. My sister feels the Covid lock downs contributed to this, but continue to be worth it. (this is aside from the fact that I am outraged by what the MPLS PD did).

Also..anyone have a current map or knowledge of how far south the rioting went? As in...down Chicago...to the east at all? (2 blocks east, north of 50th).

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10 hours ago, Janeway said:

<snip>

Also..anyone have a current map or knowledge of how far south the rioting went? As in...down Chicago...to the east at all? (2 blocks east, north of 50th).

 

Areas and businesses hit hard by Chicago rioters: Loop (business area), River North, Magnificent Mile (Michigan Avenue) and the ritzy Oak Street boutiques. There may be more.

My son moved back into his apartment yesterday and fortunately did so before riots started. He lives one block north of Division bar area, where some rioting was, and two blocks from the Clark and Division CTA train stop. We live just north of the city and will be driving down there this morning to give him his two cats. I’m going to check out some of the areas there if it’s safe. Should be interesting.

ETA: I realize Janeway is talking about Minneapolis now. Regardless, all of the store windows on the first floor of my husband's workplace were smashed. This is a building in Chicago that occupies an entire city block. A lot of damage on many streets.

Edited by BeachGal
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1 hour ago, Janeway said:

 

Also..anyone have a current map or knowledge of how far south the rioting went? As in...down Chicago...to the east at all? (2 blocks east, north of 50th).


The Pizza Hut and the liquor store at 48th & Chicago reported damage.  

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Quote

Also..anyone have a current map or knowledge of how far south the rioting went? As in...down Chicago...to the east at all? (2 blocks east, north of 50th).

Here is a current map of damage.

 

 

 

37EF11CC-D09C-418B-811F-8414BFC73436.png

3E776F49-BEDB-41E3-BCBE-C6D3C932DA90.png

Edited by Gobblygook
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3 hours ago, Lanny said:

 

There is a possibility that the pharmacies and  grocery stores may not be restored or rebuilt, for a long time.  Years...   Probably the biggest reason for that is that the insurance companies cannot take the risk of it happening to them again, in the same spot. 

If it needs to be rebuilt then it takes a long time. If it’s mainly cosmetic damage like broken glass then it’s fast.

10 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

 I hope pharmacies and grocery stores get restored the fastest. 

Target, CVS and Walgreens in Oakland have learnt to board up their stores for subsequent days of protests. So they could continue their pharmacy business with board up display windows a few days later if they need to. Cleaning up glass shards take a few hours by a professional company dealing with broken windows. 

The Target in Oakland that had the sprinkler system activated would take longer since they need to take away the damaged goods and clean up the place, and do an audit of damages. 

The banks that were damaged might decide to close those locations for good this time since people are moving more to online transactions due to shelter in place. 

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@Lanny@mathnerd@sassenach@MEmama

https://abc7news.com/business/several-target-stores-closing-in-the-bay-area-amid-protests/6222309/

“In a statement online, Target says it's heartbroken by by the death of George Floyd and the pain it is causing communities across the country. However, it says at this time it has decided to temporarily close stores.

Target says employees impacted by store closures will be paid for up to 14 days of scheduled hours during store closures, including COVID-19 premium pay. They will also be able to work at other nearby Target locations.

Here is a list on Bay Area stores that are temporarily closing:


  • Alameda, CA
  • Bayfair San Leandro, CA
  • Central Berkley, CA
  • Central San Francisco, CA
  • College Park San Jose, CA
  • Colma, CA
  • East Palo Alto, CA
  • Fashion Island San Mateo, CA
  • Mountain View, CA
  • North Hayward, CA
  • Oakland, CA*
  • Oakland Emeryville, CA
  • Pinole, CA
  • Redwood City, CA
  • Richmond, CA
  • Serramonte Daly City, CA
  • SF Folsom and 13th St San Francisco, CA
  • South San Francisco, CA
  • Tanforan San Bruno, CA
  • University Ave Berkeley, CA
  • Walnut Creek, CA
  • Westlake Daly City, CA”
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2 hours ago, Janeway said:

My older sister (who disagrees with me on just about everything), lives close to the rioting. But she is in town here right now. She told me that the rioting has been fueled not just by Floyd's death,  but also years of corruption in the MPLS PD and by tension built up from the lock downs. I told her that perhaps the lock downs went too far and left so many people unemployed and desperate and the lock downs (Covid Lockdowns) need to end. She got upset with me for that. Even though she has been out shopping every single day (she has been here, where I live, not in MPLS, during all this) she still feels things should be shut down. 

Just curious as to anyone's opinions? I feel people have been pushed to the brink and this situation with this man was the final straw. My sister feels the Covid lock downs contributed to this, but continue to be worth it. (this is aside from the fact that I am outraged by what the MPLS PD did).

Also..anyone have a current map or knowledge of how far south the rioting went? As in...down Chicago...to the east at all? (2 blocks east, north of 50th).

I still think various levels of restrictions have been necessary (number of covid deaths would well have exceeded the damage at this point from the looting etc if you didn’t have them) but I do think that people being in lockdown and the massive unemployment is most likely contributing to the level of anger and frustration. 

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3 hours ago, Janeway said:

My older sister (who disagrees with me on just about everything), lives close to the rioting. But she is in town here right now. She told me that the rioting has been fueled not just by Floyd's death,  but also years of corruption in the MPLS PD and by tension built up from the lock downs. I told her that perhaps the lock downs went too far and left so many people unemployed and desperate and the lock downs (Covid Lockdowns) need to end. She got upset with me for that. Even though she has been out shopping every single day (she has been here, where I live, not in MPLS, during all this) she still feels things should be shut down. 

Just curious as to anyone's opinions? I feel people have been pushed to the brink and this situation with this man was the final straw. My sister feels the Covid lock downs contributed to this, but continue to be worth it. (this is aside from the fact that I am outraged by what the MPLS PD did).

Also..anyone have a current map or knowledge of how far south the rioting went? As in...down Chicago...to the east at all? (2 blocks east, north of 50th).

I am far too weary right now to respond adequately to this situation.  I think this is a simplistic view of the situation.   There is deep history with regards to Minneapolis PD.  The protests and riots have also been infiltrated by small organized band(s) of some sort of domestic terrorists.  I don't think that is uncommon during demonstrations and riots but this seems extremely organized and targeted.  And I get that is is multi facted.    Note that demonstrations are happening across the country at this point.  I do think the fact that covid is hitting our POC harder is not great either. But again, there are systemic system issues with racism that are part of that.  I think that is the rage and the frustration that is bubbling.  To say people would be less angry and frustrated if they could just go back to work or get their hair done is really anger inducing.  

Google Bob Krall if you're interested in Minneapolis PD history. He is Minneapolis PD federation president.  Don't get me wrong.  Frustration over the covid situation is not helping.  But again, weak national response has put us in a worse position than we might otherwise be.   I know many protesters were masked and trying to keep distances intact and local BLM leaders were encouraging that.  

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I read this morning that George Floyd the murder victim, and the police officer who killed him, both worked in the same Nightclub. Possibly there was "bad blood" between them, before Floyd was arrested on the forgery charge? 

It seems that there are people waiting for an excuse to riot, loot, vandalize, etc., after each one of these unfortunate situations where someone is killed while in police custody and then it becomes not a Memorial for the dead person, but an insurrection. And these situations seem to come up, every 12 to 24 months, somewhere in the USA.

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24 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Google Bob Krall if you're interested in Minneapolis PD history. He is Minneapolis PD federation president.

I just googled him. Holy cow! There's no wonder there are problems. 

"Citing the “killology” mentality, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey ultimately banned the training last year but the move infuriated Minneapolis Police Union President Lt. Bob Kroll. Shortly after the decision was announced, Kroll called the ban illegal and said that the union would continue to make the training available to any interested officers. “It’s not about killing, it’s about surviving,” Kroll said at the time. The attitude of survival, us against them, isn't conducive to a healthy police department.

According to this article

"Kroll, who has been accused of using excessive force and making racist remarks in the past, is standing behind his colleague as the public backlash mounts. “Now is not the time to rush to judgment and immediately condemn our officers,” he said on Tuesday, before the department fired Chauvin and three other officers who did not intervene in Floyd’s death."

http://www.citypages.com/news/bob-kroll-sat-down-with-a-local-jewish-activist-it-didnt-go-well/563847601

As Kroll walked him to the door, Stern did something he admits he's not proud of. With "four or five" union staffers around, Stern turned to Kroll and said, "You're an asshole."

Stern says Kroll, a "much larger man" than him, said, "Excuse me?" and walked right up to him, leaving Stern essentially at chest level to the police union head. 

"Say that again," Kroll said, according to Stern. "I dare you. I'm not wearing a body camera." 

Stern took the line as a direct threat, and immediately turned and left.

Kroll says he "can't recall the specifics" of what he said, but believes it was something along the lines of "Get the fuck off our property." He denies daring Stern to call him an asshole again, and says he never made any sort of threatening statement to Stern, who he now thinks was merely out to "start trouble" with the police.

 

This interview is from a year ago:

"During his fourth day as a warrant sergeant, Kroll was called to a scene that remains the record for most shots fired in a single incident in Minneapolis. He reminds us that officers are taught to "shoot to stop the threat and to shoot center mass." Kroll wishes relations with the community weren't strained by some "media and certain small groups."" And "give police the benefit of the doubt and let the facts play out." I think the time is past for giving the police the benefit of the doubt. This department seems to have hidden behind it too long.

When will his time end? According to the last article I quote, he's "hoping his second in command takes over when his term wraps." Answered my own question. His term ends in 2021

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27 minutes ago, Lanny said:

It seems that there are people waiting for an excuse to riot, loot, vandalize, etc., after each one of these unfortunate situations where someone is killed while in police custody and then it becomes not a Memorial for the dead person, but an insurrection. And these situations seem to come up, every 12 to 24 months, somewhere in the USA.

A lot of these issues are due to people not living in the area, but being bussed in from other areas. 80% of the Minneapolis arrests were from out of town. Interestingly enough, when I googled that, it's not accurate. I'm curious, though, where UNK is, in the twitter feed on the article. 

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1 hour ago, wilrunner said:

A lot of these issues are due to people not living in the area, but being bussed in from other areas. 80% of the Minneapolis arrests were from out of town. Interestingly enough, when I googled that, it's not accurate. I'm curious, though, where UNK is, in the twitter feed on the article. 

The governor did make that “80%” statement, but ultimately it did not prove to be true, at least as far as the initial arrests. 

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2 hours ago, Lanny said:

I read this morning that George Floyd the murder victim, and the police officer who killed him, both worked in the same Nightclub. Possibly there was "bad blood" between them, before Floyd was arrested on the forgery charge? 

It seems that there are people waiting for an excuse to riot, loot, vandalize, etc., after each one of these unfortunate situations where someone is killed while in police custody and then it becomes not a Memorial for the dead person, but an insurrection. And these situations seem to come up, every 12 to 24 months, somewhere in the USA.


The protests, even in their original form, are not about memorializing a dead person. They’re about calling attention to the fact that he was killed by a representative of the government as the latest in a series of police killing unarmed black people and expressing opposition to those actions of our city employees and how the incidents are handled by those responsible for supervising them.

Edited by Danae
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2 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

 To say people would be less angry and frustrated if they could just go back to work or get their hair done is really anger inducing.  

 

You think that is all that the shut down has done to people? They are in a tizzy over not getting their hair done? People have lost their jobs and their families, their businesses and livelihoods. Domestic violence and child abuse are at a high. People dying from not being able to get medical care because things like routing checks for cancer and "elective" heart surgeries are cancelled. For many people, everything they had to live for is gone. And we will see the lasting effects of the shut down for many years to come. Many experts are estimating the shutdown deaths to be higher than Covid deaths already weeks ago. And this will only get worse. To add to it, we might be able to postpone a lot of people getting this, but many believe everyone will get it eventually. It is one thing to let people quarantine themselves, but it is another thing to ban people from seeing their own parents when they are dying, running their own businesses, or anything else, to arrest someone for trying to do honest work to feed their children while letting dangerous sex offenders go. 

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15 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

 

Sorry, I originally posted about curfew of The Twin Cities, but thought maybe people aren't interested, so I deleted it. I live one block from Lake Street for 20 years of my life in the US. I witnessed the transformation from a lifeless dump to a vibrant joy-giving, job-providing beautiful street. Mr. George Floyd's brutal murder has infuriated my city and the whole nation. We demand justice and real change. However, the righteous anger and protests have been hijacked and morphed into rioting, looting, burning. Seeing my Lake Street (and my city) destroyed with no grocery nor pharmacies and struggling with getting insulin for my son, we feel crushed. Dh and I break into crying multiple times a day. We moved to stay with my in-laws for a few days. We finally found insulin at their Walgreen's. The Target they looted and the Walgreen's they burned on Lake Street are my pharmacies. 

It is extremely sad. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

I'm so sorry @JadeOrchidSong😢

This whole situation is heartbreaking. 💔 Stay safe. 

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16 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

 

Sorry, I originally posted about curfew of The Twin Cities, but thought maybe people aren't interested, so I deleted it. I live one block from Lake Street for 20 years of my life in the US. I witnessed the transformation from a lifeless dump to a vibrant joy-giving, job-providing beautiful street. Mr. George Floyd's brutal murder has infuriated my city and the whole nation. We demand justice and real change. However, the righteous anger and protests have been hijacked and morphed into rioting, looting, burning. Seeing my Lake Street (and my city) destroyed with no grocery nor pharmacies and struggling with getting insulin for my son, we feel crushed. Dh and I break into crying multiple times a day. We moved to stay with my in-laws for a few days. We finally found insulin at their Walgreen's. The Target they looted and the Walgreen's they burned on Lake Street are my pharmacies. 

It is extremely sad. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

So sorry. I have no words to offer except pray the city that is the home you created becomes again as you remember and bring you joy anew. ((Hugs))

Glad you have a soft landing place in your in-laws and family around. Please take care.

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3 hours ago, GoodGrief1 said:

The governor did make that “80%” statement, but ultimately it did not prove to be true, at least as far as the initial arrests. 

Correct. That's why I drew a line through it. I wonder how many were from Minneapolis vs. all of Minnesota. And I still wonder where UNK is.

From the quoted article:

Here's what the HCSO jail records show. There are 69 cases from Friday to Saturday that were categorized as "received by jail" as of about 11 am this morning. Of those, here's the state breakdowns:

MN56
UNK 5
IL3
ARK1
MO1
IA1
Fla1
MI1

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7 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

Correct. That's why I drew a line through it. I wonder how many were from Minneapolis vs. all of Minnesota. And I still wonder where UNK is.

From the quoted article:

Here's what the HCSO jail records show. There are 69 cases from Friday to Saturday that were categorized as "received by jail" as of about 11 am this morning. Of those, here's the state breakdowns:

MN56
UNK 5
IL3
ARK1
MO1
IA1
Fla1
MI1


UNK = Unknown

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16 minutes ago, Danae said:


UNK = Unknown

Thank you. That should have been obvious! I was coming up with University of Nebraska Kearney or United Kingdom, but they didn't fit. 

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On 5/30/2020 at 5:10 PM, JadeOrchidSong said:

With the curfew, though still people are out there, our National guards and police force have been able to hold out to stop violence. See my post (#4) down below.  

We can see looting from our front porch. DS8 closed the curtains so we can't see anymore. Not sure what's going to happen.

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10 minutes ago, EmilyGF said:

We can see looting from our front porch. DS8 closed the curtains so we can't see anymore. Not sure what's going to happen.

Stay safe!!!

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4 hours ago, Janeway said:

You think that is all that the shut down has done to people? They are in a tizzy over not getting their hair done? People have lost their jobs and their families, their businesses and livelihoods. Domestic violence and child abuse are at a high. People dying from not being able to get medical care because things like routing checks for cancer and "elective" heart surgeries are cancelled. For many people, everything they had to live for is gone. And we will see the lasting effects of the shut down for many years to come. Many experts are estimating the shutdown deaths to be higher than Covid deaths already weeks ago. And this will only get worse. To add to it, we might be able to postpone a lot of people getting this, but many believe everyone will get it eventually. It is one thing to let people quarantine themselves, but it is another thing to ban people from seeing their own parents when they are dying, running their own businesses, or anything else, to arrest someone for trying to do honest work to feed their children while letting dangerous sex offenders go. 

 

Can you provide links to some of the "many experts" who believe "the shutdown" has already killed more than 100,000 people? I'd be very interested to know the specific causes of "shutdown death," as well as how (and why) the CDC and every state department of health has managed to hide such a vast number of deaths. 

 

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6 hours ago, Corraleno said:

 

Can you provide links to some of the "many experts" who believe "the shutdown" has already killed more than 100,000 people? I'd be very interested to know the specific causes of "shutdown death," as well as how (and why) the CDC and every state department of health has managed to hide such a vast number of deaths. 

 

I don't know that there are more than 100,000 deaths "already."  I do know of many experts that are stating their own evide runce that DV, marriage breakups, psychotic breaks, longer-term-than-we=can-test-right-this-square-minute deaths are at least worth considering.  The sad part is that when I have posted these links, I have been shouted down.  People have already cemented their fears and opinions.  

My personal experience is not statistically relevant.  But I will state it anyway (and put up my plexiglass shield against the tomatoes):

I have personal friends how are pretty sure they have had CoVid.  No tests have come back positive, but the symptoms are there.

I have one friend who has had a psychotic break, one  friend who has had a marriage-breaking DV incident, many friends who have decided to postpone many medical intervention related to "odd chest pains" or "a funny mole on my ____."  

In October 2001, there weren't a lot of articles or experts talking about the consequences for first responders to the Twin Towers" either.  Time has told that tale.  It is not entirely stupid to anticipate what we cannot measure.

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Not to derail the thread but the correct comparison isn’t covid deaths versus lockdown death but the covid deaths that didn’t happen due to lockdown versus lockdown deaths.  

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Also you can’t really blame people choosing not to access medical care that remained open and accessible on lockdown.  That relates to fear of the virus and would most likely have happened lockdown or not.  Delay of elective surgery etc due to lockdown is different though.

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6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Also you can’t really blame people choosing not to access medical care that remained open and accessible on lockdown.  That relates to fear of the virus and would most likely have happened lockdown or not.  Delay of elective surgery etc due to lockdown is different though.

Yup.  And there was also a lot of fear and confusion that directed people's decisions or impressions.  I personally for once did not stick my head in the sand for once, and while I was legitimately not allowed to get a skin cancer checked, I also did not know that my chiropractor was still open for adjustments.  It was awfully hard to keep track of what was oginton...but the results still matter. 

 

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There was something interesting in one of the articles in the Google Feed on my phone last night. The first autopsy they did did not show that he died because of  Strangulation or Suffocation.  Possibly a subsequent autopsy will show that he died because of a Heart Attack or some other medical issue?

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5 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

I don't know that there are more than 100,000 deaths "already."  I do know of many experts that are stating their own evide runce that DV, marriage breakups, psychotic breaks, longer-term-than-we=can-test-right-this-square-minute deaths are at least worth considering.  The sad part is that when I have posted these links, I have been shouted down.  People have already cemented their fears and opinions.  

My personal experience is not statistically relevant.  But I will state it anyway (and put up my plexiglass shield against the tomatoes):

I have personal friends how are pretty sure they have had CoVid.  No tests have come back positive, but the symptoms are there.

I have one friend who has had a psychotic break, one  friend who has had a marriage-breaking DV incident, many friends who have decided to postpone many medical intervention related to "odd chest pains" or "a funny mole on my ____."  

In October 2001, there weren't a lot of articles or experts talking about the consequences for first responders to the Twin Towers" either.  Time has told that tale.  It is not entirely stupid to anticipate what we cannot measure.

What you have written seems completely valid and plausible. I don’t think Corraleno was questioning any of that. I think her question was to the claim in the post that she linked, stating that there had already been as many deaths caused by the lockdown as caused by Covid. I think it would be very difficult for 100,000 further deaths to have occurred and not be completely noticeable. 

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1 hour ago, Lanny said:

There was something interesting in one of the articles in the Google Feed on my phone last night. The first autopsy they did did not show that he died because of  Strangulation or Suffocation.  Possibly a subsequent autopsy will show that he died because of a Heart Attack or some other medical issue?

I noticed in a video that had a clear view, from before the arrest, that Mr Floyd seemed to stumble and even fell but was pulled back up, before anything happened where he was harmed by the officers. Also, my older sister tried to tell me he was alone and gave the cigarettes back and was just attacked. But in the video, he was in a car full of people and all had to get out of the car when he was stopped. 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/george-floyd-couldnt-breathe-before-he-was-pinned-down-cops-prosecutor-says-1507608

Edited by Janeway
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3 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I noticed in a video that had a clear view, from before the arrest, that Mr Floyd seemed to stumble and even fell but was pulled back up, before anything happened where he was harmed by the officers. Also, my older sister tried to tell me he was alone and gave the cigarettes back and was just attacked. But in the video, he was in a car full of people and all had to get out of the car when he was stopped. 

He wasn’t alone there was a second person in the car 

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59 minutes ago, Lanny said:

There was something interesting in one of the articles in the Google Feed on my phone last night. The first autopsy they did did not show that he died because of  Strangulation or Suffocation.  Possibly a subsequent autopsy will show that he died because of a Heart Attack or some other medical issue?

Even if he did suffer a heart attack or a medical episode it would be difficult to argue that wasn’t due to the way he was being held I would think.  

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I agree that the correct comparison is deaths that didn't happen due to lockdown with lockdown deaths.  

And much of the postponed medical intervention isn't due to the lockdown, it's a choice people made because they either didn't know they still could or they were afraid.   Even here in a hotspot, people are able to go to the emergency room for other things (I was there last week) like chest pains, and we have doctors and urgent cares still seeing various things.  

You don't think people would be afraid if (even more) massive numbers of people were dying and they felt the government was just ignoring it and not taking steps to help?   I agree that the lockdowns (which seriously are not very strict anyplace) weren't handled correctly but since we messed up the testing so badly, there weren't a lot of other choices.   

That said, some places that have had the most strict lockdowns had the least violence during the rioting.   I think the common factor is where the outside instigators went.

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