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theelfqueen

The convo I've had with several crisis schoolers

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The biggest shock to my crisis school friends seems to be that their kid cant just sit in front of a computer and work for hours. 

I have repeatedly had to tell parents of middle schoolers especially but kids of all ages, it is TOTALLY normal for a 12 year old to need scaffolding, hand holding and for you to just sit in the room with them. This is shocking news to them and somehow a huge comfort (to realize that there isn't something wrong with their kid). Anything like that you've observed as the "seasoned homeschooler" (dang I never feel like that is me!!!) ? 

Edited by theelfqueen
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Similar.  Friends are seeing me through new eyes.  All are surprised by how much parental time and effort it takes to get their kids through their schoolwork.  I do remind them that what I'm doing is actually easier than what they're doing - I get to choose what and how we learn, I was able to ease into it from preschool on, I've had years of practice, and I didn't get someone else's slap-dash hastily thrown together on-line program/curriculum expectations dumped into my lap on short notice while I'm still trying to manage a full-time job. 

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I totally agree with you about the scaffolding.  Even many high schoolers do better when the parent/teacher is nearby.  

Our local schools told teachers not to expect much, so I'm not surprised that I'm not seeing any shock from my suddenly-schooling friends locally. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a distinct sense of superiority from some.  After all, if their dc can get several days' worth of schoolwork done in just a few hours, they must be amazing students!  SOO smart!  "Really, Klmama?  Your student still has several WEEKS of school left?" (Never mind that theirs would, too, if the school year had continued as planned.)  Chuckle, chuckle, superior look my way, pitying glance at my dc, repeated comments about their oh-so-smart dc.  They don't want to hear anything that contradicts their new narrative.  Whatever.

 

 

 

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Yes totally one friend was convinced their was something terrible wrong with her son because he won't sit and do a packet of worksheets.  He is 5!  I told her my MDD didn't sit and do a worksheet until she was 8.  That for some kids moving aids learning not inhibits it.

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Yes.  Definitely.  It’s also what’s kind of wrong with the idea that both parents can continue working their 40-50 hour per week jobs from home while supervising kids homeschooling via zoom.  Homeschooling while working can work but needs some flexibility around hours and structure.

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1 hour ago, theelfqueen said:

The biggest shock to my crisis school friends seems to be that their kid cant just sit in front of a computer and work for hours. 

I have repeatedly had to tell parents of middle schoolers especially but kids of all ages, it is TOTALLY normal for a 12 year old to need scaffolding, hand holding and for you to just sit in the room with them. This is shocking news to them and somehow a huge comfort (to realize that there isn't something wrong with their kid). Anything like that you've observed as the "seasoned homeschooler" (dang I never feel like that is me!!!) ? 

Yep. I learned how to knit thanks to math lessons 4th grade through Geometry. 

Edited by Seasider too
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I'm another who has had this conversation several times now. Also, I've had to explain to friends how homeschool classes online usually meet once a week and that's plenty and to please not freak out if their schools have adjusted "class time" to reflect similar expectations. Most of them freaked out anyway.

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There's actually some science behind why kids can't sit in front of a computer all day long.  It is physically exhausting, especially when compressed data is involved (online teaching, lectures, videos of non-computer-generated items).  

The human brain interprets things in analog.  Computers deliver in digital format.  Analog is wave form; digital is "block" or "pixel" form...a discrete element.  When you listen to music on a CD, your brain does the work to convert it to analog--and most music CDs have been printed with "high resolution" digitizing...so the blocks are small, so the line more closely  resembles an analog wave...sort of like making a circle with really tiny straight lines...at some point, it is a circle.   

But when it isn't "high resolution", the wave is really lumpy and your brain has to do a lot more work to smooth the line into a wave.  (I could go into Spotify and Apple Music download options here, but that would be another rabbit hole).

Well, let's talk about classroom online--there is compression on both audio and video, and these days, there is a LOT of compression.  There has to be to shove all those bits through the internet capabilities available to most people (and it has to be pretty much lowest common denominator for broadest reach).  So here sits the kiddo, and his brain is working really hard already doing the conversion from digital to analog (on really big blocks)...and then there is the content that they are supposed to be learning on top of it all.  

It's exhausting.  

(It's part of what makes live music so magical, part of the reason for the rise of the return to vinyl--which has another problem now because there were only a couple of systems in the world that could accurately reproduce vinyl, and one of them burned up awhile back...so that is a dying craft...). It's part of the reason there is a rise in film photography.  And it is part of the reason that online will always be more work than live classes.  

You're welcome.  :0)

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The crisis schoolers I know are freaking out and frazzled.  I don't blame them for feeling that way.  What I have to offer doesn't seem to be what they are looking for, however.

The ones that have asked me for help give me crazy eye when they hear my suggestions. I asked one to tell me more about their schedules, school requirements, and which parent would be doing the bulk of the teaching, so I could give more specific advice. Crazy eyes! "I just need some worksheets and websites to keep him busy". Oh, ok. Can't help you there.  

I had two people call in the middle of the day, requesting video chats that were really just virtual babysitting. "Can your son talk to my kids? I have so much work to do and I just need to keep my kid busy for awhile". Um...we have schoolwork, and my 11 year old doesn't have much to say to your 5 year old. 

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13 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

There's actually some science behind why kids can't sit in front of a computer all day long.  It is physically exhausting, especially when compressed data is involved (online teaching, lectures, videos of non-computer-generated items).  

The human brain interprets things in analog.  Computers deliver in digital format.  Analog is wave form; digital is "block" or "pixel" form...a discrete element.  When you listen to music on a CD, your brain does the work to convert it to analog--and most music CDs have been printed with "high resolution" digitizing...so the blocks are small, so the line more closely  resembles an analog wave...sort of like making a circle with really tiny straight lines...at some point, it is a circle.   

But when it isn't "high resolution", the wave is really lumpy and your brain has to do a lot more work to smooth the line into a wave.  (I could go into Spotify and Apple Music download options here, but that would be another rabbit hole).

Well, let's talk about classroom online--there is compression on both audio and video, and these days, there is a LOT of compression.  There has to be to shove all those bits through the internet capabilities available to most people (and it has to be pretty much lowest common denominator for broadest reach).  So here sits the kiddo, and his brain is working really hard already doing the conversion from digital to analog (on really big blocks)...and then there is the content that they are supposed to be learning on top of it all.  

It's exhausting.  

(It's part of what makes live music so magical, part of the reason for the rise of the return to vinyl--which has another problem now because there were only a couple of systems in the world that could accurately reproduce vinyl, and one of them burned up awhile back...so that is a dying craft...). It's part of the reason there is a rise in film photography.  And it is part of the reason that online will always be more work than live classes.  

You're welcome.  :0)

I also read an interesting article on zoom fatigue. If I could remember where I read it I would link it. 

Basically it pointed out that online meetings are demanding because of the high level of eye contact between participants. IRL meetings, people take turns talking and listening, but not necessarily staring right into other people’s faces nonstop. It’s mentally draining.  

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24 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

There's actually some science behind why kids can't sit in front of a computer all day long.  It is physically exhausting, especially when compressed data is involved (online teaching, lectures, videos of non-computer-generated items).  

The human brain interprets things in analog.  Computers deliver in digital format.  Analog is wave form; digital is "block" or "pixel" form...a discrete element.  When you listen to music on a CD, your brain does the work to convert it to analog--and most music CDs have been printed with "high resolution" digitizing...so the blocks are small, so the line more closely  resembles an analog wave...sort of like making a circle with really tiny straight lines...at some point, it is a circle.   

But when it isn't "high resolution", the wave is really lumpy and your brain has to do a lot more work to smooth the line into a wave.  (I could go into Spotify and Apple Music download options here, but that would be another rabbit hole).

Well, let's talk about classroom online--there is compression on both audio and video, and these days, there is a LOT of compression.  There has to be to shove all those bits through the internet capabilities available to most people (and it has to be pretty much lowest common denominator for broadest reach).  So here sits the kiddo, and his brain is working really hard already doing the conversion from digital to analog (on really big blocks)...and then there is the content that they are supposed to be learning on top of it all.  

It's exhausting.  

(It's part of what makes live music so magical, part of the reason for the rise of the return to vinyl--which has another problem now because there were only a couple of systems in the world that could accurately reproduce vinyl, and one of them burned up awhile back...so that is a dying craft...). It's part of the reason there is a rise in film photography.  And it is part of the reason that online will always be more work than live classes.  

You're welcome.  :0)

I have noticed if I listen to too many podcasts or audible books I feel quite tired and sometimes end up with a headache.  I figured I was crazy but maybe not.  Maybe there’s actually a reason.  
 

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10 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I also read an interesting article on zoom fatigue. If I could remember where I read it I would link it. 

Basically it pointed out that online meetings are demanding because of the high level of eye contact between participants. IRL meetings, people take turns talking and listening, but not necessarily staring right into other people’s faces nonstop. It’s mentally draining.  

Although from my experience with my kids on zoom they don’t do this.  They fiddle around, change the background, flash the phone around the room so everyone can see the messy house or mum in PJS stand on their heads or run off to get toys to show their friends and leave everyone with a close up view of the arm of the couch.  

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

Although from my experience with my kids on zoom they don’t do this.  They fiddle around, change the background, flash the phone around the room so everyone can see the messy house or mum in PJS stand on their heads or run off to get toys to show their friends and leave everyone with a close up view of the arm of the couch.  

Oh well yeah, I imagine it is different at the elementary level. 😂

I always let my kids play with legos and color and such during read aloud time. But thinking back, I knew home schoolers who would get frustrated because their kids wouldn’t just sit still and only listen. 

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And to be fair, I will tell you my personal goofball story:  My son was in a private school for K and 1.  I sewed 15 quilts each of those years.  So, when I brought my son home because he was NOT thriving, I set up our little school room, with his desk at a 90* angle from my sewing machine.  He would study while I would sew!  I had his little math books and pencils and worksheets and lessons and I would tell him about math while I quilted!  Yeah!

Ha.
Hahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I have a lot of mercy for these folks.  I never meant to be a homeschooler, and a lot of these people didn't mean to either.  And at least I had choice in the matter, and was doing what was best for my offspring.  That may or may not be the case for any of these families.   

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Since mid Match I have been shepherding jr high and high school kiddos who I formerly had in my computer lab (in-person) study hall. It is incredibly exhausting for me and for the kids! We only have school for 2 more weeks but I call some of my kids several times per day to try to keep them going. This past weekend the seniors graduated, all 34 of them in our tiny district. It was surreal, and beautiful. Ceremonies were conducted on the football field with one vehicle-full per graduate, all lined up in a horseshoe arrangement. I think it was the best graduation I have ever attended. Tomorrow back to my 7th -grade through HS Juniors...I imagine some of them will need to work through the summer to earn credit. My position will probably be eliminated through budget cuts but I want to still work with those who have started with me...we will see how this goes. Taking this a day at a time.

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I haven't really run into anyone too worked up about online school here, but I think it is because the local schools set the bar super low. Elementary kids had their year essentially end in March. No expectations for schooling. Similar for middle school. High schoolers do have online work, but as long as they regularly sign in/engage, they are guaranteed the same grade that they had at the end of third quarter (they can improve that grade though.)

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2 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

But when it isn't "high resolution", the wave is really lumpy and your brain has to do a lot more work to smooth the line into a wave.  (I could go into Spotify and Apple Music download options here, but that would be another rabbit hole).

@Patty Joanna  Please go down this rabbit hole!  I'd love to hear your thoughts about this since so much of our music these days IS from downloads.  PS. Your explanation of analog-digital processing was enlightening, so thank you.  

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5 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Oh well yeah, I imagine it is different at the elementary level. 😂

I always let my kids play with legos and color and such during read aloud time. But thinking back, I knew home schoolers who would get frustrated because their kids wouldn’t just sit still and only listen. 

When they were preschool age, I tried to let mine play with Lego while I read aloud, but my now-10yo would narrate and add sound effects to whatever he was doing, louder than I could read.  One time, I asked him to keep his voice down, and he said, “But mom, if I’m too quiet I’ll be able to hear you read the story!”  Argh!

Now I read aloud while they are shoving food in their faces.  And “He Who Would Like to Ignore the Stories” is now an avid reader and spent part of the weekend writing his own book.  Muahahahhaha.

He also built a very complicated rubber band gun out of LEGO pieces last week, so I guess I didn’t inhibit his skills in that regard, either!

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1 hour ago, BarbecueMom said:

When they were preschool age, I tried to let mine play with Lego while I read aloud, but my now-10yo would narrate and add sound effects to whatever he was doing, louder than I could read.  One time, I asked him to keep his voice down, and he said, “But mom, if I’m too quiet I’ll be able to hear you read the story!”  Argh!

Now I read aloud while they are shoving food in their faces.  And “He Who Would Like to Ignore the Stories” is now an avid reader and spent part of the weekend writing his own book.  Muahahahhaha.

He also built a very complicated rubber band gun out of LEGO pieces last week, so I guess I didn’t inhibit his skills in that regard, either!

Yes, I've been sharing the "they can't talk over me if their mouths are full" theory of homeschooling with a lot of crisis schoolers, lol. We do reading at breakfast and/or lunch 🙂

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9 hours ago, klmama said:

I totally agree with you about the scaffolding.  Even many high schoolers do better when the parent/teacher is nearby.  

Our local schools told teachers not to expect much, so I'm not surprised that I'm not seeing any shock from my suddenly-schooling friends locally. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a distinct sense of superiority from some.  After all, if their dc can get several days' worth of schoolwork done in just a few hours, they must be amazing students!  SOO smart!  "Really, Klmama?  Your student still has several WEEKS of school left?" (Never mind that theirs would, too, if the school year had continued as planned.)  Chuckle, chuckle, superior look my way, pitying glance at my dc, repeated comments about their oh-so-smart dc.  They don't want to hear anything that contradicts their new narrative.  Whatever.

 

 

 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. This is 😡🤬😡🤬

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I'm seeing three reactions. Either people are enjoying homeschooling, using this as an opportunity to try something they've always been interested in OR I'm seeing people who think being around their own children this much is unnatural and awful and saying they dont' care if school is open or safe, they want to drop them off there tomorrow, or those who just are too busy/struggling with their own online work to have much of an opinion on anything other than getting through the current moment. 

I'd like to say that second group isn't the majority, but it's close. 

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12 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

The human brain interprets things in analog.  Computers deliver in digital format.  

Fascinating. Do you know where I can read more? 

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1 hour ago, katilac said:

Fascinating. Do you know where I can read more? 

I will ask my son for the search terms.  He is the one who reads this sort of thing.  He tells me about it, using big words.  

He also reads things like this--for fun:  a doctoral thesis discussing "the difference in the use of microtones in ___ (some jazz trumpet player) and ___ (some new wave musician).  By the way, he was what one would have classified as a non-reader in high school.  

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14 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Oh well yeah, I imagine it is different at the elementary level. 😂

I always let my kids play with legos and color and such during read aloud time. But thinking back, I knew home schoolers who would get frustrated because their kids wouldn’t just sit still and only listen. 

My dh is currently reading Infinite Jest by Wallace outloud to my 19 and 16 year old sons. This was my 19yo's request because he is back from MIT and remembers so fondly his dad reading to him. The book he chose, however, is quite a doozy!  So last night dh read for 2 hours while my older constructed a very complex origami bird and my younger practiced sword fighting with a 2 meter long fabric tube! He only hit the hanging light twice, which was pretty good for 2 hours of movement!

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2 hours ago, lewelma said:

My dh is currently reading Infinite Jest by Wallace outloud to my 19 and 16 year old sons. This was my 19yo's request because he is back from MIT and remembers so fondly his dad reading to him. The book he chose, however, is quite a doozy!  So last night dh read for 2 hours while my older constructed a very complex origami bird and my younger practiced sword fighting with a 2 meter long fabric tube! He only hit the hanging light twice, which was pretty good for 2 hours of movement!

❤️

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3 hours ago, lewelma said:

My dh is currently reading Infinite Jest by Wallace outloud to my 19 and 16 year old sons. This was my 19yo's request because he is back from MIT and remembers so fondly his dad reading to him. The book he chose, however, is quite a doozy!  So last night dh read for 2 hours while my older constructed a very complex origami bird and my younger practiced sword fighting with a 2 meter long fabric tube! He only hit the hanging light twice, which was pretty good for 2 hours of movement!

I need a love emoji

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