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Imperial College, London (an excellent world class institution in area of epidemiology):

 


“Our estimates suggest that the epidemic is not under control in much of the US: as of 17 May 2020, the reproduction number is above the critical threshold (1.0) in 24 [95% CI: 20-30] states. Higher reproduction numbers are geographically clustered in the South and Midwest, where epidemics are still developing, while we estimate lower reproduction numbers in states that have already suffered high COVID-19 mortality (such as the Northeast). These estimates suggest that caution must be taken in loosening current restrictions if effective additional measures are not put in place.

We predict that increased mobility following relaxation of social distancing will lead to resurgence of transmission, keep- ing all else constant. We predict that deaths over the next two-month period could exceed current cumulative deaths by greater than two-fold, if the relationship between mobility and transmission remains unchanged. Our results suggest that factors modulating transmission such as rapid testing, contact tracing and behavioural precautions are crucial to offset the rise of transmission associated with loosening of social distancing.”

 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-05-21-COVID19-Report-23.pdf

Edited by Pen
Bold added to emphasize relevant area of contemplated trip
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I have read the entire thread. FWIW, our family has had to cope with celiac (severe for my sister, and I have a milder intolerance) and lactose intolerance (my son) and chronic conditions (sister with

The kids can’t go without mom because...? Dad would have to take responsibility for their meals and other needs? Might have his activities curtailed? Sorry to be hard on your dh but it honestly s

Do not let yourself be bullied or guilted into something you don't want to do. You deserve more respect from your dh than you are getting. You've told him it's fine to go without you.  If my dh didn't

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

At my husband's suggestion, I called an elder at our church who is also a medical doctor.  He agrees with my dh that the risk is low.  He thinks that people are being pretty good about social distancing, masking, etc. 

So far that is three medical doctors don't think it's a big deal. Why can't I feel peace about it? I was up praying much of last night, asking God to show me where I was going awry with this--where I might be a slave to fear.

The elder suggested that we pray together and try to hear each other better. So I could use prayer that we would do that.

But then how does your DH and your elder explain all the people actually catching it? We spiked back up to 1,200 new cases in one day on the 20th here in Florida.  So....hearing it is "low risk" probably is zero comfort to those 1,200 people just in ONE DAY who caught it in the state you are going to. What makes the people going on this vacation with you and your family lower risk than those people?

And living in the same house does NOT equal social distancing!

 

Edited by Ktgrok
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37 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

 I agree that the odds of infection are low (I would think under 20%), but the consequences of getting infected are potentially quite high--along the lines of reasons people have homeowners' insurance that covers fire. Most people's houses don't catch fire; many house fires can be put out with little trouble, especially if you've prepared by having an extinguisher and an alarm, and so much the better if there's a sprinkler system and a good fire department nearby; but some fires destroy the structure and contents, and occasionally someone dies in one. Therefore, we have insurance, cook with care, and don't play with matches.

 

Yes!  Absolutely!

 

I don’t know what the odds are since it probably depends on so many factors like what each of the relatives who will be gathering has been doing and where they were and how they traveled.  I know I have been taking a look at known cases by zip code (even though I know they aren’t accurate, but better than nothing) before I have planned trips for groceries or veterinary care or whatever in cities I can get to. I don’t have any exact way of calculating odds, but I figure that the areas with fewer known cases may also have fewer unknown walking carriers and thus be somewhat better—along with masks, distance, hand washing, etc. 

 

on fire analogy: 

 

Also many of us don’t leave a relatively fire safe home situation and drive into a wildfire zone during a bad wildfire season just for fun.  

Edited by Pen
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14 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

But then how does your DH and your elder explain all the people actually catching it?

Maybe Lack of faith?

14 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

We spiked back up to 1,200 new cases in one day on the 20th here in Florida.  So....hearing it is "low risk" probably is zero comfort to those 1,200 people just in ONE DAY who caught it in the state you are going to. What makes the people going on this vacation with you and your family lower risk than those people?

Maybe  they feel that those statistics are “brainwashing” and fear mongering? Even false to scare people?

Like some people on the Contact Tracing or other such threads here seem to do?

14 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

And living in the same house does NOT equal social distancing!

 

No. It is not. 

A bunch of people coming together in a vacation house seems much like the ski chalet situations that sparked a number of clusters before lockdowns. 

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2 hours ago, cintinative said:

At my husband's suggestion, I called an elder at our church who is also a medical doctor.  He agrees with my dh that the risk is low.  He thinks that people are being pretty good about social distancing, masking, etc. 

So far that is three medical doctors don't think it's a big deal. Why can't I feel peace about it? I was up praying much of last night, asking God to show me where I was going awry with this--where I might be a slave to fear.

The elder suggested that we pray together and try to hear each other better. So I could use prayer that we would do that.

Here’s the thing. It’s not your place to tell your dh what to do. It’s natural that you would be worried. So what can you do for yourself while he does what he needs to do? You might feel better if you take the trip with him. We’ve been through 4 states in the last few days and places are doing great. Venture out. Maybe the docs are right.

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3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I actually don't think doctors are particularly useful here. The average doctor I've talked to is quite bad at statistics and intimidated by complicated math. Have they treated any COVID-19 patients themselves? 

Good question. I don’t know

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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Here’s the thing. It’s not your place to tell your dh what to do. It’s natural that you would be worried. So what can you do for yourself while he does what he needs to do? You might feel better if you take the trip with him. We’ve been through 4 states in the last few days and places are doing great. Venture out. Maybe the docs are right.

What places are you referring to - states as a whole, stores and restaurants you've visited? What do you mean by "doing great"? 

Edited by katilac
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Do not let yourself be bullied or guilted into something you don't want to do. You deserve more respect from your dh than you are getting. You've told him it's fine to go without you.  If my dh didn't respect me on this,  we'd have a marital problem. 

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4 hours ago, cintinative said:

At my husband's suggestion, I called an elder at our church who is also a medical doctor.  He agrees with my dh that the risk is low.  He thinks that people are being pretty good about social distancing, masking, etc. 

So far that is three medical doctors don't think it's a big deal. Why can't I feel peace about it? I was up praying much of last night, asking God to show me where I was going awry with this--where I might be a slave to fear.

The elder suggested that we pray together and try to hear each other better. So I could use prayer that we would do that.

Hmmm. Maybe someone who is a counselor not attached to your church would be a more neutral consultant. 

You might want to spend some time in Romans 14-15. 

FWIW, there have been a couple of times in my marriage when I have had to take the you go but I can’t stance. The one time dh got mad about it, he finally admitted that it was because he didn’t want to have to explain my absence - because he was embarrassed to have to do so. 

Edited by Seasider too
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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

 

Life getting back to normal is... frightening. Because that means people aren't taking this all that seriously. 

So you’re saying every state following their state guidelines and reopening is being unwise? 

Whatever. Things are reopening and life is great outside your house. Ohio hasn’t even reopened state parks yet when there’s NO evidence of that being a risk. It’s so easy to get caught up in their negativity and political butt covering. Ask why your state parks aren’t open. 

Just now, square_25 said:

 

Yeah. That's just it. I would feel much more like they were "doing great" if people were wearing masks and were being careful to sit outside when eating. 

Huh??? Private businesses can choose to require masks. Food is outside or spaced. There’s a lot of intention being taken in every state.

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I can check again but my news email last night said our state parks are still closed. It’s outrageous and unwarranted. Lots of people are out and they’re following the rules. We need liability reform so remaining businesses can open. 

We left the day our gov lifted the stay at home and are returning today. Had a great trip. Lots of people being careful and getting back to life. 

For op, you staying home won’t help your dh stay safe but going might be a good mental health break for you. 

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Just now, Dotwithaperiod said:

Are you saying it would be a good mental health break for her if she went, or good for her if she stayed home?

lol good either way I suppose but getting out of Ohio could be good. You don’t realize how negative Ohio is till you get out a while.

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Just now, Dotwithaperiod said:

Hey, I know how being in a certain state can make you miserable. I moved out of the good old boy, conservative run hell-hole known as Texas and never looked back.

But i can’t picture going on a vacation while being concerned with catching a virus while living in close quarters with half a dozen people who I have no idea if they’re acting sensibly, and to do it all with a husband who doesn’t appear to take my feelings or decisions seriously to be in any way, shape, or form to constitute a good mental break, lol.

I wouldn’t stay with them. Get the dh to agree to stay elsewhere. I mean I wouldn’t stay in the house. Go yes, stay there no.

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I googled to be sure, and it seems Ohio state parks have been open for awhile (May 7), and camping is open this weekend. It looks like parts of Hocking Hills are still closed until mid-June, while they are working on some of the trails, but other parts of it are open.

Edited by Storygirl
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1 minute ago, Storygirl said:

I googled to be sure, and it seems Ohio state parks have been open for awhile (May 7), and camping is opening this weekend. It looks like parts of Hocking Hills are still closed until mid-June, while they are working on some of the trails, but other parts of it are open.

Oh good that must have been the article I was seeing! Thanks for finding that. 

I think when we get liability reform passed things will improve. You see it with the way businesses are handling things. So many hoops and issues.

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2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Here’s the thing. It’s not your place to tell your dh what to do 

That goes both ways. And she told her husband he was free to go, how is that telling him what to do? 

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OP, I'm really sorry about the strife with your husband. My family is not planning any vacation this summer, and we usually do go somewhere. Our extended family is just a couple of hours in-state, and we don't know when we will see them again, which is hard. I'm not sure we will see them at all this summer, even though we usually have several family gatherings.

I would not go to the event that you describe. If your husband and kids decide to go without you, I think you should try to find some way to do something fun for yourself while they are gone. Something that will build you up, so that you don't spend as much time worrying. (I would worry).

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41 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I can check again but my news email last night said our state parks are still closed. It’s outrageous and unwarranted.

They are open and FYI, they have always been open for hiking. They just haven't been open for camping or boating until May 21st. A friend's family goes hiking at least once a week at Caesar Creek and has ever since the original stay at home order.  😃

Edited by cintinative
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Oregon, which despite lack of testing, and probably some early cases, but not necessarily ones officially confirmed seems to be doing pretty well so far on reopening.

There was a request by governor and multiple mayors including particularly mayors of ocean cities that people stay nearish to home and support local businesses, use local outdoors areas this holiday weekend, rather than traveling.  

I am not sure if that is being abided by.   But I expect it would help, and also help contract tracing if hot spots develop, not to have big beach crowds or many people leaving their usual local areas. 

 

Edited by Pen
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6 hours ago, cintinative said:

Two of them were his personal doctors: his pulmnologist and general practice (GP) doctor.

Presumably they looked at his chart? I hope so?  My understanding is that the Sarcoidosis is not really a concern.  However, that still leaves about five other things (or more) that they are apparently also considering to be trivial.   

I did tell the elder/doc about all the issues. He wasn't phased.  

DH's reasoning is simply that the risk is low. His impression is that given current restrictions that we will have essentially no chance of getting it on the vacation. Even the doc I talked to today seemed to think that as long as we washed hands and didn't touch our faces we would be okay (I did not argue with him about it, I didn't see the point).

I am a lot more skeptical about the ongoing compliance of people. I am seeing a lot of people breaking social distancing, and we are only a couple weeks into opening up. I am watching the numbers to see if there is an effect. If there is, then my position is strengthened. If not, I would think my dh's would be.

 

Hand washing does nothing.  Almost all transmission is airborne.  In my view, a lot of doctors and medical personnel don't know much.

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22 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Hand washing does nothing.  Almost all transmission is airborne.  In my view, a lot of doctors and medical personnel don't know much.

 

I thought that was interesting also. My husband told me the other day about a CDC report about influenza (??) that basically indicated that handwashing and cleaning surfaces had a very minimal affect on reducing the spread.  I felt like that just strengthened the argument that shared spaces (plane, house, etc.) were more of a concern, but I haven't looked into this with any depth.

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As to us, dh and are travelling next weekend to a state park at the shore. We are staying at the hotel but wint be eating inside restaurants. We will get food to go or eat outside.  We plan to go to the beach early morning and right before dusk.  Otherwise we will be going on walks, biking and taking a boat trip or kayaking. 

In late August, we are going on a big road trip to areas that are not hot spots.

What op describes would be a hard no for me.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Here’s the thing. It’s not your place to tell your dh what to do. It’s natural that you would be worried. So what can you do for yourself while he does what he needs to do? You might feel better if you take the trip with him. We’ve been through 4 states in the last few days and places are doing great. Venture out. Maybe the docs are right.

 

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

For op, you staying home won’t help your dh stay safe but going might be a good mental health break for you. 

Um, going somewhere she feels is unsafe, for good reason, and 20 hours on the road with a husband she's upset with is not going to be a mental health break, lol. 

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

lol good either way I suppose but getting out of Ohio could be good. You don’t realize how negative Ohio is till you get out a while.

I have family there who are happy and not saying anything negative at all. They have been getting take out, going for walks, are now eating at places outdoors, been out on their boat, planned to go camping but got rained out, etc. 

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Oh good that must have been the article I was seeing! Thanks for finding that. 

I think when we get liability reform passed things will improve. You see it with the way businesses are handling things. So many hoops and issues.

Where you see "hoops and issues" many see "taking their customer's safety and their employees safety seriously". Taking safety less seriously is not what I would consider things improving. 

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17 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

That's fascinating. I saw the thing about surfaces, too. I wonder what handwashing does help with? Bacteria, maybe? I'm sure it's something. 

Handwashing does break apart the virus, it's just that some people are saying airborne seems a much more common way to spread it than through touch (why yes, I did just write 'than touching yourself' and quickly backspaced, lol). 

I mean, it doesn't hurt, and they are certainly other things to catch! 

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I have read the entire thread. FWIW, our family has had to cope with celiac (severe for my sister, and I have a milder intolerance) and lactose intolerance (my son) and chronic conditions (sister with MS, and I have EDS). In addition, I suspect I had coronavirus in early March and I have a friend who had a pretty severe case and is still recovering.

There is absolutely no way at all that I would do this trip as described, and furthermore, I would not consent for my teenagers to go either. 

Because frankly, not one of the people who think it's fine to cluster together in one crowded condo during a pandemic are going to be careful about masks or social distancing. I would end up trying to negotiate and remind about the common sense measures that keep us safe, and my concerns would be minimized. The stress of living in that position is a nightmare. There would be no hope that my teenagers could stand up to the whole crowd on those common sense measures, especially if their father is pooh-poohing them.

And not one of the people who don't cook much and don't live with celiac are going to be as careful as they need to be.  Especially if they actually consent to not eat in restaurants and are prepping in the shared kitchen. Which guarantees that the celiac sufferer will suffer. BTDT.

There is no way that I would ask young teens to shoulder the weight of managing several states away if a parent becomes seriously ill. 

And it is unconscionable to assume that it is okay to bring an infection of a deadly disease with limited medical mitigation options to your brother's family. That is emphatically NOT loving your neighbor as yourself.

And the financial fallout could be a nightmare if you are trapped that far from home for hospitalization.

Your husband is making assumptions about what may or may not happen that are absolutely unsupported. He has absolutely no guarantee that he would be either asymptomatic or experience a mild case. There are people far healthier than him who have had to be put on a ventilator. The science on this is really clear, both in terms of risk and in terms of what reduces risk. Those places that implement aggressive risk management experience lower incidence of infection and fewer fatalities, and individuals who scrupulously follow the standards for washing hands, social distancing, and wearing masks in crowded places and/or indoor public places are at significantly lower risk of infection. Right now, I am fairly certain there is not one state in the US that meets the CDC standards for reopening. That means infection risk is high in many, many places.

The only way that this would possibly be acceptable is if I rented a separate vacation home for my family so I could control meals for my own family and not share bathrooms with the big group, AND, more importantly, if I had confidence that my husband and teenagers would be 100% compliant with social distancing, sanitation, and masks. If I thought this would be an ongoing argument characterized by the repeated refrain to "loosen up," I would not go. Period. Because that's torture.

 

 

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My family lives 1200+ miles away.  If I am to see them in the next year, it will involve either a 2.5+ hour plane ride (longer with boarding and waiting at the airport), or a 22+ hour car ride. 

While I am concerned about picking up the virus, my bigger concern is that I cannot easily resolve a problem so far from home.  What if I went to Chicago to see family and couldn't get back for some reason? Flight gets cancelled, sudden strict lockdown in either state that means I can't get home, someone gets sick and we have to quarantine for who knows how long, the hotel has to temporarily close to decontaminate...There's a lot of weird stuff that has to be considered right now. I have zero solutions for any of that, which means we can't visit until some part of this dumpster fire of covid-19 changes for the better. It's one thing to get sick 2 hours from home.  It's a whole different thing to get sick 12+ hours from home.

Your husband and in-laws plan stinks because they aren't considering that anything could go wrong and they have no backup plan in the event something did go pear-shaped.  Ther'es no way I would go, and I would throw down hard about taking the kids. 

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Does the church elder know that your husbands plan if he does get ill is to drive home, against the law, exposing who knows how many others on that 20 hour cross country drive? Does your elder fell that is honest behavior, and appropriate in the sense of "loving your neighbor"? 

Because I'd hope that might change the dynamic a bit - that your husband is not just willing to expose himself and his family, but also anyone between there and here if he gets sick. 

And what about your mom who is high risk - how often do you usually see her? Can you quarantine for 2 weeks after the trip before seeing her?

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I think you should do whatever you are comfortable with, but I will give my take on it. I know many people will disagree with me, which is fine. People don't need to tell me how wrong I am, I could easily be wrong, I do not claim to know all. This is simply my theory.

I think it will be healthier to get it in the summer and get it now than to get it next winter, in the middle of flu season and all the other stuff that goes on with the winter season. My asthma is awful during the winter but not summer. If I were to get Covid in January, I would be extremely worried. Flu, colds, everything, seems to be less severe in the summer.  Because of my asthma, I was already self distancing since fall this past year. This was the first year in a long time that I did not get sick. Also, second waves are naturally generally even worse than the first. I would go on the trip. The air, the exercise, the uplifting spirits of being with your family, all that makes it worth it. I think even if he gets something, it won't be as bad as if he gets in during the next flu season.   Look at this study...and there is another from the CDC saying that it cannot be spread easily on surfaces. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32405162/?fbclid=IwAR19R1Aq_8jYPYnvjjCfxBfw3xtwfLWmh2OX1Ql-ZVsIHUhhFLgsOAHkf-4

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19 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I think you should do whatever you are comfortable with, but I will give my take on it. I know many people will disagree with me, which is fine. People don't need to tell me how wrong I am, I could easily be wrong, I do not claim to know all. This is simply my theory.

I think it will be healthier to get it in the summer and get it now than to get it next winter, in the middle of flu season and all the other stuff that goes on with the winter season. My asthma is awful during the winter but not summer. If I were to get Covid in January, I would be extremely worried. Flu, colds, everything, seems to be less severe in the summer.  Because of my asthma, I was already self distancing since fall this past year. This was the first year in a long time that I did not get sick. Also, second waves are naturally generally even worse than the first. I would go on the trip. The air, the exercise, the uplifting spirits of being with your family, all that makes it worth it. I think even if he gets something, it won't be as bad as if he gets in during the next flu season.   Look at this study...and there is another from the CDC saying that it cannot be spread easily on surfaces. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32405162/?fbclid=IwAR19R1Aq_8jYPYnvjjCfxBfw3xtwfLWmh2OX1Ql-ZVsIHUhhFLgsOAHkf-4

Except of course, we have have treatments in the winter that we don't have now. Ones that could make a huge difference. And getting it while stuck for 2 weeks in a hotel, possibly him in the hospital with the 15 yr old with no where to go, is worse than getting it at home. 

And I'm not one to worry about surfaces as much as just airborne transmission, while living in the same house as people who are going out and about, have been on a plane and in airports, etc. It is widely believed that household transmission is the highest risk. 

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I had somehow originally missed the gluten intolerance issue.  

Putting together gluten intolerance with CV19, I would not let the children go.

Husband will presumably do as he likes.

I do think the question of whether your pastor or church elder or ? is supportive of idea of driving home even if sick and exposing everyone along the way is an important question. It would affect how I would feel about my church.

 

 I guess probably your husband’s whole family would be traveling back to their homes regardless of whether sick or exposed— which could happen accidentally due to presymptomatic or Asymptomatic cases, but it sounds like his family will do it on purpose even if they know they are sick.  😟.   So they would potentially expose several different airplane travel groups etc., and don’t even feel bad about such a choice, I guess. 

 

Even if they don’t get sick and aren’t carriers, this type of approach is no doubt not at all unique to your husband, his family, and maybe your church leaders too. 

And it is a reason I would not travel at this time—other than emergency need to do so.  It is bad enough to be dealing with potential accidental transmission of infection from people trying their best. But too many people seem like they are not even going to make efforts to follow the quarantine if exposed, isolate if sick rules. And I expect such people won’t be careful in other ways either. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Pen said:

 I guess probably your husband’s whole family would be traveling back to their homes regardless of whether sick or exposed— which could happen accidentally due to presymptomatic or Asymptomatic cases, but it sounds like his family will do it on purpose even if they know they are sick.  😟.   So they would potentially expose several different airplane travel groups etc., and don’t even feel bad about such a choice, I guess. 

 

 

 

I hadn't even thought - those flying back - they are doing temparature checks - what will they do if they get ill? They won't be able to fly home even if they want to disregard the rules. Unless, of course, they take ibuprofen or whatever, and fake wellness? And that begs the question, how many others on the plane on the way THERE are doing that, and exposing them?

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2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I hadn't even thought - those flying back - they are doing temparature checks - what will they do if they get ill? They won't be able to fly home even if they want to disregard the rules. Unless, of course, they take ibuprofen or whatever, and fake wellness? And that begs the question, how many others on the plane on the way THERE are doing that, and exposing them?

 

I have heard that airport temperature checks have not helped much. In February there was a cnn report that zero cases had been found that way. 

 

 I guess CV19 infected people who fly either aren’t running fevers or take an antipyretic fever reducer. 

 

And I don’t know if it is being used now.  I think perhaps not

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/05/09/white-house-push-airport-fever-screenings-overrules-cdc-scientists/3097158001/

 

but maybe will be in summer? 

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2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Does the church elder know that your husbands plan if he does get ill is to drive home, against the law, exposing who knows how many others on that 20 hour cross country drive? Does your elder fell that is honest behavior, and appropriate in the sense of "loving your neighbor"? 

Because I'd hope that might change the dynamic a bit - that your husband is not just willing to expose himself and his family, but also anyone between there and here if he gets sick. 

And what about your mom who is high risk - how often do you usually see her? Can you quarantine for 2 weeks after the trip before seeing her?

 

No, they don't know. But the elder didn't respond to my concerns about getting sick while out of state at all, so maybe he didn't give that aspect thought.

I really haven't seen my mom in about eight weeks. I had to drive my dad to a auto repair shop to get his car the other day and that is the first time I have actually seen her.  She is so medically vulnerable (she has an open wound on her back that she has had since july 2019) that I have not been physcially with my parents. That said, I want to be available if they need me.

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16 hours ago, katilac said:

Handwashing does break apart the virus, it's just that some people are saying airborne seems a much more common way to spread it than through touch (why yes, I did just write 'than touching yourself' and quickly backspaced, lol). 

I mean, it doesn't hurt, and they are certainly other things to catch! 

Lol on “touching yourself”...didn’t think it was *that* kind of virus...

I thought the whole point of hand washing/sanitizing was to  avoid bringing the virus (or any virus/bacteria) to your face and mucous membranes, or to transmit the virus to another person’s hand (like in hand shaking), which they then transfer to their face/mucous membranes. 

To my way of thinking, it does seem like hand washing/sanitizing is a better choice than not, COVID-19 or not, for most people. (Maybe not if you have unusually fragile skin, say.) It seems to me that, for my own precautions, washing and sanitizing hands, especially when I must venture out, is easy enough to do and so I might as well. 

Also, it seems to me that more barriers to transmission is preferable to fewer. 

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1 hour ago, cintinative said:

 

No, they don't know. But the elder didn't respond to my concerns about getting sick while out of state at all, so maybe he didn't give that aspect thought.

 

This explains what is required if ANYONE in the vacation home gets COVID, is suspected of having COVID, or was exposed to someone with it. Mind you, they define close contact as within 6 feet of someone for more than 10 minutes. Your husband needs to answer questions as to what the would do if any of the group shows symptoms. And if the answer is break quarantine/isolation and go home, or go to brothers, or go shopping, or use a public restroom or grocery store or plane, he should realize his church elder isn't going to back him up on that kind of dishonesty, (I'd hope). 

Edited by Ktgrok
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4 minutes ago, Quill said:

Lol on “touching yourself”...didn’t think it was *that* kind of virus...

I thought the whole point of hand washing/sanitizing was to  avoid bringing the virus (or any virus/bacteria) to your face and mucous membranes, or to transmit the virus to another person’s hand (like in hand shaking), which they then transfer to their face/mucous membranes. 

To my way of thinking, it does seem like hand washing/sanitizing is a better choice than not, COVID-19 or not, for most people. (Maybe not if you have unusually fragile skin, say.) It seems to me that, for my own precautions, washing and sanitizing hands, especially when I must venture out, is easy enough to do and so I might as well. 

Also, it seems to me that more barriers to transmission is preferable to fewer. 

Yes. I am still going to be washing my hands.

 

on “touching yourself” — I would not be quick to assume that it is not also “that” kind of virus

I have seen some early indications that it **is** also potentially sexually transmissible. I don’t have links. Sorry. But the virus was in different bodily fluids and secretions at various points and potentially any mucous membranes could be vulnerable. I don’t think we know enough yet. 

Just a few months ago it was being said it wasn’t transmitted person to person at all. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

This explains what is required if ANYONE in the vacation home gets COVID, is suspected of having COVID, or was exposed to someone with it. Mind you, they define close contact as within 6 feet of someone for more than 10 minutes. Your husband needs to answer questions as to what the would do if any of the group shows symptoms. And if the answer is break quarantine/isolation and go home, or go to brothers, or go shopping, or use a public restroom or grocery store or plane, he should realize his church elder isn't going to back him up on that kind of dishonesty, (I'd hope). 

 

I would think she should check that with church leader rather than assuming he would not back the husband up on breaking quarantine, isolation and so forth.  I don’t at all think that caution by pastors and others can be assumed. 

 

Did you mean there to be a link to rules? If so I cannot see it. 

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21 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I would think she should check that with church leader rather than assuming he would not back the husband up on breaking quarantine, isolation and so forth.  I don’t at all think that caution by pastors and others can be assumed. 

 

Did you mean there to be a link to rules? If so I cannot see it. 

oops https://www.scdhec.gov/infectious-diseases/viruses/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/frequently-asked-questions-covid-19

 

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I think I am more likely to go to my counselor if I want further input. I just don't think the elder and I are on the same page as far as perceived risk with COVID, and because of that, I think we are also going to see the perceived potential consequences very differently.  

 

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@Ktgrok

what is the best way for me to stay abreast with Florida's numbers?  I am so used to Ohio's website with 21 day trends, etc. I couldn't find that on FL's website but maybe I just don't know where to look?  

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1 minute ago, cintinative said:

@ktgrok what is the best way for me to stay abreast with Florida's numbers?  I am so used to Ohio's website with 21 day trends, etc. I couldn't find that on FL's website but maybe I just don't know where to look?  

https://fdoh.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/8d0de33f260d444c852a615dc7837c86

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1 minute ago, Jen500 said:

 

Is there someplace I can access data on hospitalizations (by day and trends)?  I found an article in a local FL newspaper that has that data, so it must be somewhere. Maybe it's right in front of me?

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30 minutes ago, cintinative said:

 

Is there someplace I can access data on hospitalizations (by day and trends)?  I found an article in a local FL newspaper that has that data, so it must be somewhere. Maybe it's right in front of me?

Sorry, I don't know if or where that information is available.

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