High School/College Math and Science (x-posted)

[Staceyshoe]

Ds15 was homeschooled years ago but has been in private school for a few years.  Given the current circumstances, we may not enroll him in the fall.  I'm starting to explore option for a Plan B.  Math and science are often hard to find a good fit because he is radically accelerated in both.  He completed Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra this year.  Any thoughts about math options for next year?  He's been taking advanced high school science classes for several years but has not had chemistry, and we've talked about possibly AP Chemistry for next year.  I do not have the ability to lead him in math or science, but he is autodidactic (though he prefers direct instruction).  What options do you recommend for him?  We're not interested in dual enrollment if there are any other options.  If you have honors level high school options that you love for other subjects, I'm open to hearing those as well.  He's very talented academically, but writing is his weakness (probably average to above average).  He also struggles with organizational skills and time management. 

[daijobu]

Has your student already studied counting and probability or number theory?  

AP chemistry taught by Mr. Moskaluk at PAH is terrific for an auto-didact who wants access to a master teacher to explain concepts as needed.  

[mathmarm]

Does he have a particular interest?

Differential Equations

Discrete Mathematics

Intro to Analysis

Statistics

Numerical Analysis

Business Calculus

Consumer Mathematics (a course that all young people should study for a couple of years before aged 18, IMO)

Math for Liberal Arts

He might also take a semester and work on a math project(s).

Are there any topics in the high school math continuum that he is weaker or unfamiliar with? Perhaps a term working skipped chapters from Geo. Trig or Calculus?

[8filltheheart]

I think the problem you are going to run into is that most of the quality courses are already going to be full.  Has he already taken chemistry and only wants AP?  Connie's honors chemistry courses is excellent and she has the option of taking it as self-graded (all videos/assignments, answers provided.)  http://www.clovervalleychemistry.com/   Thinkwell has an AP chemistry course but it will not align with the AP exam bc it is outdated for the current exam, but it is an advanced chem course or a 2 semester college course equivalent. (I suspect they are pretty much the same course with a few different topics thrown in for the older AP version.) https://www.thinkwell.com/products/chemistry

MOOCs?  

Stanford Online High School? https://onlinehighschool.stanford.edu/course-catalog?time=1589981224858

 

[gstharr]

31 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I think the problem you are going to run into is that most of the quality courses are already going to be full.  Has he already taken chemistry and only wants AP?  Connie's honors chemistry courses is excellent and she has the option of taking it as self-graded (all videos/assignments, answers provided.)  http://www.clovervalleychemistry.com/   Thinkwell has an AP chemistry course but it will not align with the AP exam bc it is outdated for the current exam, but it is an advanced chem course or a 2 semester college course equivalent. (I suspect they are pretty much the same course with a few different topics thrown in for the older AP version.) https://www.thinkwell.com/products/chemistry

MOOCs?  

Stanford Online High School? https://onlinehighschool.stanford.edu/course-catalog?time=1589981224858

 

My 9th grader is wrapping up Thinkwell Ap Chemistry. TW Honors Chemistry is the full 2 semester college course. The AP class is the college class with a few chapter,  mostly near the end of the honor's class,  omitted. I know several who did very well  on the AP exam after using TW AP Chem as their primary prep. Never heard  about being outdated for current exam.  But, I would imagine that it is not the subject matter that is at issue.  Probably, that TW quizzes and tests are nearly all multiple choice.  AP Chem and AP Calc are shifting to more free response.    We are planning to start AP prep with Princeton/Barron/5 Steps when now remote schooling ends for the summer. . I'll update after he does a couple of AP practice tests as to how well he was prepared with TW.

[8filltheheart]

7 hours ago, gstharr said:

My 9th grader is wrapping up Thinkwell Ap Chemistry. TW Honors Chemistry is the full 2 semester college course. The AP class is the college class with a few chapter,  mostly near the end of the honor's class,  omitted. I know several who did very well  on the AP exam after using TW AP Chem as their primary prep. Never heard  about being outdated for current exam.  But, I would imagine that it is not the subject matter that is at issue.  Probably, that TW quizzes and tests are nearly all multiple choice.  AP Chem and AP Calc are shifting to more free response.    We are planning to start AP prep with Princeton/Barron/5 Steps when now remote schooling ends for the summer. . I'll update after he does a couple of AP practice tests as to how well he was prepared with TW.

The main issue with Thinkwell's courses is that they have not updated for format or for subjects where it might make a difference, content.  Students will need to self-study format.  Not that that is a big deal, but AP courses incorporate that into their courses.  AoPS didn't use to teach AP BC format.  I don't know if they do now or not.  So, it isn't unusual for kids to self-study the test procedures/types of questions/format, etc.

[Black-eyed Suzan]

I have no info for you, but wanted to wave and say I remember you. Welcome back! ☺️

[Staceyshoe]

On 5/21/2020 at 9:07 PM, Black-eyed Suzan said:

I have no info for you, but wanted to wave and say I remember you. Welcome back! ☺️

Thank you!  It's been quite a journey, but it's nice to be here again!

[Staceyshoe]

On 5/21/2020 at 5:46 PM, square_25 said:

 

Hmmmmm. How much linear algebra was there in multivariable calculus? Has he done probability/statistics or number theory of any sort? 

 
He completed both Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra.  They were separate math subjects but he completed both at his B&M school this year.  He has not taken stats or number theory (at least nothing with that title).  He took a "Math Analysis" class a few years ago that may have had some of that content.  We are considering AP Stats this year because it is an easy class to find.  He hasn't taken Differential Equations or Discrete Math yet either.  If you can recommend a specific Number Theory, Differential Equations, or Discrete Math class, I'm all ears.   TIA!

[gstharr]

Coursera has a couple of free discret math classes.  here is one: https://www.coursera.org/learn/discrete-mathematics  No opinion--my kid not there yet.

[seaben]

To my mind you've reached the point where dual enrollment makes the most sense. I know that you said you wanted to avoid that but it would be useful for both placement and potentially credit.  What's your plan for college if you don't go that route and are asked to potentially repeat classes?  Also qualified instructors are realistically only at the college level beyond where you mention. 

Part of what happens next also depends on whether your son is planning to be a math or physics major.  Most engineering degrees would probably be fully satisfied by going onto differential equations.  

But the natural math major progression is to move onto real/complex analysis  and modern algebra.

 

 

[Staceyshoe]

On 5/29/2020 at 3:12 PM, square_25 said:

Art of Problem Solving has number theory and discrete math classes :-). 

I'm curious about the linear algebra, because you can go pretty deep into that, or you can not. Any idea what he's covered? 

The Linear Algebra course was based on the Linear Algebra class taught at Purdue U - using the same textbook, test, etc.  I assume it was complete.  They finished all the topics in the course/text.  Thanks for the suggestions of AOPS.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Staceyshoe

[Cake and Pi]

Stanford Pre-Collegiate, maybe? Expensive, but still cheaper than Stanford Online High School. Beyond multivariable calculus and linear algebra, they have modern algebra, real analysis, complex analysis, diff equ, and partial diff equ. They also have several physics courses for after AP Physics C. Applications for the fall semester don't close until mid-August. 

https://ulo.stanford.edu/

[Staceyshoe]

On 5/31/2020 at 8:37 AM, square_25 said:

Mind linking the class?

It was at a brick-and-mortar school for advanced learners.  I haven't homeschooled him for the past 4 years but am considering it again because of the Covid situation.

[Staceyshoe]

3 hours ago, square_25 said:

I meant the Purdue class. 

I don't know much about the Purdue class.  These are the textbooks used in the class ds took:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1107177901/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/193642004X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[gstharr]

On 5/20/2020 at 3:16 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

The main issue with Thinkwell's courses is that they have not updated for format or for subjects where it might make a difference, content.  Students will need to self-study format.  Not that that is a big deal, but AP courses incorporate that into their courses.  AoPS didn't use to teach AP BC format.  I don't know if they do now or not.  So, it isn't unusual for kids to self-study the test procedures/types of questions/format, etc.

As discusssed above, my new 10th grader took TW AP Chemistry.  When all our summer plans got wiped out, we are doing a redo with CTY AP Chemistry (12 weeks/ teacher) for the summer.  The CTY lessons are TW based--same video, and questions.  .  However, the value added by CTY  is that there are teacher produced questions, and more, importantly, graded lab reports.   Now that he completed his 2nd week of classes, my opinion is TW is very good for fundamental chemistry subject matter.   However, TW's all multiple choice format is a weakness.  And, the lack of lab instruction-- that would probably be a glaring weakness if he were to straight from AP to a more advanced college class-- will keep us from using TW for biology.  But,  I remain a fan of  all TW math. 

[Staceyshoe]

On 6/12/2020 at 12:01 PM, gstharr said:

As discusssed above, my new 10th grader took TW AP Chemistry.  When all our summer plans got wiped out, we are doing a redo with CTY AP Chemistry (12 weeks/ teacher) for the summer.  The CTY lessons are TW based--same video, and questions.  .  However, the value added by CTY  is that there are teacher produced questions, and more, importantly, graded lab reports.   Now that he completed his 2nd week of classes, my opinion is TW is very good for fundamental chemistry subject matter.   However, TW's all multiple choice format is a weakness.  And, the lack of lab instruction-- that would probably be a glaring weakness if he were to straight from AP to a more advanced college class-- will keep us from using TW for biology.  But,  I remain a fan of  all TW math. 

This is very helpful.  It is possible ds will do an online AP Chemistry this year.  It sounds like CTY is a good option for that class.  Do you know whether there are other AP Chem classes of comparable quality?  

[daijobu]

AP chemistry taught by Mr. Moskaluk at PA Homeschoolers is excellent.  You'll see many old posts about him on these boards.  My dd earned a 5 her freshman year and enjoyed the class.  

[8filltheheart]

19 minutes ago, daijobu said:

AP chemistry taught by Mr. Moskaluk at PA Homeschoolers is excellent.  You'll see many old posts about him on these boards.  My dd earned a 5 her freshman year and enjoyed the class.  

Absolutely, but it is unlikely that there are any openings in his classes.

[daijobu]

On 6/24/2020 at 2:39 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

Absolutely, but it is unlikely that there are any openings in his classes.

 

That's interesting; I didn't know the class ever filled.  (My daughter joined the class one month into the school year.)  I just checked and you can still complete an application, but that's not a guarantee there's still space.  

[8filltheheart]

7 hours ago, daijobu said:

 

That's interesting; I didn't know the class ever filled.  (My daughter joined the class one month into the school year.)  I just checked and you can still complete an application, but that's not a guarantee there's still space.  

I followed your link.Definitely different,  Back when ds took the class, it filled up within a day or so in early March and IIRC, it was a side job for him.  He is an amazing teacher and if the OP can register with him for AP chem at this time of yr, that would be a definite way to go for a solid AP class.