Your plan if exposed to Covid19?

[matrips]

I like to be prepared. If one of our family is exposed to covid or is sick, I want a plan ready for what to do.

so what supplements/meds and dosages and what purposes would these supplements serve? When would you seek out a hospital vs staying at home?  Would you try to get tested ASAP and ask for hydroxychloraquine to prevent the virus from spreading in your body? I’ve been impressed by the doctors who have used this successfully as an early intervention.  Especially that one Texas doc who used it at his nursing home.

i have ideas based on all the various threads, but was hoping to get it in one place.

[Carol in Cal.]

Zinc lozenges, sucked under the tongue every few hours during the day, for 3-4 days.  This would be in the hopes of killing a lot of the virus while my body figures out how to fight it.

Lots of sun exposure to increase vitamin D (ongoing, but more).  Ditto steeped ginger, also ongoing, but more.

These herbs I got from my acupuncturist that supposedly worked in China to keep healthcare workers protected.  For two weeks.  (I have enough on hand for longer, but the licorice root messes up your potassium/sodium balance after a while, and two weeks is the longest I would be comfortable.)

Mucinex--the high dose one--to keep mucus minimized--at the beginning and as long as I felt the need.

That's all in the hopes of not getting it.

If I had symptoms, I'd add pulse oximeter monitoring, Prilosec, and probably Zithromax.  I'd request the test, and I'd request oxygen to use at home.  I would also request a rescue inhaler and maybe lung steroid meds.  I think I could probably get those.  I'd like to think I could get the malaria drug, but this is CA and it's hard to get here.  If I had the strength, I'd ask a naturopath for IV vitamin C.  My NP has moved her practice some distance away from me, so that's unlikely to be reasonable if I feel like something the cat dragged in.  I would define a very clear set of circumstances under which I would want DH to get me to the hospital, in writing, and also which hospitals I would prefer.  I'd have to hope they would not make me lie on my stomach.  That would make me drown in reflux, quite literally.  So some kind of communication of that would be important.

I have already gone over my beneficiaries thoroughly just in case.  They were fine, but it's good to check now and then.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[wathe]

I'm a frontline HCW.  I've thought about this quite a lot and have a plan:

We have a bedroom (with en suite bath)  ready to go for self-isolation.  All personal items have been cleared out of this room, linens stocked etc, so it's ready to go at a moment's notice.

Pulse oximeter, thermometer, supply of tylenol ready to go.

Dishes used by the sick person will go into a bucket of bleachy water just outside  the door.  The sick person only ever touches the inside door handle, never the outside handle.

The non-sick person doing the sick person's laundry will mask and glove and hand-wash.  (ETA - we have enough linen and pj's that we'll be able to avoid laundry for a pretty long time)

If the sick person is too sick to do basic self-care or needs nursing care, then they go to hospital.

We  are all already taking vitamin C and vitamin D.  That will stay the same if sick.

No special medical treatments at home.  Specific treatments (hydroxycholoquine, remdesivir etc) are only being used in trials here.  They are not otherwise prescribed for COVID. 

Sick person will communicate with the rest of the household by cell phone/texting, 2-way radio, an old baby monitor, or talking through the closed door.  I'm sure we'll figure out which of these works best in real time.

The room is on the ground floor.  If visual contact is needed, then we can see each other through the window.

ETA - I already sleep prone.  The sick person will self prone as much as possible.  That's a super-low risk, potentially high reward "treatment" that almost anyone can do.

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by wathe

[Reefgazer]

2 hours ago, matrips said:

I like to be prepared. If one of our family is exposed to covid or is sick, I want a plan ready for what to do.

so what supplements/meds and dosages and what purposes would these supplements serve? When would you seek out a hospital vs staying at home?  Would you try to get tested ASAP and ask for hydroxychloraquine to prevent the virus from spreading in your body? I’ve been impressed by the doctors who have used this successfully as an early intervention.  Especially that one Texas doc who used it at his nursing home.

i have ideas based on all the various threads, but was hoping to get it in one place.

I know everyone is talking about a vaccine in 12-18 months, but I am shit-sure that won't be ready for injection into my arm by then, even if I were willing to take a relatively untested vax.  So, most of us will eventually be infected with this disease and should have some idea of how they will handle it.  We have a home that allows us to isolate a sick person with a separate bathroom, bedroom, etc., so that's our first defense against another family member getting it.  Beyond that, I won't go to the doctor or hospital at all unless I cannot breathe and feel my life is in danger.  What can they do for me that I can't do at home?  If I am that sick that I feel I need a doctor, I am sure they will test me when I go in, otherwise, I won't get the test.  I'll rest, keep my fluid intake up, and pay attention to my oxygen saturation levels.  This plan will change if a documented and clearly effective treatment appears in the scientific or medical journals.

[Pen]

9 hours ago, matrips said:

I like to be prepared. If one of our family is exposed to covid or is sick, I want a plan ready for what to do.

We had a dry run which was probably the nasty adenovirus.  

Most difficult here for isolating a sick person is house is an old small farm cottage with only one bathroom in our house.  Second is small bedrooms with curtains rather than doors.  3rd is dog acting as a traveling self propelled fomite. (Next illness, rule I want is for sick person to clean hands and put on a mask before cuddling dog. If that can be. ) But we would do what we can.

Fresh air for people. Windows open/ air in room(s) especially of sick person.  (Easier in warmer weather.) 

sunshine if there is any much

Air filter. 

Cleaning.

mask wearing.  

etc

 

Quote

so what supplements/meds and dosages and what purposes would these supplements serve? 

(Will hope to return to this tomorrow)

the same things I am already taking as to vitamins and supplements, but I would take C up to tolerance level, and increase several others

Herbal teas (for hydration as well as the herbal benefits) green tea, ginger tea , 

chai tea

Herbal tinctures

 

 

Quote

When would you seek out a hospital vs staying at home?  

I would seek medical care/hospital if O2 were below ____.  95%|90%. Or if pulse rate got very fast.  Ideally I would want home O2, and hope that would keep me from needing hospital at all.  

Or if blood issues seemed to be a problem, that could be a reason to seek hospital. 

Quote

Would you try to get tested ASAP

I don’t know what we would encounter now with wider test availability.  I would try to get a test, particularly if it could arrive to me, instead of needing to drive to city. 

Quote

and ask for hydroxychloraquine to prevent the virus from spreading in your body? I’ve been impressed by the doctors who have used this successfully as an early intervention.  Especially that one Texas doc who used it at his nursing home.

I might try for Hydroxychloroquine plus zinc.  Yes. Though I have Quercitin plus Zinc without having to fight for it. 

 

If in hospital, possibly the MATH protocol.  

 

I might try for nitric oxide therapy — though it might be hard to fight for it if sick enough to need it. ☹️

Some of the experimental therapies such as PDX (?) look interesting, but I don’t think I’d be able to get that. 

 

Quote

i have ideas based on all the various threads, but was hoping to get it in one place.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Pen

[JennyD]

Exposed or actually sick?

If exposed, we would do light social distancing in the apartment for two weeks.  Exposed person would get their own room, eat separately, use a separate bathroom, and we'd all wear masks inside for the duration.  

If anyone in the house ever shows any symptoms of Covid, that person goes into isolation in the master bedroom and we'll seek medical help right away.  The death rate where we are (not the US) is very low so whatever they are doing seems to be working.  They are doing contact tracing here so our contacts would be notified but I would certainly do that myself right away, too, just to make sure.  I saw an interview with an emergency room doctor here who strongly recommended lying on your stomach and trying to shift position frequently.  

I see that hydroxychloroquine is still in the US news a lot but AFAIK it's not being used much here any more.  They are experimenting with other therapeutics.  

[Pawz4me]

Just exposure, not symptoms?

We'd self quarantine at home. If all of us were exposed we'd hang out together as usual, otherwise I guess we'd isolate the exposed person. That would be relatively easy to do with our layout. We have a pulse oximeter, so I guess we'd use that and a thermometer a few times a day.

I started DS on Vitamin D a few weeks ago. Beyond that I doubt we'd add anything else. I already get D with my calcium, and I take some C. DH doesn't do supplements unless his doctors instruct him to. He has health issues that make taking any medications or supplements definitely not a DIY, willy nilly thing. Hugely bad idea.

We'd try to eat well, get plenty of sleep, gentle exercise, laugh every day. We'd try not to stress about it (easier said than done, I'm sure).

We would not specifically seek out hydroxychloroquine. There's no good evidence for it being helpful that I've seen, and evidence that it can be very harmful. DS would probably be okay taking it, but not DH (again--existing medical issues) and I don't know if it would be advised with the current biologic medication I'm on. If it were offered by a medical provider I'd want to consult my rheumy first about potential interactions, and get his advice. If I were going to ask for any specific medication it would probably be remdesivir. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Pawz4me

[Pawz4me]

FWIW--

Dr. Vin Gupta, assistant professor at University of Washington, was just on a morning show. And he said "No doctor of any repute would prescribe hydroxychloroquine. Case closed."

(He was referring to prescribing it for Covid 19, of course.)

[Carrie12345]

I do have isolation plans based on whomever gets sick, but the reality is that, by the time we know any of us is exposed, all of us will have been exposed.  Still, I’m sure we’d separate as much as possible.

And then I’d call our doctor(s) to discuss, based on our individual symptoms and overall health.  I’m good at researching and advocating for myself and my family, but I did not go to medical school.

[Pawz4me]

16 minutes ago, peacelovehomeschooling said:

Thank you for this!!!!   Plaquenil is a good drug, for some things.  It is NOT for Covid 19!   I am on it for chronic hives and it is fantastic.  It is also used quite successfully in Lupus patients.  The last time I spoke to my immunologist she told me that they are starting to have some trouble getting it for patients.   That really upsets me when it has not been proven to be successful in Covid patients, but is successful in other diseases, yet those patients are having issues getting it due to a lot of misinformation and now just plain wrong information.   I am incredibly fortunate I was able to get my 3 month refill,  but am concerned that when it is time for the next refill I may not be able to get it or get the full supply.   This is a drug that I depend on and absolutely must have....as do many many many other people. 

Absolutely it's a good drug. I have RA and would take it if my rheumy advised doing so, following his advice regarding monitoring for potential side effects. But for Covid 19 . . . no.

I saw my rheumy last month and he said he's had all sorts of problems trying to get it for his patients who need it. It's massively shameful and totally irresponsible what POTUS has done pushing it for Covid, especially given what the studies have shown. Absolutely shameful.

[Guest]

If one of us has a known exposure (meaning, not symptomatic, but known or likely exposure), I plan to isolate that person within the house in pretty much the same way as we did when dd returned from Europe. The person remains in a bedroom with attached bath as much as possible for two weeks, or, if symptoms appear, until they have made it through the illness. Food and other needs are brought to this person; the attendant is masked and gloved. Phone is used to text requests. If the exposed person leaves the quarantine space, they must mask. If this person were actually sick, they would not leave the quarantine space. 

For treating myself or another person displaying symptoms, Tylenol, Vit D, monitor with pulse oximeter, monitor temp, person lies prone as much as possible. I personally would not seek hydroxycholoquine for the reasons already mentioned. Person or myself treats at home unless SoB or other symptoms are getting beyond what can be managed at home. 

 

[Laura Corin]

The person would go into the master bedroom and have food delivered, using the attached bathroom for seven days if asymptomatic.  We all take Vit D and that wouldn't change.  If symptomatic, I would call for advice if the symptoms lasted more than 7 days or worsened.  Otherwise - fluids and paracetamol as necessary. 

Other people in the house would not go out for 14 days (if originally contacted person is asymptomatic) or 14 days beyond the symptoms if symptomatic.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Laura Corin

[MEmama]

We don’t have a master bedroom/ bath layout and only one full bath, so full isolation wouldn’t be happening in my home. If one of us were exposed, though, we all would be, so I’m not sure isolation would be terribly useful. I can create an extra bed in case either DH or I get sick.

We wouldn’t take anything extra unless prescribed via telehealth, or of course if hospitalised. I bought some flu medication back in Feb just in case, but we don’t pin our hopes on unproven miracle drugs or dietary supplements. 

I suppose it’s pretty obvious if hospitalisation is required. Both DS and DH are particularly at high risk so we would go as soon as it seemed needed. We trust our doctors and medical teams and would put ourselves in their hands without hesitation. 

[Pawz4me]

29 minutes ago, peacelovehomeschooling said:

I had forgotten it was also good for RA.  You are right, it absolutely must be monitored.  I have to have a thorough eye exam every 6 months.  In fact, my immunologist wouldn't start me on it until I had an eye exam and she gets all the reports from my ophthalmologist because she wants to be sure that my eyes are okay.    I hope that you don't need it, but glad you are willing to take it if recommended.  Just be sure to see your eye dr every 6 months.   I know that it has been proven to extend the life of Lupus patients by quite a few years (and keep them healthier!). 

 

Thanks. I'm already on a medication that I believe is considered a much "bigger gun" than hydroxychloroquine. So I kind of doubt I'll ever be able to step down to it. But who knows? I hope you don't have any trouble with your supply. My AI issues cause me to get occasional small hives, and they're miserable. I can't imagine having huge ones!

Edited May 19, 2020 by Pawz4me

[Bambam]

We actually had a family member who had suspected COVID in mid-late March. No testing here except for high risk cases, so she was never tested. 

Isolated person to one bedroom and one bathroom (fortunate for us at one end of the hall - no one else lived down that hall).
All food was served on disposable plates/bowls/utensils. Hot tea was made regularly and served in disposable Styrofoam cup with lid (person drinks a lot of hot tea). A little honey was added to tea. Cold drinks were offered in washable cup with lid. Fruit was continually made available (in a little Styrofoam cup!) to try to increase fluid intake.
Person was assigned one end of table in breakfast nook (closest to her end of the house) where she could do her online schooling as able. She was encouraged to go outside at least once a day, door was opened, everyone out of her path, door not shut so she could push it open with foot and return to her area, and I would close the door. She was encouraged not to spend all day in bed laying down (hence the end of the table that allowed her to be in the room but at the far end away from everyone else). If she would have been limited to her room, she would have in bed all day.  I always had a snack available close to her in case she got hungry - cheerios, grapes, PB graham crackers, stuff like that. 

We also had an Oximeter - which was good, because as bad as she felt/acted/reported, I probably would have tried to get her into the hospital. Because I knew her O2 levels were still okay (94/95), I wasn't as concerned. 

I did take her on evening drives because she was so very miserable. She put on a mask and sat in the back passenger seat. We would drive around and look at the spring wildflowers, horses, deer, cows, dogs, whatever. This served two purposes - she had to walk out to the car and it provided a mental health refresher. 

I wiped down all commonly touched surfaces throughout the house 1-2 times/day. I washed my hands so much they started to dry out and had to use moisturizer through the day. 

Supplements (for her and me)
Vitamin D3 (I've been taking 5000IU for years, my levels run slightly over 50, she's been taking 1000IU for maybe a year?)
Vitamin K2 (both been taking for some time)
NAC
Ester C + additional Vitamin C (either tablets or Power Pak (like Emergen-C with extra B Vitamins) - Ester C twice a day
Garlic - twice a day
Echinacea
She takes a daily multi-vitamin too plus fish oil, so we continued those. 

What I would do differently today:
Add in Quercetin and possibly Zinc. 
Encourage her to sleep on  her stomach.

Neither DH nor I ever had any symptoms. I'd be interested in an antibody test to see if she had COVID and to see if I had it too. 

[Halftime Hope]

One of us is extremely high risk.

We are already each in our own bedroom and bathroom, by choice, for this time period.  We installed a UV system in our air handlers.  We are staying at home and having groceries delivered.  I mask when unavoidably out in public.  We are doing lots of yard work, in the sun and fresh air (no mask.)  We have a decontamination protocol for returning to the house (strip, shower, wash clothes, disinfect shoes) and for incoming packages/groceries/mail.  Disinfection of high touch surfaces. 

We are already taking D, quercetin, ECGC, CoQ10, (the last three are ionophores) and zinc.  I just added NAC.  Also taking garlic, and grapefruit seed extract which are natural anti-virals, on a rotating basis.  Eating a lot of raw veggies and drinking green tea.  We do a lot of physical contact and laughter, as preventative medicine.  :-) 

If someone is interested in a supplement protocol to follow, you might see what Dr. Seheult from MedCram is taking.  (The MedCram website has all his videos; the busybodies at YouTube have taken down several of his COVID Updates series when what he says doesn't follow current dogma, even though what he is presenting is directly referenced from journal articles.)

If either of us gets sick, you bet we will talk early to a doc and do everything we can to get HCQ and AZ.  It seems to be effective when taken early, but in the studies, it's being given to people far too late -- when they are finally hospitalized -- to do any good.  

If we go months without getting sick, and by then leronlimab is available (studies results will be out by mid-June), we will try to get that if labs indicate high RANTES levels and the other markers that go with it.  (Study coming out by Dr. ??  Patterson.)   I won't be asking for remdesivir if I have any other choice.  

In short, I'm hopeful that we can outwait getting this and have some effective treatments for the more critical cases. 

 

 

 

[Pam in CT]

We're in an early hot spot, and have two good friends who are physicians. One of them (pulmonary specialist) has simply stayed in (two -- he switched hospitals as the capacity problems switched) hotel wings that his hospitals have taken over so that the medical staff don't infect their families.  He hasn't lived with his family for two months.  The other (oncologist) stayed in an in-law suite in his house, with its own entrance and bathroom, for several weeks so as not to infect his.  His wife delivered him dinner in the entryway on paper plates and they just sort of waved at each other, for weeks on end. He now has better PPE in the hospital and also now gets tested daily, so they've eased back into eating together in well-ventilated rooms.  He still sleeps in the separate rooms.  Both of them have presumed from the outset that ordinary household contact will lead to transmission.

We've got a similar separate-entry & bathroom setup, which I've set up for quarantine and/or mild symptoms, with a kettle and microwave and a bunch of shelf-stable easy-prep food, flu medications, oximeter & thermometer and etc.  The current plan is that my eldest will go there next week after an excursion into NYC for an (unrelated) doctor's appointment and to pick up things from her apartment, to wait out 14 days from exposure before returning to the (ahem) loving bosom of the family.

 

At this point, based on what looks to be the transmission patterns, I think what matters more than any other single thing is *ventilation* against proximity.  Eating outside together is better than eating at an inside table; open windows are better than a/c, fans blowing airborne particles *out* the window is better than a fan set up to blow the air around the room.  Sleeping in the same bed or room will almost certainly pass any infection on.

 

 

ETA we also have posted in multiple locations each family member's baseline oxygen levels and pulse rates... so any healthy family member can tell if another of us with "mild" symptoms suddenly drops O2 levels.  We know of a number of cases in the area where "mild" went to "severe" really quickly.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Pam in CT

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

FWIW--

Dr. Vin Gupta, assistant professor at University of Washington, was just on a morning show. And he said "No doctor of any repute would prescribe hydroxychloroquine. Case closed."

(He was referring to prescribing it for Covid 19, of course.)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1

NYU medical school is quite reputable.  And their retrospective study found significant benefits with Hydroxychloroquine plus zinc

Edited May 19, 2020 by Pen

[StaceyinLA]

I'm taking 5 grams of C a day now, along with D and A, and I would definitely up the C to 10 grams or more. What I'd likely do is 5 grams in the morning after breakfast then another gram every hour til I've taken 5-10 more. A friend has done some research into how they treat with C, and they do a slow IV drip, so it makes since to have a punch then maybe a slow trickle of it coming in (at least in my mind).

I'd like bump the D and A for a few days as well. This was recommended to us by an MD who works with cancer patients in Atlanta. He sent my friend an outline for the preventive, exposure and then treatment protocols that he recommends.

Lots of water, bone broths, no sugar, etc., and fresh air/sunshine.

[....]

*sigh*. I hate posting this, but I can tell you what we did.  I may delete it, I don't know.  Maybe it's helpful (heck, not sure it's helpful, either!  Lol).    

The person dh shares a tiny office with tested positive for it back in April.  This person kept coming to work until he/she got the positive test results back and THEN they called in sick.  Ugh.  Dh was contacted and told about the exposure.  All 7 of us promptly self-isolated.

Mass panic ensued in Evanthe's household.  We sent dh off to get tested, which was awful in and of itself.  We had to basically beg several places to get him tested, because he didn't have any symptoms.  Finally, an urgent care center tested him, but we had to pay for it through our insurance.  We didn't isolate dh, because we figured that well, by this point, we were all living in such close quarters that it didn't matter.  A couple of days later -  me, dd18 and dd15 got sick.  Out of us 7, only 3 of us got sick and it was only girls.  No boys got sick (strangely).  Also, the little ones didn't get sick.  Dh never had any symptoms.  

I tried to do as much reading as I could online about what kinds of cleaners kill coronavirus...what the symptoms are...how long the symptoms last...etc.  Everything online was mass hysteria and just junk.  People giving advice when it was clear they didn't have a clue what they were talking about....  For example, I tried to search for specific cleaners that kill Covid and the first thing that pops up is an article and gruesome picture of mass cremations.  Yeah, NOT freaking helpful, People.  Every article was basically "you're all going to die". Oh, and your kids are going to die, too....and your kittens and puppies.  There's no hope for you!!!!  You're going to turn into a zombie!  I started having severe anxiety attacks - usually starting in the evening when I was putting ds5 to bed.  I figured the best thing to do was stop reading about it/stop googling it.  It became clear early on that there wasn't much help for us.

So, I don't know if we actually had covid or if we caught something else and it was just a weird coincidence that we got sick at the same time dh was exposed.  But, we treated the situation as if we had covid.  We completely self-isolated, dd18 stopped going to work, we told everyone and warned them, etc.  We tried to do the right thing.

Here's what I did with the best knowledge and resources I had at the time (UGH):

• I cleaned the ever-loving cr@p out of my house.  We wiped down every surface in the house.  We daily wiped down iPhones, iPads, computers, Kindles with Clorox wipes.  I even steam cleaned the carpet.  I dragged everyone's bedding downstairs and washed it.  I was constantly disinfecting and wiping down bathroom surfaces.  One article said to disinfect surfaces 3x a day, so I did.  My house is usually very clean, but I started spending 2-3 hours every morning cleaning it.  Only certain cleaners kill covid, so make sure you have the ones that kill it.   
• I read somewhere that it does not like sunlight....so we opened all the curtains in the house.  
• I put everyone on vitamins.  D18 and I had it the worst, so she and I took vitamin D supplements + vitamins.  Oh, I was giving them vitamin C supplements, too.  We ended up ordering a bunch of vitamins online when I first found out he was exposed.   
• We had a (sorta) plan in case we needed to go to the emergency room.  When we googled it, it said you can't just show up at an ER, you're supposed to call first.  So, we had a hospital picked out and their phone number, just in case.
• I tried to keep all of the kids going and very positive.  Like we still did school - except one day, when dd15 was too sick to do schoolwork.   

Dh ended up testing negative, but we didn't get the test results back until we were basically well again.  Whatever it was lasted about 3 days and it took almost a week to get his test results (I think it was 5 or 6 days).  So, we don't know if we had covid or if it was coincidence.  

About the anxiety - this really took a bite out of me.  Seriously.  About 3 weeks later, some of my hair fell out in the middle of my head.  ☹️  And I had these three weird streaks of white hair coming out of my roots on top.  I had to order hair dye from Amazon and color my hair.  I looked awful.

 

[Kanin]

We only have one bathroom, which is currently stressing me out. There's no good way to isolate in our teeny house. It might not matter much... if DH had covid, I'm not sure I could keep myself from going in to check on him every ten minutes. I would be so worried. 

[sbgrace]

For the ill person, NAC (lower doses if the person is not already taking it--2 of us are), Vitamin C increased, Vitamin D to 10,000 IU per day (from 5,000), quercetin, zinc. I would monitor with pulse ox. 

I would try to isolate as much as we could maybe. I say maybe because the best/only good place to do that would be to put the ill person in the basement bedroom and stay away. I do not know that I would really be able to not check on someone ill. I would have the sick person mask to leave the room. Either way, I think it's probably a losing batttle to avoid exposure of others in a shared home. My son got what I now think was flu A or adenovirus in early March. My other son was sick within 2 days, my husband within 3, and I ran a low temp for around two weeks and then got very sick after that. So we didn't contain at all.  

I **think** I would put everyone in the family, except the symptomatic person, on elderberry because of that probable exposure. I would stop elderberry when symptoms appear. I am not sure I feel comfortable with elderberry in terms of possible excess inflammation, but I believe from experience it is a good anti-viral. So I'm not sure what i would do. I would probably also increase the vitamin D of the others in the home. 

I forgot about sleeping on stomach--that seems very wise. But how would a person train or force themselves to do that if it's not their normal position?

Edited May 19, 2020 by sbgrace

[Pen]

51 minutes ago, kand said:

It looks like that study only evaluated the addition of zinc. Both groups got hydroxychloriquine and azithromicin, The difference was whether zinc was added to the regimen or not. So, that particular study doesn’t tell us anything about hydroxychloriquine. I wonder if they are now looking at whether zinc alone has the same effect. 

 

Zinc apparently does not readily cross the cell membrane to be effective.

 

 trial of zinc by intravenous administration:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-world-first-trial-benefit-intravenous-zinc.html 

might prove helpful 

 

Usually zinc needs an “ionophore.” Hydroxychloroquine is not the only option for that.  I don’t know how other ionophores compare in terms of cost, availability, leaving the medicine for others who need it etc.   

 

https://jvi.asm.org/content/83/1/58

 

https://patents.justia.com/patent/6689774 (I’d be hesitant to try a dandruff shampoo active ingredient internally but I guess it is an option potentially) 

 

Googling for more zinc ionophores: 

Zinc ionophores have been shown to inhibit replication of various viruses in vitro: Coxsackievirus.
...
Zinc ionophores

• Chloroquine (4-Aminoquinoline)
• Clioquinol (8-Hydroxyquinoline)
• Diiodohydroxyquinoline (Quinoline)
• Hydroxychloroquine (4-Aminoquinoline)
• PBT2 (8-Hydroxyquinoline analog)

 

Good basic discussion: 

 https://swietylukasz.pl/en/2020/03/20/zinc-and-covid-19-infection/

 

It is possible that Hydroxychloroquine also helps in immune system modulation much as it does for autoimmunity—as some of the attacks on body from immune system aspects of CV19 seem to be similar to an autoimmune attack.  But some of the other zinc ionophores may also do that

Edited May 19, 2020 by Pen

[SKL]

I assume that I'd find out about Covid exposure some time after it actually happened.

I would probably just stay home more, inform my housemates and let them decide about distance, eat well, and watch for symptoms (in myself and my kids).

I am not sure whether or not I would ask to be tested.  It seems like a logical thing to do, but I am not keen on being put on any watch lists.  I will not allow people to separate my kids from me one way or the other.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Kanin said:

We only have one bathroom, which is currently stressing me out. There's no good way to isolate in our teeny house. It might not matter much... if DH had covid, I'm not sure I could keep myself from going in to check on him every ten minutes. I would be so worried. 

 

One bathroom definitely makes things hard.    Our probably not CV19 practice run was made especially difficult by the one bathroom.

 I think if test were done and CV19 established, it might be a reason to have non sick camp outside as much as possible (or Vice versa) where we are if it were summer, or use a hotel if one were available for quarantine and it were winter.  I know in Massachusetts that hotel quarantine for people with only one bathroom is supposed to be possible. 

Even though exposure would have already presumably happened, the amount of viral load seems important. 

Or? Camp toilet and sponge baths in bedroom? 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I assume that I am possibly exposed every day.  So that won't change.

If I develop symptoms I will do exactly what I did when I thought that I had it the end of February and all of March:

up my Quercetin, vitamin C and zinc.  I already have an inhaler but didn't take it because I wasn't sure if it was safe or not (has data on that changed?) 

continue all my other meds including my immunoregulator

take my temperature and check my 02 stats daily or even more if I start to feel worse.

disinfect my CPap religiously daily

notify my doctor of symptoms - he might have me come get tested since I noticed a testing station right outside the clinic.

go to the hospital if my symptoms become too much to manage at home.  Dh is an RN and I know would be monitoring me. 

[J-rap]

 

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I assume that I am possibly exposed every day.  So that won't change.

If I develop symptoms I will do exactly what I did when I thought that I had it the end of February and all of March:

up my Quercetin, vitamin C and zinc.  I already have an inhaler but didn't take it because I wasn't sure if it was safe or not (has data on that changed?) 

continue all my other meds including my immunoregulator

take my temperature and check my 02 stats daily or even more if I start to feel worse.

disinfect my CPap religiously daily

notify my doctor of symptoms - he might have me come get tested since I noticed a testing station right outside the clinic.

go to the hospital if my symptoms become too much to manage at home.  Dh is an RN and I know would be monitoring me. 

I think this is a smart way of looking at it.  

We got our daily report from the long-term care facility my mother is in, yesterday.  Eleven residents have now died from Covid there -- although their first case was in March and they've been very diligent about containing it.  However, everyone (all residents and staff) was just re-tested over the weekend, and 28 staff members tested positive!!  NONE had symptoms.  I'm sure all of those people have been out shopping for groceries, etc., and assumed they were healthy.   So yes, we have probably all been exposed.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, J-rap said:

 

I think this is a smart way of looking at it.  

We got our daily report from the long-term care facility my mother is in, yesterday.  Eleven residents have now died from Covid there -- although their first case was in March and they've been very diligent about containing it.  However, everyone (all residents and staff) was just re-tested over the weekend, and 28 staff members tested positive!!  NONE had symptoms.  I'm sure all of those people have been out shopping for groceries, etc., and assumed they were healthy.   So yes, we have probably all been exposed.

Adding onto this (and what you quoted):  I mask well (N100 respirator) and wash well and take all precautions because I do know that I am probably around people with it and of course it is invisible and you can't tell which ones are shedding the virus and which ones don't.  In my case, I do know that I don't have any antibodies (tested last week). 

[wathe]

5 hours ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

Truthfully, by the time you know you’ve had an exposure, you’ve already exposed everyone in your household and there’s limited value in staying alone in a room.  I was notified 36 hours after having a patient go tested positive, though they didn’t consider it “technically” an exposure because I had on appropriate PPE. However, she coughed all over the ambulance which we then sat in for another hour while taking another call, and there’s significant evidence the virus hangs out in the air. We can(and did) disinfect surfaces but not the air.  I was told not to quarantine because it wasn’t an exposure, but I got sick 12 days later with bilateral severe pneumonia, 104 fever for five days and body pain.  Even in those 36 hours before being notified about a possible exposure, my husband and my kids and my mom were all exposed to me.  We still don’t know much about the incubation period and when someone becomes contagious, but I think it’s probable that by the time you know about an exposure, the ship has sailed on not exposing your family.

(I was alone as my husband was gone for work, so grandparents had to take my kids.  All of us knew that was a risk, but I was too sick to take care of them.  Fortunately no one else got sick, but sometimes there are no good solutions.)

As far as hospitalization, our state Department of Health has issued guidelines for ambulance.  If you’re not having severe symptoms or high risk factors we are instructed to tell you to stay home and take Tylenol.  As long as you are oxygenating appropriately(our guidelines say 94 or above on an Spo2 probe) there is nothing a hospital can do for you at this point to cure you or really even make you feel better.  Here, at least, they are not prescribing anti-vitals at all.

Truth.  My plan is for isolating a sick person, or a person with a known, unprotected exposure.  For me, that means exposure without PPE.  Exposure with PPE is part of my job.  I have a different routine for minimizing the risk of bringing it home from work.

[Pen]

@Halftime Hope is there an ECGc you recommend? (Brand / form?) 

[Halftime Hope]

36 minutes ago, Pen said:

@Halftime Hope is there an ECGc you recommend? (Brand / form?) 

 

No, sorry!  I have taken several over time, and currently am taking NOW foods.  I also drink 2 cups of organic sencha green tea daily so I'm getting full spectrum, but that's just a way of life thing.  On the quercetin, I'm taking EMIQ (isoquercitrin) which is what has been used in various clinical studies.  (It is packaged by various companies.)  It has better bioavailability.  Same with zinc:  OptiZinc.  Apologies: I haven't been as selective on the ECGC.  If you find something you like, let me know. 

 

[BeachGal]

15 hours ago, matrips said:

I like to be prepared. If one of our family is exposed to covid or is sick, I want a plan ready for what to do.

so what supplements/meds and dosages and what purposes would these supplements serve? When would you seek out a hospital vs staying at home?  Would you try to get tested ASAP and ask for hydroxychloraquine to prevent the virus from spreading in your body? I’ve been impressed by the doctors who have used this successfully as an early intervention.  Especially that one Texas doc who used it at his nursing home.

i have ideas based on all the various threads, but was hoping to get it in one place.

 

The plan for our family:

#1 Oxygen-ozone therapy which Italy began using late in the game but found worked very well with no side effects. They are using major autohemotherapy (MAH) where blood is removed, O2O3 bubbled in, and then re-infused into the patient. The article below is from Italy, April 10, 2020, and explains how it works. The US will not use this but many MDs here do use it on the down low. MAH costs about $200-ish for one infusion.

https://www.pagepressjournals.org/index.php/ozone/article/view/9014/8692

#2 Agarikon, Host Defense (an anti-viral)

#3 Lyposomal Vitamin C taken throughout the day. I use this recipe but there are others as well.

#4 Keep blood sugar low.

#5 Be well rested, eat well, exercise.

Other supplements

Vitamin D3 and K2, Thorne. I take a lot because I have a lot of genes that make it difficult for my levels to stay in a healthy range. Still waiting to get my test results back.

Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate (a form of B6), 100 mg, Life Extension (might help prevent blood clots)

Zinc picolinate, 30 mg, Pure Encapsulations

Magnesium Citrate, 150 mg, Pure Encapsulations

CoQ10, 200 mg, TruNature (from Costco)

NAC, 600 mg, Now brand

Selenium, 200 mcg, Now brand

Quercetin with Bromelain, 400 mg/82mg, Now brand

Curcumin, 500 mg, Docotr's Best

Beet root powder, 2 grams, Nature's Way (can help lower blood pressure)

Magnesium lotion/gel after shower, Dr. Shealy's

[ElizabethB]

10 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

FWIW--

Dr. Vin Gupta, assistant professor at University of Washington, was just on a morning show. And he said "No doctor of any repute would prescribe hydroxychloroquine. Case closed."

(He was referring to prescribing it for Covid 19, of course.)

The UW is actually doing a study with The Gates Foundation based on promising drugs, one of them is Hydroxychloroquine!

https://www.gatesfoundation.org/TheOptimist/Articles/coronavirus-interview-trevor-mundel-drug-trials

Edited May 19, 2020 by ElizabethB

[....]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

I am not sure whether or not I would ask to be tested.  It seems like a logical thing to do, but I am not keen on being put on any watch lists.  I will not allow people to separate my kids from me one way or the other.

 

Ya' know....in hindsight...dh and I decided the same thing.  I think if we are exposed and/or get sick again, we aren't going to bother getting tested.  It was worthless.  Dh had to beg multiple places to test him and he was angry.  He said he would not give them ANY information if he was positive, because he asked several times to get tested and they refused.  And we had to pay for the test out of our pocket.  Also, there was NO help.  No information on what to do.  He basically sat in his car while the urgent care center did the swab and then they gave him like a stupid pamphlet or something.  It took almost a week for the results (which is ridiculous, but at least we found someone who would test him). We weren't sure where to go or what to do if we started feeling REALLY bad.  We weren't even quite sure what to do if there was an emergency, because they were saying online that ERs didn't want you to go there.  It was obvious that no one cared, despite all the media hysteria.  Like I said in my earlier post, it became clear that there was no advice and no real help.  Heck, I wasn't even sure how to get real cleaning supplies that I needed, because everyone ran out and bought them all at the beginning of the stupid pandemic and we were already running low.      

When I was trying to deal with it, I was calming the hysteria in my own house by reasoning through this with the kids.  Look, guys.  This is a virus.  We're going to act like we have a virus.  This isn't from Mars or the moons of Jupiter.  We're not going to keel over and turn into flesh-eating zombies.  This isn't a Stephen King movie where we need to do a blood test to see who's the alien and who isn't.  It's not an alien fog floating around.  We're not sitting in the house waiting for Blitzkrieg.  

We will, however, self-isolate again and do the things I posted upthread.

I got our giant family through it, but, yeah, like I said upthread, it really took a lot out of me.   

[sassenach]

On 5/19/2020 at 7:18 AM, Kanin said:

We only have one bathroom, which is currently stressing me out. There's no good way to isolate in our teeny house. It might not matter much... if DH had covid, I'm not sure I could keep myself from going in to check on him every ten minutes. I would be so worried. 

We also only have one full bathroom. Ds is super high risk so we would immediately evacuate with him to a hotel and have my dd drive here to take care of her brother while I take care of whomever is sick (yes, in my imaginary situation, I am never the sick one). If anyone gets sick, it's gonna be thousands in hotel bills, but I'll worry about that later.

[GoodGrief]

On 5/19/2020 at 2:20 AM, Pawz4me said:

FWIW--

Dr. Vin Gupta, assistant professor at University of Washington, was just on a morning show. And he said "No doctor of any repute would prescribe hydroxychloroquine. Case closed."

(He was referring to prescribing it for Covid 19, of course.)

Individual docs/scientists offer all sorts of opinions that are not necessarily accurate.

[Pawz4me]

19 minutes ago, GoodGrief1 said:

Individual docs/scientists offer all sorts of opinions that are not necessarily accurate.

Obviously.

It's why I put that "FWIW" in there.

[Shoeless]

2 hours ago, Plum said:

Is there a current simple graphic that shows a timeline of all the important things to do if exposed? Like how many days after exposure you may show symptoms? At what point you are contagious? When is the best time to get the test? 

 

I don't know of a graphic on it. 

What I know from my immunology relatives is that symptoms typically show up 5-6 days after exposure.  You should be tested within 3 days of showing symptoms, because that is when there is the highest viral load in the upper airway.  If you wait longer than that, the virus is moving out of the upper airway into the lower airway, and there isn't as much virus sample for them to collect.  This would make you more likely to get a false-negative test result. You are also most contagious just before showing symptoms and for a few days after symptoms develop.  You can still be contagious after your symptoms resolve and you feel better, so the recommendation is to wear a mask and social distance after you start feeling better.  Most people are no longer contagious 10 days after symptoms have resolved, but wear a mask for 14 days after symptoms resolve, just to be safe. 

Like with any illness, there are outliers. Some people will show symptoms earlier or later than 5-6 days. Some people will be contagious for longer, some people will be contagious for less time. 

Here's a link from Harvard about it.  It's a bit long. Harvard Covid Stuff

Edited May 23, 2020 by MissLemon

[....]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

Is there a current simple graphic that shows a timeline of all the important things to do if exposed? Like how many days after exposure you may show symptoms? At what point you are contagious? When is the best time to get the test? 

 

I was never able to find one.  I would like to help you and google some articles, but I am so mentally burned out that I don't even want to look at anything about covid ever again.  From off the top of my head, I remember reading most people developed symptoms around Days 4 and 5.  Like it was rare to develop symptoms later....  I think we were about 4 days after dh was exposed when we got sick.  So, that seemed spot-on, if we did have covid.  I never could find anything about when you're contagious and I'm not sure they know.  I'm not sure when the best time to get tested is, either.     

[73349]

...

Edited October 2, 2020 by Carolina Wren