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mmasc

10th grade science questions

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my ds is finishing up with 9th grade and did biology with lab (outsourced). He hung in there, but it was a *tough* class and really threw him in the deep end with the amount of work required. I had planned on moving to chemistry next, but now I'm thinking that waiting until 11th grade might be better.  So I have two questions:

1) would doing something else between biology and chemistry be a bad idea--regarding the sequence of things?

2) what do I use for 10th? maybe a Physical Science (even though it's more common for 9th)? 

thank you!

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Does he have an interest? Astronomy? Ecology? Marine Biology? Ornithology?

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47 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Does he have an interest? Astronomy? Ecology? Marine Biology? Ornithology?

No. 😞 I mean, I could definitely ask and see if any of these might be interesting to him, but mostly he just wants to ‘get school done’.

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Same here- I decided to do Holt Earth Science instead.  The textbook is easier than the Biology one we used last year (Miller Levine).  One thing I'm going to work on is her ability to read and understand, note take, ect.  We did do RSO Chemistry,  and added a bit when she was in 8th grade, so she does know the basics.  I was teaching Zumdahl Workd of Chemistry to her sister at that time, and I know mine isnt ready for that much math!

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I think it's fine to switch things up and not do chemistry next!

But also, it's possible that the outsourcing was the cause of stress, not the material itself. I know my kids spend tons less time on science using Apologia at home than many on these boards do for an outsourced class. Just something to think about ...

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I personally wouldn't do Physical Science, but I don't think there is any problem with doing something different. Cornell has an ornithology course. You could do Earth Science like BusyMom5 mentioned. This would be a good year to do Epidemiology. Or, go wild and do Robotics. Here is Margaret in CO's course description:

Robotics and Electronics w/ lab:  A one year laboratory course using Understanding Modern Electronics by Professor Richard Wolfson, from The Teaching Company. The course also included fischertechnik mobile and stationary robotics utilizing the fischertechnik ROBO TX Training Lab and Electropneumatic packages. The student read Michael Faraday: Physics and Faith by Colin A. Russell. The student used AOP™s Lifepac for Science Grade 12: Units 6 & 7. The student built fifteen models involving sketching, documentation, mechanical, electronic and sensor systems. Computer coding using the ROBO Pro software was used to program the robots. In addition, the student built several robots of her own design. The student viewed the BBC series: Shock and Awe: The Story of Electricity. (1 credit) (10th grade)

Here is a Lori D list I copied from an old thread for some outside-of-the-usual three ideas:

- Equine (Horse) Science
- Environmental Science
- Ecology
- Botany
- Horticulture (Gardening)
- Meteorology (Weather)
- Geology or Earth Science
- Astronomy

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He might actually like Epidemiology @RootAnn  we did Tiner’s History of Medicine in 7th grade and he enjoyed it. Do you have a text or course you’d recommend for this?

I’ve looked at the Holt Earth @BusyMom5 recommended and it could be good as well. It looks like they also offer an Environmental Science that could be interesting. 
 

@Momto6inIN yes, I suspect the outsourcing is to blame. 😞 it was truly a tough class, and they even used Apologia Biology! However, it was definitely a thorough and full lab class. I got a little freaked out about teaching high school science and outsourced. However, I don’t think he would’ve done well getting through that book on his own. It seemed so dry and boring. But again, I’m not much into high school science and never have been! I just really want this year to be much better and something he might possibly enjoy. We always enjoyed science together up until things ‘got serious’. 
 

thanks for your ideas! Please continue to share your nuggets of wisdom 😊

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You might want to check the subject level of the biology class.  Last summer, my 9th grader took a class described as preparation for AP biology.  Well, the class turned out to be AP level, if not actually college level.  It took the kid for a loop as to the amount of work it took, especially because he didn't have any chemistry background.  After that class he started AP chem. He said AP chemistry is much easier because he got introduced to chem in the biology class. 

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31 minutes ago, gstharr said:

You might want to check the subject level of the biology class.  Last summer, my 9th grader took a class described as preparation for AP biology.  Well, the class turned out to be AP level, if not actually college level.  It took the kid for a loop as to the amount of work it took, especially because he didn't have any chemistry background.  After that class he started AP chem. He said AP chemistry is much easier because he got introduced to chem in the biology class. 

This was advertised as high school and repeatedly she said it was a ‘9th grade text’. But the work didn’t seem to be!

what chemistry is your ds using? (I’m curious but really don’t think he’s ready for chemistry)

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I don't have a text or course, but I'm sure there is a lot out there. I'd probably combine a course (like the CDC's online free one-designed to be completed in two weeks) with a 'current events' type focus where he's reading/researching studies & info that are coming out about COVID-19. Like a short summary on testing trends and how they are influencing (or not influencing) decisions in a geographical area one week and a paper picking out promising treatments  (with citations) over the next two weeks. He can rabbit trail on his own and propose to you what his output will be & a timeframe.

Or, Coursera has at least one Epidemiology course. Actually, they have several:  https://www.coursera.org/courses?query=epidemiology

I haven't used any of these, but I would probably pair one formal text/class with some leeway for following the current stuff going on. 

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Physics would be a fine choice!  We used Centripetal Press Introductory Physics and found it fantastic - in depth, but more narrowly focused than an 800 page textbook.  If he is not mathy and not going into a math/science field, perhaps Conceptual Physics.  Another alternative is to choose a science topic he is interested in and build a course around that.  Recently on this board, someone was going to build a course around fishes because their DS loved fishing.  So you could go that route.  For the non-sciency types, Exploration Education Physical Sciences (Advanced version) is excellent, although I do not think it is rigorous enough for a science-focused student and we used it for middle school.  That one is computer-based with a heavy hands-on component.

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44 minutes ago, Reefgazer said:

Physics would be a fine choice!  We used Centripetal Press Introductory Physics and found it fantastic - in depth, but more narrowly focused than an 800 page textbook.  If he is not mathy and not going into a math/science field, perhaps Conceptual Physics.  Another alternative is to choose a science topic he is interested in and build a course around that.  Recently on this board, someone was going to build a course around fishes because their DS loved fishing.  So you could go that route.  For the non-sciency types, Exploration Education Physical Sciences (Advanced version) is excellent, although I do not think it is rigorous enough for a science-focused student and we used it for middle school.  That one is computer-based with a heavy hands-on component.

I always thought physics is the hard science you take later in high school. Is this something different than the typical ‘Physics w/ Lab’ credit? Please forgive my cluelessness. I’m researching this stuff but still trying to figure it all out! (I only took 3 years of science in HS and didn’t do physics at all!)

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2 hours ago, mmasc said:

I always thought physics is the hard science you take later in high school. Is this something different than the typical ‘Physics w/ Lab’ credit? Please forgive my cluelessness. I’m researching this stuff but still trying to figure it all out! (I only took 3 years of science in HS and didn’t do physics at all!)

Physics often require a higher level of math to truly get into it and understand it.  There is Algebra based Physics and Calculus based Physics.   

Physical Science, on the other hand, is a mix of Physics, Chemistry, and maybe even some Earth/Space science at a slightly lower level.   Conceptual Physics teaches the concepts of Physics without all the math.

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6 hours ago, mmasc said:

This was advertised as high school and repeatedly she said it was a ‘9th grade text’. But the work didn’t seem to be!

what chemistry is your ds using? (I’m curious but really don’t think he’s ready for chemistry)

He is wrapping up Thinkwell AP compatible Chemistry. I have no hesitation in recommending TW. We have used it for math from pre-calc thought college calc. Ap chem is our first TW science. We will continue with college  physics 1.  If you try TW, note that the honors class is the full college class.  Ap compatible is almost the same class but omits things not on the AP exam.  

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4 hours ago, mmasc said:

I always thought physics is the hard science you take later in high school. Is this something different than the typical ‘Physics w/ Lab’ credit? Please forgive my cluelessness. I’m researching this stuff but still trying to figure it all out! (I only took 3 years of science in HS and didn’t do physics at all!)

There are two answers to your physics question:  One, college-prep physics is often taught later in high school because many students don't have the math background to take it in their freshman year.  But if your son has had Algebra I, then an algebra based physics class (like the Introductory Physics class I mentioned) will be fine for him.  In fact, it makes more sense to me to teach physics as a first science because its principles underpin everything.  I taught my son physics first in 9th grade and we are on to chemistry in 10th, with biology after that.  Biology was traditionally taught first in high school only because at the high school level it requires so little math.  Second, if your son is not mathy, or is not going into a math or science based field, or does not have the algebra to support traditional physics, consider Conceptual Physics by Paul Hewitt.  It has a a student text, instructor text, online videos, and student and teacher lab manuals, all readily available on Amazon and adaptable to any home situation.  It is the perfect physics for someone who is not mathy.  Either of these options will give you the "physics with lab" credit you seek, although an engineering major doing Conceptual Physics in high school might raise a doubtful eyebrow or two.

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Thank you all so much! This has been very helpful. He isn’t ‘mathy’ but does fairly well in math and is finishing algebra 1 this year. So it looks like I can research a couple of these physics options, as well as the other things upthread. Thank you!

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On 5/18/2020 at 5:46 PM, mmasc said:

Thank you all so much! This has been very helpful. He isn’t ‘mathy’ but does fairly well in math and is finishing algebra 1 this year. So it looks like I can research a couple of these physics options, as well as the other things upthread. Thank you!

My son did online Clover Creek physics and I can't recommend it highly enough. It requires algebra 1. Ds and I LOVE the teacher and the class. He was an 8th grader then. His classmates were all older. One was a high school senior. 

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http://www.clovercreekscience.com/ sorry, the class is full. I took the class along with ds for the 1st semester. The teacher was so friendly and didn't mind me joining the class and doing all the math problems. She created a very warm, welcoming sense of community. There were lots of experiments to be done at home and lab reports were solid but not hard to do. 

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So, kind of a funny update. After talking with ds and looking at various fields of science (earth, Environmental, conceptual physics, etc), he was thinking maybe the conceptual physics. After watching a few of the Hewitt-drew-it videos and looking at the text, he decided that no, he did not like or understand what the guy was talking about 😂 So then we talked about chemistry. We looked at several different texts and samples. We looked at sample videos from Clover Valley. And then he said ‘oh yeah, I like this stuff. I just didn’t want to do it because I didn’t want to take it at the same tutorial we used this year. So I said I didn’t want to do chemistry’. Doh! Mom fail. I had no idea he actually *likes* chemistry and was just trying to avoid going to the same outsourced place as this year. So, chemistry it is! Fingers crossed it will be a good science year for him! (We’re going with Clover Valley)

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5 hours ago, mmasc said:

So, kind of a funny update. After talking with ds and looking at various fields of science (earth, Environmental, conceptual physics, etc), he was thinking maybe the conceptual physics. After watching a few of the Hewitt-drew-it videos and looking at the text, he decided that no, he did not like or understand what the guy was talking about 😂 So then we talked about chemistry. We looked at several different texts and samples. We looked at sample videos from Clover Valley. And then he said ‘oh yeah, I like this stuff. I just didn’t want to do it because I didn’t want to take it at the same tutorial we used this year. So I said I didn’t want to do chemistry’. Doh! Mom fail. I had no idea he actually *likes* chemistry and was just trying to avoid going to the same outsourced place as this year. So, chemistry it is! Fingers crossed it will be a good science year for him! (We’re going with Clover Valley)

Glad you found something he is into!

 

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I thought those Hewitt videos were quite clever and I’m kind of hoping maybe he will want to take that class next year😁 (for 11th, I mean) 

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On 5/26/2020 at 11:24 PM, mmasc said:

I thought those Hewitt videos were quite clever and I’m kind of hoping maybe he will want to take that class next year😁 (for 11th, I mean) 

There is actually a lab manual where he does the experiments.  I kinda think the videos are old, and goofy, and dated.

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