Chemical Cleaners-----are you worried about the huge increase in chemical cleaner use?

[Ottakee]

I was just thinking of this as I read how one form of public transportation was going to basically fumigate after each trip.   I know there has been a huge increase in use of Clorox wipes, antibacterial hand sanitizer, cleaning chemicals of all types.

Is there any worry about our chemical load and/or creating any super bugs with all of this cleaning and sanitizing?   

I remember, maybe a few years back, when doctors were saying to WASH with SOAP and WATER and save the hand sanitizer for situations where that was not possible but that they did not want super bugs to develop due to over use of hand sanitizer.

I am not an alarmist in either direction, but I am not sure that long term this will be good for our immune systems, esp. the young who now will have everything they touch sanitized multiple times a day.

[J-rap]

Yes, I've thought about that...  Not necessarily in regard to super bugs, but just adding so much more toxins to our environment in general.  I don't wipe down boxes and groceries, but I do use a regular disinfectant now to clean my counters and door knobs and handles, etc.  I haven't used anything this strong in probably 20 years.  (I've been using all natural products.)

And it's being used everywhere now I suppose -- stores and offices and hotels and apartment buildings and public transit, etc., just not just once a day but over and over again throughout the day.  Ugh.

[PrincessMommy]

Yes, I am. I was actually at an appt. today and this very thing came to mind.  There is so many chemicals that we're using. I do worry about how it will affect our health and the environment in the long-term.  

[kbutton]

Somewhat. Many commercial cleaners being used in public venues are more environmentally friendly and many are electrolyte-based. I posted more details on another thread, but stadiums, bus lines, churches, schools, office buildings, etc. often use the electrolyte cleaners. 

I heard about these cleaners from someone that coordinates new jobs/contracts for a cleaning crew of developmentally disabled adults near the beginning of the outbreak. He'd been getting questions about the products, plus he was following the situation early on to be proactive. He said the sprayers you often see in China are this type of cleaner. 

I am more worried about people using harsh stuff at home obsessively even if they are rarely going out. You really need to do higher level of cleaning only if someone is ill, or if someone has been out and about. You do want to clean after they get home. Obviously, if someone is working outside the home daily, then good cleaning is better, but mostly people should be doing their regular cleaning, and then doing a pass afterwards to disinfect. You have to get "grime" (not insinuating everyone HAS layers and layers of grime, lol!) off before a disinfectant can work. If people are using harsh stuff for all the steps, that's not necessary, and it's more exposure.

For those working outside the home, having a place to change and wash up that is isolated from the rest of the house is a good idea and cuts down on a lot of germs coming in. My DH works in healthcare and is able to shower and change before coming home. His laundry goes in a different hamper and is washed separately. If either of us go out, we change upon coming home, and we wash up. If we've been someplace with more people or where we're in contact with surfaces, then we might also shower, not just wash hands, face, etc. DH sleeps alone (so we won't breath on each other all night), and he has his own bathroom. If he couldn't use a different bathroom, we'd be doing a lot more cleaning! 

 

[Joker]

I worry but I have awful reactions to most cleaners. I haven’t even owned any bleach products in more than 20 years. It bothers me so much to smell all the cleaning stuff everywhere when we’re out now and I do have to just leave some places.

Ds was so healthy his freshman year of college living in a dorm while all those around him seemed to be constantly sick. I told him to thank me for all the germs he had already been exposed to due to my cleaning with pretty much only soap, water, and vinegar. It was a joke but I think there’s also something to it.

[Ottakee]

14 minutes ago, Joker said:

 

Ds was so healthy his freshman year of college living in a dorm while all those around him seemed to be constantly sick. I told him to thank me for all the germs he had already been exposed to due to my cleaning with pretty much only soap, water, and vinegar. It was a joke but I think there’s also something to it.

I agree there is something to exposing our immune systems to some germs.  

Obviously hospital settings, etc are places for much more extreme germ control.

I try to be reasonably cautious but I have not used a single Clorox wipe this entire time and my family is on our first 1/2 full 2oz bottle of hand sanitizer.   We use soap and water almost exclusively.

[prairiewindmomma]

On my list of worries radar, this one is a bit lower on my list.

My family spends most of their time right now in the house, and I'm not going overboard with cleaners. What I do have at home are products that are not going to cause respiratory irritation, rashes, etc. but are still effective at cleaning.

I'm not even particularly worried about the cleaners being used with public transit cleaning, in hospitals, etc. right now. Honestly, knowing that our local bus was only being cleaned every 45 days previously (other than a brief sweeping nightly) to being cleaned weekly seems like a good shift.

What am I worried about? Some of the fogging equipment being used.....and that depends on which chemicals they are using.  I'm also worried about small children who mouth objects in daycares who are probably having their toys cleaned with bleach solutions rather than hydrogen peroxide based ones.  I'm also worried about a few other specific things.

We are exposed to huge plethora of bacteria, fungi, and viruses all of the time.  I understand the concern about superbugs, but I don't think that current practices are going to lead to a huge flareup of that. 

[vonfirmath]

2 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I was just thinking of this as I read how one form of public transportation was going to basically fumigate after each trip.   I know there has been a huge increase in use of Clorox wipes, antibacterial hand sanitizer, cleaning chemicals of all types.

Is there any worry about our chemical load and/or creating any super bugs with all of this cleaning and sanitizing?   

I remember, maybe a few years back, when doctors were saying to WASH with SOAP and WATER and save the hand sanitizer for situations where that was not possible but that they did not want super bugs to develop due to over use of hand sanitizer.

I am not an alarmist in either direction, but I am not sure that long term this will be good for our immune systems, esp. the young who now will have everything they touch sanitized multiple times a day.

I have been avoiding using hand sanitzier. I prefer soap and water

 

But I just saw a picture of a huge red rash and a loud complaint about her baby getting this rash from sitting in the baby seat at the grocery cart due to whatever chemical it is they are using to sanitize their carts

 

[Joker]

1 minute ago, kand said:

I’m super cautious about hygiene right now when I have to go do the shopping and with anything I bring into the house (I’m one of those grocery disinfectors), but I’m not using any special products to disinfect things inside my house. My kids are all exposed to the same level of stuff as usual from animals in the house and digging in the dirt and such as always. They are getting plenty of exposure to keep their immune system working normally. 
 

I’m curious how you’re managing with mostly soap and water when you’re out of the house. My main exposure to cleaners that I don’t like right now is breathing in the hand sanitizer. It really is irritating to me to breathe that and I feel like it can’t be great for my lungs. I don’t see any way around using hand sanitizer at multiple points when I am doing the shopping, though. Before masking, before pulling my phone out to pay, before removing my mask, after removing my mask, before getting in the car. I can’t imagine having gotten through this long on only 1 ounce of hand sanitizer. I don’t use it at home at all. 

Bleach and alcohol aren’t considered a concern for creating superbugs the way antibiotics are. Bleach and rubbing alcohol have a mechanical action on bacteria and viruses that basically destroys them (alcohol isn’t effective for all the things one might want to clean off their hands and surfaces – – C diff and Norovirus  being notable ones. You want to use something else when those are of concern.) I’m very anti overuse of antibiotics and never buy any kind of antibacterial soap, so it’s not that this isn’t generally a worry of mine (I have personal experience with the effects of antibiotic overuse, so it’s a big one for me). 
 

https://www.businessinsider.com/do-hand-sanitizers-cause-antibiotic-resistance-2014-4?op=1

See, your list of how you use hand sanitizer sounds wild to me. I wouldn’t be able to breath at all after all that. I only go out to get groceries or takeout and I just wash my hands when I get home. I put my mask on right before I go in with already clean hands. I shop, pay, put groceries in car, and take off my mask. None of those things have me sticking my fingers in anything to give myself the virus. Then, I just throw the mask in the washer and wash my hands at home. 

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Joker said:

See, your list of how you use hand sanitizer sounds wild to me. I wouldn’t be able to breath at all after all that. I only go out to get groceries or takeout and I just wash my hands when I get home. I put my mask on right before I go in with already clean hands. I shop, pay, put groceries in car, and take off my mask. None of those things have me sticking my fingers in anything to give myself the virus. Then, I just throw the mask in the washer and wash my hands at home. 

This is pretty much what I do.

Wash my hands, put on my mask at home. Go out, shop. If I have to access my phone, do so. etc.  wash hands and everything else when I get home, then take off mask.

 

Wash off groceries (or set aside for a couple of days). Clean the door knobs, my phone, my credit card, my keys. My purse gets changed and cleaned once a week.

[Tanaqui]

Once again, literally everything you ever touch is "chemicals". Water is a chemical. Vinegar is chemicals. Soap is chemicals. You are chemicals. Everything ever is chemicals. The alternative to cleaning with chemicals is - wait, actually, there is an alternative - UV sanitizing lights. I don't know how effective they are yet.

[itsheresomewhere]

I expect an increase in asthma and other issues in the fall.  Getting a pulmonologist or allergist appointment will be worse than normal. 
 

There is a dentist near me that has issued its new rules for patients.  They are- all patients must wear a mask into the place. Patients must use hand sanitizer as soon as they come in. Patients will be escorted immediately to the exam room.  Patients will then rinse their mouth with a anti-bacterial/anti microbial mouth wash.  Patients will then use hand sanitizer again. After your exam/cleaning, patients will use hand sanitizer and replace the mask back onto the their face.  Patients may not wear gloves into the office. All patients with a temperature above 98.6 will not be permitted into the office ( guess they haven’t read the latest information about 98.6 not being correct for everyone). This is the abbreviated version.  I do wonder what they will do if someone can not use their hand sanitizer or the mouthwash.  

Edited May 14, 2020 by itsheresomewhere

[Guest]

I don’t worry about this for myself/my family, because we garden and have chickens...basically, we have a lot of exposure to small levels of germs. I also eat and drink probiotic things: natural sourdough bread items and I just recently started making kombucha. 

It is true that my household cleaning now features bleach, alcohol and disinfectants at a degree never before employed; usually, I prefer to clean with gentle, general-purpose cleaning agents like Mrs. Meyers or Dr. Bronners. But unusual circumstances call for unusual action. 

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, vonfirmath said:

This is pretty much what I do.

Wash my hands, put on my mask at home. Go out, shop. If I have to access my phone, do so. etc.  wash hands and everything else when I get home, then take off mask.

 

Wash off groceries (or set aside for a couple of days). Clean the door knobs, my phone, my credit card, my keys. My purse gets changed and cleaned once a week.

Whoa. Don’t wash your hands and then take off your mask. If your mask has been working effectively it is very contaminated. Take your mask off carefully to avoid having it touch your face as you remove it, THEN wash your hands thoroughly.

 

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

. If your mask has been working effectively it is very contaminated. 

The mask is not any more contaminated than your pants, sweater, or purse. Other peoples' germs don't magically seek out your face mask out of all places.

The main effect of a mask is to keep the wearer's own germs to themselves. Against which no amount of washing is going to  help.

[GoodGrief]

4 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I was just thinking of this as I read how one form of public transportation was going to basically fumigate after each trip.   I know there has been a huge increase in use of Clorox wipes, antibacterial hand sanitizer, cleaning chemicals of all types.

Is there any worry about our chemical load and/or creating any super bugs with all of this cleaning and sanitizing?   

I remember, maybe a few years back, when doctors were saying to WASH with SOAP and WATER and save the hand sanitizer for situations where that was not possible but that they did not want super bugs to develop due to over use of hand sanitizer.

I am not an alarmist in either direction, but I am not sure that long term this will be good for our immune systems, esp. the young who now will have everything they touch sanitized multiple times a day.

 

Yes, it is highly likely we are trading one set of problems for another.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

All patients with a temperature above 98.6 will not be permitted into the office ( guess they haven’t read the latest information about 98.6 not being correct for everyone).

 

Sure, but if you have a temperature over 98.6 F you probably are above your personal norm - most people have an average body temperature that's lower than 98F, not one that's higher.

Quote

The mask is not any more contaminated than your pants, sweater, or purse. Other peoples' germs don't magically seek out your face mask out of all places.

 

Their faces are closer to your face than your purse, and when you breathe air in, don't the germs and particulates move with the air, at least as far as the surface of the mask?

[Tanaqui]

19 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Whoa. Don’t wash your hands and then take off your mask. If your mask has been working effectively it is very contaminated. Take your mask off carefully to avoid having it touch your face as you remove it, THEN wash your hands thoroughly.

 

The official advice is that you wash your hands first because you may accidentally touch your face when removing the mask (which you should touch only by the straps as much as necessary). Then wash your hands again once you've folded the mask, outside in, and either discarded it or put it to be washed.

At least, that's the advice given to people working with SARS patients that I found when I googled this a month ago. It's possible that we have newer information that is more accurate about *this* disease or that simply reflects greater knowledge.

[vonfirmath]

23 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Whoa. Don’t wash your hands and then take off your mask. If your mask has been working effectively it is very contaminated. Take your mask off carefully to avoid having it touch your face as you remove it, THEN wash your hands thoroughly.

 

i used to change clothes and take a shower after dealing with the groceries, etc.

I guess I'm not as concerned because I've stopped doing that.

 

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

This made me laugh because one of the things I joke about is in 20 years we will be seeing Class Action suits about how many people were affected with bleach with some new incurable disease. I am sanitizing amazon boxes, wiping down groceries and sanitizing the mail. It is not normal and I am someone who used to be on the paranoid side of cleaning before this, just not this much bleach.

 

How about using peroxide? Works just as well - and no fumes. 

4 hours ago, J-rap said:

Yes, I've thought about that...  Not necessarily in regard to super bugs, but just adding so much more toxins to our environment in general.  I don't wipe down boxes and groceries, but I do use a regular disinfectant now to clean my counters and door knobs and handles, etc.  I haven't used anything this strong in probably 20 years.  (I've been using all natural products.)

And it's being used everywhere now I suppose -- stores and offices and hotels and apartment buildings and public transit, etc., just not just once a day but over and over again throughout the day.  Ugh.

Same - peroxide for that here. 

3 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Chemicals....not so much.

But specifically the use of alcohol and bleach as it relates to "super bugs" with regards to bacteria and such...yes.  I can't help but wonder if the extreme use of alcohol and bleach based sanitizers isn't going to just create the next pandemic.  Maybe not this year or next, but kids or grandkids... I don't think that's crazy to think about.  

Nope. They can't develop resistance to that stuff the way they do with antibiotics. The issue with sanitizers was triclosan, not the alcohol. 

[prairiewindmomma]

24 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

The official advice is that you wash your hands first because you may accidentally touch your face when removing the mask (which you should touch only by the straps as much as necessary). Then wash your hands again once you've folded the mask, outside in, and either discarded it or put it to be washed.

At least, that's the advice given to people working with SARS patients that I found when I googled this a month ago. It's possible that we have newer information that is more accurate about *this* disease or that simply reflects greater knowledge.

I am ok with washing before and after unmasking...I just didn’t see her listing washing her hands after de-masking.

Personally, I use my right dirty gloved hand to hold my mask and hook my left hand into the straps at the back of my head and lift up and over. I put my N95 into a paper bag to dry out and then deglove, wash my hands thoroughly, go shower and change, wrap my dirty clothes in my towel so they don’t touch clean me, wash my hands again after putting clothes into washer and then work on wiping down everything that got contaminated in the meantime. I am immunocompromised, though, and only going out for medical stuff...so different dynamics.

And in other news, I remind my parents that masks don’t work if you don’t wear them over your mouth and nose. They aren’t effective as a chin guard.

[JustEm]

I have not increased my use other than using hand sanitizer when out.  My cleaning routine at home has not changed at all and I didn't use clorox wipes before this aside from for the toilets because it is how the kid prefer to clean them. So, I'm not worried

[Shoeless]

I was more diligent about disinfecting all.the.things. when this first started. Wiping down doorknobs and light switches, wiping down the groceries, etc after I'd been out of the house. 

Now I'm back to normal cleaning.  I don't wipe down the groceries anymore, except for canned goods. I wear a homemade mask in public, use hand sanitizer, and avoid touching my face until I get home and wash my hands.  I'm in a county with very few cases, so that is impacting how much effort I put into disinfection. If covid-19 was really tearing through our town and county, OR if it was winter, I'd be more diligent in cleaning. It was 94 degrees today, so the odds of anything surviving on the mail or an Amazon package are slim this time of year.

I do admit I don't fully understand the thinking of people who are not leaving the house and also turbo cleaning every day. If you aren't going out, then how would new germs make it into your home? 

I've always used really boring Lysol, bleach, or Mr. Clean to clean my house. If something seems really grubby, I'll scrub at it with a bucket of soapy water.  None of those seem particularly nefarious, IMO.  I'm not anti-chemicals. When diluted correctly and used appropriately, they are not "toxic" for most people. 

[ktgrok]

51 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I am always a turbo cleaner, when you come from a not so clean environment, you are raised like that. But now, I have upped it a notch. 

We get groceries delivered. I have no clue who the delivery person is, their environment and so it makes sense for me to wipe down the packages and dispose of them immediately as in take the trash out eve when the bag is not full. Amazon boxes cannot sit in the garage for us to sanitize for 3 days. They contain things we need sooner. So they are bathed in bleach with DH or I masking, wearing goggles and doing it on the front porch. We maybe putting on a show if not for paranoid neighbors surrounding us who are turbo cleaners themselves (term made me laugh)

 

I'm the same, with the packages, but I do use peroxide. If you can find it it works just as well, kill time of about 1 minute, and a LOT less fumes, plus less likely to damage other objects/fabric, etc. I just stuck a spray head right on the bottle of peroxide, so super easy to mist over the surfaces. 

[kbutton]

I revise my statement to say that I am a little worried about employees getting toxic levels of essential oils at the chiropractor, lol! Many have good cleaning properties, but since they are wiping things down between each client, it's making my eyes smart. They aren't diffusing anything that I can tell--just using them for disinfecting.  

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Dreamergal said:

You mean Hydrogen Peroxide right ? I did not know it could do that so I just stocked up on bleach. Amazon had bleach at $24.99 + $15.99 shipping price gouging third party prices in March and I searched high and low for bleach at good prices and found it in a paint store. But I am unable to find peroxide anywhere after I read about it. I looked online and it is sold out wherever I looked which is in places like walgreen online. I found this on amazon. The price is a bit high, but I do not know how to dilute it. 

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonCommercial-Multi-Purpose-Peroxide-Concentrate-1-Gallon/dp/B07XQW2D54/ref=sr_1_7?crid=1V3F0IL564HJ1&dchild=1&keywords=hydrogen+peroxide&qid=1589564680&sprefix=hydogen+%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-7

I've found it in walmart and Sams so far..might try those places. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, here you go https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07217J9DS/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07217J9DS&pd_rd_w=lQEEY&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=iYMZN&pf_rd_r=C9B6J80G9696V7Z7R51G&pd_rd_r=b2614bfd-5410-416f-98b6-6b8a17de617d&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFVMkFVTFBPQ0VOSUYmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTEwMzYzMTgzTkNXTjRWMEVSMURBJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0ODI5ODYxQjZQWEZQTzdVVTNBJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==