unschooling myself?

[DoAlBaZo]

I need your advice. I've been homeschooling my eldest daughter for 5 years now - since kindergarten, and before that she didn't attend preschool nor daycare.

She gets discouraged very quickly. The moment she hits something non trival, she has a tendency to turn back and run away. I think this lack of maturity is the main reason, why she doesn't like to study - she doesn't like working hard on solving problems, she would like everything to be easy and I should provide her with all the answers at once. One example - she wanted to learn german, so we started working on it, but since it requires boring repetitions, she is becoming more and more impatient and discouraged.

In our homeschool, I like working with students' books and workbooks, because they correspond well with the end-of-year exams, children are obliged to take to be allowed to be homeschooled for the next year. I feel like I cannot let go of the school/work books, because they allow us to go smoothly through all the material the daughter needs to learn. People around me say, that school books are convenient, but very boring for children, and therefore should not be used. They say I should let children learn more naturally. Perhaps that is possible in grades K-3, as this is when the children are expected to learn to read, write, know basic grammar, do some basic maths (the hardest thing being multiplication and division) and acquire random facts about the world. This can be achieved without school books or worksheets. But what about older children?

I tried many times to make our lessons more interesting. I tried playing movies, reading living books, looking things up on the Internet, designing games, making PP presentations and so on - but all this was just time consuming, and meaningless, as the daugher didn't learn anything and/or became bored at some point. When I asked her to narrate to me, what we read/watched/..., she was unable to tell me any significant details. Making her write a notebook page about that is always a struggle too - she doesn't like to write and when forced to do it, uses short and simple sentences like a two year old.

We are working on 5th grade biology now. I try to follow the list of topics we received from school. She was very happy about starting biology, but now she's discouraged, as it starts slowly with cells, living organisms and their body functions, some primitive beings - she hoped to study animals. We take notes on every topic (which actually is me dictating the text), because we will have to send them to school before the exam. I would like her to do this notetaking on her own, but since it is a school document, I feel like I cannot let her ruin the work by writing just two short sentences. At the end of the day, it is only this note that is left as a proof of us studying this particular topic - nothing is left in my daughters memory, as acquiring knowledge would require even more effort, than writing half a page of text. If I want her to memorise some facts, I need to sit with her and force her, listen to her whine and watch her pretend to be unable to construct a full sentence.

I feel very discouraged. She doesn't want to take responsibility for her studies. I don't see any passion or hunger for knowledge in her. Those other parents, I mentioned before, say, that public schools kill all the joy in kids and take away their initiative, but I feel like I am doing the same. They say I should "unschool" myself first. But how? I am not concerned about grades, but I insist on us following the lists of topics given by school. Should I put them aside, let the girl do whatever she wants and then make her start studying a month before the exam? I always feel like she's behind and we don't have time to waste - she still struggles with the multiplication table, has trouble with orthography, her handwriting is a mess, she forgot all the history and science facts we worked on last year and so on and so forth.

Just by writing all that I can see that our work isn't effective. Maybe something does need to change. But what? How? She passed all her exams. Should I let her run loose till September?

Do your children retain what they study? Do they remember only the things that are particularly interesting to them? My daughters learning process seems to be an endless cycle of forgetting things and learning them again and then forgetting them again and learning one more time... Should I make her learn facts by heart and recite them? I alaways wanted her to be able to think independently and draw conclusions, but maybe I expect too much of a ten years old?

What should I do? Can you relate to my situation? Do you have any tips? I feel like I really need help from other homeschooling parents.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Have you read "The Well Trained Mind" by Susan Wise Bauer?  There are a lot of tips there.

Let me answer the last questions:

Do my children retain what they study?  Their retention was cumulative.  They didn't always retain it but as we studied more each year the knowledge built up.  Also- sometimes we all have moments when we can't recall something - especially for a pop quiz or a test.

Do they remember only the things that are particularly interesting to them?  Sure.  We all do.  Or at least we remember them more. 

Learning facts by heart:  Neither of my kids learned their multiplication tables by heart.  One is top of his class in university in a STEM major. 

Thinking independently and drawing conclusions:  Read "The Well Trained Mind".  There are sections in there on child development and how it pertains to learning.  Kids don't really start to think independently and draw conclusions until they are in "logic" and "rhetoric" stage.  There are beginning logic books though to do with a ten year old.

[Little Green Leaves]

It must be really tough having to work so closely with the school system, passing their tests and submitting notes to them for approval. Under those circumstances I don't see how exactly unschooling would help you. 

In your place, I would probably try to follow the school curriculum but also surround your daughter with as many extra sources of information as you can. And don't have her narrate, or write about, the extra material-- just show it to her to provide context. If she likes animals, read books and watch documentaries about animals with no expectation that she'll retain the knowledge. Maybe draw pictures of animals, label their parts, whatever. But only if she enjoys it.

Every time that I try to make school "fun" for my kids, it backfires. I mean sometimes they will grudgingly admit that they enjoyed something. But they like to reserve the right to grumble. So at this point I've accepted this and we do a blend of formal school and fun, totally informal projects and readings. The fun stuff is completely optional and they don't need to produce any output for it. The formal work is not optional.

I also second the advice to read Well Trained Mind!!

Edited May 12, 2020 by Little Green Leaves

[Xahm]

The people around you who are recommending unschooling, what do they do about these exams and turning in of assignments? If their children are managing to unschool and still meet the requirements, maybe you should look at their plans for some ideas. Most of us don't operate under such tight control, so while we can give ideas for how to cover different things and measure progress, they may not be helpful to your situation.

[EKS]

Learning is not always fun.  In fact, I would argue that when a person is really learning new things it is always difficult and the process is rarely (or, more likely, never) experienced as "fun."  But learning can be immensely satisfying--after it is done.  I don't expect children to understand any of this, so when things are difficult, I do my best to make them palatable, but I don't try to inject any "fun."

That said, there is a whole lot about the world that is interesting, and I've spent a huge amount of time, energy, and money finding what's interesting and obtaining resources that present those things in a way that is compelling and meaningful.  It is interest and meaning that has kept my kids happy.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by EKS

[daijobu]

8 hours ago, DoAlBaZo said:

 

I feel very discouraged. She doesn't want to take responsibility for her studies. I don't see any passion or hunger for knowledge in her. Those other parents, I mentioned before, say, that public schools kill all the joy in kids and take away their initiative, but I feel like I am doing the same. They say I should "unschool" myself first. But how? I am not concerned about grades, but I insist on us following the lists of topics given by school. Should I put them aside, let the girl do whatever she wants and then make her start studying a month before the exam? I always feel like she's behind and we don't have time to waste - she still struggles with the multiplication table, has trouble with orthography, her handwriting is a mess, she forgot all the history and science facts we worked on last year and so on and so forth.

Just by writing all that I can see that our work isn't effective. Maybe something does need to change. But what? How? She passed all her exams. Should I let her run loose till September?

Do your children retain what they study? Do they remember only the things that are particularly interesting to them? My daughters learning process seems to be an endless cycle of forgetting things and learning them again and then forgetting them again and learning one more time... Should I make her learn facts by heart and recite them? I alaways wanted her to be able to think independently and draw conclusions, but maybe I expect too much of a ten years old?

What should I do? Can you relate to my situation? Do you have any tips? I feel like I really need help from other homeschooling parents.

 

We had to submit work samples to our homeschooling charter school.  Is that what you mean?  But in elementary, those were really minimal: like a worksheet here and there.  No tests, no notetaking.  

We used BFSU for science.  Neither of my daughters did any notetaking or science exams in elementary or middle school.  Their first experience with science tests was AP chemistry in 9th grade and it was fine.  In place of exams, we did as BFSU described, with the students keeping a science notebook.  At the end of each lesson I would ask them orally questions about that lesson.  As they explained the concept I diagrammed it at the whiteboard, correcting anything they didn't get.  Then they would copy the labeled diagrams into their notebooks.  I would scan and submit pages from their notebook to the charter. 

As to whether they retained anything they learned in middle school, I would say basically no, except for LA and math.  LA because they were writing and reading all the time, so the reminders are built in.  Math because they participated in math contests every week, so they had a chance to use what they had learned even if it was years ago, so they never forgot what they learned.  I think they retained bits of science and history, but not enough that it made a huge difference.  I mean AP chemistry is really out there and beyond anything taught in middle school.  

Midway through middle school, we dropped the charter and filed PSA so we could have more freedom to learn as we pleased.  You might want to consider doing the same if you can do without the money.   

[8filltheheart]

7 hours ago, xahm said:

The people around you who are recommending unschooling, what do they do about these exams and turning in of assignments? If their children are managing to unschool and still meet the requirements, maybe you should look at their plans for some ideas. Most of us don't operate under such tight control, so while we can give ideas for how to cover different things and measure progress, they may not be helpful to your situation.

This.  It is hard to follow the legalities of the situation. 

[bookbard]

The answer is to separate out what is required, and interest-led learning.

Firstly, read "Project-Based Homeschooling" by Lori Pickert. It will help understanding the interest-led stuff and how to begin in.

Secondly, decide on what is required. You might choose to do required work each morning between 9-12 (or whatever suits). You need to make clear this work is required. It's not for fun, it's not negotiable. It's been decided. Make this work very clear to your daughter, break it down into small parts and work on each part until mastery. 

Thirdly, reserve a space and time each day for her interest-led time. This is not about you. Her projects and interests might seem odd to you. But it is the beauty of homeschooling that she has this time and space to follow what she's interested in. Again, read the book above for details.

The secret is not to mix up the two. One is led by you, one is led by her. She may end up being interested in something you've introduced, great. But the goals for the first is to pass exams; the goal for the second is to learn how to be in charge of her own interests. 

Good luck!