Help with school ideas for Kindergartner on the spectrum.

[StaceyinLA]

My daughter has a son on the spectrum. He'll be 5 in a few weeks. He knows a lot, but of course doesn't communicate it all really well. She really wants to start doing some school with him. He doesn't understand some concepts you see in a lot of beginner workbooks, like ordering pictures and things like that, but he memorizes well, can write and identify all letters, knows numbers at least to 20, etc. They've never done anything formal.

Are there any programs that would work especially well for a child like this? He's super into sensory stuff. Manipulatives may work well for him, but she does have two older kids and an infant. I do most of the older kids' school with them, so that would certainly allow her more time with him (they live right next to us). I'm just looking for input on where to begin.

FWIW, he does/will go to group speech twice/week and will likely go to OT as well, but of course that's all been affected for now.

Thanks for any input! 

[PeterPan]

Well if you want my hindsight (which you may not), I would push for someone to do the VMPAC on him and get in home ABA. Even really high IQ kids have holes and the VMPAC would catch them and provide a roadmap for her. These funky things, like the sequencing issues, are going to come back to bite her, and the VMPAC (and similar assessments) is how they find those holes and fill them in.

Everyone assumed we didn't need that on my ds and it was a FIASCO. We continue to need to go back and address stuff. You'll see similar stories if you ask on LC. And some people are like ABA is terrible, but there is a way to get it that is more naturalistic, more umbrella term rather than DTT for all kids. I was told not to bother with ABA for my ds, and that was hogwash. Respectfully done, not strictly, by someone who has a lot of experience of that level of IQ, ABA (as in hours with people working goals) can be really good. It will give her a break and her a way to learn how other people work with him.

Mainly what bringing in inhome workers did was to RAISE THE EXPECTATIONS. SLPs and OTs are not really the same as a behaviors and bringing in workers. They aren't trained in autism and they're just winging it. When we finally brought in a behaviorist, the entire bar got raised on what could be, where he could get to. Huge, huge difference. The SLPs and OTs are not a replacement for that.

He should be doing social thinking materials. She can go to SocialThinking.com and attend workshops, get trained, get materials. The stuff done in the SLP office is not going to carry over unless she's reading the parent letters and applying it. They might not even be getting social thinking materials done. But there's so much more that a behaviorist would do. The SLPs are trying, but if he has language goals *and* Social thinking, that's a challenge. So the more she can do, the more she can apply/extend what they're doing.

I do a lot of my ds' language work at home because I can't get SLPs to do the extent of what needs to be done. 

You know what she'd really like? Training in Play Project or Hanen. Those two, for that age, are hands down the best things for her. There's a thick book for Play Project and sometimes you can find therapists who are doing it. She can do that in addition to the SLP hours, yes. I also like RDI=relationship development intervention. But it's pretty niched. It's fine, but it's niched. But if she can get access to Play Project or Hanen through a clinic, that would be huge. 

Oh my, she has other kids? What a joy that you can help out so much! Well what would *you* like to do with him? This is a dc who will EAT UP interaction. The more you do, the better. It would not be overkill for you to go over there 2 hours a day with a game plan and work with him. Like work with him in the morning and flip to the olders in the afternoon, something like that. And if you're asking what YOU can do, yes read the Play Project book, look at checklists and data collection lists for the VMPAC. Yes, he can work on sequencing and narrative language. Puzzles, frustration tolerance, social. Nuts, start working through the Interoception curriculum with him!! You want to change his life, work on interoception.

So I'll connect some dots for you. Reading comprehension involves following narrative. The stages of narrative development are https://mindwingconcepts.com/pages/methodology  And to progress through the stages, by about stages 3-4 he needs to be recognizing EMOTIONS and how those drive actions, responses, and plans. So to realize emotions in others, he first needs to realize emotions in HIMSELF. And to understand emotions in himself, he needs to realize what he's FEELING. https://www.kelly-mahler.com/what-is-interoception/  

ABA style work is typically going to be multiple short tasks, high structure. It can involve choice, but very brief tasks, bam, bam, bam, so the dc is never overwhelmed. So you could make a list of 5 tasks you'd like to accomplish in 2 hours and do a task, take a break, do a task, take a break. Work up to hitting 10-12 tasks in that two hours. And those tasks/demands could be a lot of those developmentally typical things you're talking about. Anything you know kids normally do that he's not getting, back up to help him get! Dot to dots, lacing, sequencing pictures, sorting items by color/shape, the preschool cards from MFW, games and turn taking, categorizing. All this stuff is done through games typically. 

What is he really into? ASD typically has a perseverative interest, so you're either dealing with that or integrating it. We'll typically say to bring in a secondary perseverative interest, not a primary. https://www.amazon.com/Power-Card-Strategy-2-0-Interests/dp/1942197268/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2ADX5FWGSNY5R&dchild=1&keywords=power+cards+autism&qid=1589292830&sprefix=power+cards%2Caps%2C170&sr=8-3  and https://www.amazon.com/Stuck-Strategies-What-Students-STUCK/dp/1937473996/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3IP67NX3SKDPZ&dchild=1&keywords=stuck+strategies&qid=1589292854&sprefix=stuck+strat%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-1  are really great. Also https://www.amazon.com/Stop-That-Seemingly-Senseless-Behavior/dp/1890627763/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14Y4POWZZVCY9&dchild=1&keywords=stop+that+seemingly+senseless+behavior&qid=1589292880&sprefix=stop+that+seemin%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-1

So basically grandma could be the RBT implementing home plans. If she were to bring in a BCBA, the BCBA could help you make plans and problem solve. My ds needs a very high structure, calm work location. We use strategies like https://autismclassroomresources.com/setting-work-system-stations-workbasket-wednesday/  Christine Reeve has an amazing blog and her TPT store has great stuff. This is stuff I used with ds at that age and they're strategies I still pull out to make things go better. I have a dedicated workspace for ds, a converted bedroom. It was one of the things we changed when the behaviorist came on board. If you google search "resource room" for the ps, you'll see what ideas drive our office space. Independent work table, together work table, book cases and physical barriers to divide each area to make it more cozy, bins of calming tools like soft blankets and sequin weighted animals. He has a table he can go under as his retreat space. Moon chair to curl into. Soft rug with flex seating. I have literally six work spaces now in our office. Took me a long time to figure out how to do that, lol. When he was smaller, I used an old bureau (the long kind) with the mirror off to divide the room into areas. As his body got bigger, that got harder. But the concept is still the same. If the dc is eloping (leaving the space), then having environmental control and the consistency of this is what we do when we get here can really help.

Well good luck and keep asking questions. I'm not saying curriculum, because I never used store curriculum with my ds till maybe like 4th. Seriously. We played lots of games, worked on language, used therapy materials. Obscene amounts of games. When in doubt, play games and buy more games. If he's ready for curriculum, fine. But it's really easy to go for those higher level skills and fail to fill in those holes of social thinking, language, narrative, etc. That will all come back to bite you. And it depends on the support level. In our ps (and it seems like in real life with homeschoolers) ASD1 kids mainstream. My ds is ASD2. His placement for years per his IEP was an ED classroom. He needs significant support and continues to need significant support. So if this dc has a 2 or 3 support level, then that tells you a lot about where the focus needs to be.

[PeterPan]

https://www.amazon.com/Autism-Potential-Project-Approach-Children-ebook/dp/B01FRCBZCM/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=play+projects&qid=1589293368&sr=8-4  Play Project. Kindle version is cheap.

and anything by Hanen https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hanen&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

[PeterPan]

https://difflearn.com  This vendor has great stuff. 

https://www.superduperinc.com

https://www.linguisystems.com/

Also Timberdoodle has a lot of great stuff. I literally just went through and ordered everything they sell for social emotional. My ds is ready, so I'm like fine let's do this. Their curriculum packs fit my ds the best of anything out there. Now granted, my ds has ASD2, 3 SLDs, and is gifted with language delays, so he's just a hot contradictory mess. But their kits are the ONLY thing that has even been CLOSE. I usually just pick and choose things. Right now we're doing the Bonyfide books. We won't do them on their time table but instead are doing all of them over the course of about two years. Ditto with their writing (6 Traits) which we waited on. We're doing it now, 4 grade levels in about 2-3 months. But as far as choices and fit, they've been STELLAR. Whenever I need ideas, that's where I go.

MFW K5 was adorable. Not saying he could do the reading or math, haha. I *may* do the MFW ECC with ds. I *think* he might be ready for that. I'm sort of crazy with MFW because I like the structure and predictability and go crazy wanting to do more. But yeah, any of their lower level plans, not for the academics so much as the enrichment, could be really good. 

MP has some art cards we really liked. We never finished them. What we LOVED was art books where you would search for things together. Not the super busy where's waldo stuff but more calm with actual art. We worked through a bunch of them. I can get the tittles if you don't already have something like that. Just so peaceful, looking for the 8 items or whatever. HIGHLY recommend weaving in activities like that.

My ds is also a sleeper. He likes Shakespeare, opera, lite opera (Gilbert & Sullivan). He liked dancing to the classical music cd from the MFW K5. 

To me, you're always trying to ply so many directions with him. He has these restricted interests, and you're like how could I chain, how could I expand your world and help you realize you'll enjoy something if you give it the chance, kwim? So arts are really worthy to bring into the day. They are an area where his disabilities are not affecting his access.

We LOVED the Djeco art kits Timberdoodle sells. They're constantly changing the kits, so just see. We did sand art, different kinds. They're not too expensive, very fun. We did books of folding paper airplanes. The Kumon cut/fold/paste books were awesome. We did a bunch of those early Kumon workbooks, highly recommend.

So it wasn't so much a curriculum. It was a list of 10-12 things spread across a range of goals, some disability and some just enriching and making his world bigger.

[PeterPan]

https://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Forge-Richard-Scarrys-Busytown/dp/B002V3RCE6/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=richard+scarry+games&qid=1589294101&sr=8-1  Here's an example of a game with lots of language. 

Also consider cooperative games like https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Board-Secret-Family-Pastimes/dp/B00000IUFA/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=secret+door+game&qid=1589294139&sr=8-1  

Target has great taste in games. You can never go wrong with more games, lol. Catan Jr. is great for that age, Uno, etc.

[PeterPan]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0058M6N8I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Here's one of those Can You Find It? books. There's a whole series. Also https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0810945975/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 because we Babar. We got the Babar stuffed animals and read Babar every morning at that age. My ds still likes stuffed animals. Can't go wrong with them. 

We read some FIAR books. If you have them lying around, go for it. Some of the activities worked. Sometimes we'd do them and then he'd rip them up, sigh. There's also a pre-FIAR that he might like first.

Crafts are good. We did the Kumon stuff, but we also got some craft/art books from Abeka that were nice. We had Williamson Press books. Whatever you've got lying around. 

If you're working a list and building up his stamina, then it's really easy to read a picture book and do the craft together, kwim? And you just alternate demand/task, break task. Even breaks can be together. We looked for break activities that fit my ds' need. He needed to learn to be more GENTLE and controlled, so we did a lot with a basket of beanie babies. He could play war with them and get out his need to throw and be rough. Or we could do the same thing with cotton balls and work on that modulation. Or we could give him feedback like ouch too hard, kwim? So even breaks were together and instructional, not just wandering off. Anything that he's struggling to do with his siblings, for instance, would be a good target for the adults to work on in breaks. If he's a pain in the butt for nintendo, then play nintendo with him for breaks and tell him ahead of time what the goal/expectation is (we're going to take turns, lets stomp our foot instead of yelling if we're frustrated, etc.). I paid inhome workers to play nintendo with my ds, lol. Seriously. Because his issues there affected his ability to do it with other kids, meaning he needed an adult to come alongside and teach him how. And I'm not good enough to play nintendo and do that, so I paid someone, lol.

Edited May 12, 2020 by PeterPan

[StaceyinLA]

Thank you so much for all the information! I’m a little confused because I have no clue what all the abbreviations in the first post mean.

[PeterPan]

On 5/12/2020 at 10:04 PM, StaceyinLA said:

I have no clue what all the abbreviations in the first post mean.

You can just google RBT and it will pop up. Ditto for VMPAC. That's literally what they're called in conversation. ASD=autism. So when in doubt, google the acronym plus ASD and you'll find it.

[StaceyinLA]

Okay. I know ASD, but the other stuff was throwing me off. I am fairly new to all this. Thank you again for all the information!

[PeterPan]

And feel free to come over to LC and ask more questions! 

[StaceyinLA]

Okay I finally got to really read through this and make notes. Thank you again. I honestly am not sure whether he's ASD1 or ASD2. He was going to a group speech class at a highly sought after therapy school associated with the university. He was on a waiting list for a few months. His OT eval had to be postponed due to Covid. I'm gonna look into your suggestion about the ABA.

I feel like he does fairly well with day-day stuff at home with family. We rarely have outbursts unless trying to stop him from doing something he really loves before he's ready (like playing the sand or something). He's gotten much better about sharing and taking turns with cousins his age and younger, which was unheard of a year ago. He talks a lot, but does have some issues with pronunciation. His speech has come a LONG way in a year for sure.

He shares a room with his older brother, and their house is on the small side, so setting up a space like you mentioned may be difficult, although there may be some things we could do. He's not hyperfocused on anything in particular as far as toys/activities. He plays with a lot of different things, love play-doh and kinetic sand, loves games, marbles, rolling things on tracks, etc., but I feel like he has a pretty good variety and nothing he's really obsessed with (I have an older nephew on the spectrum who was hyper-focused on certain things when he was younger, and would go nuts if you'd touch them).

The big thing with him would be instruction for sure. He doesn't comprehend things in the sense that you could give him directions to do something and he'd follow them. He has just now gotten to where if you tell him to go into another room and get something, he will actually do it regularly. He's smart though, and can memorize anything. I know dd wants to capitalize on that right now, even if it's through games, songs, etc.

I'm gonna order the Play Project book you recommended on my Kindle, and dd and I will both read it. I'm definitely coming over to the LC board.

[73349]

It sounds like one good thing to practice with him would be prepositions (not identifying them as such, but distinguishing among them).

You might try with toys at first. "The teddy bear is beside the lion. Is that true, or not true?" ...  And then go on to selecting the correct picture from a pair: "The red circle is under the yellow triangle. Which picture looks like that?" And then from a larger group of pictures: "Which one shows a boy inside a house?"
And then maybe he can start to tell you. "Where is the cat?" "It's beside the chair."

Having a good level of facility with these words may make it easier to go into the bedroom and get the socks from the top drawer, or look on the table for my red pen.

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

The big thing with him would be instruction for sure. He doesn't comprehend things in the sense that you could give him directions to do something and he'd follow them. He has just now gotten to where if you tell him to go into another room and get something, he will actually do it regularly. 

Yes, following directions is a pretty normal thing to need to work on. Just for your trivia, how is his ability to repeat a random sentence? Like if you read him a Bible verse, can he say it back? Can he do Awana? It would be nice to think that the following directions thing is being hard to work with or having short working memory, but more typically it's a language issue. Ability to repeat a sentence is a very gross test of language comprehension. It's like the difference between you repeating a sentence I read to you from Chronicles of Narnia (in English) vs. something I say to you in Russian. Your ability to repeat would go down dramatically because the chunks you were hearing would have no meaning. 

So yes, I'm pretty sure following directions (and the precursor language skills for that) will be on the VMPAC. It's something they address in school and therapy. You can also buy workbooks on it. We had all kinds. DeGaetano has some really great ones, but there are also a lot of fun cut and paste, circle this, color that kind of worksheets to do it. It's good to work it lots of ways. At the most basic level, notice what he *can* comprehend for instructions and then just keep stretching it. The number of tasks or the complexity (with prepositions, etc.), yes. They're usually going to say a skill needs to be done in 6 areas/ways to begin to generalize, so it's never overkill to keep working on it. 

https://www.superduperinc.com/products/view.aspx?pid=HBBK55&s=webber-hearbuilder-following-directions-fun-sheets  Something to get you started. But there are other great products. Magnetalk (same site) s really great. There is software if she wants something independent. And generalize it, doing it across life. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by PeterPan