Square_25: What happened to AoPS self-paced courses?

[daijobu]

This is for @square_25 or anyone else with insider knowledge of AoPS.  I've heard that AoPS will not be expanding their self-paced courses beyond prealgebra.  They say the self-paced courses weren't "as effective as our weekly live one at helping students successfull complete the course."  

Do you have any insight into what happened to these self-paced students, or why you think it wasn't successful?  

[Condessa]

Oh, that’s too bad.  Those self-paced courses seem like such a good idea—I just wish they weren’t so expensive.  It just seems to me like doing an automated program with teacher support when necessary shouldn’t cost the exact same amount as taking a class with full instruction.

[Kathy in Richmond]

I just chatted with my insider (my dd who works at AoPS lol).

She said that while the self-paced courses were popular, they discovered that they weren't successful in motivating the same proportion of students to complete their courses.

So, rather than continuing to develop additional fully self-paced courses, their next big push will be to add new features/ updates to their classic weekly live courses. The aim is to meet the needs of a wider variety of kids while still having enough structure to keep them working & finishing their courses. Stay tuned for more info! 🙂

And she added that they're always happy to talk to parents of students in their courses who need an extension schedule or tips on effectively using the online classes. Just reach out by email with any concerns or questions...

[EKS]

I would think that having courses with a slower pace might be a good compromise between the crazy pace of the current courses and no pace at all (self-paced).

[wendyroo]

5 hours ago, Kathy in Richmond said:

So, rather than continuing to develop additional fully self-paced courses, their next big push will be to add new features/ updates to their classic weekly live courses. The aim is to meet the needs of a wider variety of kids while still having enough structure to keep them working & finishing their courses. Stay tuned for more info! 🙂

 

What I don't understand is the timing of the classes.  99% of all AOPS classes are offered from 7:30 to 9pm in my time zone.  There is no way my son could possibly focus at that time of night.  I am baffled by the resistance or inability to offer classes at a variety of times so that kids in a variety of time zones could take advantage of them.  Take Geometry for example - there were 5 classes that all started in April, two on Mondays, three on Wednesdays, all during the exact same time slot.  In fact, there are no Geometry, Python, or Algebra 2 classes this entire semester that aren't being held during that same time slot.  That seems like the antithesis of "meeting the needs of a wider variety of kids".

[madteaparty]

Maybe they will add classes with faces. Few things were detested more here than that text based approach, but maybe for DD there will be another go. 

[madteaparty]

8 hours ago, wendyroo said:

What I don't understand is the timing of the classes.  99% of all AOPS classes are offered from 7:30 to 9pm in my time zone.  There is no way my son could possibly focus at that time of night.  I am baffled by the resistance or inability to offer classes at a variety of times so that kids in a variety of time zones could take advantage of them.  Take Geometry for example - there were 5 classes that all started in April, two on Mondays, three on Wednesdays, all during the exact same time slot.  In fact, there are no Geometry, Python, or Algebra 2 classes this entire semester that aren't being held during that same time slot.  That seems like the antithesis of "meeting the needs of a wider variety of kids".

I don’t get the impression there’s many homeschool kids taking these classes (despite the AOPS love on this board). It’s kids who are in school doubling up on math, and so in that case, 7pm makes sense. “Late” (after sports) bus would get to my door at 6pm if I had kids in school. 

[Kathy in Richmond]

Wendy - Yes, I get it about the timing. I was an AoPS mom for years on the east coast.  My kids didn't start the online classes till age 12, and even then not much. We mainly found them to be in sync with the kids' natural rhythms in high school. And madteaparty is correct; the vast majority of their students are schooled kids who are taking classes at the end of the day. And lots of the teachers have careers & are teaching in their "free" time, too.

Right now, though, AoPS is offering a few earlier time slots because of the Covid craziness. Maybe it'll stick? At least they're trying it out.

ETA: AoPS has tried earlier time slots in the past & hasn't been able to fill them up. Since they're discussion based, they want a critical mass of students to have them run well. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Kathy in Richmond
additional info

[mathnerd]

17 hours ago, wendyroo said:

What I don't understand is the timing of the classes.  99% of all AOPS classes are offered from 7:30 to 9pm in my time zone.  There is no way my son could possibly focus at that time of night.  I am baffled by the resistance or inability to offer classes at a variety of times so that kids in a variety of time zones could take advantage of them.  Take Geometry for example - there were 5 classes that all started in April, two on Mondays, three on Wednesdays, all during the exact same time slot.  In fact, there are no Geometry, Python, or Algebra 2 classes this entire semester that aren't being held during that same time slot.  That seems like the antithesis of "meeting the needs of a wider variety of kids".

@wendyroo I am on the west coast and my son is in sport activities every single day in the evenings and there are timing conflicts even though AOPS operates on PST. We usually wait for a Sunday class to enroll because there is no other way to make online classes work for us.

AOPS is beginning to offer the shorter courses at an earlier time because public schools are out in the west coast and that would help fill the seats (1:00 pm PST). Their classes tend to be large (80-100 kids per session when my son took it) and they need enough participants. Since schools are out and summer camps might be canceled this year, there will be enough enrollment for shorter classes earlier in the day and they could finish the coursework in the July/August time frame.

It is harder for them to offer a super long course like Geometry at an earlier time (more than 20 weeks longs) because most of the west coast PS kids will drop out if school starts in the Fall even if they enroll in them in summer. The majority of clientele at AOPS (both online and at their academies) are the mathy PS kids who take the classes for the challenge that is lacking in school instruction. Those kids are used to longer hours for after schooling, anyway. My son also said that many kids in his online classes were from China, Hong Kong and Korea. 

If Covid keeps PS kids out of schools in the Fall, we could see more flexible timing for AOPS online classes.

[kiwik]

On 5/12/2020 at 8:55 AM, Michelle Conde said:

Oh, that’s too bad.  Those self-paced courses seem like such a good idea—I just wish they weren’t so expensive.  It just seems to me like doing an automated program with teacher support when necessary shouldn’t cost the exact same amount as taking a class with full instruction.

Ds13 did the beta testing for the self based.  He was so slow he did both versions and liked the second better - the first was just like usin the textbook and doing alcamus but the second was more interactive.  I thought they would be a bit cheaper than the full version but not cheap as they do involve some teacher help.  I don't see them taking off without some price advantage.