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Our shelter in place just got extended through May 30 and people are DONE


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7 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I am not doubting anyone as I am not boots on the ground in another state. But likewise you cannot say people in states that are opening up before they are "ready" have people living recklessly based on pictures or politician words. People are being careful regardless of what is going on in politics because they want their families to be safe which is the biggest motivation anyone can in my experience. Ultimately that will what will control it, people being individually responsible ,not shutting down and have us all be inside without opening up in stages.

I’ve only talked about my city in my state. 

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1 minute ago, Dreamergal said:

You report what you see, I report what I see. You and I cannot generalize based on behavior that people are being generally reckless or generally safe. The truth is somewhere in the middle. What I see is even in a state where there is concern that actions of politicians are reckless in opening and leans a particular way in politics, I do not see reckless behavior in my area but that does not mean it does not exist. But in my sphere of knowledge, even people who lean a certain way politically are being careful for their families, not take a stand on politics is what I will say. Safe behavior still exists. 

I have no knowledge of your state and do not doubt anything you are saying about your location.  I am only making reports about my city in my state. I am not generalizing or attempting to say the majority are or are not being safe (however one defines it) all over the country or about any particular place of which I have no knowledge. I have commented at times about the bars opening up and being crowded in WI because it was widely reported in the news and by on the ground family members and my mom just moved to a town there with a large, active bar scene. But otherwise, just my own city in my own state.

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3 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Me too. Only my state and my city. But since mine leans a certain way and is one of those opened "recklessly",  I wanted to mention it and say what I see. Perhaps it would be reassuring, perhaps not.

 

The thing is, once states "open up" personal choice goes out the window. Why? Because you can't get unemployment if your job is still available. So once states "open up" individuals who cannot work from home and who do not have a financial cushion no longer will be able to purchase food or pay the rent if they do not go to work - even if they're high risk, or live with somebody who is high risk. There is no "right to work", not honestly, unless you correspondingly have the "right to stay home and not get a disease that will likely kill you because you are high risk". This is the "right to starve".

Edited by Tanaqui
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18 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think we've heard enough people describe lots of people without masks to know that this really is happening some places. Masks really have become politicized, unfortunately. I wish they hadn't. 

Masks and HCQ - both sides of the divide are doing it.

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

Yeah, but we don't have to make personal decisions about hydroxychloroquine day to day. And on a medical level, there are absolutely trials being run.

I agree. Actually I was kind of wondering just now which of the 2 will prove to have saved more lives.

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If the block party next door with 15+ kids on an inflatable waterside and various adults in a non-socially distanced circle under a pop up shade is any indication, no one here is being as cautious as I am. This party is literally right over our fence. I am really sad about keeping my kids apart from everyone. And I'm sad about being the weirdo.

I keep waffling thinking it might be okay because everyone is outdoors.  But there is a lot of wrestling with kids on top of each other and the little girls are so huggy.

On the upside, friends of ours in another neighborhood are letting us use their pool one afternoon a week and we socialize on the patio with chairs 6ft apart.

Edited by EmseB
not sure what my phone is typing when I'm not looking???
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2 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Yes, 1% is still a lot. Spanish Flu killed 5% of the population in my native country and it was in the millions. So I do understand it. But starvation kills too, perhaps not in America but in many countries around the world. Lack of medical care for other diseases. Recently there was an increase in polio because of COVID and politics. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/polio-was-almost-eradicated-then-came-the-coronavirus-then-came-a-threat-from-president-trump/2020/05/15/ed9d26fe-831c-11ea-81a3-9690c9881111_story.html

So what is the balance ? Is it wrong to say we need a balance ? The world does not stop or things like vaccine preventable diseases or cancer that can be detected early or heart attacks that need ICU. We cannot put the world on pause for COVID until a proven treatment is found or a vaccine. Just not sustainable in my view. 

This is a huge concern for friends of mine around the world.  Third world countries can not shut down and have enough food and medical care.   If medical clinics are shut down, rates of other diseases will go up, more children dying from malnutrition and diarrhea.

Even here in Michigan, my doctor was open and got me fast tracked through testing for possible cancer (negative).  She said though that so many people were ending up in ER because either their doctors officers were closed or they were too scared to go in .....and they ended up in diabetic crisis, heart issues, and other issues that could have been kept from crisis status with access to routine be care.

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8 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Asking people to look at the science is not being political.

I agree. But honestly my personal opinion is that it is more than just asking people to look at the science for both of those. My personal opinion is that masks have been more politicized than HCQ, but I think that it seems to be true of both. 

Edited by TCB
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3 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

It is absolutely above my pay grade or honestly my intelligence to figure an answer to this. But these cannot be reasons we can shut down entirely is what I will say. I keep hearing all sorts of things like Maine saying every teacher about 60 must retire ? I do not know what is truth, what is fantasy and what is politicized "truth". We truly live in the age of truthiness. 

 

Dreamergal, who told you that they wanted to "shut down entirely"? Or, if nobody told you that personally, where did you hear that anybody wants this?

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Well, at the moment, HCQ isn't showing great results in trials, and countries with high mask usage have FAR fewer deaths than we do. So I'm going to go with masks. 

But it's possible SOME treatment will work better than masks. I'd like that, because it's not like I like covering my face up :-P. 

I would love to see some good data on masks too. It makes sense intuitively to me that it protects others from the wearer but I would love to see cold, hard facts.

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think that one's a little hard to study like that, because it's a collective action issue. It's not like you can give some people masks and others no masks and see how each group does, because your mask protects other people more than you. There's no randomized controlled trial for this one. 

I think looking at how the Asian countries have done and the fact that in NY, healthcare workers had fewer antibodies than the entire population is enough for me. Plus it simply makes sense, given that most superspreader events have been due to aerosolized particles. 

I suppose we might wind up doing some natural experiments between the states, but even that's not going to be an RCT level of evidence. 

I wasn’t really thinking RCT. More maybe some study in a lab measuring virus particles going through them etc. under sneeze and cough conditions. I think there has been some of this but my impression of the whole thing has been more educated guesses than anything. I think maybe scientists think it’s obvious so not worth bothering - don’t know. My FB friends keep posting crackpot stuff saying masks are dangerous for the wearer. I’ve asked one or two why they think this but the studies they linked aren’t really saying that and I’ve sort of given up discussing now. If we get more spread in this area maybe they’ll be more open to discussion but I don’t hold out too much hope.

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2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Off-topic:

Yeast packets are back in stock at Whole Foods. They have two types of hand sanitizer too, a small spray bottle and a bigger non-spray bottle.

Get it quick before the next onslaught lol!

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2 minutes ago, TCB said:

Get it quick before the next onslaught lol!

I did buy the yeast since my first attempt at making my own sourdough starter fail. 
 

Didn’t buy the sanitizer. I am waiting for isopropyl alcohol to be back in stock.

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https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52786242?__twitter_impression=true
 

40 people contracted coronavirus from a church service in Germany after lockdown restrictions eased.  They disinfected the church before the service and followed all social distancing guidelines.

cant remember if this was the thread where we talked about churches so apologies if it’s wrong.  Hard to keep track now of all the different conversations.

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27 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I would say that's an indication, yes :-/. And I'm sorry your neighbors are being so reckless. I assume no one has had the virus nearby? 

No, we've had a couple cases locally. My situation is complicated and super weird because I am on a military base. I can't know the number of cases in base due to DoD policy, but I do know there have been cases. They are folded into county numbers. Supposedly gatherings of 10 or more people are banned on base. Enforcement is minimal.

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1 hour ago, TCB said:

I agree. But honestly my personal opinion is that it is more than just asking people to look at the science for both of those. My personal opinion is that masks have been more politicized than HCQ, but I think that it seems to be true of both. 

You can’t see if someone is taking HCQ. And it isn’t being required to enter certain stores. Though I am a bit surprised if doctors are prescribing it outside of actual studies. Though I haven’t asked my doctor for it so maybe it’s easy to get and I just don’t know about it. (I will say though that from being on anti malaria meds in the past that the drug I took was extremely hard on my tummy. As in I often threw up after taking whatever it was. I don’t remember the name of the drug. ). 

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2 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Nor any unreasonable fear of being tortured forever, so there is that. I know not all Christians believe in Hell, but I find the idea profoundly immoral, no matter what the people there are supposed to have done.

Actually, you could be an atheist and still believe in some sort of afterlife. It's an odd position, to be sure, but atheism just means you don't believe in deities. You could believe in other supernatural entities or an afterlife and still honestly call yourself an atheist.

Huh weird that had never occurred to me

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4 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Not doubting anyone. But that is not the general behavior is what I am saying. You are not going to hear the stories about people wearing masks, but anyone not wearing will get attention. But based on experience, even in a state where individual liberty matters people are being responsible and not reckless because of some political stand. They are being safe for their families. 

Here’s self reported polling info on mask wearing from MN. It shows a clear political divide with 92% of Democrats and only 53% of Republicans reporting mask wearing in the previous week. Women were also more likely to wear them than men.

https://www.startribune.com/political-divide-evident-even-in-wearing-masks-minnesota-poll-finds/570709122/
 

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9 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

I second this. I am in the land of the free too and what I am seeing is nothing irresponsible. Who are these people who are irresponsible ??? Everyone in my neighborhood is leaning towards paranoid sanitizing. We may die of bleach fumes than COVID 😂

I'm in TX too (austin area). I'm seeing a lot masked when I'm out -- but there are a LOT of places I'm not out at at all and I see the posts in our local community about refusing to go to any store that requires masking, etc. And the news stories about stores that opened even before "allowed" -- so I'm worried at how close it all seems to anarchy. I even had to convince my own mother to wear a mask when she did go out -- she's not really that concerned. Is staying inside/masking as much as she is to make me happy (I'm the one in our family the most concerned)  -- But even they have made changes (went to houston to get treatment for their dog with heartworms but didn't get out of the car in Houston except to hand dog off to vet and was circumspect about stopping otherwise. etc)

 

And my boss is starting to put some encouragement on me to come work in the office again. I was there Friday though and everyone at the meeting was masked (and we could hear each other just fine). And putting on masks when going to visit, though they kind of laughed the first time I went in with my homemade mask.  (They provided bandanas as the state required mask.)

 

Edited by vonfirmath
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12 hours ago, Frances said:

Here’s self reported polling info on mask wearing from MN. It shows a clear political divide with 92% of Democrats and only 53% of Republicans reporting mask wearing in the previous week. Women were also more likely to wear them than men.

https://www.startribune.com/political-divide-evident-even-in-wearing-masks-minnesota-poll-finds/570709122/
 

I believe it!   I do think the governor here is really working hard to unite the parties and make this more about Minnesotans.  Now that we're opening up slowly, I'd guess I see 75% of people with masks on (in the limited areas I'm in, that is!).  In Minneapolis, masks are now required in any indoor public place, or you're not allowed inside.  St. Paul hasn't yet made it a requirement, but a lot of stores there require it anyway.  (Those are our two biggest cities.)  Stores are working really hard to socially distance customers now are opening -- placing restrictions on number of people inside, stickers on the floor, etc.   Some stores don't allow children under 16.  Restaurants can only serve outdoors, and if they currently don't have that space, the cities are working with zoning laws to try and block off parts of parking lots and roads.  I haven't been seeing the party crowds that others talk about, but we'll see how this weekend plays out.  (Probably helps that it's raining!)   Our numbers are still rising and expect to double from I think last week to the end of July.

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10 hours ago, square_25 said:

 

I'm sure. That's why we should make sure it's safe for them to not be isolated. 

This is a quandary.  What does "safe" mean?  I don't think it will ever mean 0% chance that they get this, or any other, coronavirus, or influenza, or measles, or are in a car accident, or participate in an activity in which they fall and break their hip.  How do we even begin to define safe.  And who decides this?  Are the seniors part of that discussion?  

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10 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

I second this. I am in the land of the free too and what I am seeing is nothing irresponsible. Who are these people who are irresponsible ??? Everyone in my neighborhood is leaning towards paranoid sanitizing. We may die of bleach fumes than COVID 😂

 

Y'all need to come to my little town in Texas. People here are no longer wearing masks.  No one is sanitizing anything anymore.  My store stopped handing out wipes at the door for carts. Half of the clerks aren't wearing masks.  The town is planning a 4th of July parade and fireworks show and "recommends" that people wear masks and socially distance, but will not be enforcing it.

If anyone questions why people aren't wearing masks, you get yelled at that if you are too scared, then maybe you should stay home, or better yet, get out of Texas. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

It is absolutely above my pay grade or honestly my intelligence to figure an answer to this. But these cannot be reasons we can shut down entirely is what I will say. I keep hearing all sorts of things like Maine saying every teacher about 60 must retire ? I do not know what is truth, what is fantasy and what is politicized "truth". We truly live in the age of truthiness. 

Huh?

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15 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

How come there isn't more information available about the places coming close to ICU capacity?   Everybody seemed to know what was happening in NYC, but on here is the first time I've heard that other places may be in trouble.   

🤷‍♀️ 
Most recent stats are that my county has 2 open ICU beds, and 4 medical/surgical beds. We have 2 hospitals. To little ole me, that doesn’t sound like enough to be loosening restrictions like we are (and earlier than planned, to boot!)

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11 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I did buy the yeast since my first attempt at making my own sourdough starter fail. 
 

Didn’t buy the sanitizer. I am waiting for isopropyl alcohol to be back in stock.

Aww. If you weren’t a billion miles away from me, I would drive you over some starter. 

That’s one good thing I have learned since COVID. - how to make all the things with starter only. I do still have some regular yeast but I have been challenging myself to totally not use it. 

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

no social distancing here

disclaimer - I have no idea who the dude who tweeted this is

Don’t know who he is but this is almost certainly true - very close to me - many people completely unconcerned and very concerned that nothing should impose upon their liberty!

ETA Most of those people are probably from St Louis and Kansas City

Edited by TCB
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59 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Yes, seniors are part of this discussion.

I can’t say that I know exactly how to define safe, but having a very contagious and deadly for them virus spreading through the population is probably not it.

The seniors here are done.  They are sick of being isolated.  At a local senior facility, they staged a protest and walked out last week— hobbled out the doors together with their walkers and wheelchairs and sat out on the grass together in the sunshine.  They have not been allowed to leave the facility for outings or have family visits for months.  Now they’ve told the management that it is over—literally announced that they would rather die, and that if management didn’t end the facility lockdown now, they would all be pulling their contracts as a block and leaving.

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10 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I'm a Democrat and a mask wearer.  I don't understand this at all.  The Republicans I know are very concerned about the economy, and the need to open up.  Surely cutting down on transmission is going to be key to reducing damage to the economy.

On the other side, I have Democratic friends who seem to want HCQ not to work, just because Trump likes it. I hope every solution we can find works.  It doesn't surprise me that HCQ isn't the single miracle drug, because my experience tells me to expect that in the end there will be lots of drugs needed and lots of subtle factors about which combination is right one for each person, and lots of side effects to balance.  It seems like HCQ fits well into that expectation.

That's probably the biggest thing about all this I don't understand.   IF you are in the "open up NOW" category, why wouldn't you be pushing masks?  That is the easiest way to control spread at this point.   I realize not everyone can wear masks, blah blah blah, but if those who can, do it could make a huge difference.

(I actually know the answer to my own confusion - people don't believe the virus is real, or going to affect them, or it's all a conspiracy, blah blah blah).

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5 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

Y'all need to come to my little town in Texas. People here are no longer wearing masks.  No one is sanitizing anything anymore.  My store stopped handing out wipes at the door for carts. Half of the clerks aren't wearing masks.  The town is planning a 4th of July parade and fireworks show and "recommends" that people wear masks and socially distance, but will not be enforcing it.

If anyone questions why people aren't wearing masks, you get yelled at that if you are too scared, then maybe you should stay home, or better yet, get out of Texas. 

People in your town are yelling at you about wearing a mask?  Where do you live?  I'm a native Texan, and though every person in our state is imperfect, it's been my experience that we're a pretty friendly bunch.  That is very sad and I'm sorry you're experiencing such hostility!

You probably know this, but masks and distancing cannot legally be enforced by any city or county in Texas, per Gov. Abbott's order.  I think that's a good thing, though you probably disagree.  I wouldn't yell at you about our differences of opinion, nor would I suggest you leave.  🙂

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3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

no social distancing here

disclaimer - I have no idea who the dude who tweeted this is

You know, I have seen a lot of tweets like this in various forms (crowded parks, crosswalks with a lot of people, protest crowds, whatever) come across my feed in the last six weeks and the threads are filled with people saying that in two weeks hospitals are going to be full, these people will be sick, there will be a spike. And yet, I never see anyone come back around with the reporting that it there was a spike. I feel like in the sun and chlorine and in the open air, transmission would be very low.

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4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

And why is that a good thing? 

Well, isn't the science still out on whether masks add any benefit to enhanced hygiene and distancing?  The masking message has been mixed from the beginning, and people living in places that aren't terribly hard-hit don't feel the same urgency to mask as those where you live. 

In Texas, as things stand now, there's no reason for county or city officials to have the power to lock everyone down or force them to mask. 

Me?  I think people should mask, just in case they help slow the spread.  I think we should keep our distance from those who don't live with us and that we should avoid crowds, but I don't agree that these things should be required under penalty of fines or jail time.  We've been open for a while and our cases are not out of control.

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26 minutes ago, square_25 said:

And why is that a good thing? 

I take it you don't think wearing masks is a good idea (let me know if I'm wrong.) Why is that? 

Everyone in my family wears a mask in public, just in case it helps slow the spread.  I sure it hope it does, because I'm not looking forward to masking in August!

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27 minutes ago, EmseB said:

You know, I have seen a lot of tweets like this in various forms (crowded parks, crosswalks with a lot of people, protest crowds, whatever) come across my feed in the last six weeks and the threads are filled with people saying that in two weeks hospitals are going to be full, these people will be sick, there will be a spike. And yet, I never see anyone come back around with the reporting that it there was a spike. I feel like in the sun and chlorine and in the open air, transmission would be very low.

I think there are people out there who are very afraid when they see scenes like this that there will be a spike in cases, and others out there who sort-of hope there will.  (See?  See what happens?)

I wouldn't have enjoyed being in that crowd pre-Covid.  

Edited by DoraBora
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6 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

I think there are people out there who are very afraid when they see scenes like this that there will be a spike in cases, and others out there who sort-of hope there will.  (See?  See what happens?)

I wouldn't have enjoyed being in that crowd pre-Covid.  

Well this time I may be able to let you know what happens because this is my back yard. Great if the risk outside is low but they will also be crowded together inside. I’d love to think they’ve analyzed the risk and are only crowded together outside with lots of chlorine splashing around.

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8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I don't think there's going to be very straightforward science about any of this, because how would you even study this in a controlled way? There's evidence, though. People are updating guidelines (too late, frankly) given the evidence. 

I think decreasing people's ability to implement public health measure will not increase local government ability. 

Current estimates are that there is a higher percentage of Texans currently infected than there are New Yorkers currently infected. People are wearing masks here not because it's currently worse here, but because they've gone through this already and it was traumatic. it would be much better if people wore masks before the trauma, not after. 

I'm glad you're wearing a mask! I hope it helps, too. Are others in your town doing so or no? 

Most people wear them in grocery stores in my little corner of the world, though a lot of the (young) employees pull them down below their noses.  (I get it.  They're hot.)   Most people seem to wear them in office buildings and banks.  At Home Depot yesterday, about two-thirds(?) of the customers were wearing them, and that was in the garden center, outdoors.

Some people don't, but I have yet to hear anyone yell at anyone about wearing a mask or not wearing one.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TCB said:

Well this time I may be able to let you know what happens because this is my back yard. Great if the risk outside is low but they will also be crowded together inside. I’d love to think they’ve analyzed the risk and are only crowded together outside with lots of chlorine splashing around.

Yeah, my next door neighbor works at a CVS pharmacy.  She was sent home a month or so ago because one of the employees had tested positive.  She hosted a party that weekend!  Argh!  People in and out of her house and in the backyard.  We were under county stay-at-home orders at the time, so she shouldn't have been having a party anyway.

It all seemed to be okay in the end, but she took quite a chance.

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3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Ooooooh, that makes me worried. I do not want there to be outdoor spread. It sounds we don't have details about how many people got infected? 

I wonder if a pool party is slightly higher risk than other outdoor events because there tends to be a bit more yelling and spitting out water etc.  also we don’t know for sure what was involved may have been some indoor time as well.

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45 minutes ago, EmseB said:

You know, I have seen a lot of tweets like this in various forms (crowded parks, crosswalks with a lot of people, protest crowds, whatever) come across my feed in the last six weeks and the threads are filled with people saying that in two weeks hospitals are going to be full, these people will be sick, there will be a spike. And yet, I never see anyone come back around with the reporting that it there was a spike. I feel like in the sun and chlorine and in the open air, transmission would be very low.

Yes.  We had the couple here that went to the real estate auction and i thought cases would definitely take off but there was nothing.  
 

I read and I think shared an interesting thing yesterday.  Apparently as well as RO there is another number they look at.  So for an r0 of 2 we assume everyone infects two people but in fact with some viruses it’s more like 9 people infect no one and the last infects 20.  They think covid may be more like that.

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21 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

I think there are people out there who are very afraid when they see scenes like this that there will be a spike in cases, and others out there who sort-of hope there will.  (See?  See what happens?)

I wouldn't have enjoyed being in that crowd pre-Covid.  

Same here.

The most disturbing replies are from people who say that they deserve what's coming to them.

I mean, in my mind,, the best outcome would be that people would be able to do stuff like this (as much as it's not my cup of tea) and we would see no one getting sick from it. Because if that's the case, I will feel better about kids in the neighborhood playing together, etc.

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1 minute ago, EmseB said:

Same here.

The most disturbing replies are from people who say that they deserve what's coming to them.

I mean, in my mind,, the best outcome would be that people would be able to do stuff like this (as much as it's not my cup of tea) and we would see no one getting sick from it. Because if that's the case, I will feel better about kids in the neighborhood playing together, etc.

Where is it that people are saying they deserve what’s coming to them. I’ve seen several people saying that but don’t know where they are seeing it.

Just read that a place local to us usually sees 400-500 visitors on Memorial Weekend and so far they’ve had over 900.

 

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4 minutes ago, kand said:

I’ve read that the virus is very unstable around pool water and easily killed. That seems good for things like outdoor lap swimming. A pool party suggests close proximity and interaction though. And no masks, clearly.  I definitely can see The respiratory droplets flying in that situation. 

But if people are swimming and such, I feel like most of your sinuses and mucous membranes would be washed with chlorinated water at some point, even just incidentally. This makes me just want to know more:

"Hutchinson did not say how many people attended the party or subsequently tested positive for the COVID-19 virus."

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Because the US hasn't done consistent contact tracing, we don't have firm numbers on spikes from certain events.  I have seen though people do their own reports of having gotten sick at various parties.  If they hadn't done that (usually because it has changed their mind on the virus and now they are warning people of the dangers) we wouldn't really know. 

Also - it is a huge crap shoot.  You could have a party with a bunch of people with no COVID to spread.  So no matter how many droplets are in the air, they won't be COVID droplets.  You could have another event with a number of COVID spreaders.  Or you could have a super spreader at one event.  Temperature checks are (as far as I've read) pretty useless for identifying who might be spreading this invisible virus.  Now I'm not a gambler but it seems to me that the odds go up when you get a group of people who don't care about the virus in any setting - because that increases the potential that they are carriers.  And if you have a group of likeminded people then you might have more than one carrier, which increases the chances of them spreading it to any one individual. 

Edited by Jean in Newcastle
clarity
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Just now, EmseB said:

But if people are swimming and such, I feel like most of your sinuses and mucous membranes would be washed with chlorinated water at some point, even just incidentally. This makes me just want to know more:

"Hutchinson did not say how many people attended the party or subsequently tested positive for the COVID-19 virus."

I don’t know more details but I know Arkansas, pretty sure the governor included, has been very anti-shutdown so I doubt he would exaggerate or over dramatize it.

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15 minutes ago, TCB said:

I don’t know more details but I know Arkansas, pretty sure the governor included, has been very anti-shutdown so I doubt he would exaggerate or over dramatize it.

I didn't mean I thought it was over dramatized...I really want to know more. Basically, I want to figure out pool risks and outdoor risks because I want to let my kids play with the neighbors outside.

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40 minutes ago, square_25 said:

One of the problems is that MOST things will be OK. It's not that widespread yet, and it seems to spread largely by superspreader events. So people will probably become emboldened by nothing going wrong. And that could backfire. 

This is what I keep thinking.  With this more and more seeming to be driven so much by superspreader events, I keep worrying people could be lulled into a sense of 'see, it's fine'.  Until suddenly, it very much is not.

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7 hours ago, Bootsie said:

This is a quandary.  What does "safe" mean?  I don't think it will ever mean 0% chance that they get this, or any other, coronavirus, or influenza, or measles, or are in a car accident, or participate in an activity in which they fall and break their hip.  How do we even begin to define safe.  And who decides this?  Are the seniors part of that discussion?  

Of course the seniors are part of the discussion. In my mom’s case, she could even leave and move somewhere else. While it wouldn’t be easy, no one is forcing her to stay in an aging in place complex. Just today she asked and was told she could have a friend come pick her up and take her to lunch at her home. But they still don’t want guests coming to her apartment.

And they’ve always been allowed to walk outside. They are just asked to keep their distance unless it is a spouse. They can also gather outside with masks and social distancing.

Edited by Frances
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