Our shelter in place just got extended through May 30 and people are DONE

[TCB]

2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Well, at the moment, HCQ isn't showing great results in trials, and countries with high mask usage have FAR fewer deaths than we do. So I'm going to go with masks. 

But it's possible SOME treatment will work better than masks. I'd like that, because it's not like I like covering my face up :-P. 

I would love to see some good data on masks too. It makes sense intuitively to me that it protects others from the wearer but I would love to see cold, hard facts.

[Arcadia]

Off-topic:

Yeast packets are back in stock at Whole Foods. They have two types of hand sanitizer too, a small spray bottle and a bigger non-spray bottle.

[TCB]

2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think that one's a little hard to study like that, because it's a collective action issue. It's not like you can give some people masks and others no masks and see how each group does, because your mask protects other people more than you. There's no randomized controlled trial for this one. 

I think looking at how the Asian countries have done and the fact that in NY, healthcare workers had fewer antibodies than the entire population is enough for me. Plus it simply makes sense, given that most superspreader events have been due to aerosolized particles. 

I suppose we might wind up doing some natural experiments between the states, but even that's not going to be an RCT level of evidence. 

I wasn’t really thinking RCT. More maybe some study in a lab measuring virus particles going through them etc. under sneeze and cough conditions. I think there has been some of this but my impression of the whole thing has been more educated guesses than anything. I think maybe scientists think it’s obvious so not worth bothering - don’t know. My FB friends keep posting crackpot stuff saying masks are dangerous for the wearer. I’ve asked one or two why they think this but the studies they linked aren’t really saying that and I’ve sort of given up discussing now. If we get more spread in this area maybe they’ll be more open to discussion but I don’t hold out too much hope.

[TCB]

2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Off-topic:

Yeast packets are back in stock at Whole Foods. They have two types of hand sanitizer too, a small spray bottle and a bigger non-spray bottle.

Get it quick before the next onslaught lol!

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, TCB said:

Get it quick before the next onslaught lol!

I did buy the yeast since my first attempt at making my own sourdough starter fail. 
 

Didn’t buy the sanitizer. I am waiting for isopropyl alcohol to be back in stock.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52786242?__twitter_impression=true
 

40 people contracted coronavirus from a church service in Germany after lockdown restrictions eased.  They disinfected the church before the service and followed all social distancing guidelines.

cant remember if this was the thread where we talked about churches so apologies if it’s wrong.  Hard to keep track now of all the different conversations.

[EmseB]

27 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I would say that's an indication, yes :-/. And I'm sorry your neighbors are being so reckless. I assume no one has had the virus nearby? 

No, we've had a couple cases locally. My situation is complicated and super weird because I am on a military base. I can't know the number of cases in base due to DoD policy, but I do know there have been cases. They are folded into county numbers. Supposedly gatherings of 10 or more people are banned on base. Enforcement is minimal.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I agree. But honestly my personal opinion is that it is more than just asking people to look at the science for both of those. My personal opinion is that masks have been more politicized than HCQ, but I think that it seems to be true of both. 

You can’t see if someone is taking HCQ. And it isn’t being required to enter certain stores. Though I am a bit surprised if doctors are prescribing it outside of actual studies. Though I haven’t asked my doctor for it so maybe it’s easy to get and I just don’t know about it. (I will say though that from being on anti malaria meds in the past that the drug I took was extremely hard on my tummy. As in I often threw up after taking whatever it was. I don’t remember the name of the drug. ). 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Nor any unreasonable fear of being tortured forever, so there is that. I know not all Christians believe in Hell, but I find the idea profoundly immoral, no matter what the people there are supposed to have done.

Actually, you could be an atheist and still believe in some sort of afterlife. It's an odd position, to be sure, but atheism just means you don't believe in deities. You could believe in other supernatural entities or an afterlife and still honestly call yourself an atheist.

Huh weird that had never occurred to me

[Frances]

4 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Not doubting anyone. But that is not the general behavior is what I am saying. You are not going to hear the stories about people wearing masks, but anyone not wearing will get attention. But based on experience, even in a state where individual liberty matters people are being responsible and not reckless because of some political stand. They are being safe for their families. 

Here’s self reported polling info on mask wearing from MN. It shows a clear political divide with 92% of Democrats and only 53% of Republicans reporting mask wearing in the previous week. Women were also more likely to wear them than men.

https://www.startribune.com/political-divide-evident-even-in-wearing-masks-minnesota-poll-finds/570709122/
 

[vonfirmath]

9 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

I second this. I am in the land of the free too and what I am seeing is nothing irresponsible. Who are these people who are irresponsible ??? Everyone in my neighborhood is leaning towards paranoid sanitizing. We may die of bleach fumes than COVID 😂

I'm in TX too (austin area). I'm seeing a lot masked when I'm out -- but there are a LOT of places I'm not out at at all and I see the posts in our local community about refusing to go to any store that requires masking, etc. And the news stories about stores that opened even before "allowed" -- so I'm worried at how close it all seems to anarchy. I even had to convince my own mother to wear a mask when she did go out -- she's not really that concerned. Is staying inside/masking as much as she is to make me happy (I'm the one in our family the most concerned)  -- But even they have made changes (went to houston to get treatment for their dog with heartworms but didn't get out of the car in Houston except to hand dog off to vet and was circumspect about stopping otherwise. etc)

 

And my boss is starting to put some encouragement on me to come work in the office again. I was there Friday though and everyone at the meeting was masked (and we could hear each other just fine). And putting on masks when going to visit, though they kind of laughed the first time I went in with my homemade mask.  (They provided bandanas as the state required mask.)

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by vonfirmath

[J-rap]

12 hours ago, Frances said:

Here’s self reported polling info on mask wearing from MN. It shows a clear political divide with 92% of Democrats and only 53% of Republicans reporting mask wearing in the previous week. Women were also more likely to wear them than men.

https://www.startribune.com/political-divide-evident-even-in-wearing-masks-minnesota-poll-finds/570709122/
 

I believe it!   I do think the governor here is really working hard to unite the parties and make this more about Minnesotans.  Now that we're opening up slowly, I'd guess I see 75% of people with masks on (in the limited areas I'm in, that is!).  In Minneapolis, masks are now required in any indoor public place, or you're not allowed inside.  St. Paul hasn't yet made it a requirement, but a lot of stores there require it anyway.  (Those are our two biggest cities.)  Stores are working really hard to socially distance customers now are opening -- placing restrictions on number of people inside, stickers on the floor, etc.   Some stores don't allow children under 16.  Restaurants can only serve outdoors, and if they currently don't have that space, the cities are working with zoning laws to try and block off parts of parking lots and roads.  I haven't been seeing the party crowds that others talk about, but we'll see how this weekend plays out.  (Probably helps that it's raining!)   Our numbers are still rising and expect to double from I think last week to the end of July.

Edited May 24, 2020 by J-rap

[Bootsie]

10 hours ago, square_25 said:

 

I'm sure. That's why we should make sure it's safe for them to not be isolated. 

This is a quandary.  What does "safe" mean?  I don't think it will ever mean 0% chance that they get this, or any other, coronavirus, or influenza, or measles, or are in a car accident, or participate in an activity in which they fall and break their hip.  How do we even begin to define safe.  And who decides this?  Are the seniors part of that discussion?  

[Shoeless]

10 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

I second this. I am in the land of the free too and what I am seeing is nothing irresponsible. Who are these people who are irresponsible ??? Everyone in my neighborhood is leaning towards paranoid sanitizing. We may die of bleach fumes than COVID 😂

 

Y'all need to come to my little town in Texas. People here are no longer wearing masks.  No one is sanitizing anything anymore.  My store stopped handing out wipes at the door for carts. Half of the clerks aren't wearing masks.  The town is planning a 4th of July parade and fireworks show and "recommends" that people wear masks and socially distance, but will not be enforcing it.

If anyone questions why people aren't wearing masks, you get yelled at that if you are too scared, then maybe you should stay home, or better yet, get out of Texas. 

 

 

 

[MEmama]

10 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

It is absolutely above my pay grade or honestly my intelligence to figure an answer to this. But these cannot be reasons we can shut down entirely is what I will say. I keep hearing all sorts of things like Maine saying every teacher about 60 must retire ? I do not know what is truth, what is fantasy and what is politicized "truth". We truly live in the age of truthiness. 

Huh?

[Ausmumof3]

no social distancing here

disclaimer - I have no idea who the dude who tweeted this is

[Carrie12345]

15 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

How come there isn't more information available about the places coming close to ICU capacity?   Everybody seemed to know what was happening in NYC, but on here is the first time I've heard that other places may be in trouble.   

🤷‍♀️ 
Most recent stats are that my county has 2 open ICU beds, and 4 medical/surgical beds. We have 2 hospitals. To little ole me, that doesn’t sound like enough to be loosening restrictions like we are (and earlier than planned, to boot!)

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I did buy the yeast since my first attempt at making my own sourdough starter fail. 
 

Didn’t buy the sanitizer. I am waiting for isopropyl alcohol to be back in stock.

Aww. If you weren’t a billion miles away from me, I would drive you over some starter. 

That’s one good thing I have learned since COVID. - how to make all the things with starter only. I do still have some regular yeast but I have been challenging myself to totally not use it. 

[TCB]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

no social distancing here

disclaimer - I have no idea who the dude who tweeted this is

Don’t know who he is but this is almost certainly true - very close to me - many people completely unconcerned and very concerned that nothing should impose upon their liberty!

ETA Most of those people are probably from St Louis and Kansas City

Edited May 24, 2020 by TCB

[Condessa]

59 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Yes, seniors are part of this discussion.

I can’t say that I know exactly how to define safe, but having a very contagious and deadly for them virus spreading through the population is probably not it.

The seniors here are done.  They are sick of being isolated.  At a local senior facility, they staged a protest and walked out last week— hobbled out the doors together with their walkers and wheelchairs and sat out on the grass together in the sunshine.  They have not been allowed to leave the facility for outings or have family visits for months.  Now they’ve told the management that it is over—literally announced that they would rather die, and that if management didn’t end the facility lockdown now, they would all be pulling their contracts as a block and leaving.

[Wheres Toto]

10 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I'm a Democrat and a mask wearer.  I don't understand this at all.  The Republicans I know are very concerned about the economy, and the need to open up.  Surely cutting down on transmission is going to be key to reducing damage to the economy.

On the other side, I have Democratic friends who seem to want HCQ not to work, just because Trump likes it. I hope every solution we can find works.  It doesn't surprise me that HCQ isn't the single miracle drug, because my experience tells me to expect that in the end there will be lots of drugs needed and lots of subtle factors about which combination is right one for each person, and lots of side effects to balance.  It seems like HCQ fits well into that expectation.

That's probably the biggest thing about all this I don't understand.   IF you are in the "open up NOW" category, why wouldn't you be pushing masks?  That is the easiest way to control spread at this point.   I realize not everyone can wear masks, blah blah blah, but if those who can, do it could make a huge difference.

(I actually know the answer to my own confusion - people don't believe the virus is real, or going to affect them, or it's all a conspiracy, blah blah blah).

[DoraBora]

5 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

Y'all need to come to my little town in Texas. People here are no longer wearing masks.  No one is sanitizing anything anymore.  My store stopped handing out wipes at the door for carts. Half of the clerks aren't wearing masks.  The town is planning a 4th of July parade and fireworks show and "recommends" that people wear masks and socially distance, but will not be enforcing it.

If anyone questions why people aren't wearing masks, you get yelled at that if you are too scared, then maybe you should stay home, or better yet, get out of Texas. 

People in your town are yelling at you about wearing a mask?  Where do you live?  I'm a native Texan, and though every person in our state is imperfect, it's been my experience that we're a pretty friendly bunch.  That is very sad and I'm sorry you're experiencing such hostility!

You probably know this, but masks and distancing cannot legally be enforced by any city or county in Texas, per Gov. Abbott's order.  I think that's a good thing, though you probably disagree.  I wouldn't yell at you about our differences of opinion, nor would I suggest you leave.  🙂

[EmseB]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

no social distancing here

disclaimer - I have no idea who the dude who tweeted this is

You know, I have seen a lot of tweets like this in various forms (crowded parks, crosswalks with a lot of people, protest crowds, whatever) come across my feed in the last six weeks and the threads are filled with people saying that in two weeks hospitals are going to be full, these people will be sick, there will be a spike. And yet, I never see anyone come back around with the reporting that it there was a spike. I feel like in the sun and chlorine and in the open air, transmission would be very low.

[DoraBora]

4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

And why is that a good thing? 

Well, isn't the science still out on whether masks add any benefit to enhanced hygiene and distancing?  The masking message has been mixed from the beginning, and people living in places that aren't terribly hard-hit don't feel the same urgency to mask as those where you live. 

In Texas, as things stand now, there's no reason for county or city officials to have the power to lock everyone down or force them to mask. 

Me?  I think people should mask, just in case they help slow the spread.  I think we should keep our distance from those who don't live with us and that we should avoid crowds, but I don't agree that these things should be required under penalty of fines or jail time.  We've been open for a while and our cases are not out of control.

[DoraBora]

26 minutes ago, square_25 said:

And why is that a good thing? 

I take it you don't think wearing masks is a good idea (let me know if I'm wrong.) Why is that? 

Everyone in my family wears a mask in public, just in case it helps slow the spread.  I sure it hope it does, because I'm not looking forward to masking in August!

[DoraBora]

27 minutes ago, EmseB said:

You know, I have seen a lot of tweets like this in various forms (crowded parks, crosswalks with a lot of people, protest crowds, whatever) come across my feed in the last six weeks and the threads are filled with people saying that in two weeks hospitals are going to be full, these people will be sick, there will be a spike. And yet, I never see anyone come back around with the reporting that it there was a spike. I feel like in the sun and chlorine and in the open air, transmission would be very low.

I think there are people out there who are very afraid when they see scenes like this that there will be a spike in cases, and others out there who sort-of hope there will.  (See?  See what happens?)

I wouldn't have enjoyed being in that crowd pre-Covid.  

Edited May 24, 2020 by DoraBora

[TCB]

6 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

I think there are people out there who are very afraid when they see scenes like this that there will be a spike in cases, and others out there who sort-of hope there will.  (See?  See what happens?)

I wouldn't have enjoyed being in that crowd pre-Covid.  

Well this time I may be able to let you know what happens because this is my back yard. Great if the risk outside is low but they will also be crowded together inside. I’d love to think they’ve analyzed the risk and are only crowded together outside with lots of chlorine splashing around.

[DoraBora]

8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I don't think there's going to be very straightforward science about any of this, because how would you even study this in a controlled way? There's evidence, though. People are updating guidelines (too late, frankly) given the evidence. 

I think decreasing people's ability to implement public health measure will not increase local government ability. 

Current estimates are that there is a higher percentage of Texans currently infected than there are New Yorkers currently infected. People are wearing masks here not because it's currently worse here, but because they've gone through this already and it was traumatic. it would be much better if people wore masks before the trauma, not after. 

I'm glad you're wearing a mask! I hope it helps, too. Are others in your town doing so or no? 

Most people wear them in grocery stores in my little corner of the world, though a lot of the (young) employees pull them down below their noses.  (I get it.  They're hot.)   Most people seem to wear them in office buildings and banks.  At Home Depot yesterday, about two-thirds(?) of the customers were wearing them, and that was in the garden center, outdoors.

Some people don't, but I have yet to hear anyone yell at anyone about wearing a mask or not wearing one.

 

 

[DoraBora]

3 minutes ago, TCB said:

Well this time I may be able to let you know what happens because this is my back yard. Great if the risk outside is low but they will also be crowded together inside. I’d love to think they’ve analyzed the risk and are only crowded together outside with lots of chlorine splashing around.

Yeah, my next door neighbor works at a CVS pharmacy.  She was sent home a month or so ago because one of the employees had tested positive.  She hosted a party that weekend!  Argh!  People in and out of her house and in the backyard.  We were under county stay-at-home orders at the time, so she shouldn't have been having a party anyway.

It all seemed to be okay in the end, but she took quite a chance.

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Ooooooh, that makes me worried. I do not want there to be outdoor spread. It sounds we don't have details about how many people got infected? 

I wonder if a pool party is slightly higher risk than other outdoor events because there tends to be a bit more yelling and spitting out water etc.  also we don’t know for sure what was involved may have been some indoor time as well.

[Ausmumof3]

45 minutes ago, EmseB said:

You know, I have seen a lot of tweets like this in various forms (crowded parks, crosswalks with a lot of people, protest crowds, whatever) come across my feed in the last six weeks and the threads are filled with people saying that in two weeks hospitals are going to be full, these people will be sick, there will be a spike. And yet, I never see anyone come back around with the reporting that it there was a spike. I feel like in the sun and chlorine and in the open air, transmission would be very low.

Yes.  We had the couple here that went to the real estate auction and i thought cases would definitely take off but there was nothing.  
 

I read and I think shared an interesting thing yesterday.  Apparently as well as RO there is another number they look at.  So for an r0 of 2 we assume everyone infects two people but in fact with some viruses it’s more like 9 people infect no one and the last infects 20.  They think covid may be more like that.

[EmseB]

21 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

I think there are people out there who are very afraid when they see scenes like this that there will be a spike in cases, and others out there who sort-of hope there will.  (See?  See what happens?)

I wouldn't have enjoyed being in that crowd pre-Covid.  

Same here.

The most disturbing replies are from people who say that they deserve what's coming to them.

I mean, in my mind,, the best outcome would be that people would be able to do stuff like this (as much as it's not my cup of tea) and we would see no one getting sick from it. Because if that's the case, I will feel better about kids in the neighborhood playing together, etc.

[TCB]

1 minute ago, EmseB said:

Same here.

The most disturbing replies are from people who say that they deserve what's coming to them.

I mean, in my mind,, the best outcome would be that people would be able to do stuff like this (as much as it's not my cup of tea) and we would see no one getting sick from it. Because if that's the case, I will feel better about kids in the neighborhood playing together, etc.

Where is it that people are saying they deserve what’s coming to them. I’ve seen several people saying that but don’t know where they are seeing it.

Just read that a place local to us usually sees 400-500 visitors on Memorial Weekend and so far they’ve had over 900.

 

[EmseB]

4 minutes ago, kand said:

I’ve read that the virus is very unstable around pool water and easily killed. That seems good for things like outdoor lap swimming. A pool party suggests close proximity and interaction though. And no masks, clearly.  I definitely can see The respiratory droplets flying in that situation. 

But if people are swimming and such, I feel like most of your sinuses and mucous membranes would be washed with chlorinated water at some point, even just incidentally. This makes me just want to know more:

"Hutchinson did not say how many people attended the party or subsequently tested positive for the COVID-19 virus."

[Jean in Newcastle]

Because the US hasn't done consistent contact tracing, we don't have firm numbers on spikes from certain events.  I have seen though people do their own reports of having gotten sick at various parties.  If they hadn't done that (usually because it has changed their mind on the virus and now they are warning people of the dangers) we wouldn't really know. 

Also - it is a huge crap shoot.  You could have a party with a bunch of people with no COVID to spread.  So no matter how many droplets are in the air, they won't be COVID droplets.  You could have another event with a number of COVID spreaders.  Or you could have a super spreader at one event.  Temperature checks are (as far as I've read) pretty useless for identifying who might be spreading this invisible virus.  Now I'm not a gambler but it seems to me that the odds go up when you get a group of people who don't care about the virus in any setting - because that increases the potential that they are carriers.  And if you have a group of likeminded people then you might have more than one carrier, which increases the chances of them spreading it to any one individual. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Jean in Newcastle
clarity

[TCB]

Just now, EmseB said:

But if people are swimming and such, I feel like most of your sinuses and mucous membranes would be washed with chlorinated water at some point, even just incidentally. This makes me just want to know more:

"Hutchinson did not say how many people attended the party or subsequently tested positive for the COVID-19 virus."

I don’t know more details but I know Arkansas, pretty sure the governor included, has been very anti-shutdown so I doubt he would exaggerate or over dramatize it.

[sassenach]

@square_25 can you link me to your calculations where you landed on 10%? I‘M having a hard time finding the post. Thanks!

[EmseB]

15 minutes ago, TCB said:

I don’t know more details but I know Arkansas, pretty sure the governor included, has been very anti-shutdown so I doubt he would exaggerate or over dramatize it.

I didn't mean I thought it was over dramatized...I really want to know more. Basically, I want to figure out pool risks and outdoor risks because I want to let my kids play with the neighbors outside.

[Matryoshka]

40 minutes ago, square_25 said:

One of the problems is that MOST things will be OK. It's not that widespread yet, and it seems to spread largely by superspreader events. So people will probably become emboldened by nothing going wrong. And that could backfire. 

This is what I keep thinking.  With this more and more seeming to be driven so much by superspreader events, I keep worrying people could be lulled into a sense of 'see, it's fine'.  Until suddenly, it very much is not.

[Frances]

7 hours ago, Bootsie said:

This is a quandary.  What does "safe" mean?  I don't think it will ever mean 0% chance that they get this, or any other, coronavirus, or influenza, or measles, or are in a car accident, or participate in an activity in which they fall and break their hip.  How do we even begin to define safe.  And who decides this?  Are the seniors part of that discussion?  

Of course the seniors are part of the discussion. In my mom’s case, she could even leave and move somewhere else. While it wouldn’t be easy, no one is forcing her to stay in an aging in place complex. Just today she asked and was told she could have a friend come pick her up and take her to lunch at her home. But they still don’t want guests coming to her apartment.

And they’ve always been allowed to walk outside. They are just asked to keep their distance unless it is a spouse. They can also gather outside with masks and social distancing.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Frances

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

That's probably the biggest thing about all this I don't understand.   IF you are in the "open up NOW" category, why wouldn't you be pushing masks?  That is the easiest way to control spread at this point.   I realize not everyone can wear masks, blah blah blah, but if those who can, do it could make a huge difference.

(I actually know the answer to my own confusion - people don't believe the virus is real, or going to affect them, or it's all a conspiracy, blah blah blah).

And don’t forget following their fearless leader’s excellent words and example and making a political statement.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Frances

[Arcadia]

38 minutes ago, TCB said:

Where is it that people are saying they deserve what’s coming to them. I’ve seen several people saying that but don’t know where they are seeing it.

On Facebook, commenters on the news have said things like “Good they can die”, “Darwin” and posting the fake certificate about declining treatment if admitted to hospital since they brought it on themselves, they should not get any medical treatment. 

[Tanaqui]

2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

On Facebook, commenters on the news have said things like “Good they can die”, “Darwin” and posting the fake certificate about declining treatment if admitted to hospital since they brought it on themselves, they should not get any medical treatment. 

 

Are these people known to you, or are they strangers to you?

I don't want to say that every trollish comment on the internet is left by a paid troll or a bot, because that's simply not true and I'm certain that real people do really hold those awful opinions (or at least say those awful things for their own awful reasons)... but when particularly awful things are being said by people I don't know at all, especially if those people come from some clearly identifiable group that people might want to either cast in a bad light or pull in a bad direction, I take it with a grain of salt. I'm not sure doubting everything is the best way to stay sane, but believing everything wasn't helping.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, DoraBora said:

I think there are people out there who are very afraid when they see scenes like this that there will be a spike in cases, and others out there who sort-of hope there will.  (See?  See what happens?)

I wouldn't have enjoyed being in that crowd pre-Covid.  

I think those that are hoping for a spike in cases are being very illogical. Because were it to happen, it would very likely affect more than those who were in the crowd. 

[Arcadia]

50 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I read and I think shared an interesting thing yesterday.  Apparently as well as RO there is another number they look at.  So for an r0 of 2 we assume everyone infects two people but in fact with some viruses it’s more like 9 people infect no one and the last infects 20.  They think covid may be more like that.

COVID19 is SARS2 and I think it has similarities in spreading patterns. It’s the super spreaders that are worrisome especially since no one knows if they themselves are in that category. A frontline staff who is a super spreader would be a double whammy. 

The guy infected in Singapore and then infected people in Europe is considered a super spreader. The Korean lady who went to multiple church services is another one. If both aren’t super spreaders the community spread would be much less. 

The couple “quarantined” on the cruise ship, the husband was infected but not the wife. So somehow the wife didn’t get infected. Doctors were trying to figure out why the wife didn’t get infected, any antibodies she might have that helps.

[wathe]

I had a thought about pools.  Are there lifeguards?  And are the lifeguards still mandated to do rescues?  CPR?  Rescue breathing?  In-water spinal precautions? (spinal rolls are really hands-on).  Do they wear PPE?  One can't fish an unconscious person out of a pool while wearing a mask and face shield, I shouldn't think.  It would seem to me that usual lifeguarding practice presents unacceptable occupational risk during COVID.  Does anyone here lifeguard or have a kid who lifeguards who knows?

Edited May 24, 2020 by wathe

[wathe]

Extrapolating:  Bystander CPR may become no longer a thing.  First aid courses are going to have to change their content - full PPE in the AED cabinet? And training time on how to use it.

Edited May 24, 2020 by wathe

[Arcadia]

3 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Are these people known to you, or are they strangers to you?

I don't want to say that every trollish comment on the internet is left by a paid troll or a bot, because that's simply not true and I'm certain that real people do really hold those awful opinions (or at least say those awful things for their own awful reasons)... but when particularly awful things are being said by people I don't know at all, especially if those people come from some clearly identifiable group that people might want to either cast in a bad light or pull in a bad direction, I take it with a grain of salt. 

I do know some of them IRL. I have very vocal neighbors. Some are just anti-republicans and/or some are just fearful. Some are just taking it as a chance to scold people. They are stuck at home and bored. When people are stuck with social media because they aren’t able to work and their young kids are home or their kids are adults, you get people being really abusive on internet. They were abusive during the previous presidential elections too. 

I know someone well who is normally okay but whenever an epidemic is around, her anxiety is enough to make her say things like “I want my family safe and I don’t care about any suffering others have to go through.” There are lots more selfish stuff she said in person. Her husband works from home (FAANG, tech) so she doesn’t need to worry about unemployment.  

Edited May 24, 2020 by Arcadia
Typo

[Arcadia]

22 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

Oh, social media. Spaces without social norms or moderation are such a cesspool :-/. 

Like I answered Tanaqui，those I know in real life have husbands earning $170k and up for FAANG and sound like Marie Antoinette when they speak about sheltering in place at home and having everything delivered to their doors. They “speak” on social media the same way they speak in real life. While not being politically correct, at least they aren’t hypocrites. 

[Selkie]

36 minutes ago, wathe said:

I had a thought about pools.  Are there lifeguards?  And are the lifeguards still mandated to do rescues?  CPR?  Rescue breathing?  In-water spinal precautions? (spinal rolls are really hands-on).  Do they wear PPE?  One can't fish an unconscious person out of a pool while wearing a mask and face shield, I shouldn't think.  It would seem to me that usual lifeguarding practice presents unacceptable occupational risk during COVID.  Does anyone here lifeguard or have a kid who lifeguards who knows?

This was brought up as one of the reasons that our community pool will be closed all summer, as well as that lifeguards are regularly exposed to vomit and feces in the pool (gag).