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Our shelter in place just got extended through May 30 and people are DONE


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This is going to be a little Bay area centric.

My county has been fairly good about SIP. We were in that group of counties that was first in the country to lock things down. At first it was very rah-rah, we're the smartest, we're the best. But...

A couple of weeks ago, we started seeing neighbors having friends over, but spaced out in their yards. That's fine with me. We're doing the same. We've had friends come sit on the other side of our fire pit in the back yard. They don't go in our house, they bring their own drinks and take their own trash. AFAIC, that's all within the spirit of the order though I know it's not the letter. 

This week, I passed by a full on block party. Thirty people in a front yard, no masks, spaced more like 3 ft apart, kids all on top of each other. They tried to open the beaches and it was completely packed. You can just feel it, people are done.

Then today they extended the order and the overwhelming reaction was NOPE. People are starting to make their own rules. Dh and I were talking about how we think the government will react. Double down on enforcement? Acquiesce? Dh predicts that they're going to ignore it. Pretend like everyone is following the orders when we all know that they're not.

Not sure where I'm going with this. Just wondering if you all are seeing the same thing.

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I understand getting tired of staying home, but I don’t get being SOOO tired that it’s worth the risk not to. What I’m trying to avoid by staying home is checking a loved one into a hospital to die al

Our order was recently extended to May 16th (at the earliest), but the pattern has been to add time in two week increments, so I predict it will soon be extended to May 30th (or at least through Memor

re how closely the virus has come to the house I expect that does make all the difference.  I'm in a hot spot. I'd have more than $1000 myself, and I know several people for whom that number wo

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I can tell people around here are getting tired as well, but I don’t know if behaviors are changing because I’m in my house 😉. I did notice that while all staff at Trader Joe’s had masks on two weeks ago, this time only half did. That was disappointing. Most shoppers wore them, though.

I totally understand and commiserate with everyone wanting to be done with this, but I’m also frustrated about people acting like that’s a decision under their control. This isn’t something we can just decide to be done with when we don’t want to fight it any more. It’s not just going to back off because we’re all tired of this. 

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I did the same with three friends last night, we have been fully locked down except for groceries but they couldn’t take it anymore and called a meeting in a yard with the fire pit and wine.  It was fantastic.  But yeah, these are other special needs moms and I was by far the most cautious among us.  Everyone is completely fed up now.

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I'm not sure my area was ever completely compliant, but my neighbors lately have stepped it up in having people over & not bothering about spacing.

If the weather improves, it will only get worse here, I bet. But, our area is loosening some restrictions next week, so I anticipate seeing more people out visiting than even now.

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I know people are weary of it here, but I think most people are still trying to do it right.  That's what I see, anyway.   On the other hand, we live in a northern climate with long dark winters and people are used to isolating during that time.  Now that the weather is finally starting to warm (we had our first 70 degree day yesterday!), it's going to be harder.

What I DO see is that people at first were being hyper-vigilant, and now have relaxed just a tiny bit on a few things.  For example, my sister told me the other day that she hugged my dad for the first time since this all began.  (He's 92 with congestive heart failure.)  We've all been really, really careful around him ~ only my sister and I visit him (on opposite days), and even then, we stay practically a room apart.  But she just felt that he really needed her hug and she did it.  Now she says she is going to hug him every time she sees him.  So, I guess those are the types of little changes I'm seeing.

(I still don't feel I can hug him, unfortunately, because I'm trying to keep my dh safe too.)

HOWEVER, my family (sister and brother and spouses, plus my dad) is thinking of planning a trip to a country lodge at the end of the summer, so....

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So far, I haven't seen anything like that.  The data show that people are driving a bit more than before.  The UK lockdown is due to be reviewed on May 7, but will not be lifted until the following criteria have been met:

  • Protect the NHS's ability to cope and be confident that the NHS is able to provide sufficient critical care across the UK.
  • See a sustained and consistent fall in daily death rates to be confident the UK is beyond the peak.
  • Reliable data from Sage (government scientific committee) showing rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels across the board.
  • Confident that testing capacity and PPE are in hand with supply able to meet future demand.
  • Confident that any adjustments to the current measures would not risk a second peak in infections which would overwhelm the NHS.
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I think it's a tightrope that's being walked by all parties. The government doesn't want to be seen as over bearing, and people who have been doing the orders there longest are over it. When people kept saying that it doesn't matter if people want to keep doing it because they'll have to, they must have been envisioning everyone getting those $1,000 fines or something.

Honestly, if there submissiveness gets too bad, I think Newsom will decide not to ease anything and instruct local law enforcement to start enforcing. 

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I haven’t been out to see but on social media is see just as many people asking for more restrictions rather than less especially around schools opening up.  We have had less severe restrictions than elsewhere.  It is enforceable by a fine.  A bunch of lads in a burnout group all managed to get themselves a $1600 fine for not social distancing.  I reckon the police probably felt quite happy about that because it’s a trouble spot and they don’t really have much power to deal with the bad driving behaviour.  However other than a couple of cases where they may have been heavy handed they are mostly just issuing cautions.  I think there’s a lot less apartment living etc here and most people have yards or parks they can access.  And because the cases are low it feels like there’s an end in sight.

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My county has just started to get bad within the last week, but we are on our 7th week of being home, not under official SIP orders, just home. People are going to be tired of it long before it is done here.

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Most people here are going about their business, just using the takeout/curb delivery options and the distancing if they are essential workers going to work.  We shut school down March 11th and then followed Gov Cuomo's Pause instructions.

Work-at-home seem to be shopping every two weeks....and socialize before shopping. So, you've had 2 weeks isolation, then you meet up one evening with a few friends/relatives keeping six feet, and then you go shopping the next day.  Repeat.  

I don't know about y'all, but I"m encountering people at the store who ignore everything...the directional arrows, the don't touch what you aren't buying, only one person per fam in the store, etc.  And still there is always a senior citizen coughing...yes, I know Meals on Wheels and county food delivery doesn't bring the favorites, but persons who are coughing should not be in the store especially a store that delivers for free. We are in a hot spot.  We will not be in the counties lifting restrictions mid May. ...the state antibody testing done at the shopping centers last week showed many vulnerable senior citizens out and about rather than staying safe....10% of samples were seniors.  The idea that all persons can understand  and will care about not infecting others just isn't valid. 

The grocery store is three times as crowded as it was before shutdown. I guess that's expected since so many people bugged out of the city to stay at their country home or with friends.

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40 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Then today they extended the order and the overwhelming reaction was NOPE. People are starting to make their own rules. Dh and I were talking about how we think the government will react. Double down on enforcement? Acquiesce? Dh predicts that they're going to ignore it. Pretend like everyone is following the orders when we all know that they're not.

Yesterday the news was out and people’s reaction was more of “I told you so”. People were expecting multiple extensions a week or two ago so they are already fed up. Schools are closed for the year so people are guessing that they would be working from home or unemployed until at least public schools reopen. 

What I understand is that the governor said counties cannot be less strict than the state so basically we are in SIP until California stop being in Stay At Home. 

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Everyone I know personally it taking the rules seriously.  We are in a hard hit state.  But there has been a blatant disregard for the rules by most of my local population from the start.  We are a very conservative area and many people simply dismiss anything our democrat governor says.  Kids are playing freely in the streets, most people have ignored the mask rules (including grocery store employees and shoppers), and some non-essential business stayed open with no consequences.  Our next door neighbors have had several large parties and some churches have continued services as usual the entire time.  The sheriff from a neighboring county stated on record to media that he would not enforce any of the governor's rules.  We still have almost no testing available so there is no telling what our numbers are.  We are in an area that is a complete afterthought in our state and I doubt there has been or will be any focus on tracking what is happening here until we hit crisis level.

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Washington state is set to expire on May 4. I assume it will get extended. We were one of the first to go on lock down, so it has been well over a month here.

I am home with dd13 because she has been out of school for 2 months. She is special needs, so I can't just have someone else watch her. The past few weeks have been really, really hard on her. She has a stomach issue that results in a lot of pain, so she has been crying and moaning a lot. Combining that and shelter in place, and I just had to leave the house yesterday. I drove off in my car and went to the lake. I am not sure if the park was open or not (no signs) but I walked and then sat and talked to dd21 on the phone for a couple of hours. Then drove home a very long way LOL (15 min drive took about an hour). DD21 and I kept talking until  her husband got home close to midnight. When I checked my phone, we talked for over 5 hours. lol.  I feel much better today. 🙂 I really needed to get out of the house and disconnect from dd13 for a while. I think I am going to have to start leaving more without her and just go wander. I need a break from the house, but as sad as is sounds, I need a break from her more. 

ETA: Dh had got home from work, and ds was home to help as well, so I  was able to leave.

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We've had a couple local protests here in San Diego, which were basically thinly-veiled Trump rallies. People are weary, and there are some outspoken whiners, but most people are trucking along. They just recently partially reopened our parks and beaches/bays, so that will placate people for a bit.

Newsom said yesterday that they were going to have to start cracking down on enforcement after OC had 40k people at Newport Beach on Saturday. He's been pretty clear in his daily briefings about the standards that need to be met before the state can be reopened. Did people in the Bay area honestly think that things were reopening soon? That seems pretty unrealistic given what he's been saying all along about the metrics that need to be met. We are pretty far from hitting those targets.

Like most things in the US, I see this breaking down along party lines, though I have no clue why this has turned political. My more conservative friends/family are taking more risks and are complaining more; my more liberal friends, less so. Our behavior as a country seems particularly irrational to me.

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1 hour ago, sassenach said:

This is going to be a little Bay area centric.

My county has been fairly good about SIP. We were in that group of counties that was first in the country to lock things down. At first it was very rah-rah, we're the smartest, we're the best. But...

A couple of weeks ago, we started seeing neighbors having friends over, but spaced out in their yards. That's fine with me. We're doing the same. We've had friends come sit on the other side of our fire pit in the back yard. They don't go in our house, they bring their own drinks and take their own trash. AFAIC, that's all within the spirit of the order though I know it's not the letter. 

This week, I passed by a full on block party. Thirty people in a front yard, no masks, spaced more like 3 ft apart, kids all on top of each other. They tried to open the beaches and it was completely packed. You can just feel it, people are done.

Then today they extended the order and the overwhelming reaction was NOPE. People are starting to make their own rules. Dh and I were talking about how we think the government will react. Double down on enforcement? Acquiesce? Dh predicts that they're going to ignore it. Pretend like everyone is following the orders when we all know that they're not.

Not sure where I'm going with this. Just wondering if you all are seeing the same thing.

 

Yes I honestly think its part of the calculation in opening up -- the people are going to do it with or without the government's permission.

 

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3 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

. Did people in the Bay area honestly think that things were reopening soon?

They don’t which is why people are discontent. They know shelter in place is not going to be lifted anytime soon so they gave up. It’s harder to stay chirpy when there is no end in sight or you (general) think that the end of shelter in place would be next year.

My area is mainly Democrats or non-voters so it’s not so much political as people having cabin fever and giving up. 

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4 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

We've had a couple local protests here in San Diego, which were basically thinly-veiled Trump rallies. People are weary, and there are some outspoken whiners, but most people are trucking along. They just recently partially reopened our parks and beaches/bays, so that will placate people for a bit.

Newsom said yesterday that they were going to have to start cracking down on enforcement after OC had 40k people at Newport Beach on Saturday. He's been pretty clear in his daily briefings about the standards that need to be meet before the state can be reopened. Did people in the Bay area honestly think that things were reopening soon? That seems pretty unrealistic given what he's been saying all along about the metrics that need to be met. We are pretty far from hitting those targets.

Like most things in the US, I see this breaking down along party lines, though I have no clue why this has turned political. My more conservative friends/family are taking more risks and are complaining more; my more liberal friends, less so. Our behavior as a country seems particularly irrational to me.

My county is like 85% Dems, so I don’t think this is a party line issue at all. For us specifically, our numbers are pretty great so people are pissed that we are following harder hit counties like Santa Clara rather than following Napa, Sonoma, and Contra Costa, which are closer to us and more similar in numbers. 

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@mathnerd expected, saw the reduction in force last week  😞

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/28/stanford-health-care-workers-furloughs-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/

“STANFORD (CBS SF) – Stanford Health Care workers are being forced to take mandatory furloughs during the coronavirus outbreak, which is basically asking frontline healthcare workers to take pay cuts during a crisis, according to the workers’ union.

In a news release Monday, Service Employees International Union United Healthcare Workers West said Stanford Health Care is requiring its employees to take 12 furlough days over a 10-week period. The workers were reportedly notified of the upcoming furloughs via email.

“We have been putting our lives on the line treating COVID-19 patients and Stanford Health is thanking us by cutting our pay and harming our families,” Chuck Fonseca, a nursing assistant with SEIU UHW said in a statement. “We had no warning that this was coming and there was no discussion. They just sent us an email out of the blue – and most of us are in shock that they would treat us this way.””

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1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

They don’t which is why people are discontent. They know shelter in place is not going to be lifted anytime soon so they gave up. It’s harder to stay chirpy when there is no end in sight or you (general) think that the end of shelter in place would be next year.

My area is mainly Democrats or non-voters so it’s not so much political as people having cabin fever and giving up. 

 

I think, in SD, people were mainly pissed that we are paying all this money and we couldn't even go in the water or enjoy our beautiful parks. The surfers were about to mutiny. As long as people can enjoy the outdoors, that is a major pressure release valve for us. We still can't sit on the beach, go recreational boating, or congregate in the parks (that is phase II), but people are at least allowed to kayak, surf, swim, hike, and enjoy sunset walks along the water, so that goes a long way for our mental health here.

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I think a lot of people are going to be really annoyed because, even when things aren’t called “SIP” or “Stay at Home”, the idea is still going to be that people should be staying home and limiting contact as much as possible. And there will continue to be people who do and people who don’t, but maybe tipping in the other direction.

 

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I am in a little Washington town about 60 miles from Seattle. The first week the schools were closed and the next week when SIP orders were given was pretty quiet. After that, though, people have been out and about. Any store that has been deemed "necessary" by the governor and is open has a good number of people in it, especially older people. The past two weeks or so the total number has been increasing.  Even though fishing has been outlawed, I'm sure some are still doing it to feed their families.  People are walking and biking and kids are out playing with friends.

I was talking with a hair stylist yesterday. It took her a while to get unemployment (over a month) because of red tape, and she's not able to get any help for her business. If she can't pay for her chair, she loses it. I asked her if she is ready to start working again.  She said most definitely, but she is afraid the governor is going to extend the shutdown past May 4. I was talking to another business owner who has had a 50% drop in income. She can't pay her rent and the building owner isn't being very flexible. Kicking a renter out of a business space is easier for the owner than kicking a renter out of a residence is for a homeowner. 
 

People here are ready to get back to work.  We have more data now than we did 6 weeks ago and the numbers are not nearly as bad as originally predicted, especially in areas with high testing of anyone/antibody testing.  

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42 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Yesterday the news was out and people’s reaction was more of “I told you so”. People were expecting multiple extensions a week or two ago so they are already fed up. Schools are closed for the year so people are guessing that they would be working from home or unemployed until at least public schools reopen. 

What I understand is that the governor said counties cannot be less strict than the state so basically we are in SIP until California stop being in Stay At Home. 

I think opening up has more to do with the Western States Pact. They will all be opening together or it won't work. I'm not sure they'll be able to get AZ on board. It just doesn't make sense to open CA while all of the states around it are still closed. People will travel and circulate it all over again. 

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4 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd expected, saw the reduction in force last week  😞

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/28/stanford-health-care-workers-furloughs-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/

“STANFORD (CBS SF) – Stanford Health Care workers are being forced to take mandatory furloughs during the coronavirus outbreak, which is basically asking frontline healthcare workers to take pay cuts during a crisis, according to the workers’ union.

In a news release Monday, Service Employees International Union United Healthcare Workers West said Stanford Health Care is requiring its employees to take 12 furlough days over a 10-week period. The workers were reportedly notified of the upcoming furloughs via email.

“We have been putting our lives on the line treating COVID-19 patients and Stanford Health is thanking us by cutting our pay and harming our families,” Chuck Fonseca, a nursing assistant with SEIU UHW said in a statement. “We had no warning that this was coming and there was no discussion. They just sent us an email out of the blue – and most of us are in shock that they would treat us this way.””

 

My cohort in nursing school is still not being allowed back into the hospitals (liability issues), and we are being told by our nursing director that, unless we get our clinical hours completed by the end of our term, we will likely not graduate on time. Unlike most other states, the CA board of registered nursing is also not approving us to do simulations on mannequins because purportedly we have not been displaced. They are saying there is health corps, even though health corps hasn't taken a single student. My school has been forced to call over a hundred hospitals to prove displacement and file an appeal with the BRN. We still haven't heard the outcome.

Most of my friends that work in healthcare in CA have had their hours massively cut because, unless you work in a unit taking Covid patients, people have been too scared to seek care and/or their clinics/units were closed/repurposed. So, yeah, it is feast or famine out there. 

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59 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

I think it's a tightrope that's being walked by all parties. The government doesn't want to be seen as over bearing, and people who have been doing the orders there longest are over it. When people kept saying that it doesn't matter if people want to keep doing it because they'll have to, they must have been envisioning everyone getting those $1,000 fines or something.

Honestly, if there submissiveness gets too bad, I think Newsom will decide not to ease anything and instruct local law enforcement to start enforcing. 

When I say that it doesn’t matter if people want to be done, I’m not referring to fines or enforcement of rules, I’m referring to the virus itself. We can’t just decide to be done with this pandemic because it’s hard and harming us and our economy.  If people decide they’re done and start ignoring the rules en masse, it’s going to get much worse than it has been. 

15 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Like most things in the US, I see this breaking down along party lines, though I have no clue why this has turned political.

It’s crazy. I think at this point we could have an astroid headed for our planet aimed to hit somewhere in the US, and people would split along political lines in their response to it. As you say, it’s totally irrational.

7 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

They don’t which is why people are discontent. They know shelter in place is not going to be lifted anytime soon so they gave up. It’s harder to stay chirpy when there is no end in sight or you (general) think that the end of shelter in place would be next year.

But the governor has said that California is looking at weeks left of shelter in place, not months, so I don’t know why there are so many people continuing this narrative that it’s going to be until next year.

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Just now, SeaConquest said:

 

My cohort in nursing school is still not being allowed back into the hospitals (liability issues), and we are being told by our nursing director that, unless we get our clinical hours completed by the end of our term, we will likely not graduate on time. Unlike most other states, the CA board of registered nursing is also not approving us to do simulations on mannequins because purportedly we have not been displaced. They are saying there is health corps, even though health corps hasn't taken a single student. My school has been forced to call over a hundred hospitals to prove displacement and file an appeal with the BRN. We still haven't heard the outcome.

Most of my friends that work in healthcare in CA have had their hours massively cut because, unless you work in a unit taking Covid patients, people have been too scared to seek care and/or their clinics/units were closed/repurposed. So, yeah, it is feast or famine out there. 

I was wondering how things were going for you. We have a few schools that have been let back into clinicals but the president of our school won't let us. The Health Corps thing is BS. There's a FB group for Ca Students and it looks like there's a lawsuit starting to organize. https://www.facebook.com/groups/216961703013146/ Our SON director still thinks we're going to get concurrency waivers but I'm not so sure. They're talking about giving us incompletes on theory so we can complete them together with clinical. 

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why concurrency is the hill that they're choosing to die on.

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5 minutes ago, kand said:

 

When I say that it doesn’t matter if people want to be done, I’m not referring to fines or enforcement of rules, I’m referring to the virus itself. We can’t just decide to be done with this pandemic because it’s hard and harming us and our economy.  If people decide they’re done and start ignoring the rules en masse, it’s going to get much worse than it has been. 

It’s crazy. I think at this point we could have an astroid headed for our planet aimed to hit somewhere in the US, and people would split along political lines in their response to it. As you say, it’s totally irrational.

But the governor has said that California is looking at weeks left of shelter in place, not months, so I don’t know why there are so many people continuing this narrative that it’s going to be until next year.

No one believes him. I think that's obvious.

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I understand getting tired of staying home, but I don’t get being SOOO tired that it’s worth the risk not to. What I’m trying to avoid by staying home is checking a loved one into a hospital to die alone. I can’t imagine getting so restless in the span of a few months that I’d want to roll the dice on that. I’m a raging extrovert and I’ve never been home this long AND I miss my daughter. Still, I’m not close to feeling like recreational socialization is worth my son or mother or neighbor or even a stranger dying in a hospital room without any family at their bedsides. 

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Just now, sassenach said:

No one believes him. I think that's obvious.

See, exactly.

I think it's good that the SIP is extended in that it helps people justify getting unemployment benefits or working from home.  Without that order it's considered your choice, and so the order provides cover.

I don't see a good path to reopening though, and that is what has me a bit restless.  Still complying though.

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1 minute ago, KungFuPanda said:

I understand getting tired of staying home, but I don’t get being SOOO tired that it’s worth the risk not to. What I’m trying to avoid by staying home is checking a loved one into a hospital to die alone. I can’t imagine getting so restless in the span of a few months that I’d want to roll the dice on that. I’m a raging extrovert and I’ve never been home this long AND I miss my daughter. Still, I’m not close to feeling like recreational socialization is worth my son or mother or neighbor or even a stranger dying in a hospital room without any family at their bedsides. 

Before this becomes another debate about how we personally feel about obeying or not obeying orders and the depravity of anyone who disagrees with us, is it ok if we keep this about observations about the culture around us? 

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16 minutes ago, Plum said:

I think opening up has more to do with the Western States Pact. They will all be opening together or it won't work. I'm not sure they'll be able to get AZ on board. It just doesn't make sense to open CA while all of the states around it are still closed. People will travel and circulate it all over again. 

People aren’t thinking so much about the opening up part, as in traveling. People are tired of the shelter in place/stay at home part. I know people who are tired of their college kids being home and these people love their kids, just would rather colleges are reopened. Their college kids have their classes online so it’s not like they could go and work at Target and elsewhere (ETA: like during summer).

 

13 minutes ago, kand said:

But the governor has said that California is looking at weeks left of shelter in place, not months, so I don’t know why there are so many people continuing this narrative that it’s going to be until next year.

The governor did not say weeks left. He said he would reopen based on his six factor plan (https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/California-Roadmap-to-Modify-the-Stay-at-Home-Order.pdf). He said that it could have been weeks left in a scolding tone. Despite being a democrat majority neighborhood, people generally don’t believe politicians of either party (including independents). 

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2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I was wondering how things were going for you. We have a few schools that have been let back into clinicals but the president of our school won't let us. The Health Corps thing is BS. There's a FB group for Ca Students and it looks like there's a lawsuit starting to organize. https://www.facebook.com/groups/216961703013146/ Our SON director still thinks we're going to get concurrency waivers but I'm not so sure. They're talking about giving us incompletes on theory so we can complete them together with clinical. 

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why concurrency is the hill that they're choosing to die on.

 

Thanks. Yes, I am in that FB group. I recently applied for two temp CNA positions out of desperation to try to get some hours before the May 31st deadline because the BRN is approving some work experiences towards clinical hours. Many in my cohort work and have been able to get some work exp hours approved, but since I am a FT homeschooling mama, I don't work. But, given the cutbacks on hours due to low census, I doubt that I will get hired on as a CNA. Plus, I really have no clue why CNA hours would even count as equivalent to student nurse med-surg hours anyway, but whatever. I will take what I can get at this point. I don't care if I have to work NOC shift and then sleep while the kids school themselves on the iPad for the rest of the year. 😉 I agree with you, I don't think the BRN is going to waive the concurrency requirement. They could be doing so much more to help us, and they are just so stinking rigid. Our cohorts in other states are moving right along while us CA folks are stuck. I hope things get moving for you soon. ❤️ 

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1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

I'm not sure my area was ever completely compliant, but my neighbors lately have stepped it up in having people over & not bothering about spacing.

If the weather improves, it will only get worse here, I bet. But, our area is loosening some restrictions next week, so I anticipate seeing more people out visiting than even now.

We are in Florida, so have been warm and nice and yeah, my neighbors never stopped socializing. Every night they are out there hanging out. Yes, the are outside, but they have their lawn chairs in a circle, each chair right next to the other. MAYBE 1-2 feet in between. Even knowing some were working at the grocery store, so high exposure. And now they have gone from just the three houses in a row socializing nightly to adding in people I've never seen before, so from other neighborhoods! And kids playing together. They are polite about it but I know they don't get why we don't join in . The one mentioned that they socialize "every night" as if that made it better? And yeserday was asking DH something while we were outside working on the yard and kept getting too close! DH kept backing up. So frustrating! 

Like, WHAT is so hard about 6 feet apart?!?! 

If they were hanging out in chairs 6 ft apart I'd not care. But this is annoying, and it upsets me especially since the one kid is living there to stay away from him mom, who is a nurse working on a COVID19 ICU floor! The woman sent her 4 yr old to live at grandma's, to keep him safer, and now he's out socializing with the neighbors every night!

And people in the stores are terrible, no one keeps a distance, lots not wearing masks, etc. 

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My echocardiogram scheduler was told to postpone all April appointments to after June when she called me. I told her my insurance won’t pay for June so she let my appointment stay. Usually the echocardiogram unit is fully booked on all slots and I have taken 7:30am slots because those were the only ones left.  I think that there would be upset patients and their families over the postponements of appointments. 

My radiation scheduler was told to switch as many appointments to telemedicine as possible even for June appointments. I told the scheduler I have no where private to do it at home during their office hours. That I could postpone again if needed (appointment was originally in May)  because my insurance gives a bigger date range for end of radiation treatment follow up appointment. Besides my oncology surgeon has checked my lumpectomy and radiation area in early April so I am not worried. I would be worried if my oncology surgeon’s appointment was the one postponed.

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Medical is opening back up here, and that is taking some of the tension off. People want life to go back to normal but I hear mixed opinions on whether we can do safely do that or not. 

I am currently feeling a lot of pressure to commit to xyz summer activity or to commit to going to see my parents and it isn’t happening.  The fundamentals haven’t changed here. There is still no easy access to testing. 
 

I hope we can continue to work from home for months to come...I would much rather have a slow opening of everything else first.
 

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27 minutes ago, hopeallgoeswell said:

People here are ready to get back to work.  We have more data now than we did 6 weeks ago and the numbers are not nearly as bad as originally predicted, especially in areas with high testing of anyone/antibody testing.  

The Numbers are not nearly as bad as expected because the stay at home orders were very effective, and Washington state people generally heeded them well.

17 minutes ago, sassenach said:

No one believes him. I think that's obvious.

Which I guess is an example of no good deed goes on punished. The California governor responded quickly to the situation and as a result California did not end up being hit nearly as hard as would be expected for one of the first highly populated areas to be hit. 

11 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

The governor did not say weeks left. He said he would reopen based on his six factor plan (https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/California-Roadmap-to-Modify-the-Stay-at-Home-Order.pdf). He said that it could have been weeks left in a scolding tone. Despite being a democrat majority neighborhood, people generally don’t believe politicians of either party (including independents). 

He clearly said that California was looking at weeks and not months away from loosening restrictions. He did warn that could change if people do not follow social distancing rules. Which is true. And it’s what’s especially frustrating to me in my area; we are close to be able to ease up on things, but people deciding that they’re just not willing to be patient so that we can do this successfully could ruin it for everyone. Gov. Newsom: Changes to Virus Order May Come Within Weeks

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3 minutes ago, kand said:

Which I guess is an example of no good deed goes on punished. The California governor responded quickly to the situation and as a result California did not end up being hit nearly as hard as would be expected for one of the first highly populated areas to be hit. 

The governor was SF Mayor, then Lieutenant Governor, then Governor. People do not forget easily.

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People are still being very cautious in Belgium. The fines are pretty high if caught out for nonessential reasons. But after May 4th when things open up a bit more, I think police will have trouble enforcing stay-at-home so people will break more rules. 

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Our state (Texas) just announced limited openings.

So -- what's the reaction been? A whole lot of "good luck, y'all, I'm not gonna be in the first wave....."  mixed with more willingness to get together with neighbors/friends. Somehow, gathering your neighbors together seems to feel safer to folks than going to the store or a restaurant to some people. 

Throughout the 7 or 8 weeks of this so far, none of the kids in our neighborhood have stopped playing in the street together., though the parents have mostly been social distancing (not entirely). People are trying to go 2 wks between shopping, and I'm seeing that continue even with the extended shopping hours our stores are offering now, so far. 

It's been a mixed bag of "I'm so ready to be waited on" and "I'm waiting to see if there's a new wave when things open." 

Within our family, my MIL at the beginning was watching our dogs (for Spring Break); when we went to pick them up, she stayed in her house, and just opened the front door to let the dogs out when we drove up. Now, we've gone and parked at the edge of her yard and eaten food (but she would not let us bring her anything), and she came and sat in the yard, about 12 feet away.  The week after that, she let us and SIL both come over under the same set-up (everyone ordered their own pizza, drinks, etc.). The week after that, we all took food and chairs and drinks and sat in SIL's back yard, same thing. She's reached a point where she's comfortable using their bathroom (or letting us use hers) as long as there are disinfectant wipes to wipe everything down before/after, but she's not comfortable with close contact with us still. SIL on the other hand is letting her kids go to sleep-overs at the neighbors. :shrug: 

So, a big mix. I've got friends talking about "If you had $100 for every person you knew personally with Covid-19, how much would you have? I bet it would be zero...."  and then I've got friends talking about "I wear my mask so you don't die in a hospital alone, and all I ask is that you do the same for me..."  I'm not so sure that's exactly "split along party lines" though....at least not here. I've got friends that I am 99% sure probably vote the same way, but on opposite sides of the aisle on this for whatever reason. 

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What's making it hard at my house is that my dh and I have the policy that we'll wait a couple weeks after things open up a bit and we watch the numbers to decide our level of comfort with getting out. This is massively hard for my kids. Because other families are ready to go back to business as usual, Bible studies in homes, etc. And I've told my kids to hang on just a few more weeks till there's hard evidence about what's going to play out. 

The totally understand the wisdom of that position. But they still are sad and lonely. They miss their friends and it's harder when they see that their friends are having fun things and they can't.

So yeah...

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4 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Our state (Texas) just announced limited openings.

So -- what's the reaction been? A whole lot of "good luck, y'all, I'm not gonna be in the first wave....."  mixed with more willingness to get together with neighbors/friends. Somehow, gathering your neighbors together seems to feel safer to folks than going to the store or a restaurant to some people. 

Throughout the 7 or 8 weeks of this so far, none of the kids in our neighborhood have stopped playing in the street together., though the parents have mostly been social distancing (not entirely). People are trying to go 2 wks between shopping, and I'm seeing that continue even with the extended shopping hours our stores are offering now, so far. 

It's been a mixed bag of "I'm so ready to be waited on" and "I'm waiting to see if there's a new wave when things open." 

Within our family, my MIL at the beginning was watching our dogs (for Spring Break); when we went to pick them up, she stayed in her house, and just opened the front door to let the dogs out when we drove up. Now, we've gone and parked at the edge of her yard and eaten food (but she would not let us bring her anything), and she came and sat in the yard, about 12 feet away.  The week after that, she let us and SIL both come over under the same set-up (everyone ordered their own pizza, drinks, etc.). The week after that, we all took food and chairs and drinks and sat in SIL's back yard, same thing. She's reached a point where she's comfortable using their bathroom (or letting us use hers) as long as there are disinfectant wipes to wipe everything down before/after, but she's not comfortable with close contact with us still. SIL on the other hand is letting her kids go to sleep-overs at the neighbors. :shrug: 

So, a big mix. I've got friends talking about "If you had $100 for every person you knew personally with Covid-19, how much would you have? I bet it would be zero...."  and then I've got friends talking about "I wear my mask so you don't die in a hospital alone, and all I ask is that you do the same for me..."  I'm not so sure that's exactly "split along party lines" though....at least not here. I've got friends that I am 99% sure probably vote the same way, but on opposite sides of the aisle on this for whatever reason. 

 

Ah. On my facebook, I've seen people opening stores even before they were officially allowed to. And going to restaurants, that were dine in (and note it does not take eeffect until May 1)

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Well, I've only gone somewhere twice since mid-March, so I don't have a good feel for what the culture here is like. But, we did pick up take-out on one of those trips, and I will say that not a single worker in that restaurant (that I saw) had a face mask. We won't be using them again any time soon. The parking lots of the local grocery store and Wal-mart both looked decently full.  So did the gas station. It was a nice day, so I saw a lot of people in yards with no masks. But I didn't see any large groups or anything that looked like socializing. It just seemed like people doing yard work (mowing, weeding, etc...), so them not wearing masks in their own yards doesn't bother me.

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13 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Medical is opening back up here, and that is taking some of the tension off. People want life to go back to normal but I hear mixed opinions on whether we can do safely do that or not. 

I am currently feeling a lot of pressure to commit to xyz summer activity or to commit to going to see my parents and it isn’t happening.  The fundamentals haven’t changed here. There is still no easy access to testing. 
 

I hope we can continue to work from home for months to come...I would much rather have a slow opening of everything else first.
 

My oldest is planning to work at a summer camp, where he worked last year. The camp is operating under a "things will be totally normal" assumption, and planning on training starting May 11th. How on earth that fits with state guidelines I have no idea; I wish they'd outline their plan for handling the inevitable delay, and how they plan to run camp in a safe manner that follows social distancing guidelines. 

Our state "Open Texas" order that went out just now opened "outdoor sports with 4 or fewer participants" so the basketball goals and things at parks aren't even supposed to open yet, until there are at least 2 weeks of good numbers after the opening of tennis courts. HOW the camp thinks ropes course, zip lines, bunk rooms.., lunch rooms with only 25% capacity (or even 50%) is going to mean "camp like normal" is beyond me. 

(Our state DOES have good, easy access to testing up and running, sufficient hospital capacity, sufficient PPE, etc.)

And yes, DH definitely hopes to work from home for the long term. his company is being very proactive and slow to reopen, as their owned by Italians who of course were much harder hit than us. Their plan to reopen sounds very good; I trust it. I do not trust the camp at all and am so hesitant to let DS go work for them (acknowledging it's not actually my choice as he is, of course, an adult). 

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4 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

Ah. On my facebook, I've seen people opening stores even before they were officially allowed to. And going to restaurants, that were dine in (and note it does not take eeffect until May 1)

Yikes, really? The only store I know that has been "open" despite sort of not being permitted is my local quilt shop; she's listed as a "studio" so wasn't allowed to stay open like the big box stores have been. She's been continuing with curb side only during this time. I've not seen any stores actually *open* who weren't allowed. 

And I've seen/heard of only one restaurant doing "dine in" and it was patio seating only, and reduced number of tables spaced further apart. Lots of curb side, though (and heavily leaning towards the places that offer margaritas to go, at least in my area....)

 

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1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

We've had a couple local protests here in San Diego, which were basically thinly-veiled Trump rallies. People are weary, and there are some outspoken whiners, but most people are trucking along. They just recently partially reopened our parks and beaches/bays, so that will placate people for a bit.

Newsom said yesterday that they were going to have to start cracking down on enforcement after OC had 40k people at Newport Beach on Saturday. He's been pretty clear in his daily briefings about the standards that need to be met before the state can be reopened. Did people in the Bay area honestly think that things were reopening soon? That seems pretty unrealistic given what he's been saying all along about the metrics that need to be met. We are pretty far from hitting those targets.

Like most things in the US, I see this breaking down along party lines, though I have no clue why this has turned political. My more conservative friends/family are taking more risks and are complaining more; my more liberal friends, less so. Our behavior as a country seems particularly irrational to me.

 

 

It is the media they consume, pure and simple.  My MIL was actually worried about this virus in January when a plane from Wuhan stopped here in Anchorage. She bought the kids travel size hand sanitizer because we had to travel in February but now of course it's just overblown hogwash used to control the states. The difference is only that her news sources are talking about it now. 

 

Edited to add, I am a small government conservative who takes this seriously but I recognize crazy media when I see it. I cannot tell you the number of fake stories and conspiracy theories I am subjected to through family. I completely understand those who have legit concerns about costs of closing. What I hate is the "it's no big deal, masks are for pansies" crowd. I'm not talking about people here but rather my own family. 

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1 hour ago, kand said:

 

When I say that it doesn’t matter if people want to be done, I’m not referring to fines or enforcement of rules, I’m referring to the virus itself. We can’t just decide to be done with this pandemic because it’s hard and harming us and our economy.  If people decide they’re done and start ignoring the rules en masse, it’s going to get much worse than it has been. 

It’s crazy. I think at this point we could have an astroid headed for our planet aimed to hit somewhere in the US, and people would split along political lines in their response to it. As you say, it’s totally irrational.

But the governor has said that California is looking at weeks left of shelter in place, not months, so I don’t know why there are so many people continuing this narrative that it’s going to be until next year.

Except, it's not along party lines. As with other posters here, I live in a very liberal area, and many are over it.

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1 hour ago, sassenach said:

No one believes him. I think that's obvious.

No one believes him because every time he says he's going up update us on a plan,  his update is that we're not there yet and that's the update. 

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39 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

my neighbors never stopped socializing. Every night they are out there hanging out.

 

Same here. We briefly, briefly had a bit of time **after cops started telling ppl to do what the governor had told them to do and not a minute sooner 😠 ** where people did the things. 

So yeah now they are all in a circle jerk about how they need everything to change and frankly I am so aggravated to the hilt about it. All the excuses one could find in other places, the most pressing being that people are out how work, are not an issue in my neighborhood. We are not a cohort that's lost their income over this. All the restaurants have stayed open for carry-out and you can carry out alcohol too. And they never really stopped hanging out with each other every day. These aren't library and museum people. 

So what they mean is: they're tired of being with their kids and want schools, then summer camps to be open. 

Whatever the impetus for people being "fed up" with not spreading coronavirus all day every day is in other places, here it's bald douchebaggery. They're "sick and tired" of being mildly inconvenienced at the grocery store and by not being able to sit down in restaurants while people serve them food and not being able to send the kids they can't stand to be around off to someone else. 😠 

I say all this HATING the shelter in place order myself. But I hate the idea of leaving my children motherless a f**kton of a lot more (I am the vulnerable one in the house). So balls to all this petty whining. SOME PEOPLE HAVE REAL PROBLEMS. We could be throwing energy into figuring that out and getting people the help they need--which will vary from region to region-- but instead people are taking these damnable all-or-nothing stances about  re-opening the economy. And they couldn't care less at whose expense that would be. 

 

ooooo I am so mad 

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There is a lot of grumbling around here.  Many people never followed the rules anyway.  A lot of our neighbors had big parties on Easter and continue to have large groups over with little to no social distancing.  Most people at the stores are not wearing mask or even really attempting to follow distancing unless a staff member calls them on it.  My mom said that the small (and only) store in her town is doing more business than usual.  No social distancing, no masks, just crowds of people visiting and acting like nothing is going on.

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44 minutes ago, kand said:

 

Which I guess is an example of no good deed goes on punished. The California governor responded quickly to the situation and as a result California did not end up being hit nearly as hard as would be expected for one of the first highly populated areas to be hit. 

He clearly said that California was looking at weeks and not months away from loosening restrictions. He did warn that could change if people do not follow social distancing rules. Which is true. And it’s what’s especially frustrating to me in my area; we are close to be able to ease up on things, but people deciding that they’re just not willing to be patient so that we can do this successfully could ruin it for everyone. Gov. Newsom: Changes to Virus Order May Come Within Weeks

 

Agree. Because it looks like no big deal with small numbers people won't be as cautious with the simple things that could make a difference so then the harder top down things are implemented. Why do people have to experience things first hand to learn from them?

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