Delta, United are Canceling Many Summer Flights to Europe

[mommyoffive]

I know some people still had vacations planned for summer, so I wanted to pass this along

 

https://thriftytraveler.com/delta-united-canceling-summer-flights-europe/

[MEmama]

If anyone has successfully gotten a refund from Delta, I’d love to hear how. We have only been issued a voucher for our cancelled April trip, but no refund despite their legal obligation. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by MEmama

[mommyoffive]

23 minutes ago, MEmama said:

If anyone has successfully gotten a refund from Delta, I’d love to hear how. We have only been issued a voucher for our cancelled April trip, but no refund despite their legal obligation. 

 

Wow, that really sucks.  I will let you know if I hear anything. 

[Guest]

I’m “glad” that British Airways has finally cancelled dd’s flight that was supposed to return her and her bf back here from Croatia in June. It seems more likely to me she can get a refund now the flight was cancelled. (Obviously she wasn’t going to be on that flight, since she had to come home in March.) 

 

[Lanny]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

If anyone has successfully gotten a refund from Delta, I’d love to hear how. We have only been issued a voucher for our cancelled April trip, but no refund despite their legal obligation. 

 

I think there is an online article about how someone did this. It depends upon when you made the reservation and who (the airline or you) cancelled the reservation. This was not possible until early in April 2020, when the U.S. Dept. of Transportation issued an Enforcement Order for flights within the USA and to/from the USA. I cannot remember in the past there being a requirement to Refund Non-Refundable airline tickets.

We are hoping American Airlines will officially cancel the flight DD has scheduled in Early May 2020, from the USA to Colombia. Colombian airports are closed to International flights, until, I believe, unless they extend the ban here, June 1, 2020. So, they cannot operate the flight.   My understanding is that if the airline cancels and cannot provide an alternate that departs (or arrives?) within a certain time period, they must Refund instead of just issuing a Credit.  A Refund is always much better than a Credit.

If you have not already done so, mention the U.S. Department of Transportation Enforcement Order to Delta Airlines. If necessary, ask the bank that issued your credit card to Chargeback the cost of the ticket(s).  Also, you can file a complaint with U.S. DoT. 

I will try to find the articles I sent to DD tomorrow. If I can find them, I will come back here and include the links.

[MEmama]

2 minutes ago, Lanny said:

 

I think there is an online article about how someone did this. It depends upon when you made the reservation and who (the airline or you) cancelled the reservation. This was not possible until early in April 2020, when the U.S. Dept. of Transportation issued an Enforcement Order for flights within the USA and to/from the USA. I cannot remember in the past there being a requirement to Refund Non-Refundable airline tickets.

We are hoping American Airlines will officially cancel the flight DD has scheduled in Early May 2020, from the USA to Colombia. Colombian airports are closed to International flights, until, I believe, unless they extend the ban here, June 1, 2020. So, they cannot operate the flight.   My understanding is that if the airline cancels and cannot provide an alternate that departs (or arrives?) within a certain time period, they must Refund instead of just issuing a Credit.  A Refund is always much better than a Credit.

If you have not already done so, mention the U.S. Department of Transportation Enforcement Order to Delta Airlines. If necessary, ask the bank that issued your credit card to Chargeback the cost of the ticket(s).  Also, you can file a complaint with U.S. DoT. 

I will try to find the articles I sent to DD tomorrow. If I can find them, I will come back here and include the links.

Thanks, Lanny. We did wait until the flight was cancelled before contacting them. We’ve only received a voucher, and when DH disputed it they basically responded that they are busy, we’ll hear from them eventually. Doesn’t sound promising. I’m thinking social media might be the way to go. 

[Lanny]

If anyone in the USA still has vacations planned for Europe  in 2020, they must not follow current events...  Also, if the CDC regulations are still in effect, people who have been in China, Iran or most European countries, 14 days prior, cannot enter the USA at a Port of Entry.  Few if any flights, because few passengers.    Most if not all Tourist things in Europe are probably closed. And Quarantines should be required, so the first 14 days in a hotel.  Better in 2021...

Here in Colombia, I think someone who came here, somehow, from a country like Spain, would have a difficult time getting in. That's how the Covid-19 in Colombia began. Someone who came from Spain.

I believe that Domestic flights will be allowed to resume here in Colombia, with some limitations, very soon, but International flights are banned.

[Lanny]

3 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Thanks, Lanny. We did wait until the flight was cancelled before contacting them. We’ve only received a voucher, and when DH disputed it they basically responded that they are busy, we’ll hear from them eventually. Doesn’t sound promising. I’m thinking social media might be the way to go. 

 

I will try to find some links for you tomorrow.  I am going to shutdown my laptop now. It will depend upon when you bought your  ticket(s) and if there were any extraordinary offers by the airline when the ticket(s) were purchased, about changes or cancellations.

What you described does NOT surprise me. The airlines would prefer that you do NOT know about the  U.S. Department of Transportation Enforcement Order that was issued early in April 2020.  I don't think anything like that has ever happened before,  about Refunds for Non-Refundable airline tickets.

What you described sounds, trying to be very polite and correct, like "B.S." 

After you contact them again, privately, if no joy, then yes, I would try sending them a PM on Twitter (or even on Facebook).

If still no joy, I would be  contacting the bank that issued the Credit Card and the U.S. DoT and maybe even the BBB in Atlanta. A Chargeback from the bank that issued the Credit Card would get their attention. 

The airlines, with rare exceptions (SPIRIT is one exception) have extreme cash flow problems. Lots of tickets to refund and no cash coming in. Also, the airlines with a large percentage of International flights are in deep stuff. In addition, many of them have cancelled the majority of their Domestic flights within the USA. It is a very tough industry, under normal conditions.

But first, I would try to work it out with the airline.  As a former airline employee, I can tell you to try to be, at all times, polite and courteous and friendly, with the airline personnel you communicate with. Try to put yourself in their shoes.

OH.  One thing I remember is that once they approve the Refund, if it was purchased with a CC, they must refund the cost of the tickets within 7 days.  And if the tickets were paid for by Check (people still pay by check?) or Cash, the airline has 20 days. They must refund to the same way the tickets were purchased.

Note: They are busy. That's true. Incredibly busy and with fewer than normal employees to take care of the customers.

[HSMWB]

50 minutes ago, Lanny said:

If anyone in the USA still has vacations planned for Europe  in 2020, they must not follow current events...  Also, if the CDC regulations are still in effect, people who have been in China, Iran or most European countries, 14 days prior, cannot enter the USA at a Port of Entry.  Few if any flights, because few passengers.    Most if not all Tourist things in Europe are probably closed. And Quarantines should be required, so the first 14 days in a hotel.  Better in 2021...

Some people unfortunately purchased flight tickets for the summer before being aware a global pandemic had started . . . 

[stephanier.1765]

@MEmamaMy flight was canceled by Southwest and the only information I can find where Southwest will actually give me back cash vs voucher is to send a request via snail mail. Couldn't hurt to try that approach but who knows. This whole thing is ridiculous. They are purposely making this difficult for the customer.

Edited April 28, 2020 by stephanier.1765

[Lanny]

Below are some links I found when Googling for my DD, about how to request a Refund for her Non-Refundable ticket on American Airlines, from the USA to Colombia in early May 2020, which is impossible now, because Colombia has banned International flights until at least June 1st. (I suspect they may extend that ban, into July 2020). Although I mention American Airlines, the same things apply to other airlines.  This would have been almost impossible, before the U.S. Department of Transportation Enforcement Notice, issued early in April 2020.  To get a Refund (not just a Credit) for a Non-Refundable ticket, is unheard of. This depends on the date the ticket was purchased and whether or not the airline had extra permissive rules about waiving charges for changes and or cancellations. However, the goal, for most   people, is to get a Refund and not just a Credit...

(1) This is the link for the article that was in USA TODAY. It may not
be 100% accurate, but I found it very complete and interesting and
hopefully everything is correct. It was the most complete information
I saw. Read the information in the Video too!  Very interesting!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2020/04/10/coronavirus-travel-airline-refund-dot-canceled-flight-changed-flight-american-airlines/2964706001/

(2) This is the URL for the U.S. Department of Transportation
Enforcement Notice that was issued early in April according to the USA
TODAY article. If you want to, you can view or download the .PDF file
from the link on that web page.

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/enforcement-notice-regarding-refunds-carriers-given-unprecedented-impact-covid-19

(3) Someone filed a "Class Action" lawsuit against American Airlines
about this and    other people have filed similar lawsuits against
other carriers:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/04/22/american-airlines-customer-sues-airline-in-class-action-lawsuit-demanding-refunds-for-flights-cancelled-due-to-covid-19/

(4) Here's another article:
https://thepointsguy.com/guide/refund-for-canceled-flight/

[J-rap]

Our dd has a ticket on a trans-Atlantic flight in late July...  She's tentatively coming home for a 3-week visit, but who knows.  (She made the reservation right before the coronavirus hit.)  It'll be so disappointing if she can't come, but we know that it's very likely she can't.  And her beau (who is also on the flight and not a US citizen) would probably not even be allowed to fly here, or my dd -- even if she gets here, might not be able to return to her current home abroad.  Ugh.

[Lanny]

39 minutes ago, J-rap said:

Our dd has a ticket on a trans-Atlantic flight in late July...  She's tentatively coming home for a 3-week visit, but who knows.  (She made the reservation right before the coronavirus hit.)  It'll be so disappointing if she can't come, but we know that it's very likely she can't.  And her beau (who is also on the flight and not a US citizen) would probably not even be allowed to fly here, or my dd -- even if she gets here, might not be able to return to her current home abroad.  Ugh.

 

That is 3 months from now and she already has the ticket so I would just wait. IMO there is a possibility she could make the trip to visit you. However, there are other issues. If the CDC regulations now in effect (nobody from China, Iran, or most European countries) continue in place, would she be admitted to the USA? I think the answer to that is yes, because she is a U.S. Citizen. With regard to her boyfriend, if the same regulations are in place in late July and he has been in one of those countries within 14 days of arriving at a U.S. Port of Entry, he would probably not be admitted.  And then, the subject of Quarantines comes up. Your DD would probably need to SIP (Shelter in Place) in your home for 14 days. Would she be able to return to her overseas location after visiting you?  

I hope your DD will be able to visit you. Our DD won't be able to come here early in May as scheduled, and I am not sure about June, but we also wonder about her being able to get back to the USA for the Fall semester, so she will probably continue to SIP at her school. 

Unless your DD is willing to risk her current situation, IMO it is better for her not to risk going to the USA to visit you, but, again, late July is almost 3 months from today.

I would just wait and see and take a close look early in July 2020.

[J-rap]

Those are all good points, and are exactly what we're concerned about.  And yes -- it's 3 months away so we'll see, but we are trying not to get our hopes up.  

Is your dd okay with staying at the school through the summer, if necessary?

[Lanny]

11 minutes ago, J-rap said:

Those are all good points, and are exactly what we're concerned about.  And yes -- it's 3 months away so we'll see, but we are trying not to get our hopes up.  

Is your dd okay with staying at the school through the summer, if necessary?

 

She doesn't have many options. Colombia banned Domestic airline flights, but I think those can resume limited operations soon. However, there is a total ban on International flights to/from Colombia. at least I believe, until June 1st. But, I noticed that SPIRIT had been showing their flight from Fort Lauderdale to Cali available starting on 10 June and now they are showing 05 July and I have a lot of respect for SPIRIT, so will not be surprised if Colombia extends the ban on International flights until July. And then, fingers crossed that the Fall semester will be in-person and not Online.

She would like to come home if possible, but at this time, I don't think that's possible. 

[Lanny]

With regard to who can enter the USA at this time, depending upon where they have been in the previous 14 days, the below is in an email I received today from the ACS in the U.S. Embassy in Bogota. They have arranged with SPIRIT AIRLINES to operate occasional "Humanitarian" flights, from various Colombian cities, to Fort Lauderdale, for U.S. Citizens and Green Card holders.  My belief is this applies to anyone arriving at a Port of Entry in the USA at this time, from anywhere in the world. Many countries in Europe are included in this CDC ban. 

"Due to current travel guidelines in the United States, persons who have been in China, Iran, or certain European countries within 14 days prior to the flight will not be allowed to board this flight.  For more information, please click here."

[MEmama]

7 hours ago, Lanny said:

Below are some links I found when Googling for my DD, about how to request a Refund for her Non-Refundable ticket on American Airlines, from the USA to Colombia in early May 2020, which is impossible now, because Colombia has banned International flights until at least June 1st. (I suspect they may extend that ban, into July 2020). Although I mention American Airlines, the same things apply to other airlines.  This would have been almost impossible, before the U.S. Department of Transportation Enforcement Notice, issued early in April 2020.  To get a Refund (not just a Credit) for a Non-Refundable ticket, is unheard of. This depends on the date the ticket was purchased and whether or not the airline had extra permissive rules about waiving charges for changes and or cancellations. However, the goal, for most   people, is to get a Refund and not just a Credit...

(1) This is the link for the article that was in USA TODAY. It may not
be 100% accurate, but I found it very complete and interesting and
hopefully everything is correct. It was the most complete information
I saw. Read the information in the Video too!  Very interesting!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2020/04/10/coronavirus-travel-airline-refund-dot-canceled-flight-changed-flight-american-airlines/2964706001/

(2) This is the URL for the U.S. Department of Transportation
Enforcement Notice that was issued early in April according to the USA
TODAY article. If you want to, you can view or download the .PDF file
from the link on that web page.

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/enforcement-notice-regarding-refunds-carriers-given-unprecedented-impact-covid-19

(3) Someone filed a "Class Action" lawsuit against American Airlines
about this and    other people have filed similar lawsuits against
other carriers:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/04/22/american-airlines-customer-sues-airline-in-class-action-lawsuit-demanding-refunds-for-flights-cancelled-due-to-covid-19/

(4) Here's another article:
https://thepointsguy.com/guide/refund-for-canceled-flight/

Thank you, Lanny!

[CAJinBE]

Americans can travel back to the US from Europe, but have to quarantine for 14 days. We have plans to fly home in June and so far we have only received one small change in itinerary from Delta (a longer layover at our stop in Atlanta). Notifications from the US Embassy in Brussels indicate that Americans, while not able to fly out of Brussels currently, can drive to Germany and fly out of Frankfurt. You have to be prepared to show your ticket to border guards to make the crossing. Not exactly the most convenient way to fly home but at this point I'm ready to do whatever I have to do. I realize we will be self-quarantining at our final destination and I'm glad it has a pool. Have to look on the bright side these days.

[katilac]

On 4/27/2020 at 7:40 PM, stephanier.1765 said:

@MEmamaMy flight was canceled by Southwest and the only information I can find where Southwest will actually give me back cash vs voucher is to send a request via snail mail. Couldn't hurt to try that approach but who knows. This whole thing is ridiculous. They are purposely making this difficult for the customer.

Check your credit card - Southwest refunded us for a cancelled flight without doing anything.  

[stephanier.1765]

10 hours ago, katilac said:

Check your credit card - Southwest refunded us for a cancelled flight without doing anything.  

When I go to my Southwest account, the funds are listed in "My Travel Funds" along with an expiration date. 😞

 

[Lanny]

11 hours ago, katilac said:

Check your credit card - Southwest refunded us for a cancelled flight without doing anything.  

 

Awesome. Kudos to Southwest. Of the largest U.S. carriers, I believe that Southwest and Spirit are in the best financial condition. However, they are refunding tons of money and have little money coming in, so there is a huge cash-flow problem, for them and for all airlines at this time.

[Sneezyone]

12 hours ago, katilac said:

Check your credit card - Southwest refunded us for a cancelled flight without doing anything.  

 

I hope this is true. We had May flights scheduled to FL and the email said all they were offering was a rescheduled trip. We have $280PP listed as a credit toward travel, expiring in 2022.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Sneezyone

[*LC]

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

When I go to my Southwest account, the funds are listed in "My Travel Funds" along with an expiration date. 😞

 

If it has an expiration date, that is most likely a voucher. So, I would send the snail-mail letter. I do wish there was an easier way, actually I wish there were multiple ways to request a refund because my parents would rather send a snail-mail letter than fill out an online form. 

I read an article on thepointsguy.com today that explains how long airlines are taking to process refunds. This is what it said about Southwest. 

Southwest Airlines refund processing time

Southwest is the carrier than never imposes change or cancellation fees. But, the value of your ticket will be stored in a credit if you choose to make voluntary modifications to your travel. That’s why it pays to wait until the airline makes an involuntary change, so you can get your money back.

With Southwest, the refund process is taking anywhere from five to 30 days according to our research.

Southwest’s official policy is:

Our Refunds Department will process an eligible refund to the original credit/debit card within seven business days from the date we receive your request. Your card-issuing bank may then take up to ten business days to post the credit to your account.

[*LC]

15 minutes ago, Lanny said:

 

Awesome. Kudos to Southwest. Of the largest U.S. carriers, I believe that Southwest and Spirit are in the best financial condition. However, they are refunding tons of money and have little money coming in, so there is a huge cash-flow problem, for them and for all airlines at this time.

The same article from thepointsguy.com says this about Spirit.

Spirit Airlines refund processing time

I bet this is going to shock you. Would you believe me if I said that Spirit — the nation’s largest ultra-low cost carrier — was refunding tickets the same business day?

Well, don’t just take my word for it. You can read all about Mommy Points’ experience getting a Spirit flight refunded via text message.

In fact, this matches what we’ve seen in the TPG Lounge. Though Spirit’s not necessarily renowned for customer service, we’ve got to give the carrier kudos for its timely handling of refunds.

Perhaps it’s moving so quickly since most people are electing to take vouchers. Of course, we wouldn’t blame you for choosing a voucher though. Why? Because Spirit’s website makes no mention of the possibility of getting your money back for a canceled flight.

[MEmama]

17 minutes ago, *LC said:

The same article from thepointsguy.com says this about Spirit.

Spirit Airlines refund processing time

I bet this is going to shock you. Would you believe me if I said that Spirit — the nation’s largest ultra-low cost carrier — was refunding tickets the same business day?

Well, don’t just take my word for it. You can read all about Mommy Points’ experience getting a Spirit flight refunded via text message.

In fact, this matches what we’ve seen in the TPG Lounge. Though Spirit’s not necessarily renowned for customer service, we’ve got to give the carrier kudos for its timely handling of refunds.

Perhaps it’s moving so quickly since most people are electing to take vouchers. Of course, we wouldn’t blame you for choosing a voucher though. Why? Because Spirit’s website makes no mention of the possibility of getting your money back for a canceled flight.

Wait, so are they refunding or just giving vouchers the same day? The two are very different.

[*LC]

On 4/27/2020 at 5:09 PM, MEmama said:

If anyone has successfully gotten a refund from Delta, I’d love to hear how. We have only been issued a voucher for our cancelled April trip, but no refund despite their legal obligation. 

 

My adult kid has received at least two refunds from Delta. One was automatically credited back to CC, that is how my kid learn the flights were cancelled. That was for an international flight. Another one was for a domestic flight and required a call to request a refund rather voucher. I don't know how long it took, but it was not instant. So, I'd say there is reason and precedent that you will receive a refund just like the person said. My kid never heard from Delta, but the money was credited to credit card.

One of my college kids received a voucher for a flight with American, that I am having trouble finding out if the flight was cancelled or not. The conference my student was cancelled and American said no need to do anything with flight. I had booked a flight to the conference for my student, but cancelled it immediately when I learned a different airport was closer to the conference. I cancelled it within the 24 hours of book, so it should have been refunded automatically. It wasn't, so I had to dispute with CC. I  did receive a credit on my CC after they investigated it.

My youngest two and I have tickets to Europe this summer, but I'm waiting for the airline to cancel our flights. They are to a country that isn't accepting flights right now, so I know they will be cancelled. We were going to visit my college kids that were to be there this summer for study abroad and for an internship abroad. Only one had paid for a ticket. Unfortunately, a friend's family "bought" the tickets, so they could sit together;  the family cancelled the ticket, before the airline did. So, my has a voucher that is good through 2022, but is unlikely to study abroad due to other class requirements. I'm sure my kid will make some trips before then, so it will work out.

This is what the TPG has to say about Delta. 

Though Delta’s invested heavily in onboard technology, the carrier’s reservations systems seem to be overloaded by the number of refund requests. In fact, we’ve heard reports of refunds taking as little as four business days, all the way to over 21. I’ve personally had multiple Delta tickets refunded since the outbreak of the coronavirus. The ones that were processed the fastest were approved directly by the phone agent I was speaking with. The others that I’m still waiting on were sent to the Refunds Department, and are supposed to be handled within 21 days.

Officially, Delta’s policy is:

We will make every effort to process eligible credits and refunds within 7 days. However, due to extremely high volume related to coronavirus and government-issued travel guidance, please allow up to 30 business days.

 

[Mary in VA]

Had a trip to Ireland with DD booked for early July through a travel agent. DD is on active duty in the army and very early in this pandemic it was clear she wasn't going to be able to go.  I called the travel agent in the beginning of April and she advised we wait to see what the airlines would do.  I just saw this thread and was about to check what our flight status was, when low and behold I received an email from the travel agent. We are getting a refund from United, less processing fees. We canceled the tour portion and will get that back, less penalties. I'll file with the trip insurance to get the penalities back. The travel agent said it is taking around 90 days to get money refunded.

[MEmama]

For anyone else waiting on a Ryanair refund:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52498691

[Lanny]

On 4/30/2020 at 12:44 PM, *LC said:

The same article from thepointsguy.com says this about Spirit.

Spirit Airlines refund processing time

I bet this is going to shock you. Would you believe me if I said that Spirit — the nation’s largest ultra-low cost carrier — was refunding tickets the same business day?

Well, don’t just take my word for it. You can read all about Mommy Points’ experience getting a Spirit flight refunded via text message.

In fact, this matches what we’ve seen in the TPG Lounge. Though Spirit’s not necessarily renowned for customer service, we’ve got to give the carrier kudos for its timely handling of refunds.

Perhaps it’s moving so quickly since most people are electing to take vouchers. Of course, we wouldn’t blame you for choosing a voucher though. Why? Because Spirit’s website makes no mention of the possibility of getting your money back for a canceled flight.

 

If you had asked me, 24 months ago, about going on SPIRIT, I would not have been enthusiastic. However, now, I have learned many things about SPIRIT AIRLINES and I have great respect for them. Of the largest U.S. carriers, at the end of 2019, SPIRIT AIRLINES had approximately one billion dollars (USD) in the bank. Probably Southwest was also in good financial shape, before the Covid-19 crisis struck the airline industry?   (Of the largest U.S. Carriers, I believe American is in the worst financial shape and that's the carrier DD needs to get a Refund from). IMO their Check-In here in Cali, last August, was among the best I have ever seen, when DD checked in. Most airlines would have had 2 or 3 agents working on the counter to process the passengers. SPIRIT had approximately 6 agents. It was very smooth and DD had no issues with either of her flights (to the USA and then after a long layover a domestic flight,  IMO a long layover is better than a quick connection, especially when one needs to clear Immigration and Customs)