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Welcome to the WTM boards! I see by your post you are new.

If you're looking for ideas for specific programs for each subject area, you might check out this thread:

 

I'm going to answer your question much more broadly:

Having previously homeschooled since 1st/2nd grades, our choice of subjects for 8th grade really just flowed out of what we had done previously. We already knew our overall educational philosophy and goals, we knew what the working level of each of our children was, and so 8th grade was just the "next step" in our homeschooling and educational journey.

For someone who is new to homeschooling and starting in the middle school years, in general, 8th grade is a year to determine where your student's strengths and weaknesses are, and for the whole family to transition from a brick & mortar school/classroom setting for learning, to "what does learning look like for OUR family at home".
 

In general the major goals for middle school, especially 8th grade are:

1. solidify foundational skills -- especially in Math and Writing
2. start work on valuable support skills that will help prepare the student for high school -- such as Typing, basic Computer understanding, and beginning Study Skills (note taking; test-taking tips; memorization techniques; how to learn from a textbook; developing "close reading" skills; time management/stuff management; etc.)
3. explore student interests -- especially through "Electives" and extracurricular activities

optional:
- try high school level work in a subject area ONLY IF the student is advanced in that area and/or is interested in working at a higher level
- cover a topic that is a goal or priority to you, the parent/educational facilitator -- examples: Logic, Health, Career Exploration, Home Ec (Consumer Science) topics, Personal Finance, etc. -- NOTE: these are not just topics for 8th grade, but can be done all through high school, or wait until high school


Here are the major subject areas in middle school/high school, with notes where there is a "typical" or "traditional" 8th grade focus of study:

Language Arts (English) = Literature + Writing + Grammar (and possibly Spelling and Vocabulary)
Math = at the student's level -- 8th graders typically are doing Pre-Algebra or Algebra 1
Science  = 8th graders usually do some sort of General Science, or Physical Science (Integrated Physics & Chemistry), or if ready for high school level work, then Biology, but other options are fine too
Social Studies = 8th graders typically do World Geography/Cultures or U.S. History or World History, but other options are fine too
Foreign Language -- optional -- if the student is ready and a program/teacher/instruction is available
Fine Arts -- optional -- many students start (or continue) to learn an instrument (Music), or study/create/perform with Art, Drama, Dance, Photography, etc.
Electives -- optional -- opportunity for the student to explore an area of interest, and to balance out the academic subjects above

And finally, many families include Bible/Religious studies and/or PE as part of the subject line-up for middle school/high school.


For 8th grade scheduling:
In general, plan on roughly 45-60 minutes of time per day, per subject -- this can vary greatly depending on student needs and interests -- and very roughly, a total of about 5 hours/day -- again, this can vary greatly. Also plan for student "down time" -- to participate in extracurricular activities, to have social time with others, to pursue personal hobbies, to have family time, to have physical activity time, and to just rest/recover.

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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The post you linked to is what I was looking for. Thank you very much!

I’m not a new homeschooler, but we *are* transitioning into classical homeschooling next year. 

I’m unsure about many of my picks because I have not used them before. Specific to us: my son struggles with handwriting, is overly sensitive to a dominant Christian Worldview seeping through in “faith-neutral” (etc.) choices, plays guitar, and wants to learn Japanese next year.

Here are my tentative picks currently (forgive my copy & paste, it was easiest):

A few notes:

-I am aware that Story of the World is written for a younger audience. We are finishing BookShark 6 this year which uses the first two volumes and Kingfisher Encyclopedia as a spine for history. I want to finish the story with him, but we will transition to the outlining next year.

-He has already began AoPS Intro to Algebra, so I know this is a good pick for him. I’d love to hear opinions on which Intro book to pick next for him or general weekly/monthly goals for this book. 

-He has no prior logic experience. 

-We did Song School Latin when he was very small, but have not done any since that time.

-He works very quickly and efficiently.

 

Thank you for any thoughts on our picks!

8:00

Logic

3h

1h

1h

1h

 

 

Art of Argument

$48.90

Brainteasers

$18.99

 

 

 

 

 

Argument Builder

$48.90

Critical Thinking Co Demos

$0.00

8:00

Music

1h

 

 

 

 

1h

Introduction to the Orchestra

$12.99

 

 

8:00

Mathematics

4h 45m

 

 

 

45m

 

Intro to Algebra

$0.00

Moneywise Kids

$13.99

9:00

1h

1h

1h

 

1h

Alcumus and Math Jams

$0.00

Prime Club

$27.84

9:00

Co-op (Thursday)

3h 15m

 

 

 

3h 15m

 

 

 

 

 

10:00

Latin

4h

1h

1h

1h

 

1h

Latin Alive! 1

$139.95

 

 

Japanese

Duolingo

$0.00

Tiny Cards

$0.00

11:00

Word Study

1h

15m

15m

15m

 

15m

Vocab From Classical Roots A

$23.95

Vocab From Classical Roots B

$23.95

11:15

Grammar

3h

45m

45m

45m

 

45m

WTM Purple Bundle Download

$49.90

The Grammar Guidebook

$17.95

WTM Core Instructor Download

$29.95

The Diagramming Dictionary

$17.95

12:00

Lunch

2h 30m

30m

30m

30m

30m

30m

 

 

 

 

12:30

Library (Thursday)

2h 30m

 

 

 

2h 30m

 

 

 

 

 

12:30

History

3h

1h 30m

1h 30m

 

 

 

Story of the World 3

$17.95

 

 

Story of the World 4

$17.95

Timeline Figures

$19.00

12:30

Science

3h

 

 

1h 30m

 

1h 30m

Chemistry for Logic Stage

$134.98

 

 

Library Books

$0.00

 

 

Python Crash Course

$22.99

 

 

2:00

Literature

3h

1h

1h

1h

 

 

Get from Library

$0.00

 

 

2:00

Art

1h

 

 

 

 

1h

The Collins Big Book of Art

$39.95

Drawing on the Right Brain

$33.20

All

 

7h

7h

7h

7h

7h

 

$761.23

 

 

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I should also include that my son has significant challenges as well. I’m 95% certain he has dysgraphia but haven’t been able to find a local place to test for it (not even the local private Orton-Gillingham school knows where we could go). I will ask about this (and more) in the special challenges forum. 

Also: he’s autistic, has severe Tourette’s (without coprolalia), has a high IQ, and has recurring bouts of severe psychosis. If the sensory world overwhelms him too much, he has access to an AAC to use as needed and can almost always soldier on with studies when accommodated this way for an hour or so. His Tourette’s affects his ability to listen to live lectures and watch videos with others as he can’t reliably keep his eyes open, especially the more he thinks about it. He is medicated for his psychosis and sees a therapist for general life skills/anxiety/etc., but we still need to plan on an average of 2 breaks from reality per month. We have tools to handle this when it happens, but it can definitely mean we need to suddenly shift gears to focus on mental health for anywhere between an afternoon to a week at a time. He’s highly efficient at other times, so curriculum that can be well adapted to alternating bursts of manic energy, periods of more consistent ability, and periods with trouble thinking are ideal. (Which has often meant having more than one choice to satisfy a subject, utilizing side sources to reinforce basics or aid in memory in the lower ability moments.) These questions aren’t typically answered in FAQ sections...

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My oldest just finished Latin Alive 2 this year. Latin Alive took a lot of time for us--probably 45 minutes to an hour five days a week and we didn't really use the videos. While he was doing Latin Alive I dropped Vocab from Classical Roots. It was just too much to do both.  Latin Alive 1 is a worth one high school credit.

I can't speak to trying to do Japanese along with that--I guess it depends on how much time you spend on that. 

Art of Argument is 0.5 high school credit. The Argument Builder is more of a writing course and it is 0.5 credit.  So keep that in mind. My 8th grader did Art of Argument over a full year.

Grammar for the Well Trained Mind can take a lot of time too--be sure you follow their guidance on the site about how to use it.  We got through the full 1st book in about a year and a half--this guidance wasn't out then, but I would have followed it if we had.  https://welltrainedmind.com/wp-content/uploads/Recommendations-for-using-GFTWTM-with-Your-Student.pdf?v=7516fd43adaa

I don't see composition on your list, other than Argument Builder.

 

Edited by cintinative
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1 hour ago, Cosmic Ripple said:

...I’m not a new homeschooler, but we *are* transitioning into classical homeschooling next year. 
I’m unsure about many of my picks because I have not used them before...


Classical materials tend to be pretty structured and formal. I do think you can use them as "open and go" or set aside when dealing with health/life issues, but the formal structure is sometimes not a good fit for some students. I've not used most of the materials you mention, but I'm sure others will be able to comment on how those materials have worked/not worked for them.

It helps me to see things better by slightly reorganizing your weekly schedule into a list of subjects & materials:

English/Language Arts
   - Writing (Composition) 
= ??
   - Literature = get from library
   - Grammar = WTM; Grammar Guidebook; Diagramming Dictionary
   - Vocabulary = Vocab From Classical Roots
Math = AoPS
Science = Chemistry for Logic Stage; library books
History = SOTW 3 & 4
Foreign Language
   - Latin = Latin Alive
   - Japanese = Duolingo
Fine Arts
   - Art = Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain
   - Art Appreciation = Collins Big Book of Art
   - Music Appreciation = Intro to Orchestra
   - Music = guitar
Electives
   - Logic = Art of Argument; Brainteasers; Argument Builder; Critical Thinking Co. Demos
   - Computer Programming = Python Crash Course
   - Personal Finance/Financial Literacy = Moneywise for Kids

Extracurriculars:
   - library (1x/week)
   - co-op (1x/week)


Based on this, overall, you look good to me. My only observations:

- Writing (Composition) = I see nothing listed for writing. JMO, but 8th grade is an essential year to be solidifying writing foundations and possibly, if ready, moving into beginning essay writing, reader responses, and research papers with citations.

- Literature = 7th/8th grade is a prime time for moving into more formal or deeper reading/discussion, learning about literary devices and how they are at work in the literature, and other literature topics. A literature program, or meaty individual lit. guides to go with your individual titles can be of great help. Also, this is a good time to begin exposure to a wide variety of types of works, if you haven't done this yet -- poetry, short stories, plays, novellas, novels, essays. Also, both solid beginning classics with older language and sentence structure, works in translation, as well as Young Adult books with lots to discuss are all excellent at this age. I would look at some middle school Literature lists for ideas, rather than just random library selections, or solely matching up historical fiction to go with your History. JMO! 😉 

- Grammar = that sounds like a lot; he is really behind in Grammar understanding?? usually at 8th grade, students are moving into a final wrap-up of overall Grammar instruction, as in high school, Grammar is put into actual use in Writing and Foreign Language...

History = doing just outlining and timelines to go with SOTW sounds a bit dull, but if that is what works well for this student, go for it; perhaps if there is a topic of high interest along the way, explore that with reading/researching, and a possible short paper? Would a hands-on project be of interest at all?

Science = similarly -- would hands-on be do-able, and would it hand interest, or just be too much; TOPS Analysis and Solutions (be sure to also get the supply kits!!) are terrific at this age to flesh out chemistry with beginning lab work
 

1 hour ago, Cosmic Ripple said:

... Specific to us: my son struggles with handwriting...


If his challenges allow, have him learn touch typing this year, and as much as possible have him type his work rather than handwrite -- all Writing assignments, History outlining, Science lab reports, etc. For my DS#2 who had handwriting struggles (not dysgraphia, but just difficulty in forming letters -- almost like each letter was a symbol that had to be thought carefully about to be reproduced, rather than an automatic action the way it is for most people) -- so typing was a huge help for him.

Also, possibly consider 5 minutes a day doing Callirobics (printing help, or, cursive help) to help strength fine motor skills and letter formation for when he does have to handwrite out things. That seemed to help our DS, once I found that and we got rolling with it, along about 9th/10th grade. Dianne Craft's ideas, such as the writing 8s exercise and other cross-lateral exercises seemed to help a bit, too, by increasing brain hemisphere connections.

As far as actual Writing/Composition -- all through school and into high school, I helped walk DS#2 through the Writing process to help with brainstorming and organizing, and would scribe his thoughts for him into a key word outline that he could then rough draft write (type) his initial papers; then back to working together for revision, he went away to fix what was discussed (made easier, since it was a saved word processing document and revisions were typed), then back together for proof-editing, and then away to do the final fixes (again, easy to fix the saved word processing document and fix by typing rather than handwriting).

 

1 hour ago, Cosmic Ripple said:

-He works very quickly and efficiently.


Good for him! That will carry him a long ways, whatever curricula you use.
 

58 minutes ago, Cosmic Ripple said:

I should also include that my son has significant challenges as well... We have tools to handle this when it happens, but it can definitely mean we need to suddenly shift gears...  so curriculum that can be well adapted to alternating bursts...


I am so sorry for the additional challenges. It sounds like you have a very good feel for how to schedule and what works/doesn't work. I tried to keep my suggestions very broad, so you can plug in resources that are a good fit for your specific needs.
 

BEST of luck with your new curricula choices and with 8th grade! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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31 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Latin Alive took a lot of time for us--probably 45 minutes to an hour five days a week and we didn't really use the videos. While he was doing Latin Alive I dropped Vocab from Classical Roots. It was just too much to do both.  Latin Alive 1 is a worth one high school credit.

Art of Argument is 0.5 high school credit. The Argument Builder is more of a writing course and it is 0.5 credit.  So keep that in mind. My 8th grader did Art of Argument over a full year.


I hadn’t planned to count high school credits until he is in his 9th grade year. Is there a reason you include this information that I’m not really understanding?

Thank you very much for the link! 

I had planned to have him write during his Literature, History, and Science times. But, I honestly do not know what I’m doing here...

 

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1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

- Writing (Composition) = I see nothing listed for writing. JMO, but 8th grade is an essential year to be solidifying writing foundations and possibly moving into beginning essay writing, reader responses, and research papers with citations.

- Literature = 7th/8th grade is a prime time for moving into more formal or deeper reading/discussion, learning about literary devices and how they are at work in the literature, and other literature topics. A literature program, or meaty individual lit. guides to go with your individual titles can be of great help. Also, this is a good time to begin exposure to a wide variety of types of works, if you haven't done this yet -- poetry, short stories, plays, novellas, novels, essays. Also, both solid beginning classics with older language and sentence structure, works in translation, as well as Young Adult books with lots to discuss are all excellent at this age. I would look at some middle school Literature lists for ideas, rather than just random library selections, or solely matching up historical fiction to go with your History. JMO! 😉 

- Grammar = that sounds like a lot; he is really behind in Grammar understanding?? usually at 8th grade, students are moving into a final wrap-up of overall Grammar instruction, as in high school, Grammar is put into actual use in Writing and Foreign Language...

History = doing just outlining and timelines to go with SOTW sounds a bit dull, but if that is what works well for this student, go for it; perhaps if there is a topic of high interest along the way, explore that with reading/researching, and a possible short paper? Would a hands-on project be of interest at all?

Science = similarly -- would hands-on be do-able, and would it hand interest, or just be too much; TOPS Analysis and Solutions (be sure to also get the supply kits!!) are terrific at this age to flesh out chemistry with beginning lab work
 


If his challenges allow, have him learn touch typing this year, and as much as possible have him type his work rather than handwrite -- all Writing assignments, History outlining, Science lab reports, etc.

Also, possibly consider 5 minutes a day doing Callirobics to help strength fine motor skills and letter formation for when he does have to handwrite out things.
 


Thank you SO MUCH!

Writing (Composition): I had planned to have him write essays and papers within his Literature, History, and Science times. I was planning on using an old college writing text of mine to guide him (as a reference). We have previously tried IEW, but couldn’t get into it and I gave it away. It is certainly useful to see others pointing out this hole for me to work on investigating further. What do you think of this plan? 
 

Literature: I am still finalizing the list, but there will be a list. 😉 My starting place is the Literature list for 8th Grade from The Well-Trained Mind. I wrote out what I did above primarily to speak to my husband about cost. But, I’d love to hear thoughts on that specific list.

Like I tell my son now, I don’t keep him from reading what he wants in his spare time (well, within reason). But, I imagine we will continue to have occasional free-choice reading days here and there. He is particularly interested in reading about LGBTQ+ history (also: he isn’t straight, which can be problematic in forming closer friendships as he gets older within the homeschooling community in the Deep South).

Grammar: I don’t think he’s behind in grammar. I scheduled that amount of time based off recommendations from WTM. Does it seem like too much? Another poster above reported that this program took them more time than I have planned. However, we actually have used this in the past (I gave it away so now need to repurchase it). We didn’t finish it previously (in 5th grade) and I don’t recall how far we got or how much time it took. I really dislike the disjointed nature of BookShark language we are currently using and longed to go back to where we were. Perhaps extra time gained in grammar could be devoted to writing? I do recall thinking that we might not want the workbook at all, but I can’t remember enough about why I thought that. 

History: A hands-on project here and there is in the scope of what I had imagined for the year. Generally speaking, he is required to work on the subject he is scheduled for during the time we allot for it (which I’m not overly strict about, but we both benefit from some expected guidelines). So, when he is finished with the new “big picture input”, further exploration is encouraged. For years, I tried to plan these out, but my stack of unused science kits, lap books (I don’t know what I was thinking there...this is NOT a lap book kid), and activity manuals could tell you that that was a fool’s errand. 😂 He enjoys projects, but only when he discovers or creates them.

I had also planned for him to write essays and papers within history as well. This week, he’s wrapping up a research paper on Galileo.

Science: I actually had some TOPS kits picked out and deleted them when I remembered I should wait on those, so it’s funny you mention them. The Chemistry for the Logic Stage I picked out does come with a kit, but I’m unsure about this pick altogether. I’ve never really found science we like (that we can afford, at least). I set up meetings with two different physicists for him to interview when he was much younger (as he aspired to become a quantum physicist at the time) and he had some one-on-one Skype lessons from a university professor once. These have been the most beneficial science learning opportunities for him so far. But, he really needs to advance more in math. I was thinking his biology and chemistry knowledge probably lagged behind his other knowledge and we already own lots of reference books for biology. (He also hates Biology.) I’m most unsure about Science.

That Python book may be too easy for him (I haven’t checked with him yet) as he does learn it in his spare time. He showed me some basics of using variables in Python to make a very simple role playing game yesterday. I was just hoping for some kind of guide for his learning rather than his random acquiring of knowledge he’s doing with it now. 
 

I haven’t heard of touch typing or callirobics, so I will definitely check those out!

 

Thanks again!

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On 4/25/2020 at 7:02 PM, Cosmic Ripple said:

Writing (Composition): I had planned to have him write essays and papers within his Literature, History, and Science times. I was planning on using an old college writing text of mine to guide him (as a reference). We have previously tried IEW, but couldn’t get into it...

Literature: I am still finalizing the list... My starting place is the Literature list for 8th Grade from The Well-Trained Mind...

Grammar: I don’t think he’s behind in grammar. I scheduled that amount of time based off recommendations from WTM. Does it seem like too much? Another poster above reported that this program took them more time than I have planned. However, we actually have used this in the past (I gave it away so now need to repurchase it). We didn’t finish it previously (in 5th grade) and I don’t recall how far we got or how much time it took... Perhaps extra time gained in grammar could be devoted to writing? ...

History: A hands-on project here and there is in the scope of what I had imagined for the year. Generally speaking, he is required to work on the subject he is scheduled for during the time we allot for it... when he is finished with the new “big picture input”, further exploration is encouraged... He enjoys projects, but only when he discovers or creates them.I had also planned for him to write essays and papers within history as well...

Science: I actually had some TOPS kits picked out and deleted them... The Chemistry for the Logic Stage I picked out does come with a kit, but I’m unsure about this pick altogether. I’ve never really found science we like (that we can afford, at least)... I’m most unsure about Science.

...That Python book may be too easy for him...

...I haven’t heard of touch typing...



re: using old college text for Writing
Well, that might work... I don't know your DS's level of writing or your comfort level in teaching writing, to be able to say whether or not that would be a good fit. My initial reaction is that it would be tough to do. There is a huge gap between the average 7th grader writer and average college writer. Middle schoolers usually need a lot of specific instruction and mentoring and practice on the steps that go into writing essays and research papers. So they need to work on shorter assignments to practice all the "parts" needed, and do so with a lot of specific tutoring with guided questions.

 And middle schoolers are just at the beginning of developing the logic and abstract thinking portions of the brain that are needed for developing a position and building an argument of support for it -- because *critical thinking* is really what's at the heart of essay writing, literary analysis papers, persuasive/argumentative papers, and research papers. Having a writing program or some resources geared at the middle school or early high school level would likely have helpful instruction info for your DS, but also ideas for YOU for teaching/mentoring your DS in writing, and esp. for you in commenting on/grading his writing.

Since you're making the move to more classical materials, you might look at another WTM product -- Writing with Skill. There are 3 levels; I'd recommend starting with level 1. From everything I'm seeing on these boards from people using WWS, they are saying that while level 1 says a student as young as grade 5 can use it, that the reality for most people has been that it is much better to start WWS1 in grade 7 or 8, when the student has had time for some of those critical thinking areas of the brain to develop. See this recent thread on "Writing With Skill for 8th grade". Also, for other writing program ideas, check out this recent thread: "Writing curriculum guidance for middle schooler"

"Writing across the curriculum" as you are planning for the specific assignments is great -- I would just caution about not over scheduling. I have DEFINITELY found that "less is more" when it comes to writing, esp. if that "less" means taking more time to fully do the entire writing process (brainstorm, organize, rough draft write, revise, proof-edit), with lots of mentoring from the adult. Especially if you have semi-regular unexpected breaks due to health/mental health. Also, you DON'T want to kill the love of reading/literature and/or history by having to write about absolutely everything, or be writing multi-page assignments for the length of every assignment. That's another reason to be careful if using a college text for your Writing -- the expectations for  how much "output" a college student can reasonably manage is much higher than what a just-starting-to-move-into-more-formal-thinking-writing 7th grader can manage. 😉 

re: Literature
I don't have a copy of the WTM anymore, but was able to see what I think are the 7th & 8th grade lists from the "look inside" option at Amazon. Yes, those works seem like they are do-able for most 8th graders. I would encourage you to consider using some guides and resources to give you additional background info on author/times, info on literature topics, plus questions to help kickstart discussion. A few quick ideas:

- Art of Poetry
gr. 7-12; Christian, but it doesn't look like it beats you over the head with it; lovely guide that covers a number of the poets listed for grades 7-8 in the WTM lists I'd suggest spreading it out over 2-3 years, and just do a unit "bite" here and there in between your longer works.

- Figuratively Speaking
secular; easy to do this aloud together, learning a literary device per week, and then you can look for the devices in the literature, and it gives you additional things to discuss in the work -- also, you might consider doing some of the poems and short stories suggesting in this thread: "Figuratively Speaking paired with short stories"

- FREE secular literature guides to go with individual works:
   * Glencoe Literature Library guides (middle/high school)
   * Penguin teacher guides (high school/college)
   * Bibliomania guides (high school/college)
   * Sparknotes No Fear Shakespeare -- side by side, full text original/translation

re: Grammar and scheduling
Remember: SWB herself says that each family needs to look at her times for each subject as a very loose suggestion, and adjust for their particular needs and goals. 😄 I have no experience with any of the materials you're using for Grammar, so I'm no help there. I'll just add that from teaching Writing & Lit classes to gr. 7-12 homeschooling students, that Grammar and Writing are closely linked -- a lot of students struggle with Grammar topics such as: complete sentences (fragments, run-ons, awkward/incorrect sentence structure); punctuation use; subject/verb agreement, verb tense, and other verb usage issues; etc. So whatever Grammar you do, I'd suggest that it work towards helping with Writing, and learning a Foreign language. Since your DS has been learning Latin, there is a lot of overlap in learning Grammar there, so you may not need more than light review or a final "wind-up" this year on Grammar. It really depends on your particular student. 😉 

re: History and Science
Sounds good. If his challenges allow for it, perhaps the occasional feature film set in the time period? Or a history or science documentary (can stop/start as often as needed). Just thinking that some variety is nice, and that feature films set in the time of the history period can really help bring alive the people and events of the period being studied... Anything you do with Science will be a plus. That is super-cool that you were able to put DS in contact with physics professors!

re: Python
There are also some "learn Python for free websites, if using websites works with his challenges. Perhaps those might help flesh out the book??
- Learn Python.org
- Code Academy

re: touch typing
Sorry, yes that is just the old phrase for being able to type without having to "hunt-and-peck" or look down at the keyboard to type -- knowing how to type without having to look while typing really speeds up the writing process for students. 😉 

Edited by Lori D.
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