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Customer at Target today, salty over mask law


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I went to Target today, specifically because I got word they had hand sanitizer, which I have been very much in need of for dh to have in his work truck. So I ventured out. Masks/facial covering is now the law here inside buildings where the public gathers. So, sure enough, almost everybody had *something* to suffice as a face covering, whether or not it was a mask. 

One guy stood out, though, because first of all, he wasn’t wearing one and second of all, he obliviously jumped the line in front of me (big space there due to 6’ separation). Numerous people alerted him that he butted in and he apologized and moved behind me. But then, an employee confronted him about no mask. He argued with them asking, “Why must I put up with this Tie-ranny?” (He kept pronouncing “tyranny” that way.) Ultimately, a manager capitulated and told him to come check out over in this aisle, but not to come back without a mask in future. 

I wonder how many more displays of rebellion we’ll be seeing. All I could think at the moment was the man has an awfully low threshold for what tyranny is. 😏

I was so distracted by the kerfuffle that I left one of my shopping bags by accident - the one with my hard-won hand sanitizer in it. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I did not realize it until I was all the way home (this was not a store I usually go to; I only went bc of the sanitizer); i had to drive back to get my bag. 

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Oh thank goodness they were able to save your back with hand sanitizer so you could get it.  I have heard of stores just putting that stuff back on the shelf, so I am glad you were able to get it!

I think the situation you describe could have been over anything.  Today it's a mask, but really, a person like that would have pitched a fit about anything.  If the store was out of TP, or someone looked at him funny, etc etc.  

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I find myself far more sympathetic right now that in my normal life. Who knows what else was/is going on in his life. This may be the tipping point. I have a personal friend whose depression has returned full force. Plenty of people are struggling.

Massive restrictions have massive repercussions.

 

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I was able to score a bottle at Target yesterday too. And the thing with the masks... right now we aren't mandated to wear them in public buildings but the workers are. I've seen a number of them barely abiding by the spirit of the mandate by just covering their mouths or, in several cases, wearing it under their chins. At least no body was stating it was tyranny so that's good. LOL

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He should wear the mask BUT I do have empathy for people who are struggling with all of this.  This is hard and while he's objectively wrong about the definition of tyranny, who knows what got him to the point of this being his last straw.  

My husband randomly found hand sanitizer at the QFC (local chain now owned by Kroger)

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14 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

He should wear the mask BUT I do have empathy for people who are struggling with all of this.  This is hard and while he's objectively wrong about the definition of tyranny, who knows what got him to the point of this being his last straw.  

My husband randomly found hand sanitizer at the QFC (local chain now owned by Kroger)

Yeah, I know. He was wearing the sort of jacket with a neck gaiter collar and I  feebly suggested to him he could pull it over his mouth for just the next few minutes. He didn’t seem to find that suggestion helpful though. 

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1 minute ago, Quill said:

Yeah, I know. He was wearing the sort of jacket with a neck gaiter collar and I  feebly suggested to him he could pull it over his mouth for just the next few minutes. He didn’t seem to find that suggestion helpful though. 

 

It's been over a month since I have been in a grocery store but the last time I was, I did have to turn around and tell some dude to back off.  I could feel his breath on my hair which is TOO CLOSE even pre-Covid.  Some people are just beyond reason!  

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I had to briefly go in two grocery stores today.  I had a mask.   All workers and probably 75% of customers did.  I just realized one of those stores advertised that all customers must wear masks....not all were though.  I ran across three people chatting like nothing is going on...two of them had no mask on.  I had to ask them to move so I could pass.  

Edited by Scarlett
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I am glad you found hand sanitizer. If you run out again, and can't find any, just have him put some soap and a bottle of water in the vehicle. 

I have no idea if stores around here have any signs about masks. I haven't been anywhere in...a long time. DH has been running all the errands.

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30 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

The last time I was in a store, a couple of weeks ago, all masked up, there was a woman having a chat with her bestie while she shopped - literally stopping in aisles to continue her chat. I was just mind-boggled that while everyone else was trying to get in and out as safely and as efficiently as possible, this lady was having a social time!

People are weird. 

I like staying away from them, honestly.

I spent so much time that shopping trip waiting for people to move, so that I could also move, but still be within adequate distance of them...sometimes it would take them literal minutes to realise that standing staring at the empty pasta shelves blocking the aisle wasn't good shopping etiquette.

 

This is life in Texas. Going to the grocery has always been social time.  They bring the whoooooole family: mom, dad, 5 kids, meemaw, Uncle Lou, and great aunt Betty.  Everyone weighs in on the merits of 2% milk vs 1%. Creamy or crunchy peanut butter? Whole wheat or white bread?  1 ply or 2? Who can possibly choose!  Let's stay here all day, block the aisles, and contemplate how different our lives would be with each dizzying permutation! 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

This is life in Texas. Going to the grocery has always been social time.  They bring the whoooooole family: mom, dad, 5 kids, meemaw, Uncle Lou, and great aunt Betty.  Everyone weighs in on the merits of 2% milk vs 1%. Creamy or crunchy peanut butter? Whole wheat or white bread?  1 ply or 2? Who can possibly choose!  Let's stay here all day, block the aisles, and contemplate how different our lives would be with each dizzying permutation! 

 

 

😂😂😂 Your phrasing could not be better! 

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1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

 

This is life in Texas. Going to the grocery has always been social time.  They bring the whoooooole family: mom, dad, 5 kids, meemaw, Uncle Lou, and great aunt Betty.  Everyone weighs in on the merits of 2% milk vs 1%. Creamy or crunchy peanut butter? Whole wheat or white bread?  1 ply or 2? Who can possibly choose!  Let's stay here all day, block the aisles, and contemplate how different our lives would be with each dizzying permutation! 

 

 

🤣

I feel like you have been grocery shopping with my every week, even before the whole pandemic thing.  Except I don't live in Texas lol.  

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3 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I think the situation you describe could have been over anything.  Today it's a mask, but really, a person like that would have pitched a fit about anything.  If the store was out of TP, or someone looked at him funny, etc etc.  

Yes. He actually sounds like the kind of guy who will not use a chip card, because "they" want you to get so used to them that you don't object to getting a chip yourself, aka the mark of the beast . . . 

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2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

This is life in Texas. Going to the grocery has always been social time. 

It's social time in Louisiana, too, but with other shoppers as opposed to bringing a social group with you. Pre-covid, an out of town visitor was slack-jawed and slightly hysterical with laughter at the number of people I hugged, talked to, and exchanged greetings with on a simple grocery run. Apparently, obtaining sustenance in his state does not require telling a dozen people how ya mama and dem are doing. 

Edited by katilac
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I saw a study that compared health care workers who wore medical masks, cotton masks and no masks. Those that were cotton masks were the most likely to become infected. (I think it was the flu they were studying). 

I think that it's ridiculous that they are requiring masks, and that ineffective homemade masks are considered acceptable even when they are, at best, ineffective. 

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3 hours ago, Quill said:

Yeah, I know. He was wearing the sort of jacket with a neck gaiter collar and I  feebly suggested to him he could pull it over his mouth for just the next few minutes. He didn’t seem to find that suggestion helpful though. 

What the? The purpose of the mask it to limit the spread of disease. Pulling his collar over his mouth would do absolutely nothing except show that he was willing to conform to this new arbitrary rule. It was a ridiculous thing to ask of a stranger.

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4 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

I saw a study that compared health care workers who wore medical masks, cotton masks and no masks. Those that were cotton masks were the most likely to become infected. (I think it was the flu they were studying). 

I think that it's ridiculous that they are requiring masks, and that ineffective homemade masks are considered acceptable even when they are, at best, ineffective. 

The masks are not to protect the wearer, in this circumstance (Target shopping). They are to protect everyone else. The slogan is, "My mask protects you, your mask protects me". 

Medical masks worn to protect the wearer are totally different in purpose. 

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45 minutes ago, katilac said:

Yes. He actually sounds like the kind of guy who will not use a chip card, because "they" want you to get so used to them that you don't object to getting a chip yourself, aka the mark of the beast . . . 

 

No, he really doesn't. Just really condescending of you though and pretty out of character for you.

 

3 hours ago, Quill said:

Yeah, I know. He was wearing the sort of jacket with a neck gaiter collar and I  feebly suggested to him he could pull it over his mouth for just the next few minutes. He didn’t seem to find that suggestion helpful though. 

 

I think that was a sweet and kind suggestion for you to make, Quill. 🥰

People are pretty done where I live, and that's all I'm going to say about that.

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27 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

What the? The purpose of the mask it to limit the spread of disease. Pulling his collar over his mouth would do absolutely nothing except show that he was willing to conform to this new arbitrary rule. It was a ridiculous thing to ask of a stranger.

I was trying to offer a way he could not get kicked out of the store. Geez. And, btw, covering his nose and mouth with fabric would perform the same function as a mask. Not well, not with great comfort, but well enough to comply with the “arbitrary rule” that is the law. 

Ridiculous? Wow, thanks. 

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1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Reading your post I harken back to my days living in Calvert County. I mean, I know that's not where you are, but that's who your tie-ranny guy reminded me of.

Heh, yeah I have deep roots in Calvert County, going back to early 1700s or earlier. But I don’t know if that was why he pronounced it like that. 

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37 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

What the? The purpose of the mask it to limit the spread of disease. Pulling his collar over his mouth would do absolutely nothing except show that he was willing to conform to this new arbitrary rule. It was a ridiculous thing to ask of a stranger.

It would show he was willing to conform and it would also let everyone check out and go home, which I'm guessing was her motivation. 

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54 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 What area are you in? When I’m in TX I’m constantly amazed at how wide the aisles seem in HEB and Walmart, here they’re barely one cart wide, so just two people gabbing can block the entire aisle.

 

San Antonio area. They built a new HEB here, with aisles twice as wide as the old store. They also gave us carts that were much bigger than the old carts.  Now you get two giant carts blocking the aisle, one in each direction, and a family of 5 walking shoulder to shoulder as they peruse the cracker selections in Aisle 4. 

It's a teensy bit better now that HEB has kind of directed people through the store due to social distancing. Since we're all entering through one door, most people are heading in the same direction, but you still get bottlenecks because someone will lose the plot and decide to phone a friend while staring into the cheese case. 

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1 minute ago, StellaM said:

I get there are cultural differences, right?

I mean, in normal times if I meet a friend (not planned!) in the supermarket, I'll have a quick chat (if I haven't managed to avoid them by ducking down a different aisle first, lol)

But why do people not change when conditions change?

Who thinks 'the supermarket during a pandemic  is a good place to make my anti-communist for liberty! stand' or 'about now is a great time to call a friend!' ?

I'm still just shaking my head over tyranny guy. 

 

This is a riddle for the ages.  

We're such a dumb species sometimes. 

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5 hours ago, StellaM said:

I spent so much time that shopping trip waiting for people to move, so that I could also move, but still be within adequate distance of them...sometimes it would take them literal minutes to realise that standing staring at the empty pasta shelves blocking the aisle wasn't good shopping etiquette.

This was my frustration yesterday!  It was my first time out in two weeks, for a shopping trip, and multiple times I got stuck just standing in an aisle waiting and waiting and waiting for somebody to move who was obviously totally oblivious.  I guess normally I would probably say excuse me and move past, but that’s more awkward to do when you’re standing at a distance away from them and also wearing a mask that muffles your voice. Actually think I may be going overboard on my mask layers, because it’s really hard to understand me when I’m wearing mine.

2 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

I saw a study that compared health care workers who wore medical masks, cotton masks and no masks. Those that were cotton masks were the most likely to become infected. (I think it was the flu they were studying). 

I think that it's ridiculous that they are requiring masks, and that ineffective homemade masks are considered acceptable even when they are, at best, ineffective. 

i’m pretty sure I know the study you’re referring to, because I’ve heard other people bring the same points up and then link to it. I will have to try and track it down, but the thing is, that’s not actually what it showed. They were three conditions in the study: N95‘s, cotton masks, and usual practice. People are taking usual practice to be a control group, meaning no mask, but it turns out that most of the time, the usual practice group was wearing a surgical mask. So it was comparing N95‘s to medical grade surgical masks to cotton masks. I have not yet seen one that compares cotton masks to no masks. If I were a healthcare worker, I would want and 95 or better. As people out in public for brief outings, everyone in some kind of mask, cotton or otherwise, can only be helpful to protect others from people with contagious droplets leaving their mouth. I do think it’s quite different from a healthcare setting where they’re wearing it for a long period of time and it may be staying wet. 
 

I’ll go see if I can find the link to the study. I do wonder why so many people seem to want masks not to be effective. If we have a tool that can help reduce the spread and get people back to work and more things opening up, wouldn’t that be a good thing? It’s really not political at all, I promise you. 
 

Is this the study you meant? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275360639_A_cluster_randomised_trial_of_cloth_masks_compared_with_medical_masks_in_healthcare_workers
 

I found lots of other relevant studies about masks while I was looking for that one and I considered sharing, but more important Is this new article from the Atlantic today that explains the mask issue better than I’ve seen it explained anywhere else in the leg press. I wish I could be required reading (except I know people would rebel against that 😂). Please read if you’re still wondering why a mask would help if it’s not a fit tested N95 (and also note why you should be covering the valve up on your own and 95 if that’s what you’re using): The real reason to wear a mask

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My husband does all our shopping, including shopping for my brother and his kids.  Since my niece has T1D, he will occasionally text my brother about possible substitutions when something isn’t available.  For instance, to make sure that my niece will eat a certain brand of cauliflower crust pizza before he wastes my brother’s limited resources on it.  But he does so quickly and out of the way.  

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10 hours ago, ThisIsTheDay said:

I find myself far more sympathetic right now that in my normal life. Who knows what else was/is going on in his life. This may be the tipping point. I have a personal friend whose depression has returned full force. Plenty of people are struggling.

Massive restrictions have massive repercussions.

 

The first thought I had when I heard about the mass shooting in Canada by a a 50 something year old man is how no country seems to have a good handle on depressed people and most often depressed males who are much more likely to have anger as one of their depressive symptoms.

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9 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

 

It's been over a month since I have been in a grocery store but the last time I was, I did have to turn around and tell some dude to back off.  I could feel his breath on my hair which is TOO CLOSE even pre-Covid.  Some people are just beyond reason!  

I did that to a lady last week (and yes, I was wearing a mask- N95- that I had used once before a few years ago).  I also had to tell a lady at the coumadin clinic that it is one per elevator,. She was unmasked, impatient, and edging up close to the masked AA man behind me.  We were more than six feet apart but she was  trying to be closer.

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8 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

The last time I was in a store, a couple of weeks ago, all masked up, there was a woman having a chat with her bestie while she shopped - literally stopping in aisles to continue her chat. I was just mind-boggled that while everyone else was trying to get in and out as safely and as efficiently as possible, this lady was having a social time!

People are weird. 

I like staying away from them, honestly.

I spent so much time that shopping trip waiting for people to move, so that I could also move, but still be within adequate distance of them...sometimes it would take them literal minutes to realise that standing staring at the empty pasta shelves blocking the aisle wasn't good shopping etiquette.

That was my experience this week.  I had to pick up prescriptions at the grocery store pharmacy and took the opportunity to shop too while dh drove off to deliver lots of boxes to dd2 who sort of moved in early Feb but still had lots of boxes and stuff here.  Anyway, what I thought would be a short trip wasn't just because of this.  One unmasked woman spent about five minutes staring at the salad in a bag kits and never bought any.  I was stuck because there were unmasked idiots all around me blocking up the produce aisles.  One was blecking up two aisles doing nothing.  I have no problem with someone shopping but just staring or chatting (another few minutes lost there),  etc, really irks me.

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6 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

I saw a study that compared health care workers who wore medical masks, cotton masks and no masks. Those that were cotton masks were the most likely to become infected. (I think it was the flu they were studying). 

I think that it's ridiculous that they are requiring masks, and that ineffective homemade masks are considered acceptable even when they are, at best, ineffective. 

There are other studies that show that while many cotton masks are ineffective, there are at least two effective patterns and there are ways to make them effective.  I suspect the health care workers did not have the specific effective cotton masks with a material inside that prevents COVID virus from entering.  Also, remember you have to sterilize your mask  after use- depending on how you use it.  For health care workers, at least once a day.  One hour of sunshine exposure is effective in killing the virus.

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4 hours ago, kand said:

i’m pretty sure I know the study you’re referring to, because I’ve heard other people bring the same points up and then link to it. I will have to try and track it down, but the thing is, that’s not actually what it showed. They were three conditions in the study: N95‘s, cotton masks, and usual practice. People are taking usual practice to be a control group, meaning no mask, but it turns out that most of the time, the usual practice group was wearing a surgical mask. So it was comparing N95‘s to medical grade surgical masks to cotton masks. I have not yet seen one that compares cotton masks to no masks. If I were a healthcare worker, I would want and 95 or better. As people out in public for brief outings, everyone in some kind of mask, cotton or otherwise, can only be helpful to protect others from people with contagious droplets leaving their mouth. I do think it’s quite different from a healthcare setting where they’re wearing it for a long period of time and it may be staying wet. 
Is this the study you meant? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275360639_A_cluster_randomised_trial_of_cloth_masks_compared_with_medical_masks_in_healthcare_workers

I read the full study and not only were the "control group" also wearing masks, MOST of them were using medical masks, others were using cloth masks, and some were using both! How is that a "control" group??? Is anyone surprised that the results for the group wearing a mix of cloth and medical masks were intermediate between the cloth mask results and the medical mask results? Duh. Of course medical masks provide greater protection for the wearer than cloth masks, especially when the wearer is a medical provider working directly with patients with respiratory viruses.

That is a totally different issue than whether wearing cloth masks protects other people. The excellent Atlantic article you linked (below), provides a further link to this study in the New England Journal of Medicine showing that a cloth over the mouth (in this case a damp washcloth) vastly reduced the number of droplets spread while the wearer was speaking. It absolutely makes sense for people to be wearing masks in public.

4 hours ago, kand said:

I found lots of other relevant studies about masks while I was looking for that one and I considered sharing, but more important Is this new article from the Atlantic today that explains the mask issue better than I’ve seen it explained anywhere else in the leg press. I wish I could be required reading (except I know people would rebel against that 😂). Please read if you’re still wondering why a mask would help if it’s not a fit tested N95 (and also note why you should be covering the valve up on your own and 95 if that’s what you’re using): The real reason to wear a mask

 

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Just now, TravelingChris said:

There are other studies that show that while many cotton masks are ineffective, there are at least two effective patterns and there are ways to make them effective.  I suspect the health care workers did not have the specific effective cotton masks with a material inside that prevents COVID virus from entering.  Also, remember you have to sterilize your mask  after use- depending on how you use it.  For health care workers, at least once a day.  One hour of sunshine exposure is effective in killing the virus.

You are correct — the cloth masks they used were simple 2-layer cloth masks. The study was done in Vietnam, and all HCWs in the study were either given 2 new medical masks every day for 4 weeks or given a total of 5 cloth masks to use for the entire 4 week period, with instructions to wash them nightly. 96% of the cloth mask users washed them by hand either all of the time (80%) or some of the time (16%), while 4% used the hospital laundry, which would presumably be more effective. 

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6 hours ago, kand said:

This was my frustration yesterday!  It was my first time out in two weeks, for a shopping trip, and multiple times I got stuck just standing in an aisle waiting and waiting and waiting for somebody to move who was obviously totally oblivious.  I guess normally I would probably say excuse me and move past, but that’s more awkward to do when you’re standing at a distance away from them and also wearing a mask that muffles your voice. Actually think I may be going overboard on my mask layers, because it’s really hard to understand me when I’m wearing mine.

i’m pretty sure I know the study you’re referring to, because I’ve heard other people bring the same points up and then link to it. I will have to try and track it down, but the thing is, that’s not actually what it showed. They were three conditions in the study: N95‘s, cotton masks, and usual practice. People are taking usual practice to be a control group, meaning no mask, but it turns out that most of the time, the usual practice group was wearing a surgical mask. So it was comparing N95‘s to medical grade surgical masks to cotton masks. I have not yet seen one that compares cotton masks to no masks. If I were a healthcare worker, I would want and 95 or better. As people out in public for brief outings, everyone in some kind of mask, cotton or otherwise, can only be helpful to protect others from people with contagious droplets leaving their mouth. I do think it’s quite different from a healthcare setting where they’re wearing it for a long period of time and it may be staying wet. 
 

I’ll go see if I can find the link to the study. I do wonder why so many people seem to want masks not to be effective. If we have a tool that can help reduce the spread and get people back to work and more things opening up, wouldn’t that be a good thing? It’s really not political at all, I promise you. 
 

Is this the study you meant? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275360639_A_cluster_randomised_trial_of_cloth_masks_compared_with_medical_masks_in_healthcare_workers
 

I found lots of other relevant studies about masks while I was looking for that one and I considered sharing, but more important Is this new article from the Atlantic today that explains the mask issue better than I’ve seen it explained anywhere else in the leg press. I wish I could be required reading (except I know people would rebel against that 😂). Please read if you’re still wondering why a mask would help if it’s not a fit tested N95 (and also note why you should be covering the valve up on your own and 95 if that’s what you’re using): The real reason to wear a mask

What a terrific article; thanks so much for linking it. 

This has been my general belief; that community compliance will help the overall transmission rate. (I do also use my own mask to keep from transferring virus to my face. I am also wearing a headband and sometimes a ponytail, too, in public, so I don’t have any hair tickling my face, which would cause me to put my hands on my face.) 

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14 hours ago, ThisIsTheDay said:

No, he really doesn't. Just really condescending of you though and pretty out of character for you.

To me, he really does 🤷‍♂️

It's been my experience that people who use words like tyranny and government whilst arguing with low-level Target employees do indeed go off on other tangents, easily and often. Those tangents don't always involve the mark of the beast, but it's a favorite. 

I'm fully in favor of citizens protesting tyranny and government overreach, just preferably not in the midst of crowded big box stores filled with people who just want to go home.

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I sent ds 22 to the store yesterday for some groceries. He said they had ropes up for customers to follow and they were keeping track of numbers. As it happened there weren't many in the store but you were still supposed to follow the theme park style rope line and wait for them to tell you to go in. There was an old guy, no mask, who just walked in. They tried to tell him to go back through the line and he mumbled something about not walking all the way back there, then just went in the store. Ds came home aggravated because he said this guy looked to be older and that they're doing this to protect him and others in his category. 

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I went to Walmart today. 90% of the people inside were wearing masks. Both employees and customers. It is a bit of a relief, though I'm so used to using facial expressions and now they are hidden. 

This kind of thing could happen anywhere though. Americans may use different words, but there's a lot of people that feel this way. Masks can be claustrophobic, oppressive, hot, difficult to breathe in, and if you are on your own and aren't creatively inclined or know anyone that sews, they can be scarce. I ordered masks through 2 different sites ages ago and still haven't gotten them. Lucky, I had some sanding masks and my nice MELScience safety glasses. 

 

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19 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

People are weird. 

I like staying away from them, honestly.

 

 

15 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

We're such a dumb species sometimes. 

Yes, we're a weird and often dumb species but rather than stay away I find us fascinating. I think in a different life I might have been an anthropologist. Or sociologist. Or both, with a major in one and a minor in the other. 😄

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45 minutes ago, Plum said:

I went to Walmart today. 90% of the people inside were wearing masks. Both employees and customers. It is a bit of a relief, though I'm so used to using facial expressions and now they are hidden. 

This kind of thing could happen anywhere though. Americans may use different words, but there's a lot of people that feel this way. Masks can be claustrophobic, oppressive, hot, difficult to breathe in, and if you are on your own and aren't creatively inclined or know anyone that sews, they can be scarce. I ordered masks through 2 different sites ages ago and still haven't gotten them. Lucky, I had some sanding masks and my nice MELScience safety glasses. 

 

I was thinking, in future, I’m going to bring along two masks that I made and offer them if this happens again. But I don’t think the actual issue is ever likely to be they simply could not obtain a mask. I have wondered what would have happened had I offered him a mask I had made. 

Given the odd or even funny ways I have seen some people complying, I can’t quite imagine any such thing as a person who can’t rig up *something* to suffice, at least for the letter of the law. I saw one woman with a decorative scarf literally just tied around her head. Many versions of “bank robber style” bandanas. The occasional tee shirt tied on. And people with something like a paint respirator. 

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15 hours ago, kand said:

i’m pretty sure I know the study you’re referring to, because I’ve heard other people bring the same points up and then link to it. I will have to try and track it down, but the thing is, that’s not actually what it showed. They were three conditions in the study: N95‘s, cotton masks, and usual practice. People are taking usual practice to be a control group, meaning no mask, but it turns out that most of the time, the usual practice group was wearing a surgical mask. So it was comparing N95‘s to medical grade surgical masks to cotton masks. I have not yet seen one that compares cotton masks to no masks. If I were a healthcare worker, I would want and 95 or better. As people out in public for brief outings, everyone in some kind of mask, cotton or otherwise, can only be helpful to protect others from people with contagious droplets leaving their mouth. I do think it’s quite different from a healthcare setting where they’re wearing it for a long period of time and it may be staying wet. 
 

I’ll go see if I can find the link to the study. I do wonder why so many people seem to want masks not to be effective. If we have a tool that can help reduce the spread and get people back to work and more things opening up, wouldn’t that be a good thing? It’s really not political at all, I promise you. 
 

Is this the study you meant? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275360639_A_cluster_randomised_trial_of_cloth_masks_compared_with_medical_masks_in_healthcare_workers

 

Yes, they didn't feel it was ethical to ask people not to wear masks.

In addition to your commentary, which I've also noted repeatedly to people who cite this study, this study was done on hospital workers. It's not at all clear to me that somebody who is spending half an hour in the grocery store once every two weeks needs the same level of protection as somebody who works in a hospital surrounded by sick people 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week.

Edit: I see now you said that. Well, it bears repeating anyway.

Edited by Tanaqui
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1 minute ago, Quill said:

I was thinking, in future, I’m going to bring along two masks that I made and offer them if this happens again. But I don’t think the actual issue is ever likely to be they simply could not obtain a mask. I have wondered what would have happened had I offered him a mask I had made. 

Given the odd or even funny ways I have seen some people complying, I can’t quite imagine any such thing as a person who can’t rig up *something* to suffice, at least for the letter of the law. I saw one woman with a decorative scarf literally just tied around her head. Many versions of “bank robber style” bandanas. The occasional tee shirt tied on. And people with something like a paint respirator. 

I saw an old guy with a headband. A skinny terrycloth headband that only covered his mouth. I don't think the guy in your OP would have been happy to take the mask. I worked enough retail in my life to know that some people feel it's ok to take their frustrations out on workers and everyone around them. No changing that. I saw an article the other day about that very thing. That everyone's anxiety is expressing itself at the store. I'll admit I was a little freaked the first time I went back to the store after a few weeks.

I do think there are people out there that would very much appreciate the gesture however. 

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Quill, I think that is kind of you to take an extra mask to offer someone, but... honestly, I think you are right, that the actual issues is not the availability of a mask. Why would they take it from you? If a person feels fine with with no mask/thinks masks are unnecessary, they are unlikely to accept one. 

And, the opposite, sort of, if I went to the store and suddenly realized that I needed a mask to go in, and was leaving (because I would leave, not cause a fuss) and someone offered me a mask, I wouldn't take it. I would thank them but I wouldn't put on a  mask that someone I didn't know offered me. 

So either people are clueless, and won't take the mask - and possibly take offense/go off on someone offering one, which I could imagine your Target guy doing, or people recognize the need for a mask, and thus would know it wasn't smart to accept one from a stranger and immediately put it on.

ETA: I can see where a person might take one if it was offered in a ziplock bag so they knew they could take it home and wash it before using. That is, if they truly had a need for one.

Edited by marbel
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@Plum  mentioned that masks could be claustrophobic or oppressively hot.   My daughter went with me to the store a few weeks ago and we wore masks.  After about 15min she said the mask made her feel like she's having an asthma attack.   She said the effort to breath through the mask (homemade) felt similar to when she's having an asthma attack.   It's going to be a struggle for her to go out in the public with a mask in the future especially for things like work (she's a school teacher). 

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