What would public and private schools look like next school year with SARS-COV-2?

[PeterPan]

9 minutes ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

I guess people do not want o think about this now.

I don't know. I doubt they want to hear prognostications in general, but I DO think people want to hear what their depts of ed are actually drafting at the state level. The public has to have input about that. Think about it. Is ANYONE at your state's dept of ed elected? What recourse do people have if they don't like how it goes down? 

People are thinking about summer and they'll be very engaged when the drafts/plans start to come out from states.

[Arcadia]

“Plastic partitions, temperature checks, and socially distanced classrooms: How countries are reopening schools following coronavirus closures

Here's a look at the six countries and provinces that have reopened schools so far” (Taiwan has the plastic shields, Japan students wear mask, photos in news link) https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-show-schools-reopening-around-the-world-coronavirus-2020-4

[Guest]

https://wreg.com/news/shelby-county-schools-details-potential-fall-school-plans/

 

This is what my local district is looking at. For a big, urban district where the push has been to provide more at school (after school and ESY programs, extracurriculars, food support, even some medical and dental in cooperation with organizations, etc) this is pretty telling. And without the schools, there will be a lot of people who cannot go to work, so the push to reopen combined with schools stating that they expect to be there, at best, part time, largely makes the former impractical. 

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd Palo Alto

https://abc7news.com/education/palo-alto-students-could-go-to-school-twice-a-week-next-year-if-new-model-is-approved/6181095/
"We're looking at 12-15 students in a classroom right now," says Superintendent Don Austin.

He says the district is looking at the possibility next year of having middle and high school students come to school two days a week and work from home the other three days.

"Students come for two days, the other half come for two days, and day five in our model would be teacher preparation day," Austin said.
...
Superintendent Austin says elementary school kids would not be included in his district's possible two-day 'at school' week.

"Our goal is to keep our elementary school students with us as much as physically possible."

But they're goals that could change depending on what happens state-wide with the virus.”

[vonfirmath]

34 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd Palo Alto

https://abc7news.com/education/palo-alto-students-could-go-to-school-twice-a-week-next-year-if-new-model-is-approved/6181095/
"We're looking at 12-15 students in a classroom right now," says Superintendent Don Austin.

He says the district is looking at the possibility next year of having middle and high school students come to school two days a week and work from home the other three days.

"Students come for two days, the other half come for two days, and day five in our model would be teacher preparation day," Austin said.
...
Superintendent Austin says elementary school kids would not be included in his district's possible two-day 'at school' week.

"Our goal is to keep our elementary school students with us as much as physically possible."

But they're goals that could change depending on what happens state-wide with the virus.”

 

This is realistic with jobs

Middle and high school students are more able to be at home without a parent than elementary kids.

Not ideal no -- but workable.

 

[Storygirl]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Well see what @Story girl thinks, but our state dept of ed is saying *masks* for all students and teachers. It just hit the papers, so I guess we'll see what the public outcry/fallout is from that. Masks aren't even mandated in our state, only suggested. So you have the shaping of an entire generation.

Our state has many publicly funded charter/cyber options, and those schools, even cyber, will often have all kinds of sports, get togethers, etc. You could see an exodus to charter schools with a physical presence if they are not required to wear masks. Are private schools being told their students must wear masks too? 

I think if ps students withdraw, the ps loses their funding for that student. Could get really interesting if this happens on a massive level. And I'm not sure how the dept of ed tells private schools what they have to do as private businesses when businesses in our state are choosing whether to require masks in their stores. Zero stores in our area require masks, and when I was at the store last night fully 70% of the people were not masked. So let's see how cool those 70% are with the ps system saying their *kids* have to wear masks all day long to go to school. Not a county by county decision, not based on data, not temporary depending on where things are then, just swoop the whole state. 

I read the whole draft late last night. I found it interesting that the ideas outlined so far have all been mentioned by WTM boardies, either in this thread or the others. The draft ends kind of abruptly and has a lot of "we need to think about this" comments woven in here and there, so I'm sure there will be changes before anything is finalized. It sounds to me like the state board of ed was not ready to release this to the public yet but was just working on it, but they had to release it when the media requested it. I'm glad to have an idea about what officials think that things might look like, but there is also going to be a lot of variation, school district to district, so it doesn't really answer questions I have about what things could look like for my kids.

I don't have a problem with masks being required, and my kids won't care, but I'm sure it will be an issue for some other people. DH is doing our shopping, and he says that 75% of people are masked in our stores. Our in-laws in another corner of the state say that 75% of people are masked in stores there. So I think the masking issue may be regional; some areas have more people that are masking, than others. So I don't have a sense about whether people will rebel against that edict or not. Public school parents may be more willing to go along than you think, because they are used to the schools setting rules that everyone must follow, even if families don't like it. We will see, I guess.

I do agree that masks can inhibit communication and are not ideal for that reason, but teachers have not been able to interact much with students at all for months, so being able to interact with masks may be better for some than remote learning.

I don't think flocks of people will leave the public school system over new requirements, but I'm sure there will be some. I know that my daughter's private school follows state guidelines, and many others will, as well, but there are some private schools that don't accept funding from the state and will perhaps have different rules. Private school sports teams still follow the state sports association rules, which will be aligned with whatever the department of ed mandates, so I doubt that there will be many sports at private schools, if they are not allowed at public schools. One of the things being considered in our state is to switch the fall and spring sports seasons, and private schools would have to make those kind of changes, too, I think. I don't predict that there will be a ton of variance in the way that sports are handled, so that shouldn't be a factor for school choice, but I could be wrong.

Much harder to implement than the mask issue is the need to recreate the entire school system to allow for social distancing. This is going to be a very complex and intricate thing to figure out. I have a friend who is the superintendent of a neighboring school district, and I know how stressed he has been. There is so much that has to be figured out, and as soon as he makes one decision, it has a domino effect on other things.

So, I'm not surprised at what was in the draft proposal. But there are more questions left open that are hard to answer.

Our school district does intend to have a parent panel to provide input as they create their new ways of doing things, so I'm sure they will hear lots of different opinions. In the end, the things that they decide will upset some people, no matter what, and I'm sure the school officials are bracing for that. There is no way to make everyone happy, so I'm sure their emphasis will be on the logistics needed to keep everyone as safe as possible and ensure that children still get an appropriate education.

The huge urban districts are going to have the hardest time figuring all of this out, I think.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Storygirl

[YaelAldrich]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:18 PM, MEmama said:

Right. I’m assuming this coming year will be primarily online, and that a high number of current seniors will defer a year or take a gap year, thus entering university as freshmen—along with the regular incoming class of freshmen—a year late. I can’t wrap my head around how any of that will work. The strain on dorms, first and second year classes, and so on will be overwhelmed. That concern radiates out to sports (or choose a student's extracurricular), internship opportunities etc. I’m finding the uncertainties overwhelming for years to come. 

Actually, my husband (a professor) said that the incoming freshman class will be composed of mainly the redshirted freshman plus a small number of the "real" freshman. The redshirted ones will "reserve" their spots in the following year and therefore taking spots away from the "real" freshmen.  THIS is the actual issue here.

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd Palo Alto

https://abc7news.com/education/palo-alto-students-could-go-to-school-twice-a-week-next-year-if-new-model-is-approved/6181095/
"We're looking at 12-15 students in a classroom right now," says Superintendent Don Austin.

He says the district is looking at the possibility next year of having middle and high school students come to school two days a week and work from home the other three days.

"Students come for two days, the other half come for two days, and day five in our model would be teacher preparation day," Austin said.
...
Superintendent Austin says elementary school kids would not be included in his district's possible two-day 'at school' week.

"Our goal is to keep our elementary school students with us as much as physically possible."

But they're goals that could change depending on what happens state-wide with the virus.”

This is one of the better ideas to come out of the PS system in california. They probably think that the need for daycare will be a nonissue for middle and high schoolers as they can be left unsupervised for 3 days at home... Keeping kids in groups that do not mix with other groups helps in contact tracing and isolation. 

I personally don't think that this plan would work considering how lawsuit-happy the parents in our high performing school districts are. Let us hope that the schools are able to stay open even though the big local employers deem it safer to work from home until 2021.

[ScoutTN]

My son's tiny private school would be all online, which is not bad as far as the actual school work is concerned and terrible as far as social and emotional health for a massively extroverted kid who is negatviely affected by lots of screen time. His school time online is not unreasonably long, but when all of his social life (church, Scouts, etc. ) is also online, the total is unhealthy.  

Edited May 14, 2020 by ScoutTN

[MEmama]

2 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

Actually, my husband (a professor) said that the incoming freshman class will be composed of mainly the redshirted freshman plus a small number of the "real" freshman. The redshirted ones will "reserve" their spots in the following year and therefore taking spots away from the "real" freshmen.  THIS is the actual issue here.

This is a huge fear.  What happens to this years rising seniors? Will the acceptance rates of universities go down from 16% to 8% because this years seniors choose to defer? My son (whose dream US school is the one your husband teaches at, iirc) is really anxious about this scenario. The schools he is interested in are competitive enough; surely they can’t just turn away the majority of the high school seniors of 2021? 
I'd really appreciate any insight you or your DH might have. 

[DawnM]

4 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

I read it last night and shared on Facebook. No one commented on Facebook, so I deleted it. I guess people do not want o think about this now. 

The point that schools only will do basic stuff is exactly what turned my son and me off. He goes to an expensive private school just for the community and the fun extra stuff. Now that the extras are gone, and it's back to screen and distance learning, there is no benefit for an outside school. 

 

I would agree.  My 16 year old still loves the social and interacting with his friends, so he will go, but it is also public school.

[DawnM]

We were going to see about preschool/daycare for my 2 year old for the Fall (he will be 3 a little after school starts), but he has a compromised immune system and some complications we don't fully know about yet, so DH is going to see if he can work from home 5 days per week instead of 3.   My oldest will help out too.

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m not sure I understand... what are red shirted freshman?  Who is attending? Maybe I’ve just been out of the public school loop too long to know the lingo 😒

Red shirting is a term commonly used for kindergarteners who enter school a year late. So if a kid who would typically begin K at 5 waits until age 6, they are considered redshirted. In this case, @YaelAldrichis using the term to describe this years seniors (class of 2020) who will defer until the following year to begin university. 
If this happens on a significant level, it will have massive, unrepairable effects on the senior class of 2021, affecting admissibility to university, competition for coops and internships, and so on. My son is class of 2021 (graduating next year), so this is our worst fear education-wise right now. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by MEmama

[prairiewindmomma]

My kid (graduating this year) is doing cc online.  Of his peer friends, I think most of them are going that route (state school or local school) online rather than taking a gap year and rather than traveling out of state for school.  None of them are happy about it, but none of them want to take a gap year without having quality gap year-like experiences.  No one is hiring, all internships have been canceled, this summer is kind of a wash.

My kid is going to work on learning new programming languages to see if he likes that since the hardware/circuitry stuff wasn't available this spring.  I get the sense that many other graduating seniors are trying to find productive ways to use their time as well.  A fair number of girls are working as nannies locally right now also since most families here are both employed in demanding jobs. 

I think there will be a larger number than normal of students who take a year off, but I don't think it will be as many as predicted currently.

-------------------

daycares and preschools are opening up here, but they are opening with fewer slots than before.  Given the shortage of available spots in normal times, it's worrying. On the other hand, the large local employers are signaling they have no plans to bring back their WFH employees anytime soon.  They are working on redesigning workspaces and acquiring supplies.  The supplies seem to be in shortage.

------------------------

Our local school district is sending really mixed messages.  On one hand, budget cutbacks have hit so hard that they are furloughing employees one day a week and they are making all kinds of cuts for next year.  On the other hand, they are sending all kinds of messages about how awful it is for kids to be home with their parents because apparently we can't feed them, we don't treat them well, and we have no ability to educate them. 🙄 I'm kinda 100% over that. Is there some degree of a problem? Yes, but I think it's a minority of families and I don't like being maligned.  

[Joker]

9 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Huh, so this is a big deal because there’s less admission spots at the schools you want?  Am I getting it? Fortunately there are a ton of schools and for most degree programs it matters rather less which school it is than general tier, at least in my family’s experience 🙂

It could be a big problem across the board if lots of incoming freshman defer this fall. Schools may just not have room to admit many new freshmen the following year. I know our state universities are already struggling with space and this won’t help. My own dd wants to defer since classes will probably be online and I’m wondering if colleges will change the rules for it since so many are expected.

[mathnerd]

8 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Huh, so this is a big deal because there’s less admission spots at the schools you want?  Am I getting it? Fortunately there are a ton of schools and for most degree programs it matters rather less which school it is than general tier, at least in my family’s experience 🙂

What if incoming college students everywhere don't want to pay 5 figure fees to stare at zoom all day long and decide to take a year off in most of the colleges? With the economy in a bad shape and uncertainty over a second wave of Covid in the Fall, how risky the dorm living situation with shared bathrooms is, it might happen (or not). That would mean that the college freshman class of 2021 will be overcrowded in a time where we are talking about reducing the number of students inside a classroom. I am sure that adcoms of universities are scrambling to address this scenario.

[Innisfree]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

our state dept of ed is saying *masks* for all students and teachers. It just hit the papers, so I guess we'll see what the public outcry/fallout is from that. Masks aren't even mandated in our state, only suggested. So you have the shaping of an entire generation.

 

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Sorry, but at what point do we call that trauma and abuse?

I think I must be missing something. 

Why are masks such a problem?

I mean, I do understand sensory issues, but those don't affect most students. And somehow that's not the vibe I'm getting about the concerns here.

What concerns me is the very real danger to everyone in the schools, teachers, staff, and students. The virus is the concern, not the masks; the masks help minimize the risks from the virus, so they're undoubtedly a nuisance, but to me, they're well worth the trouble.

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Moving high risk teachers (age 60+, pre-existing conditions) to other jobs within the system or through early retirement so kids wouldn't have to wear masks.

About 40% of the adult population is at high risk. Is this feasible? 

Asking someone to retire early isn't easy or cheap. My dh is in this category (young 60s, less than five years from retirement, preexisting conditions). We're not sure what his employment situation  will be, but if he had to retire now, unexpectedly, there would be all kinds of financial implications for us, from loss of health insurance to lower lifetime social security benefits. We still have two teens who need to get through college to independence. Are we, as a nation, willing to help teachers and staff make this sort of transition?

I suspect funding masks is cheaper than shifting many thousands of school employees away from exposure to kids. Many parents are capable of providing masks for their kids, just like they'll provide notebooks and pens.

3 hours ago, Plum said:

I haven’t given it much thought but one thing I would do is allow all students that want to continue with distance learning full time, be allowed to do so. Some are enjoying it and the parents are able to work from home. That eliminates a chunk of the school population right there. They could allow them to check in once a week and have a teacher on call for questions. Hopefully by then they will have a more well-planned curriculum for the kids. 

I like this idea.

My high schooler doesn't want to set foot in the school next year. I really don't want to be in the position of needing to force her to undertake a risk she doesn't want. She's working hard at home. There must be others feeling the same way. Letting them stay home, at least part time, would help everyone. 

[Ottakee]

The mask thing would be huge in the special education world.

First of all, 25% if my students are hearing impaired and use lip reading and facial expressions as part of their communication.

Students in the autism spectrum need to be able to see facial expressions if we are to work on those skills.

Then we have more severely impaired students (center based program) that have trouble breathing anyway.....trachs and vents.   And there are the students with severe sensory issues that struggle with normal clothing, socks, shoes, etc.....masks would not be an option for many of them.....plus elastic/ties are choking hazards (again these are severely impaired students).

Remote/at home learning just is not workable for students with special needs.

[Innisfree]

1 minute ago, Ottakee said:

The mask thing would be huge in the special education world.

First of all, 25% if my students are hearing impaired and use lip reading and facial expressions as part of their communication.

Students in the autism spectrum need to be able to see facial expressions if we are to work on those skills.

Then we have more severely impaired students (center based program) that have trouble breathing anyway.....trachs and vents.   And there are the students with severe sensory issues that struggle with normal clothing, socks, shoes, etc.....masks would not be an option for many of them.....plus elastic/ties are choking hazards (again these are severely impaired students).

Remote/at home learning just is not workable for students with special needs.

This all makes sense, thanks.

My remaining high schooler actually is on the spectrum, but she's probably closer to level 1 than level 2 now, and she doesn't get any help with social skills or facial expressions. She doesn't want to wear a mask, because, as she said, if the school is risky enough for masks to be needed, she doesn't want to be there at all. I can't argue. But that's really all beside the point here.

Do you think school without masks is feasible in the special education world? What are the best options there?

[Arcadia]

22 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I am sure that adcoms of universities are scrambling to address this scenario.

They are looking at how many international students decided to reject this fall and estimate drop of interest for next fall. Another impact is the loss of revenue from full paying students for public and private universities, as well as revenue lost from room & board. Varsity sports probably provided some revenue to the colleges too so that’s another revenue lost. 
 

Ironically, my kids who don’t like the compulsory stay in dormitories policy for freshmen would be happy to attend classes from home and skip the dorm requirements. 

[mathnerd]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

Ironically, my kids who don’t like the compulsory stay in dormitories policy for freshmen would be happy to attend classes from home and skip the dorm requirements. 

Maybe it is time for them to transfer to their favorite college ... 😉

[Arcadia]

My pharmacist could not hear me through my rather thin earloop mask yesterday so we communicated by cellphone typing. The questions are standard though (Name, date of birth, home address) so it’s easy to type answers beforehand.

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

Huh, so this is a big deal because there’s less admission spots at the schools you want?  Am I getting it? Fortunately there are a ton of schools and for most degree programs it matters rather less which school it is than general tier, at least in my family’s experience 🙂

It’s not just a problem for certain schools, though. It’s going to be devastating in ALL universities and it’s going to have a cumulative effect for years, perhaps decades. You’re too young, but for those of us who graduated into the recession, we still haven’t made up for lost income and never will. Not only will this upcoming generation have a recession to look forward to, if they can’t get into university right away a significant number never will go into higher education. That’s  not a failing, it’s a fact. And it will have profound effects on the economy as a whole.

[MEmama]

 

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

They are looking at how many international students decided to reject this fall and estimate drop of interest for next fall. Another impact is the loss of revenue from full paying students for public and private universities, as well as revenue lost from room & board. Varsity sports probably provided some revenue to the colleges too so that’s another revenue lost. 
 

I am hoping this will positively affect the number of spots available next year. I am not, however, looking forward to an increase in tuition as a result. 😳
Of course, there will be many American students who won’t be allowed to study overseas next year even though they have been admitted. I wonder how many will scramble to apply late to universities here instead. 

[QueenCat]

5 hours ago, Plum said:

I haven’t given it much thought but one thing I would do is allow all students that want to continue with distance learning full time, be allowed to do so. Some are enjoying it and the parents are able to work from home. That eliminates a chunk of the school population right there. They could allow them to check in once a week and have a teacher on call for questions. Hopefully by then they will have a more well-planned curriculum for the kids. 
Then I would decrease class sizes by going half day like they do with K. They could also have outdoor classes when weather permits. 
That’s all I have for now. I do hope this gives us a chance to make some positive changes and doesn’t become a haphazard disaster. 

They do half day kind. where you live? I don't know of too many places that still do that. 

[Ottakee]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

We did okay with the masks yesterday at the clinic, but it does make it a bit tougher to be seen/heard.  They’re considering just subbing in regular testing every few days instead of masks since some of the kiddos are terrified of them, but I was pleasantly surprised that Benny warmed up and wasn’t too nervous or seeming to have a ton of difficulty understand even the SLP with her mask on.

They did NOT require them of the kids because of all the reasons you mentioned, just parents.  One of the local hospitals IS requiring children to wear them with no exceptions and that’s not happening, parents are just canceling appointments instead.

Glad it worked for you.  My hearing impaired students that lip read would need everyone to have those clear front masks if we want optimal access.

I see some students being ok with the masks...but the severely impaired one, no.

[Ottakee]

1 hour ago, Innisfree said:

This all makes sense, thanks.

 

Do you think school without masks is feasible in the special education world? What are the best options there?

I don't know.  Remember, I work with the most severely impaired students at times.   Classes are already 6-8 students and buses usually have no more than 8-10 students on each bus.

These kiddos need hands on PT, speech, and OT that they were getting almost daily.

Maybe temp checks.....but not sure how that works with kids that wear hats and are sweaty on the bus but not a true fever.

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Well see what @Story girl thinks, but our state dept of ed is saying *masks* for all students and teachers. It just hit the papers, so I guess we'll see what the public outcry/fallout is from that. Masks aren't even mandated in our state, only suggested. So you have the shaping of an entire generation.

 

 

6 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Interesting point. And the dept of ed is saying it's a *draft* which means they're expecting pushback and that they got "parent" input. So you know what's conspicuously missing? Moving high risk teachers (age 60+, pre-existing conditions) to other jobs within the system or through early retirement so kids wouldn't have to wear masks. But it always goes back to the money, so you can imagine the teacher orgs fought that. 

The other fight they apparently see looming in that article is who *pays* for all this PPE for every kid every day. All so that high risk people don't get repositioned. 

Sorry, but at what point do we call that trauma and abuse?

I can't help but wonder if people griped this much about abuse and "shaping of a generation" about having to wear shoes to school? Like, at some point that became mandatory, for safety, and people adjusted. Masks are cheaper than shoes, and more comfortable for many. Some kids have sensory issues regarding masks, but some kids have sensory issues about shoes, too. And pants, for that matter. Obviously, those with true needs should be able to have a note to opt out, but that isn't the majority. 

As for moving high risk teachers, putting aside HOW MANY that would be, given that 40% of the adult population has some combination of risk factors, what about the families those kids go home to? If they are spreading it around, and a kid goes home to grandma, just too bad? 

As for who pays for the PPE, um, who pays for the clothes that kids are mandated to wear everyday? I don't see peole saying, "it's too expensive, kids should be able to come to school barefoot and pantsless!"  Masks just are not that freaking expensive. And people are making thousands of them for free. If someone can get shoes for their kid, and t-shirts, I imagine we can make sure kids have masks. 

 

[Hilltopmom]

Our district has already started making masks for teachers and students for next year if we need them.

I’m a special Ed teacher but no longer working with severely disabled kids. I can tell you my behavior kids though will refuse to wear a mask if it’s required because they struggle with anything that’s a rule. I can’t even get them to do work or not leave the room without permission.

 

[Ottakee]

25 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Ah yeah he doesn’t read lips so much as look for social cues. His hearing aids boost things enough that it seemed to come across okay, plus his AAC device.

Our district is hosed on SpEd right now, private is going much better but the school based services are really really bad and not able to adjust as readily due to budgets and district/state constraints, both, I think.

Students are really suffering.  Therapists and teachers are trying, but there is no way remote learning can replace a 6 hour planned day where even the play is set up to meet individual students needs.

Then I just saw an article that Michigan schools might face up to a 20% cut in per pupil funding for next year. 

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

 

I am hoping this will positively affect the number of spots available next year. I am not, however, looking forward to an increase in tuition as a result. 😳

UCB https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/04/17/an-update-on-uc-berkeleys-budget-situation/

“Given the importance of fall enrollment to our budget picture, the campus is executing an aggressive approach to admissions, including a week of yield activities kicking off tomorrow with the start of a virtual Cal Week (in place of Cal Day, the well-known campus-wide welcome to our admitted students and community festival).

Having just recently emerged from several years of a budget deficit, we already find ourselves on a frail base, with increased reliance on revenue-generating strategies and philanthropy. After mitigation efforts, FY 2021’s deficit is projected to be in the range of $130-160 million.”

[Twolittleboys]

Not sure what will happen in the fall but this is what is happening at my kids' public school in Germany right now:

Seniors have been back in school for the last 2+ weeks. Juniors (and 4th graders) went back this week. 5th and 6th grade go back next week. The other years will start up after the next vacations in Mid-June (school year ends at the end of July).

This is how our school handles the seniors: They only attend those classes they will have exams in (exams start next week), so 5 subjects per student (generally kids have about 12 subjects per week). Classes were split in half (no more than 15 kids max, generally around 10) and alternate (i.e. one half of the group starts with math and then has German and the other half the other way around). As only a few grades are back right now there are plenty of classrooms available. Right now the seniors have a total of 10 periods a week, spread over three days (Mon to Wed). Kids have to wear masks in public transportation and hallways etc. but not in the classroom. Desks have been moved apart and there isn't regular recess etc.

As far as my 9th grader is concerned, I think he will probably start again in Mid-June; either every second week or 3 days per week. That's the only way they will have enough teachers/classrooms.

My friend's daughter is a junior at another school. They have classes according to the regular schedule but are split in two classrooms. One has the teacher, the other kids watch via video.

 

[gardenmom5]

our district is flirting with the idea of online high school only.  uh - that doesn't work for all kids.  Even college kids who are doing all online this quarter - some are really struggling.  (my son had to withdraw, and plans on working with his advisor and hopefully back into it full-time in the fall. - he was told a lot of kids have really struggled with this and many have withdrawn for the quarter.)

 

[73349]

My district (second largest in the state) has high schools with about 2K students and elementary schools with about 800. (I'm not sure about the middle schools.) It would be interesting if they could conduct elementary school in the high school buildings, hiring extra teachers to cut class size, and then have high school students in an elementary building rotating attendance 1 day a week and online instruction the rest of the time. That would cost a fortune.

Except there aren't as many high schools as elementary schools. Oops. 29 vs. 116. Well, maybe other districts could pull it off.

I'm sure they're preparing lots of possible options. 116k students, with 20k in special education. Year-round elementary schools usually start midway through July. I see they have pulled all the calendars for next year from the web site (they normally set them 1.5 years in advance). The legislature just passed a bill saying all schools have to start on August 17; usually that doesn't apply to year-round schools, but it may affect traditional calendar.

[Innisfree]

24 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

our district is flirting with the idea of online high school only.  uh - that doesn't work for all kids.  Even college kids who are doing all online this quarter - some are really struggling.  (my son had to withdraw, and plans on working with his advisor and hopefully back into it full-time in the fall. - he was told a lot of kids have really struggled with this and many have withdrawn for the quarter.)

 

Yeah, I agree online only isn't the solution. Some kids need to be there, physically, in person. Some could manage with part time in person, part time online. Some might be able to manage online only, with virtual, synchronous classes, like the online classes many of us have utilized as homeschoolers.

I'd be pleased to see options, so parents can pick what works best for each student, especially at the high school level. But that might be too complicated for districts that are going to be struggling under any circumstances.

This year is going to be full of opportunities for us all to practice compromise and flexible thinking, bearing in mind that the ideal world is not available right at the moment. Hopefully in a year we'll be on firmer, more favorable terrain.

And, you know-- flexibility...compromise...perseverance...resilience. These are some pretty valuable lessons for our kids, as tough and as valuable as algebra or a foreign language. They may end up learning more than we expect.

[MEmama]

2 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m too young?  Seriously? 🤣🤣🤣

I left college and got married right as the economy tanked, thanks, and with pretty much no familial support.  It was fine long term, but adjustments to plans and goals had to be made for the allowance that none of us could find jobs.  In my case it changed my career trajectory completely (ie I had kids and stayed home instead).  It worked out just fine, but required flexibility.  And I wouldn’t say we haven’t made up the income issues, either.  But it did require being willing to move and taking a job or two that wasn’t exactly a ‘passion project’ for my spouse so much as paid higher and was tolerable.

I do think higher education for a number of professions is overrated and don’t mind a recentering of norms with more vocational and non-traditional paths opened up though. 
 

It might be harder or look a little different than planned but I’m positive most kids will find a way to not only survive but thrive in these circumstances.  They’re way less ossified than their parents (ie you and me 😉 ).

Sorry, I didn’t realize you graduated in the early 90s. I thought I remembered you are quite a bit younger. Apologies.

[ktgrok]

I'd be interested to see more states adopt a program like CA, where you can be part of a public charter and get funds for curriculum of your choice (wthin parameters) and homeschool. That would maybe incentivize those who can homeschool to do so, making space in the classroom for those who cannot. 

[Arcadia]

4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'd be interested to see more states adopt a program like CA, where you can be part of a public charter and get funds for curriculum of your choice (wthin parameters) and homeschool. That would maybe incentivize those who can homeschool to do so, making space in the classroom for those who cannot. 

I think even California charters might be affected if in-person classes can't take place in fall. People in my area use charter funds to pay for music lessons, art lessons, ballet, gym, sports, sciences. Some might not want to go with charter if classes are going to stay online for fall semester or if the in-person classes (with social distancing in place) cost more. It is easy to homeschool in California, no govt oversight.

Besides, K-12 funding is also on the governor's chopping board for state budget along with many other items.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article242736921.html

"Education

One area that will see a substantial cut in state funding, offset somewhat by federal dollars, is K-12 education.

Last year, the state formula that determines minimum school funding provided about $81.1 billion for K-12 schools and community colleges. The sudden revenue decline would have pushed school funding to $70.5 billion funding through that formula.

Newsom is proposing to augment school funding by using for $4.4 billion in federal funding “to address learning loss and equity issues exacerbated by the COVID-19 school closures this spring,” according to the budget summary. That money comes from an economic assistance bill President Donald Trump signed in March.

The governor also wants to provide schools about $1 billion in funding next year by redirecting money that was to be used for a prepayment of state pension liabilities.

Higher education

Higher education will see significant cuts in funding.

The University of California and California State University systems each will see a 10 percent reduction in state support, though the UC and CSU systems have been instructed “to minimize the impact to program and services serving under-represented student access” to those systems.

The new budget sustains support for two years of free community college, however, and Newsom said that the CalGrant program will be key to supporting out-of-work Californians who decide to go back to school."

[rebcoola]

Yeah I'm curious if we will see an increase or decrease in our hybrid school. If they don't end up offering any fun enrichment classes.  I could see a lot of families dropping unless they actually need the curriculum money.  It will probably come out even seems like anytime things change some people leave and some join.  I think the private schools maybe in trouble a lot of my friends don't want to pay big bucks to do zoom lessons.

[The Governess]

I’m worried about the 2021 seniors as well. Dd is graduating next year and wants to audition for year-round ballet training (with the hope of dancing professionally) AND apply to colleges that have a strong ballet major. Ballet companies are hurting right now, which means that there will likely be fewer training spots next year. Will there be fewer dancers auditioning for spots? I imagine some dancers will quit and pursue other things, but I can’t imagine it won’t be competitive.  And if colleges are going to have more applicants than usual for fall of 2021, that means more dancers applying for a fixed number of spots within the ballet program... and probably less of a chance for any type of scholarship.  There aren’t a lot of schools in the US that have a specific ballet major (vs general dance major). Ballet is what she loves and what she has been working toward seriously since she turned 10. This is just so discouraging.  

My question for those students that are going to defer is... what will they do during their gap year? They can’t take college classes or they lose freshman status. They can’t travel, really. They will have a challenging time finding employment. What are the good options here?

[Arcadia]

17 minutes ago, lovelearnandlive said:

 My question for those students that are going to defer is... what will they do during their gap year? They can’t take college classes or they lose freshman status. They can’t travel, really. They will have a challenging time finding employment. What are the good options here?

Many are still employed at Target, Safeway, In-N-Out Burger, Chick-Fil-A, Starbucks. I see a lot of young adults at those places working. They can study using free MOOCs. 
 

[MEmama]

5 hours ago, lovelearnandlive said:

I’m worried about the 2021 seniors as well. Dd is graduating next year and wants to audition for year-round ballet training (with the hope of dancing professionally) AND apply to colleges that have a strong ballet major. Ballet companies are hurting right now, which means that there will likely be fewer training spots next year. Will there be fewer dancers auditioning for spots? I imagine some dancers will quit and pursue other things, but I can’t imagine it won’t be competitive.  And if colleges are going to have more applicants than usual for fall of 2021, that means more dancers applying for a fixed number of spots within the ballet program... and probably less of a chance for any type of scholarship.  There aren’t a lot of schools in the US that have a specific ballet major (vs general dance major). Ballet is what she loves and what she has been working toward seriously since she turned 10. This is just so discouraging.  

My question for those students that are going to defer is... what will they do during their gap year? They can’t take college classes or they lose freshman status. They can’t travel, really. They will have a challenging time finding employment. What are the good options here?

We have been having this discussion as well. None of the things that truly make up a gap year—generally intended, as I understand it, to be productive either to the community and/or enriching to to the student—will exist this upcoming year. No travel, no internships, no education-focused jobs, no volunteer opportunities (well, far fewer and not plentiful in most degree enhancing areas)...it will be interesting to see how universities respond to students wanting to defer if they don’t have actual plans, vs deferring for other reasons (parents financial situation changed, health reasons, mental stress  etc), or if they will differentiate at all. 
Certainly some students who have committed to prestigious schools won’t want to give up their accepted status, but for many/most, paying many tens of thousands of dollars a year to take online courses will be a tough choice. 

[Wheres Toto]

17 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

I can't help but wonder if people griped this much about abuse and "shaping of a generation" about having to wear shoes to school? Like, at some point that became mandatory, for safety, and people adjusted. Masks are cheaper than shoes, and more comfortable for many. Some kids have sensory issues regarding masks, but some kids have sensory issues about shoes, too. And pants, for that matter. Obviously, those with true needs should be able to have a note to opt out, but that isn't the majority. 

As for moving high risk teachers, putting aside HOW MANY that would be, given that 40% of the adult population has some combination of risk factors, what about the families those kids go home to? If they are spreading it around, and a kid goes home to grandma, just too bad? 

As for who pays for the PPE, um, who pays for the clothes that kids are mandated to wear everyday? I don't see peole saying, "it's too expensive, kids should be able to come to school barefoot and pantsless!"  Masks just are not that freaking expensive. And people are making thousands of them for free. If someone can get shoes for their kid, and t-shirts, I imagine we can make sure kids have masks. 

 

I remember when they 'no shoes, no shirt, no service' went into effect.   I live in NJ and I know people were very upset about it down at the shore.   I think some people object to anything being mandated from above, regardless of what it is.

[Arcadia]

@MEmama

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/at-work/education/coronaviruss-economic-blow-universities-adapt

“The University of Kentucky is dealing with a more than $70 million shortfall in funds. The university’s engineering school faces a 10 percent budget cut, about the average for other schools at the university. Rudolph Buccheit, dean of the college of engineering, says that while the state budget appropriation is expected to be the same as last year, academic colleges including the engineering school have “picked up expenses that are above and beyond normal leading to a budget deficit.”

Increased expenses for colleges include the cost of technologies needed for distance learning, facilities upkeep and sanitization, and returning students’ room and board fees, among others.

“A lot of public universities are in similar sort of situations,” Buccheit says, facing increased expenses in addition to reduced funding due to state budget cuts. “We want to see if the federal stimulus package will include support for states to protect higher education.” The $14 billion that higher education institutions are receiving so far under the coronavirus relief bill is nowhere close to meeting their needs.

Another big hit could come from lower tuition revenue, given the uncertainty about fall enrollment numbers. “Economic circumstances have changed for some families and there’s uncertainty with health,” he says. The University of Kentucky is planning for 20 percent reduction in first year class enrollment.

Even private schools with large endowments will reel from the tuition loss. And this especially acute for science and engineering schools, since a large part of the student body is international, and those students typically pay higher tuition.

“Undergraduate tuition is the bread and butter,” says Karen Panetta, an IEEE Fellow and dean of graduate education for the school of engineering at Tufts University. “And now you’ve got students saying I think I might defer a year, which is sending shockwaves through research institutions. Right now schools are panicking over this huge loss of revenue.”

Being a Research 1 institution, Tufts also depends on federal research funding, and pandemic-related laboratory closures will affect those research dollars, she says.

Meanwhile, costs keep ratcheting up. Tufts is planning for an anticipated opening in the fall in which they would have to implement social distancing. That means the way everything is done in an academic has to change: dormitories, libraries, classrooms, common spaces. “So the big thing is not just financial loss because that’s global,” Panetta says, “but also how much is it going to cost us for face masks and sanitization.

Plus, she adds, “I took definitive action and made a conscious decision that even if we are open we’re going to have classes available online.” That’s because international students might not be able to get into the country in October. So all the Tufts engineering departments have already started working on courses being available online, which comes at a cost.

Long-term impact on finances might depend on how long the pandemic and its after-effects last. For now, says Buccheit, “we have reserves we can use to help get us through what we hope will be a one or two year fiscal problem.””

[rebcoola]

I'm in WA and we order through the school their has been a lot tightening over the last few years.  We can still get pretty much anything not religious though.  We can no longer pay for art,music, PE, or other classes off-site with our funds.  When my first started you could pay for gymnastics now you the school has a gymnastics coach come and you can signup for a gymnastics workshop.

[Arcadia]

32 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

The organizations that come out ahead in this are going to be those who know how to think outside the box, and make their offering (and deal with new offerings) in a new reality.  

Many public school parents are now giving CAVA (K12 Inc) a second look as that online public school has been around for ages. Getting all your curriculum materials sent to your home including lab equipment is enticing for parents who feel that their school district are doing home based learning badly.

[Storygirl]

We got a updated message from our public school superintendent today. Administration would like to be able to start school normally in the fall but is anticipating that may not happen. So that means they may decide to offer remote learning, as they are this spring, or figure out a way to have only 50% of students in the buildings, using social distancing.

There are multiple options they are considering for the 50% scenario, including having some students voluntarily continuing to work remotely or having an A/B schedule. They are sharing ideas with nearby districts, consulting with current parent committees, and will offer a parent-survey for input for all families in early June. Because they don't have final guidelines from state authorities yet (just a draft of what the state department of ed has been considering), and because our state is just opening up and no one knows how that will go yet, the school has a lot of things that remain up in the air at this time, including staffing, class scheduling, and ordering materials.

Remote learning worked very well for my kids this spring, but they would want to return to school. I like the idea of having them at school a couple of days a week and doing remote learning the other days, depending upon how that would be set up. I think that would work fine for my kids for academics, but they are in art and band and choir, and those things are questionable. I haven't seen anything yet about how schools might handle electives.

[TrixieB]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:41 PM, gardenmom5 said:

our district is flirting with the idea of online high school only.  uh - that doesn't work for all kids.  Even college kids who are doing all online this quarter - some are really struggling.  (my son had to withdraw, and plans on working with his advisor and hopefully back into it full-time in the fall. - he was told a lot of kids have really struggled with this and many have withdrawn for the quarter.)

 

For sure, online doesn't work for all kids.  My college kid is managing to do okay in one online class, but will withdraw from the other.  The college cancelled three of my kid's classes this quarter because they weren't possible to do online.   

[Meriwether]

On 5/14/2020 at 7:42 PM, Arctic Mama said:

Ah, I think we are talking about different things then. I’m quite a bit younger, but I was in high school during 9/11 and leaving college right in the eve of the financial market and housing market meltdown.  My parents are STILL upside down on their mortgage in California thanks to the housing crash and a poorly timed HELOC 🙂. I was trying to launch *right* as things exploded, and most of my friends were job hunting in 08-10, which was a brutal time to be a new grad.  My husband was in the previous batch, though 😉

This makes me feel so old. I taught high school briefly before kids. I taught during 9/11. My former students could be on this board, which is logical but still weird to me.

[ktgrok]

16 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

I like this.  WA has/had this but it was a LOT simpler to implement than the CA system.  Basically, you chose a district and you got an allowance.  You ordered your own materials--anything but religious-based materials were fine.  You order, you pay, you submit the receipt to the "system" and you get reimbursed.

CA's system, you have to order THROUGH the charter school which adds a layer of bureaucracy for both the homeschooler and the curriculum providers.  It does increase jobs but that in turn increases product prices.  :0|

Florida has a special needs scholarship that works this way. Kids with certain diagnosis can qualify, basically it is for kids who might be better off educated at home (and lets face it, I'm sure the goal is that it is cheaper to pay for homeschool materials than it is to pay for special education services, OT, etc etc). They give a large amount of money (well, it goes into an account and you pay, then get reimbursed. But you cannot use public school for anything if you get it...so not OT or Speech therapy, if you use the state online school classes ala carte like other students you have to pay for them, rather than them being free, etc. So no double dipping. But again it is a large amount of money and will pay privately for those things. 

If it was done for kids without all those special needs I'd see it being a lesser amount, less than the school would spend on the child if they were in school. That would still be enough for parents to buy quite a lot for the student. 

14 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

I've been looking at some online offerings just for fun, and before CoVid-19 hit and it is really interesting to see the difference it makes to think outside the box.  There was one company (I think it was in Australia) that did a completely different MODEL of learning using the capabilities of the technology.  So much of what we see now in the emergency distance learning is trying to map current delivery methods and materials onto a high-tech delivery system.  It's STILL a teacher in a classroom, it's STILL worksheets and tests and deadlines and lockstep...just using a computer. This company had changed the model to take advantage of the technology.  It's hard to describe, but it is most certainly not lockstep--students learn at their own pace, and with a variety of assignments / options for learning the content and expressing their understanding.  The site provided links to multiple sites of content but also of "web-based experience"--WATCH the babies hatch from the eggs in the nest that happens to be in Nepal; go to choir practice with the xyz chorale and work on the same vocal exercises...that sort of thing.  It's broken from the past to take advantage of the capabilities of the technology and human interaction.

Another one:  It is possible that online schools like Governor's will do OK because they have broken with the university model in many ways.  They've been online from the get-go.  They have a reasonable  ($3,000) flat fee for however many classes you can pass in 3 months or something like that.  So if you have been doing bookkeeping for 20 years, you don't have to take 15 weeks of a bookkeeping 101 class just to get a grade/credit--you take the test.  You pass the test? You get the credits.  Next.  You don't have to be limited to 18 credits per semester.  Pass as many as you can.  You don't have to take any number of classes -- take one.  It's still $3,000 but you can manage your life around it.  I've had a couple of middle-aged friends with work experience but no degree complete their degree in about a year (to finish a degree begun years ago--and he got a fat promotion at work because of it) or a year-and-a-half when it was pretty much a complete bootstrap.  Governor's will make it...because they were already somewhat breaking the mold, thinking outside the box.  (That's my opinion.)

Yes, my husband is finishing up his masters with WGU. 

I very much believe that necessity is the mother of invention, and hope to see some interesting options come out of this. It would be great if schools did things like say, Derek Owens does, with hybrid classes and notes to take, etc, or let kids sub in other math programs like CTC math, etc.