Belief in afterlife and fear of death

[regentrude]

Something I have been thinking about that I don't understand. I hope someone here can explain it.

If someone believes in the afterlife in an amazing paradise where they get to hang with all their loved ones for eternity, why are they afraid of death? Shouldn't they rather wish to die?
Of course, their god doesn't allow them the shortcut of killing themselves, but why do they still go to great lengths to prevent dying? Is it because they feel they have responsibilities to fulfill?

Edited April 18, 2020 by regentrude

[Lecka]

Well we just watched The Looming Tower on Hulu, about the hijackers on 9-11, and they were ready to die on some level.  One man seemed sad to miss his kids (in this fictional retelling) but he went ahead and followed through.  
 

My husband has seen a suicide bomber in Iraq.  
 

There are people going for it.  We hear they are poor people and are promised their family will be taken care of, to some extent.  
 

Separately from things like that, I think a lot of people feel like they have a purpose on Earth and need to do their purpose on Earth while they are here on Earth, and that is part of purpose, to have a purpose on Earth even while also believing in an afterlife.  That doesn’t take away from an Earthly purpose or God’s plan for us here on Earth.  
 

Not sure if that is what you are thinking of or not.  

[barnwife]

I think it's because things that are new can be scary. And while death certainly isn't new, it's something we can't know what it's like until it happens. Then there's the whole "don't know when it will happen" side of things. 

I am one who believes in an afterlife/heaven (I am Catholic). I certainly hope to become a saint one day. It's the not knowing what that transition to it will be like that's scary, if that makes sense. That being said, I was with my dad when he passed, and that experience has definitely lessened the scariness for me.

[Ottakee]

I think it varies.  I know some Christians that go to great lengths to live longer while others accept a cancer diagnosis and decide not to try intensive (but not likely to work) treatments.

Personally, I do not fear death.   I can say though the process of dying is not something I look forward too.

I do believe that God created us with a string desire to live.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know that I will go to be with God when I die. But I don’t want to leave my children when they are still young adults. And I am afraid of death that might be very painful (like suffocating to death from COVID19) or that which might not actually end in death but will be simply debilitating. And while I do believe what the Bible says, I am a bit afraid of the unknown. (I have that same fear often about other things in life.). 

[Annie G]

Several years ago the wife of a friend was in the hospital and was seriously ill. Her husband told us he was jealous that his wife might die because that meant she would get to meet Jesus before he did. It was the most bizarre conversation ever. When she recovered we wondered if he was disappointed...it was just weird.  So yeah I think there are some people who are really looking forward to what comes next. 

[marbel]

I'm pretty much with Ottakee and Jean.  I'd rather not die painfully nor have an untimely death which for me means before my kids are settled as adults.  

Also I agree that humans in general have a strong desire to live. Though I have known a few people who refused medical treatment for terminal disease because they felt a strong sense of God "calling them home."

 

[EKS]

Because it is a biological imperative to avoid death, and biology trumps religion.

[maize]

For me, my primary reason for wanting to stay around is because I want to be here to take care of my family--they need me.

Secondary reason is that I believe we are here on earth to learn and do important things and it isn't my place to decide when my time here is up.

[ScoutTN]

As a Christian, I believe that life is a gift from God and that people are made in His image with purpose to glorify Him in this world. Life is precious and not random. God gave me the biology that strives to live. It's all I know and there is much in this life to love. Death is the result of Sin and is an Enemy. 

I agree with Jean and the others who echoed her about timing and the process of dying. My kids are young teens and I'd like to be around when they do some more growing up.

I believe that my soul will be with God instantly upon my death and that there will be a resurrection of the dead when Jesus comes again. I do look forward to being completely free from sin and it's effects, to being in God's presence, and with His people. I do look forward to the new heavens and the new earth. I anticipate these things all the time, but also trust God for the timing. Paul wrestles with just these things several times in his letters. We live in the now and the not yet - Christ has come and we have real spiritual life, but not like it will be when all is made right.

Timely question given both the CV crisis and the Easter season.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by ScoutTN

[HS Mom in NC]

Yes.  Life is full of lessons to learn, practices to minister to others to demonstrate God's love, and practices that mature/develop/grow our spirits/souls that will go on after death.  Yes, someone who believes in an afterlife with their God should be at peace with dying. I have legal documents in place that don't allow anyone to go to great lengths to avoid my death. It's reasonable to want to avoid dying painfully.

According to the doctor I was within 3-4 minutes of bleeding to death when my middle daughter was born. Yes, I was clearly in the process of dying before I was given a general anesthesia and The Holy Spirit (AKA The Comforter) was present giving me comfort and making me at peace with what was happening in spite of the agony of having a placenta slowly tearing off and my blood supply pouring into my uterus full of baby. I expected I would die. He kept saying, "Be still and know that I am God." and giving me a sense of peace while I was being prepped for emergency surgery when I had no pain relief before the general anesthesia and had to remain physically still.  That was hard. The medical staff kept telling me they knew it was painful for me.  They had no idea.  It was way more painful than the 2 day completely unmedicated in any way labor with my oldest 2 years before.

Both the overwhelming pain and emotional/mental comfort were happening at the same time and The Comforter was the dominant experience. Yes, it was disappointing that my soul didn't leave that room with Him. Yes, I was/am delighted to have a life here with my family.  I'll spend eternity with God; if I get more time here in this life that's great.  If I don't, that's great.   According to the doctor there's no medical explanation for me living through that.

Some people do find that perspective unsettling.   When my brother and SIL were hiking with me to Havsupai Falls in the Grand Canyon there was moment climbing out of Mooney Falls on a frayed rope with inadequate tension over white water.  My SIL said, "Ugh.  We're going to die here!" and I said excitedly, "But what a way to go!  Down Mooney Falls, to the Colorado River and straight to Jesus!  It'll be awesome in every sense of the word!" She said, "You're not helping." 

[Momto6inIN]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Something I have been thinking about that I don't understand. I hope someone here can explain it.

If someone believes in the afterlife in an amazing paradise where they get to hang with all their loved ones for eternity, why are they afraid of death? Shouldn't they rather wish to die?
Of course, their god doesn't allow them the shortcut of killing themselves, but why do they still go to great lengths to prevent dying? Is it because they feel they have responsibilities to fulfill?

I'm not afraid of death, but I am afraid of dying a painful death and am reluctant to leave my loves ones here on earth. Kind of like how I knew I wanted children, but was afraid of the pain of labor and apprehensive about how our lives would change when adding a child to our marriage. Very few people die peacefully in their sleep at a ripe old age with no regrets and no one left behind, regardless of their religious beliefs and adherence to the dictates of their faith, ykwim?

[kbutton]

13 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Death is the result of Sin

This, though I also agree with others that we're not guaranteed that we won't suffer as we die and that we're given biology that wants to live and fights to live. 

Even though he knew what the game plan was, Jesus agonized in the Garden of Gethsemane knowing that he was going to suffer as he died (and feel the weight of the sins of the world). 

For Christians, the ideas of sin and death are pretty inseparable. 

OTOH, the Bible also talks about the death of a believer being precious to him. It's my understanding the word could be translated as costly/valuable/not trivial, and the context is gratitude for life being spared. 

[J-rap]

Well, probably because life right now is often very nice too?  We have our family here, our loved ones, our experiences.  It's all very tangible.   But also, I want to be able to help others if I can.   Life certainly isn't just about me and what I want.  

I do think of our lives here as a gift ~ the whole experience of it, both the good and the bad.  It's a gift I don't take lightly.  I think if God gave us this gift of life here, there's a reason for it, and it's worth experiencing while we can.

Although I admit, I have often thought these past few years about how much I look forward to life in the very real presence of God, away from pain and heartache.

Interestingly, I just started a book called "The Slavery of Death" a few days ago, which is (I believe) about the fear of death.   I'm just a few pages in so can't say much about it yet.

Edited April 19, 2020 by J-rap

[Junie]

I believe that God has a purpose for each of His children.  Heaven comes after that purpose has been fulfilled.  Also, this life is so short compared to the eternity of Heaven.  While I look forward to living in Heaven one day, the amount of time that I spend here on Earth does not take away from the amount of time that I will spend in Heaven.  I want to live a long life here before I die.

My dad died last year.  I remember telling people that I was sad for my mom, but so, so happy for my dad.  My dad was in the late stages of Parkinson's disease and I was so relieved for him when his suffering ended.  I knew that my dad didn't want to live in a world in which he could not walk, sit up, or (especially) eat.

[MercyA]

I only fear death when I know I am not in a right relationship with God. 

[Terabith]

When she was six, my oldest suggested we all go lay down in the interstate so we could go to heaven, so.....

[J-rap]

42 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

As a Christian, I believe that life is a gift from God and that people are made in His image with purpose to glorify Him in this world. Life is precious and not random. God gave me the biology that strives to live. It's all I know and there is much in this life to love. Death is the result of Sin and is an Enemy. 

 

 

In the book I just started reading (The Slavery of Death), the author takes another view of this.  He suggests that it's actually the other way around.  Sin (or more simply, our mortal shortcomings) are made more profound in light of our fear of death (and anxieties of self-preservation, self-esteem, etc.).  (Well, I've just started the book but that's what I'm getting out of it so far!)  

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, txk said:

Because it's probably going to be very painful and very messy.  One of my dd's worked in a nursing home with many people who were dying.  It was very, very messy and (to me) humiliating ... dying.  

But, really, it's the pain that I fear, pure and simple.

Yup. That’s true for me, too. 

Also, I really hate medical stuff. I really dislike tubes, needles, catheters...things stuffed up the nose, down the throat, into the urethra, into my veins. The scariest thing about COVID-19 to me (besides possibly dying) is the idea of a ventilator. Oh how I hate the mere idea of them! 

The next-scariest thing about COVID-19 to me, after the ventilator, believe it or not, is the idea of being swabbed because I know what that entails and I hate it sooooooo much! I have only been swabbed in the nose like that once for a flu test and, truly, I would not mind going the rest of my life without ever being nose-raped like that again! 

[fairfarmhand]

Because as christians, In our hearts we know we’re not supposed to die. We weren’t made for death but for life.

[SKL]

I'm not afraid of death for myself, but I don't want to leave my kids when they are young.  I also don't want my parents to experience the loss of their kid.  I think there is a time when many if not most people feel ready to go.  I remember both of my grandparents expressing that feeling shortly before they died.

[DesertBlossom]

I am not afraid to die, but like others the thought of leaving my little kids is heart-wrenching. 

When my mother came to terms with the fact that her cancer would kill her, her biggest fear was that her grandkids wouldn't know how much she loved them. It's still the hardest part of her death for me too... knowing that my youngest kids have no memory of her. She was the best grandma ever. 

Death is only sad for those of us left behind. Those that have gone on have found peace, and I think that if we really knew what death was like, we'd be more inclined to hasten it.

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

Something I have been thinking about that I don't understand. I hope someone here can explain it.

If someone believes in the afterlife in an amazing paradise where they get to hang with all their loved ones for eternity, why are they afraid of death? Shouldn't they rather wish to die?
Of course, their god doesn't allow them the shortcut of killing themselves, but why do they still go to great lengths to prevent dying? Is it because they feel they have responsibilities to fulfill?

I don't think people who have a *sincere* belief in "an amazing paradise where they get to hand with all their loved ones" - are afraid of death. (getting there - that's another story.)  They may have a sense they still have more to do, and so fight to live.   As my father-in-law lay dying of cancer (back in the 60s, when most treatment was pain relief), one of his nurses asked him why he was always in a good mood.  "why do it the hard way?"

I have know a few who professed a belief in an afterlife, who seemed afraid of death.  (the one in particular I'm thinking about - was NOT "a nice person".  she generally hated any mention of death or dying, she lived in denial.)

I've done genealogy for years - yes, I believe dead people have talked to me (lets get real - made demands) when I was looking for them.  No, I'm not afraid of death.  I do feel I have things I need to do here.  I have lost both of my parents - my father when I was 12, and had been raised with "death is the end, when you're dead you're dead"**. - my father was the one adult I believed would actually actively love me, so I was devastated and felt very alone.  When my mother died, I was sad, still miss her on occasion - but for both, I know I will see them again.

** (I think those that seek to have their bodies/heads cryofrozen fall into that category but are still attempting to prolong their "life")

One perspective I've gained from doing genealogy -I believe those in the Spirit world are more alive than are we.  We have many things that hobble us.

[Liz CA]

If we didn't have a fear of death or rather a strong sense of self-preservation "built in," many would just choose to give up, die when things get tough. I have twice in my life been given a diagnosis that could have led to death. The first time I went for the full treatment. Second incident (different ailment) I chose to take the road less traveled so to speak and go the minimally invasive route knowing I could die. At that point I was older and my son was 17 instead of 7. This did make a difference to me even though someone could say that I overestimate my importance since surely his father and perhaps another woman could have raised him as well. Just to be clear, the first time I was okay with the type of treatment even though it was rough (heavy duty antibiotics for 12 months), when the other thing happened, I did not agree with the treatment philosophy and chose differently. I was not worried about leaving a young child behind had I died. I am not really afraid of death if I knew it was fast. I think "fear of death" means usually fear of the process of dying, the possible pain and debilitation one may have to endure before one finally can die.

My grandmother was ready to die when she became ill at 80 and an aunt refused any kind of treatment but palliative care when she became ill at 87. Both knew they were dying and did not wish to prolong life.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Liz CA

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, J-rap said:

In the book I just started reading (The Slavery of Death), the author takes another view of this.  He suggests that it's actually the other way around.  Sin (or more simply, our mortal shortcomings) are made more profound in light of our fear of death (and anxieties of self-preservation, self-esteem, etc.).  (Well, I've just started the book but that's what I'm getting out of it so far!)  

Sounds very Flannery o Connor 

[J-rap]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Sounds very Flannery o Connor 

Interesting!  Apparently it has its works in the Eastern Orthodox tradition.

[Donna]

Personally, I don't have a fear of death as it pertains to what happens after I die but I do want to live a full life.  I do fear the actual event of dying and possible pain involved. If I knew, when the time was right, I'd die in my sleep, I wouldn't fear it. 

I want to be around to see my loved ones go through their lives and be involved in the lives of my children and grandchildren. I want to see as much of this world as possible and experience everything I can. I will fight to live.

Two nights before my grandmother died at 84, she told me she was ready to die that night and was mad at God for not taking her that night and making her wait two nights. 

 

[TravelingChris]

16 hours ago, regentrude said:

Something I have been thinking about that I don't understand. I hope someone here can explain it.

If someone believes in the afterlife in an amazing paradise where they get to hang with all their loved ones for eternity, why are they afraid of death? Shouldn't they rather wish to die?
Of course, their god doesn't allow them the shortcut of killing themselves, but why do they still go to great lengths to prevent dying? Is it because they feel they have responsibilities to fulfill?

 Your first idea  is what my depressed husband keeps saying and it is just making me very miserable.  We are both believers but when he isn't depressed, we both believe that we were put on earth to do what God wants us to do---- and that doesn't mean disregarding our health and doing things to hasten our death without a reason.  I mean I am much more likely to jump into a dangerous situation to save someone because I believe that God put me there to do that (if it is reasonable to do that- not in an obviously foolhardy way) but it does mean that I believe that God also let my diseases happen and I should be managing those and keeping myself as healthy as I can.  I believe my dh should be doing that too- and he mostly is with my insistence.  But both of us, (but me more so) don't believe we should be walking our without masks and social distancing putting ourselves and others at risk.

 

[TravelingChris]

As to choosing when to die,  I purposefully didn't start a biologic before my youngest was in college because they had so many potential deadly side effects.  Also, I was falsely given a deadly diagnosis shortly after my youngest died but was told they would just monitor it because there was no cure.  A few years later, we moved to Albuquerque and the higher atmosphere made my breathing much easier.  Then four years after that, we moved to Belgium and with their higher powered CATSCANS which were prohibited in the US because US has a lower limit on how much radiation an Xray or CATSCAN can use, that pulmonologist discovered and showed me that I did not have pulmonary fibrosis.  In those 7 yrs, I told my dh the diagnosis at the beginning but the main difference in my life is that we didn't pursue having our planned fourth child.   As it is, that was a very good plan because I started really declining in health when my youngest was starting high school and I think my health would be a lot worse now and it would have been very hard on that non existent fourth child.  

My point here is that God really is in charge and that is what I firmly believe.  But like others, I do not want an awful death.  But I also hate the way my dh is right now where he keeps reminding me of ways he could die or I could die.

[regentrude]

Thank you all for taking the time to share your perspectives. I can see how those make sense within the framework of your faith. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by regentrude

[DesertBlossom]

50 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

Late to chime in...

It strikes me that there is a sort of natural cycle to this as well.  When I was young and had no other-than-myself responsibilities, I had less fear of death.  (This is at the back of why a lot of young people do reckless things...).  Once I had responsibilities, I was much more wary.  Now that I am older, I am less concerned about it.  From what I can tell from my parents and their generation, it is almost ... not "welcome" but sort of...the next thing.  Most seriously older people I know who are facing death are not afraid of death so much as they are of the pain involved in it.  

I guess my point is that there is not necessarily a blanket statement that fits all situations.

I think young people do stupid reckless things, not because they have less fear of death, but because they don't think it'll ever happen to them. (I suppose that sounds like the same thing... ) As a college student I did some backpacking through Central America without any worry about my physical safety. That just wasn't really on my radar. I was invincible!  Now I think 19 year old me was insane.  I don't do reckless things anymore because I am more aware of my odds of dying. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by DesertBlossom

[BlsdMama]

23 hours ago, regentrude said:

Something I have been thinking about that I don't understand. I hope someone here can explain it.

If someone believes in the afterlife in an amazing paradise where they get to hang with all their loved ones for eternity, why are they afraid of death? Shouldn't they rather wish to die?
Of course, their god doesn't allow them the shortcut of killing themselves, but why do they still go to great lengths to prevent dying? Is it because they feel they have responsibilities to fulfill?

It's pretty complex and I wonder if many people ever fully understand how complex until they're dying.

In December of 2016 I had a nasty fast miscarriage.  We'd known the baby had died, but apparently the placenta kept growing.  One morning, everything just "let go" and my uterus didn't clamp down.  I bled everywhere very, very quickly.  Called the ambulance, passed out in that.  They put in an IV, drove down the road, had another fella jump in and insert one in the other arm, and went lights and sirens.  Emergency D & C and a lot of blood and I was fine.  It was beyond sobering.  It really brought an awareness of being finite?  I don't think that awareness actually exists in most people.  It's something we push away.  Even with that close call, in a lot of ways, I chalked it up to being close, but obviously I was brought through because I couldn't envision God's plan for my life to be "less than" that story I'd written in my head.  You know, the one where I raise my kids, live to be old, see my grandkids...

Moving forward to October 2017, when I took that first fall, then the second, and then when I made that first doctor appointment.  Did I feel confident in my faith as real and true? Yes.  I would call myself a born again Christian with a firm foundation on Christ and that I feel certain of my place after this life.  And when "Motor Neuron Disease" became the diagnosis (meaning PLS - ALS' little ugly sister, but hey, not *quite* ALS yet, but the expectation is there. So much so, they administered SEVEN EMGs in the past three years, with the three year anniversary one at the University confirming ALS.)  Each one of those steps (the initial diagnosis, the secondary diagnosis, the temporary misdiagnosis at Mayo, resulting trials, and inevitable disappointment) came with huge, heartbreaking disappointments.  But why? After all, in Paul's words, "to live is Christ, to die is gain," and if I believe that, then why was I so heartbroken?

We very much live in a culture that believes death is not inevitable - take this supplement, do this exercise, look at this statistic.  Death, marketers would like to tell you, is avoidable!  And then we have sick people jump through an incredible amount of hoops under the responsibility of being a "Fighter!" The pressure on a sick person to exhaust every possible remedy and "beat this" is heavy.  

Truth is - I've come up close and personal with how much I love my life.  I love Christ.  I eagerly anticipate a time which I am in Heaven.  However, it breaks my heart to leave behind the people I love.  I am very aware of the responsibility of the Christian life and the parable of the servants and the talents.  Have I invested that which I was given heavily and gained returns? Not that I think my actions disappoint Him nor that they need to be "sufficient" but to love someone so much that you want to do good things for them.  Does that make sense?  I want to squeeze everything out of this life and me that I can - to be "poured out" as an offering. I think a better non-Christian would be the idea of "pouring into" others' lives and that you want to continue that ministry. 

Another truth is that death rarely comes without illness.  When people fear death, they don't mean that they fear slipping off to sleep in their nineties after a long and wonderful life.  They fear sometimes a mode of death and other times, simply leaving things unfinished.  The truth is that we want our cake and to eat it too.  After all, Heaven is still there *after* I've raised my babies, watched my children marry, met my grandkids, and FINALLY spent some time alone with just my husband!  

I did fear death - as in truly fear it.  I feared leaving babies without a mama.  I feared the mode of death - generally it's asphyxiation as the result of a weak diaphragm.  I've thought since the miscarriage, bleeding out is a relatively sweet way to die - you feel very dizzy and very tired, but then you pass out.  No real fear to speak of - running out of oxygen doesn't have the same ring to it.  Though, it is said due to the high CO2 in the blood, that can be fairly peaceful as well.  I'd say I still fear sickness.  There is that moment at Gethsemane where Christ has been praying and he says to the Father, "If it be possible, let this cup pass from me, but if not, Thy will be done." And I'd say that largely is how I have come to feel - that I realize this disease holds great suffering and I'd really rather NOT if I were being honest, but I've seen good come from it and I have deep faith that He works all things for good for those who love Him, even in this.  I would rather be healed if I were being honest, but am willing.

And finally, what someone might express as fear is less fear than reluctance.  You are right that I should want Christ above all, but as a Christian I believe I've already taken hold of that.  I fully have him now and more fully in Heaven.  But right now, I ache to stick around as long as I can.  😉