Breaking off a friendship...again

[Shoeless]

I did a stupid thing and reconnected with an ex-friend.  The friendship ended because they were extremely needy and would act very pushy and demanding when I wasn't available.  I tried a few times to "recalibrate" the friendship, but was never able to successfully get them to respect my boundaries. They'd send multi-paragraph emails several times a day *every day*,  and get really upset when I didn't answer them immediately, and multiple texts every day about their relationship problems. Whenever I tried to say "Hey, I need a little breathing room.  I can't drop everything to answer email, texts, phone calls", they'd get very upset and cry about how they know they're a burden, they're unlovable, everyone abandons them, and me pulling away was proof of their unlovableness.  Eventually I had to say "I can't fix what is wrong here" and said goodbye. They took it really hard, but I was feeling SO smothered and dreading every single interaction with this friend.  I feel really imposed upon and taken advantage.  

I stupidly reached out to this ex friend about a month ago.  It has been quite a few years since we'd spoken, and with the pandemic...I guess I was feeling vulnerable and worried.  I sent an email and after a few weeks, they responded.  The first few emails were ok! Some catching up, some "How are you holding up? Do you need anything?" type talk. I thought maybe things would be ok?

And...it is now not ok. We're back to 8-10 paragraph emails multiple times a day, *every day*, lamenting all the same relationship problems with the same people from 10 years ago, but now filtered through the lens of a pandemic. Nothing has changed.  I didn't respond right away to the last email, because it wasn't really sure what I wanted to say, if anything.  The next day, I get an email poking at me about why I am ignoring them. It had been less than 24 hours!

I now regret the decision to reach out, because it seems like it's going to be more of the same things that made me walk away in the first place.  I'm really mad at myself for opening this can of worms, because now I have to end things again. I really don't want to hurt this person, but I know they are going to feel hurt and abandoned no matter what. 

Can anyone help me find some words to extricate myself, again? Ghosting seems mean, especially since they would then wonder if I got COVID-19 and something happened to me.   I don't want to be mean, but I really regret reaching out and want to go back to not speaking to them again, and need a way to make that clear. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I dunno, I'm not a fan of ghosting, but I think partial ghosting would be reasonable in this case.

As in, wait a reasonable amount of time before responding, and not really engaging on the question of why you didn't sooner.  More light and breezy, "Hey, nice to hear from you.  Today the first daffodil bloomed--something I'm happy to see!"  

[mathnerd]

Do not reply on the same day to texts and emails. Do not pick up the phone if they call. Tell that person that since you are on information overload from COVID news, you are taking a break from electronics to reduce your stress and that you might not check your messages every day. Most of all, if you ever reply, do not reply to the topic in the emails, just reply in a generic fashion about impersonal matters.

Edited April 18, 2020 by mathnerd

[Scarlett]

Well I feel for you.  I have a ‘friend’ that probably falls in that category.  I reached out to her the other day sharing a pic of her and me.....it had popped up inexplicably on my IPad.....she then launched into a ‘I don’t know how to juggle my situation.  I think I am just not worthy’.  I felt like smashing my head into my keyboard.....same things over and over.  ‘You alone are responsible for your decisions.  You do know what to do. Can I help? ‘ 

I dread dread dread interaction with her yet feel guilty for not being encouraging to get her life in order.  

[J-rap]

Just do what you feel comfortable in doing and don't over-think it.  You don't owe her a reciprocal type of communication.  

I was in touch with an old friend a couple years ago and it has kind of escalated (at their end) way beyond what I was interested in or comfortable with.  I just keep responding only as I'm comfortable -- and not what I feel guiltily obligated to respond to.  (And I know that's not easy!  I have to continually remind myself that this is okay.)  I think you can do that and it would be fine.

It's hard for those of us who kind of have a guilt-conscious and feel like we need to reciprocate in kind.  I get it.  But listen to your gut and just do what you normally would do, not what you think THEY would like you to do.

Edited April 22, 2020 by J-rap
~just realized that my computer had changed "reciprocate" to "recuperate" :)

[Scarlett]

31 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Send her the number of a good therapist and back away.

I have those kind of 'not worthy' thoughts OFTEN - my friends are not and have never been my free dumping grounds for those emotions. 'Cos that's not friendship, that's just using another person to enact your negative thought patterns to.  That's using friends as an audience.

That is what it feels like. Especially since it is the same thing over and over.  I tried to be her friend for several years.....through some really rough times.....and the thing is she has no idea what I have been through the last year or so.  

[Scarlett]

18 minutes ago, J-rap said:

Just do what you feel comfortable in doing and don't over-think it.  You don't owe her a reciprocal type of communication.  

I was in touch with an old friend a couple years ago and it has kind of escalated (at their end) way beyond what I was interested in or comfortable with.  I just keep responding only as I'm comfortable -- and not what I feel guiltily obligated to respond to.  (And I know that's not easy!  I have to continually remind myself that this is okay.)  I think you can do that and it would be fine.

It's hard for those of us who kind of have a guilt-conscious and feel like we need to recuperate in kind.  I get it.  But listen to your gut and just do what you normally would do, not what you think THEY would like you to do.

It is hard.  Even when you only do what you are comfortable doing....it is still not a pleasant relationship.  It always feels pressurized. 

[katilac]

2 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I dunno, I'm not a fan of ghosting, but I think partial ghosting would be reasonable in this case.

As in, wait a reasonable amount of time before responding, and not really engaging on the question of why you didn't sooner.  More light and breezy, "Hey, nice to hear from you.  Today the first daffodil bloomed--something I'm happy to see!"  

This is what I would start with. I'd ignore any poking or questions about why I didn't respond sooner, and just respond. If they say hey you didn't answer me as to why you didn't answer sooner! then I'd say, I often take a long time to answer messages, get used to it! But I'm pretty good at letting drama flow by me,especially digital drama that I can easily ignore, lol.

 

[Shoeless]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well I feel for you.  I have a ‘friend’ that probably falls in that category.  I reached out to her the other day sharing a pic of her and me.....it had popped up inexplicably on my IPad.....she then launched into a ‘I don’t know how to juggle my situation.  I think I am just not worthy’.  I felt like smashing my head into my keyboard.....same things over and over.  ‘You alone are responsible for your decisions.  You do know what to do. Can I help? ‘ 

I dread dread dread interaction with her yet feel guilty for not being encouraging to get her life in order.  

 

Yep, dread is what I am feeling. She's in a lousy job and a lousy marriage, but she could take steps to fix at least some of it!  It's so draining and I feel so bad for her, (I would not want that life!).  Yet she won't change a thing! 

[SKL]

"You're so right - I just have so much going on these days that I can't respond to emails in a timely way.  So hey, I had just wanted to check in and make sure you all were healthy in your neck of the woods.  So glad to hear [the kids are] fine and best of luck working through these trying times.  Wishing you all the best.  Bye!"

[Shoeless]

3 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

Send her the number of a good therapist and back away.

I have those kind of 'not worthy' thoughts OFTEN - my friends are not and have never been my free dumping grounds for those emotions. 'Cos that's not friendship, that's just using another person to enact your negative thought patterns to.  That's using friends as an audience.

 

Ooooooooooh, you hit the nail on the head! 

[Carrie12345]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

"You're so right - I just have so much going on these days that I can't respond to emails in a timely way.  So hey, I had just wanted to check in and make sure you all were healthy in your neck of the woods.  So glad to hear [the kids are] fine and best of luck working through these trying times.  Wishing you all the best.  Bye!"

This is right along the lines of what I was thinking.  It says you cared enough to want to know she’s okay, but you aren’t looking for a repeat of before. Which is all true. (How she interprets it is on her, not you.)

[HS Mom in NC]

Tell the truth in love. These are the main ideas, not necessarily to exact words.

"I respond to digital communications within a few days, not right away."
I say this to people when we exchange contact info because it's true and I want them to have realistic expectations. I know some people walk around attached to a device and can't imagine not immediately responding. I'm so not that person.

"I'm overwhelmed right now, so I'm limiting digital communications to general updates."
No need to specify that dealing with her is really overwhelming and she's the one you're limiting. You're also letting her know what kind of response is normally expected in these situations.

"I'm so glad you and yours aren't sick with this awful virus."
I'm sure you are glad they're not sick.

"The issues you brought up seem to be ongoing and serious.  You should talk to a therapist who's qualified to help you sort it all out and resolve it. I hear there are telemedicine options now, so even these lockdowns aren't stopping people from getting the help they need. "
Clearly she has very deep emotional issues that require professional help to resolve. She needs everyone in her life  to stop playing along with the idea that she just needs to dump every thought and emotion on her girlfriends.  She needs to hear this a problem that needs solving. She needs to hear these things can be solved.  Putting the responsibility of getting help on her is what she needs to hear.

[mlktwins]

8 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

Yep, dread is what I am feeling. She's in a lousy job and a lousy marriage, but she could take steps to fix at least some of it!  It's so draining and I feel so bad for her, (I would not want that life!).  Yet she won't change a thing! 

I had a friend like that (her son was also my boys' best friend)....until she $&?@ all over me in a very long email that she sent me on Mother's Day 2 years ago!  So much time trying to help her, and wanted to break away, but didn't.  And then her email.

Either don't repond at all (ever), or send her an email breaking it off and then don't respond to her ever again.  After my experience, I would run, not walk, away from this.  My "friend" was very unhappy too, but wouldn't do one thing to change her cirucmstances.

 

[Doodlebug]

Honestly and with all the empathy in the world... I would rethink the need you're feeling to respond.  I'm reading this thinking, "What a nice thing," you did.  And in no part of my nice person soul am I thinking you owe a response.  

You were concerned.  You reached out.  This in no way obligates you to do the back and forth with someone who is in full possession of the facts and history surrounding your relationship.  Let it go.  That isn't ghosting.  That's maintaining the boundary you established for this relationship.  Actually, engaging this person after she has laid down an expectation of your timely response is absolutely the wrong thing to do. 

My vote is for don't respond.  Make a response a few days from today, saying "So glad to hear you are okay.  Stay safe!"  And then, go back to your prior status with her.  

Edited April 18, 2020 by Doodlebug

[sassenach]

2 hours ago, Doodlebug said:

Honestly and with all the empathy in the world... I would rethink the need you're feeling to respond.  I'm reading this thinking, "What a nice thing," you did.  And in no part of my nice person soul am I thinking you owe a response.  

You were concerned.  You reached out.  This in no way obligates you to do the back and forth with someone who is in full possession of the facts and history surrounding your relationship.  Let it go.  That isn't ghosting.  That's maintaining the boundary you established for this relationship.  Actually, engaging this person after she has laid down an expectation of your timely response is absolutely the wrong thing to do. 

My vote is for don't respond.  Make a response a few days from today, saying "So glad to hear you are okay.  Stay safe!"  And then, go back to your prior status with her.  

This. In one week, send a one sentence reply that does not engage with any of her issues. I love Doodlebug's suggestion. Then route her emails to your junk box and don't look back. She was toxic then, she's toxic now, she will likely be toxic in the future.

Edited April 18, 2020 by sassenach

[Shoeless]

7 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

 Putting the responsibility of getting help on her is what she needs to hear.

 

In the past, I have strongly recommended she get therapy.  She went a few times, but wouldn't stick with it. 😕 

[Shoeless]

Thanks, everyone!  I feel better about how to handle this.  I'll send a message in a few days saying "Glad you are well; hang in there! I'm going to be offline for a long while, so don't worry if you don't hear from me!" or something similar, and then forward messages to my trash folder.    

[vonbon]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:01 PM, MissLemon said:

I did a stupid thing and reconnected with an ex-friend.  The friendship ended because they were extremely needy and would act very pushy and demanding when I wasn't available.  I tried a few times to "recalibrate" the friendship, but was never able to successfully get them to respect my boundaries.

For what it's worth, I've been in a long-term "friendship" along these lines.  I get what you're saying in that it was "stupid" to get in touch, but I also get why you would.  It was a caring thing to do.  Maybe part of you hoped / wished things had changed for the better on her end with the passage of time?  You couldn't have known either way without getting in touch.  Unfortunately, getting in touch informed you that things haven't changed.  😞   She might have some really redeeming qualities as a human that make you miss her from time-to-time?  There might have been good parts to your relationship too. (?)

I never have completely broken off above-mentioned friendship, though I have been right on the edge of completely distancing myself too many times to count.  It's created a lot of stress on my end, though I don't even think she'd be aware of that.  Sometimes I think it would have been better just to create a lot of distance at the first sign of issues, but life's complicated.  We have witnessed each others' kids grow and change so much and have been there for each other, have experienced life together, I think. 

I have done a lot of the semi-ghosting behavior recommended up above.  It's helped to an extent.  I don't think my friend understands the distance and I know she has felt hurt or confused by it at times, but she also isn't able to hear, acknowledge or accept many things that would need to be acknowledged in order for our friendship to get stronger / be closer.  The line "You can't handle the truth!" bubbles up sometimes when I've searched for solutions; I don't think she could handle me being super-honest with her and I don't want to hurt her.  I didn't know certain tendencies about her for a long time (maybe along the lines of narcissism / self-absorption, but not severe enough that there were huge red flags).  It took awhile (years) and many different contexts to see patterns and put puzzle pieces together.  At first, I explained many things away, wanting to see and believe the best.  I thought she'd work on certain things (things that are really important to me: marriage, parenting).  As time has gone on, I just can't give as much energy to her issues and ways and she doesn't seem to really work on things or even see a need to do so.  The relationship really drains me and stresses me out.  

It's hard.  Life isn't black-and-white.  Our kids are friends and we have mutual friends, live in a fairly small town, so I'm not just going to cut the relationship off.  My friend isn't a "bad person".  She has a lot of toxic ways...always has a lot of drama...victim mentality...superiority complex...needs an audience (as another poster wrote above - good description)...is pushy...doesn't respect others' boundaries...our values don't align often enough that things really bother me.  Some of this has changed / worsened over time, so I don't reproach myself as much as I used to (as in, "Shouldn't I have seen this early on? I should have ended this relationship a long time ago." type of thinking / self-blaming).  The gray area is that now we've known each other for years, our families are comfortable with each other, there's a shared history.  For everyone's sake, I'm not going to burn a bridge.  I don't hold any ill will toward this person or her family; I want the best for them.  I just can't be that close to the chaos / toxicity.

Also, I see all the ways I need to grow and change as a human being.  It's not as if any relationship is one-sided in its problems.  I do have the vantage point of a couple of really healthy, long-term friendships and can see how those are so much a *joy* to be part of.  When I consider what it is like in those friendships, it makes me see that I need to continue "social distancing" to some extent with this person.  I don't know if I'll ever be able to really explain the distance in a way my friend could understand or accept because it would cause her to have to look at certain parts of herself and get real / be real.  I'm afraid it would just result in more of what OP posted about (though not to that extent / severity)...and that, in the end, the only solution I'd find would be to "social distance". 

[Shoeless]

@vonbon Oh yes, there are good parts to her personality, most definitely.  She's very generous and has a great sense of humor.  She's helped me out when I've needed it, and I appreciate that greatly. There's just all the rest of this...stuff...that goes into being her friend that is so overwhelming. 

I sent the email to her the other day, and while I was fiddling with the mail settings to route everything to trash, she responded with "It's fine if we don't talk anymore, but we both need to be on the same page with that, so I need you to write me back and tell me what's going on".  Ugh. No, I'm not going to respond to that.   

[KungFuPanda]

How about

“I’m really not built for constant communication with anyone. It makes me feel claustrophobic. I’m more of a check-in-once-a-month girl. That’s just my personality and I’m not going to change. When I feel pressured to supply incessant feedback, my flight instinct kicks in.”
 

Just be honest about your limitations, where your boundaries lie, and what will happen if those lines are crossed. 

[Doodlebug]

14 hours ago, MissLemon said:

I sent the email to her the other day, and while I was fiddling with the mail settings to route everything to trash, she responded with "It's fine if we don't talk anymore, but we both need to be on the same page with that, so I need you to write me back and tell me what's going on".  Ugh. No, I'm not going to respond to that.   

 

That's a really interesting response.  

"It's fine if we don't talk anymore..."

She understood you.

"...but we both need to be on the same page with that, so I need you to write me back and tell me what's going on"

So your boundary is to happen on her terms, which makes it no longer your boundary.  That is the problem speaking.

Your boundary is not a shared item.  You don't both have to be "on the same page with it."  It is not unkind to let your actions do the talking, especially where words seems to be her playground, encouraging engagement.  It is the only option she leaves you with.  And that's why it feels awful.  No one likes walking away from another human being.  It is really sad and difficult.

 

[Shoeless]

On 4/22/2020 at 9:42 AM, Doodlebug said:

 

That's a really interesting response.  

"It's fine if we don't talk anymore..."

She understood you.

"...but we both need to be on the same page with that, so I need you to write me back and tell me what's going on"

So your boundary is to happen on her terms, which makes it no longer your boundary.  That is the problem speaking.

Your boundary is not a shared item.  You don't both have to be "on the same page with it."  It is not unkind to let your actions do the talking, especially where words seems to be her playground, encouraging engagement.  It is the only option she leaves you with.  And that's why it feels awful.  No one likes walking away from another human being.  It is really sad and difficult.

 

 

In the past, I would have engaged and tried to get her to see my point of view.  When I saw that come up, I was angry about it and thought "Actually, we don't have to be on the same page about it. I am not asking permission to do this; I'm simply doing it".

It's given me some food for thought.  I have a lot of people in my life with a poor concept of boundaries.  I probably need to do some reflection on my own behaviors to understand how I'm letting these folks get so far into my life.   

       

[Rosie_0801]

Maybe "on the same page" just means knowing one way or the other. That's how I would have interpreted it, anyway. It seems an entirely reasonable request for closure, to me.