The covid19-adjusted AP exams

[athena1277]

Am I the only one who’s freaked out about the AP exam format changes?  My oldest is taking AP lit & comp.  The normal test is a multiple choice section plus 3 essay questions. The new one being given due to the school closings is 1 essay.  ONE!  I’m trying to stay calm about it in front of dd, but inwardly the thought of so much hanging on 1 essay is terrifying.  Depending on her score, she can get 1 or 2 college credits at her 1st choice college.  I don’t get why they dropped the multiple choice section.  Maybe cut out what is covered in the last quarter of the year, but not the whole thing.

[Paige]

That’s not fair at all. Everything rides on 1 question? People who can BS well get an advantage over the analytical ones? My kids have AP tests and I wish the College Board would just offer a refund. This is not what we signed up for.
 

[Guest]

I'm planning to just have DD not do it. The idea of everything relying on one question seems like too much pressure, and DD already has DE credits. We were doing AP to make international apps easier,and I don't think that's still on the table. 

[regentrude]

There's a lot of issues with the altered exams. For some exams, like math, they no longer cover the content of the corresponding college course. Colleges have to reevaluate whether they can give credit for the AP test  taken this year, or whether students will need to take a crash course to make up the material that was never covered but needed in the subsequent class. It's a big mess.

Edited April 17, 2020 by regentrude

[Arcadia]

My kids want to get over and done with so they are taking the AP exams they sign up for. Besides they are happy that they don’t need to travel to the testing location. Both my kids have already taken a few AP exams so if they test well this time it won’t be odd and if they don’t test well this time it won’t be unusual. 

One kid is using the calculus BC exam to skip prerequisites. He took the class in summer 2019 so he did cover the entire course and would definitely be revising prior to his first community college math class if he gets a 4 or 5 to skip prerequisites. 

[Paige]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

There's a lot of issues with the altered exams. For some exams, like math, they no longer cover the content of the corresponding college course. Colleges have to reevaluate whether they can give credit for the AP test  taken this year, or whether students will need to take a crash course to make up the material that was never covered but needed in the subsequent class. It's a big mess.

That's my concern with this year's tests. As homeschoolers, our class wasn't messed up- they'll get the full year's material, but I doubt colleges would take that in consideration when deciding how to give credit. They won't be tested on a full year's course, so they can't prove that they deserve full credit. 

If they let kids pass having 2/3 of the material, it gives the impression that actual education never really mattered and it's all about the money and the tests. 

[athena1277]

14 hours ago, Paige said:

That's my concern with this year's tests. As homeschoolers, our class wasn't messed up- they'll get the full year's material, but I doubt colleges would take that in consideration when deciding how to give credit. They won't be tested on a full year's course, so they can't prove that they deserve full credit. 

If they let kids pass having 2/3 of the material, it gives the impression that actual education never really mattered and it's all about the money and the tests. 

That’s a really good point.  My dd’s class wasn’t interrupted at all.  I really hope colleges don’t change their acceptance of these tests for credit.  That would be a lot of work wasted.

Not taking the test isn’t something we are considering because at the college she wants to go to, they won’t take Clep credit for English comp, but if she score well enough on the AP test, she will get credit for 1 semester of comp and 1 semester of lit.

[Caroline]

20 hours ago, Paige said:

That’s not fair at all. Everything rides on 1 question? People who can BS well get an advantage over the analytical ones? My kids have AP tests and I wish the College Board would just offer a refund. This is not what we signed up for.
 

They have offered a full refund. As long as your student doesn’t sign into the test on either test date, the school where you were supposed to test will send you a refund. It might not be immediately because in most school systems no one, not even admin or bookkeepers are in the buildings, but there will be a full refund. 

My daughter is taking AP Latin as a junior.  It is her first AP exam.  I offered to let her not take the test, but we came to the agreement that we don’t have to have the money back and that it is only 45 minutes out of her life and she doesn’t even have to go anywhere so there isn’t any downside besides the cost of the test to try.  If she does well she can get a bunch of credits she really doesn’t need at one school and the others either require or offer a placement test or will accept an SAT subject test.  I think we have no way of knowing how it will be graded or accepted, but if you don’t take it there will be no chance of it counting.

[Roadrunner]

20 hours ago, Paige said:

People who can BS well get an advantage over the analytical ones?
 

This makes no sense to me. 
 

And yes, you can get a refund. No problem.

[EKS]

My son is going to take the exams, and if he doesn't pass, he doesn't pass.

[Paige]

17 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

This makes no sense to me. 
 

And yes, you can get a refund. No problem.

Some people can write a decent essay just because they are good writers with enough background info. They are BS experts and I don't think the AP scorers will be any less influenced by good writing with some good points than other people are. Maybe they won't get a 5, but they'll get a 3. You can't BS with multiple choice- you have to know.

Some people are awesome at multiple choice questions. They know the correct answer because they know the material cold, but perhaps they aren't great writers. Their scores under the normal format would be balanced. 

Some people would be fine under normal circumstances but the fact that there's only one question will make their anxiety take over. 

I'm going to ask my kids if they want to do it. One will probably decide to take the test because he's awesome at essays. The other, I'm not sure.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Paige said:

Some people can write a decent essay just because they are good writers with enough background info. They are BS experts and I don't think the AP scorers will be any less influenced by good writing with some good points than other people are. Maybe they won't get a 5, but they'll get a 3. You can't BS with multiple choice- you have to know.

Some people are awesome at multiple choice questions. They know the correct answer because they know the material cold, but perhaps they aren't great writers. Their scores under the normal format would be balanced. 

Some people would be fine under normal circumstances but the fact that there's only one question will make their anxiety take over. 

I'm going to ask my kids if they want to do it. One will probably decide to take the test because he's awesome at essays. The other, I'm not sure.

Math and science APs are going to be tough for anybody who doesn’t know material cold, because there is little time to sit and think. My understanding is humanities APs are less about style and more about content, so hopefully your concerns are misplaced. I understand that some people do better on MCQs and some do better on FRQs but given that these tests are supposed to measure college level skills, ability to put together a coherent essay is probably a better gauge than checking a multiple choice box. 

[TarynB]

For those whose kids will be taking the exam, does this statement from the College Board concern you? If not, why not?

Quote

Students Who Violate Exam Security Will Receive Consequences

• Students whose responses mirror online content or other students’ submissions will have their scores canceled.
• Students sharing or receiving exam content or exam responses, or engaging in any plans or efforts to provide or gain an unfair advantage, will be blocked from testing or their AP scores will be cancelled. This includes communications or assistance in-person, via the Internet, social media, or any other means.
• If we determine that a student gained or provided an unfair advantage on an AP Exam, we’ll notify their high school so the school can choose to take necessary disciplinary action, as appropriate. We’ll also provide information about the incident to colleges or other organizations to which the student has already sent any College Board scores (including SAT scores)—or to which the student would send scores in the future.
• Students who attempt to gain an unfair advantage also may be prohibited from taking a future Advanced Placement Exam as well as the SAT, SAT Subject Tests, or CLEP assessments.
• Under certain circumstances, College Board may inform law enforcement of any incident to determine if prosecution of the test taker, or anyone assisting the test taker in misconduct, is warranted.

https://apcoronavirusupdates.collegeboard.org/students/taking-ap-exams/security

Bolding by me. My son is scheduled to take Calc AB. On the calculus exams especially, and conceivably in other subjects too, of course a student's answers will look like other students' answers. That's the nature of the subject; there's only one correct answer. My son would have a lot to lose (scholarship $) if he were to be accused of cheating, and there's no way to defend yourself and prove you didn't. Same as others accused of cheating on the ACT in the past couple of years, which was in the news for a while.

Am I worried about nothing?

Edited April 18, 2020 by TarynB
Added link to quoted material

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Paige said:

Some people can write a decent essay just because they are good writers with enough background info. They are BS experts and I don't think the AP scorers will be any less influenced by good writing with some good points than other people are. Maybe they won't get a 5, but they'll get a 3. You can't BS with multiple choice- you have to know.

Some people are awesome at multiple choice questions. They know the correct answer because they know the material cold, but perhaps they aren't great writers. Their scores under the normal format would be balanced. 

Some people would be fine under normal circumstances but the fact that there's only one question will make their anxiety take over. 

I'm going to ask my kids if they want to do it. One will probably decide to take the test because he's awesome at essays. The other, I'm not sure.

The last is why I'm thinking DD won't do it. She's a good writer, she knows the material, but one question determining whether she gets college credit or not, when she's already extremely anxious and stressed just doesn't seem worth it when she already has college credits that would likely be redundant-and this year, might actually be better received. 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, TarynB said:

For those whose kids will be taking the exam, does this statement from the College Board concern you? If not, why not?

https://apcoronavirusupdates.collegeboard.org/students/taking-ap-exams/security

Bolding by me. My son is scheduled to take Calc AB. On the calculus exams especially, and conceivably in other subjects too, of course a student's answers will look like other students' answers. That's the nature of the subject; there's only one correct answer. My son would have a lot to lose (scholarship $) if he were to be accused of cheating, and there's no way to defend yourself and prove you didn't. Same as others accused of cheating on the ACT in the past couple of years, which was in the news for a while.

Am I worried about nothing?

I think that especially online, it would be really hard to prove you DIDN'T cheat, unless they do the live webcam proctoring. Especially if you go for the 2nd test date, where there is likely to be lots of information about what the one question for the first test date looked like. 

[TarynB]

On 4/18/2020 at 2:55 PM, dmmetler said:

I think that especially online, it would be really hard to prove you DIDN'T cheat, unless they do the live webcam proctoring. Especially if you go for the 2nd test date, where there is likely to be lots of information about what the one question for the first test date looked like. 

I agree. And the AP exams this year are not going to have live webcam proctoring, right? At least that's my understanding. I wish they were.

[regentrude]

On 4/18/2020 at 11:09 AM, Paige said:

Some people can write a decent essay just because they are good writers with enough background info. They are BS experts and I don't think the AP scorers will be any less influenced by good writing with some good points than other people are. Maybe they won't get a 5, but they'll get a 3. You can't BS with multiple choice- you have to know.

Some people are awesome at multiple choice questions. They know the correct answer because they know the material cold, but perhaps they aren't great writers. Their scores under the normal format would be balanced. 

But isn't the entire point of this to learn how to write? I'd think writing a good essay is the only relevant thing, because all knowledge of rules and being great at gaming the multiple choice format is, in the end, completely irrelevant for the skill that the corresponding class would be teaching. I have always been puzzled how a multiple choice exam can give credit for a writing based class. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by regentrude

[Paige]

37 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But isn't the entire point of this to learn how to write? I'd think writing a good essay is the only relevant thing, because all knowledge of rules and being great at gaming the multiple choice format is, in the end, completely irrelevant for the skill that the corresponding class would be teaching. I have always been puzzled how a multiple choice exam can give credit for a writing based class. 

Not all AP tests are for exclusively writing based classes? AP History and Human Geography for example- are a combo of writing, analysis, and facts. But that's not really the point. Having graded college essays from actual upper class college students and not high school prospects myself, I can 100% say that plenty of students are terrible writers, so the writing bar must not be high to pass an intro college class. I'm sure you have seen what I'm talking about. I really don't know how some kids made it into school or past freshman year.

My point is that some students are good writers even without much knowledge and can pull a good essay out of anything. If all they need is to answer one question, they'll be fine; artificially high. Assuming they have attended the class, the essay would be adequate. Other students shine at multiple choice; they can write and will probably do a decent essay, but their multiple choice would have allowed them to show off more. Multiple choice questions measure more content variety. There's no way a test with a few essay or free response questions can covers the same amount of details as a bunch of multiple choice. There's not enough time to have essays about everything. 

 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Paige said:

Not all AP tests are for exclusively writing based classes?

No, but the OP is specifically talking about AP Lang/Lit.