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Travel by Car to Another State? (Family Death)


Jenny in Florida
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Funerals in most states cannot accommodate more than 10 people. Unless there are no other family members in the area who can attend or support the bereaved, travel is inadvisable. People can, obv. do it anyway but the idea that travel is totally safe b/c the air on an airplane makes it's way through a HEPA filter at some point in its life cycle is ridiculous.

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So sorry for the loss.

Just a thought: perhaps wait 2 months before traveling to be with his brother? That would most likely be after the limitations for the virus have been lifted, but more importantly, it would be a time when people suffering the death of a loved actually need more support. The natural process at the time of a sudden unexpected death is grief, yes, but also a sort of numbness. It is not until several months later when the strong emotions start returning -- which is also about the time other people have stopped checking in on the survivor. Also, that might be far enough out from the event that the survivor would feel able to start going through personal effects and deal with the less immediate paperwork -- if he could go out then, he would be able to be a real, tangible help to his brother. Maybe you both could go then to help? And until then, he can support through daily video chat. Again, just a thought.

Edited by Lori D.
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31 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

JUST STOP ALREADY. Stop trying to convince people to do things that you, yourself, are not willing to do/in the process of doing. It's crass and craven.

 

27 minutes ago, meena said:

What are you saying I'm not willing to do? If it's air travel, no I'm not currently because I don't have a reason to. If I did, I would make a calculated decision about what would be the best option both in protecting others and those in my proximity.

I didn't quite get that, either. Mostly bc I didn't see anything that indicated you were trying to convince other people to do anything. 

23 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Funerals in most states cannot accommodate more than 10 people. Unless there are no other family members in the area who can attend or support the bereaved, travel is inadvisable. People can, obv. do it anyway but the idea that travel is totally safe b/c the air on an airplane makes it's way through a HEPA filter at some point in its life cycle is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone said that air travel was totally safe. I remember posts stating that it's not ridiculously UNsafe, and posts saying it was probably safer than a grocery store, but I don't remember any saying it was totally safe. Of course, I also don't remember why I stepped into the other room 5 minutes ago, so there's that. 

12 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Just a thought: perhaps wait 2 months before traveling to be with his brother? That would most likely be after the limitations for the virus have been lifted 

I think this is an extremely optimistic viewpoint. I mean, I hope it's right, but I don't think most limitations are going to be lifted by mid-June. 

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If he has to quarantine when he gets there he will not be much comfort for his brother for a while.   Really he shouldn't do it.  If he does a camper full of food with toilet facilities seems best and he can use it to isolate in when he gets there.

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30 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Funerals in most states cannot accommodate more than 10 people. Unless there are no other family members in the area who can attend or support the bereaved, travel is inadvisable. People can, obv. do it anyway but the idea that travel is totally safe b/c the air on an airplane makes it's way through a HEPA filter at some point in its life cycle is ridiculous.

I never once said that air travel is totally safe. I only said that *for this situation* car vs. plane, plane seemed the better choice. And I stated why I thought that. And I linked several articles that backed up what I was saying so that it didn't come out, like "Oh hey, don't listen to those crazies, this virus is a hoax, so go fly where ever you want, for whatever reason". I stated precautions I would take on a flight, including wiping things down, sitting as far away from others as possible, not eating or drinking, not touching anything unless absolutely necessary. Would I say those things if I thought flying was totally safe? No. There are risks inherent in anything we do that is not done in isolation.

I also stated in my first post that Jenny and her husband should consider if he had any underlying risks should he get sick from travel, that he should self-isolate for the proper time period upon returning home to eliminate community spread should he pick something up while he has traveled. I also made my answer based on the fact that he has been staying at home for the proper amount of time so isn't likely to be an asymptomatic carrier. I wouldn't say any of those things if I was trying to communicate that flying is totally safe.

ETA: I assumed that states aren't allowing funeral gatherings. I thought that only next of kin type relations were allowed to go, so I was assuming Jenny's husband would be assisting his brother with arrangements and emotional support but not going to a funeral service. I didn't communicate those assumptions, so I apologize if I came across as supporting a mass gathering for services.

Edited by meena
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21 minutes ago, katilac said:

I didn't quite get that, either. Mostly bc I didn't see anything that indicated you were trying to convince other people to do anything. 

I don't think anyone said that air travel was totally safe. I remember posts stating that it's not ridiculously UNsafe, and posts saying it was probably safer than a grocery store, but I don't remember any saying it was totally safe. Of course, I also don't remember why I stepped into the other room 5 minutes ago, so there's that. 

I think this is an extremely optimistic viewpoint. I mean, I hope it's right, but I don't think most limitations are going to be lifted by mid-June. 

 

20 minutes ago, meena said:

I never once said that air travel is totally safe. I only said that *for this situation* car vs. plane, plane seemed the better choice.


You cannot read the posts I quoted and fail to see the promotion of interstate travel by land or air. The question of actual necessity wasn’t touched, really, and that should be of utmost concern.  Has the brother asked for or suggested he needed help? Is other family, nearby, unavailable? What alternatives to travel are there? I was available day and night, 24/7 when my BFF’s dad died in February. FWIW, There’s a global pandemic underway. 

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I think it would be a great kindness to the original poster whose family has suffered a great personal loss if the discussion on this thread were to stick to caring condolences and helping her with the logistical information she requested.

There's a time and place for other discussion, but maybe another thread would be better. 

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1 hour ago, meena said:

That is a concern for someone with anxiety. However, that doesn't make it "risky" for what I thought we were mostly discussing, which was viral transmission. For that, I think I'd rather be on an airplane with a HEPA filter recirculating air than in a grocery store where there is no/little filtration.

That is you deciding not to fly. There's nothing wrong with that. But to say that there is no riskier place than in an airplane cabin doesn't stand up to facts. It's the same when people refuse to fly for other reasons. That is their choice. But it's not right to tell everyone there is nothing riskier than flying, when statistically it's safer than many activities people regularly engage in. It's no secret that driving/riding in a car is much more dangerous than flying. It's just that we have the notion that our control over driving keeps us safer. Common sense says don't fly for leisure right now. That isn't what this thread is about.

 

For a crash? Airline flight normally is less actual risk. 

For a virus? My own vehicle is less risk than a plane.   And if no grocery stops were needed because all food went along and mask and hand cover were used for gas, and sleep were done in vehicle, then it would be down to risk from toilet pit stops.   Which would also be a risk in airports and on planes—maybe not as often, but maybe as much aerosol from other people using public bathrooms.  

For virus, I think it is very unclear whether plane plus rental car beats own car.

However having to go extra far due to closed borders is a potential significant defect for the own car approach. It might mean more than the expected 32 hours would be needed. 

Edited by Pen
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3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

You cannot read the posts I quoted and fail to see the promotion of interstate travel by land or air. The question of actual necessity wasn’t touched, really, and that should be of utmost concern.  Has the brother asked for or suggested he needed help? Is other family, nearby, unavailable? What alternatives to travel are there? I was available day and night, 24/7 when my BFF’s dad died in February. FWIW, There’s a global pandemic underway. 

I, and others, promoted travel *for this specific instance* based on reading Jenny's posts and the actual question she asked. She mentioned obliquely why her husband has decided to go. We are randoms on the internet, though, so I don't expect her to give me more detailed information on why she and her husband are choosing something. I trust, based on what Jenny has posted here in this thread as well as her many posts over the years, that she is a thoughtful, level-headed person who isn't making the decision lightly to support her husband. She knows him and this situation fully; I don't, you don't.

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4 minutes ago, Pippen said:

I think it would be a great kindness to the original poster whose family has suffered a great personal loss if the discussion on this thread were to stick to caring condolences and helping her with the logistical information she requested.

There's a time and place for other discussion, but maybe another thread would be better. 

You are right. I apologize and won't post anymore. My condolences to your family Jenny.

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54 minutes ago, kiwik said:

If he has to quarantine when he gets there he will not be much comfort for his brother for a while.   Really he shouldn't do it.  If he does a camper full of food with toilet facilities seems best and he can use it to isolate in when he gets there.

 

That Sounds like a really good idea!

Renting an equipped camper and driving that (after thorough cleaning of course) brings likely risk down to only gas stations, and mask and gloves (or even tissue or Saran Wrap to touch things with at gas station ) ought to be pretty good protection.  Sleep could be Contained within camper as could toilet activities, meals... almost everything. 

 

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4 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I would strongly attempt to talk him out of the trip Jenny.

 

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

However, even the most prudent of people sometimes make errors, especially during high emotion times. 

He may better be able to keep himself and his brother as allies to each other by not going.  Going puts both brothers (and others too presumably) at increased risk compared to giving long distance support and help as able. 

 

Again, I am not going to try to sway him one way or the other. I would not appreciate him doing so if the shoe were on the other foot, and I have to respect his right to make his own decision, in consultation with his brother. 

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

 Traveling for a funeral now will only result in more funerals.  I'd sit tight until it's over.  I can't imagine what he could do on-site that would be worth the risk to all concerned.

 

It's not about being there for the funeral. It's about being present for his brother. I'm not going to defend the details of this situation. 

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I would encourage flying. Having traveled that route myself, I would encourage your Dh to travel with a spare full gas can and a cooler of food. West of San Antonio, after you get off of I-10 it is pretty sparse. I would not take the route up through Carlsbad and over in current conditions. I would consider driving farther but on better traveled roads. 

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Not the same thing, but just in terms of crossing state lines, I do so every week. I volunteer in a food pantry kitchen and then after my shift I pop into a Trader Joe’s 3 minutes drive away which happens to be in a different state. And DH drove down to philly early in pandemic days to deliver a box of supplies to my sister who both she and DH are front liners with 4 kids at home. It was fine but 1. Only Wendy’s was open for food and 2. Some gas stations were closed at night when he returned. 

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9 hours ago, regentrude said:

The Executive Order says travelers "from any area with substantial community spread" are required to quarantine for two weeks. Does FL have community spread? If so, going would be pointless.

I would not fly as that's the surest way to pick up and spread contagion. If I had to go, I would drive, sleep in the woods, and only stop for gas as to minimize contact with civilzation.

Where is he going to stay when he gets there? Will he be able to isolate a relative's house? Because, even if he was home now for weeks, as soon as he has contact with anything while traveling, he has to be considered potentially infectious.

Yes, Florida has community spread. My county, Orange County, has over 1K cases. 

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Ok, so logistics wise, he needs to discuss with brother the issue of isolating himself after flying, being in the airport, etc. I know we've had TSA workers who have tested positive at the Orlando airport. Would brother want him to isolate after being on a plane? Does brother have children, who would be put at risk of becoming orphans if your DH is exposed enroute and then passes the virus to his brother? If brother has kids, they have already lost their mother, so the idea of putting their father at risk must be judged carefully, and decisions made about if they want your DH to stay with them, stay separately and visit but outdoors, visit but wear a mask, not worry about it? 

Also, he then has the return trip. He will have been on two planes, in two airports, multiple public restrooms, at his brother's house in another state, etc. Do you have the logistical ability to isolate yourself from him when he gets home? For two weeks? I have no idea if your medical history puts you at higher risk, but it is something to discuss with him, how you would handle his "re-entry" as it were. 

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