Thoughts on summer / fall

[cabercro]

1 hour ago, ElizabethB said:

They could work on it!  Most students are on a general academic track...I was with most of the same students in Chemistry, Calculus, Advanced English, ETC. They could try to block certain kids already together in similar classes.  With today's computing power, they could set up class schedules to limit the mixing...although then they would have challenges with moving to different classes, they might have to have longer breaks between classes and stagger moving between classes. So, you take all the kids in Chemisty and Calculus and put them in the same electives, but the computer figures out the best mix with the least amount of children mixing between classes.

 

Also, if the main goal is to get students into the building to provide care, food, and protection, I could also see a situation where kids are doing "remote learning" in a school building. Like in my middle school setting, I could see my homeroom class coming to me and staying in my room all day. Each teacher continues to provide online work and I am there to proctor/tutor as needed. At least then kids would have some structure, be able to focus on academics (instead of taking care of younger siblings, etc.), equitable access to technology, food and a college educated person in the room to help. And if that's the main goal, then yeah, there are probably enough adults in the building (between aides, elective teachers, etc) that we could assign each adult a small group of 10-15 kids with a dedicated space to work. Especially if we could subdivide the large spaces (gym, cafeteria, media center, etc.). Buses would be the other big problem, but other than very rural or magnet school situations, buses routes might could sacrifice efficiency and transport class groups together. Or class groups could be made based partially on where kids live.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

Students here aren't allowed to use chemicals outside of a science lab. 

 

🙂

So who is going to tell the geniuses who decided that what H20, Oxygen, etc are? Sigh. 

1 hour ago, cabercro said:

 

Also, if the main goal is to get students into the building to provide care, food, and protection, I could also see a situation where kids are doing "remote learning" in a school building. Like in my middle school setting, I could see my homeroom class coming to me and staying in my room all day. Each teacher continues to provide online work and I am there to proctor/tutor as needed. At least then kids would have some structure, be able to focus on academics (instead of taking care of younger siblings, etc.), equitable access to technology, food and a college educated person in the room to help. And if that's the main goal, then yeah, there are probably enough adults in the building (between aides, elective teachers, etc) that we could assign each adult a small group of 10-15 kids with a dedicated space to work. Especially if we could subdivide the large spaces (gym, cafeteria, media center, etc.). Buses would be the other big problem, but other than very rural or magnet school situations, buses routes might could sacrifice efficiency and transport class groups together. Or class groups could be made based partially on where kids live.

That's not a bad idea. Here we already have so many kids taking virtual classes that they have study halls where the kids can do exactly that. They use the school computers and internet and have an adult in the room to ask for help if need be. 

[Terabith]

I'm really torn on what to do in the fall.  Our school district is in the middle of looking for a new superintendent, so I don't have a lot of faith that they are working currently on plans for the fall. And, while I can imagine ways to make elementary school reasonably pandemic friendly (reducing class sizes, frequent hand washing, keeping classes entirely to themselves and not really interacting outside of their bubble), I cannot imagine a way to make a two thousand student high school safe, at least not without major structural changes, that I STRONGLY suspect are not going to happen.  I....really don't feel comfortable sending my kid into that situation. But, on the other hand, she really, really wants to go. And crucially, if I pull her out of school to homeschool....that's it. She can't go back. Ever. And homeschooling unwilling teens against their will is not really my idea of fun. And unlike eldest child, community college is not going to be a good fit, at least not for a few years. I don't know what to do.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I'm really torn on what to do in the fall.  Our school district is in the middle of looking for a new superintendent, so I don't have a lot of faith that they are working currently on plans for the fall. And, while I can imagine ways to make elementary school reasonably pandemic friendly (reducing class sizes, frequent hand washing, keeping classes entirely to themselves and not really interacting outside of their bubble), I cannot imagine a way to make a two thousand student high school safe, at least not without major structural changes, that I STRONGLY suspect are not going to happen.  I....really don't feel comfortable sending my kid into that situation. But, on the other hand, she really, really wants to go. And crucially, if I pull her out of school to homeschool....that's it. She can't go back. Ever. And homeschooling unwilling teens against their will is not really my idea of fun. And unlike eldest child, community college is not going to be a good fit, at least not for a few years. I don't know what to do.

Does your state have a virtual option, that would be still considered private school so she can go back later? Or virtual dual enrollment? So college classes but at home?

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I'm really torn on what to do in the fall.  Our school district is in the middle of looking for a new superintendent, so I don't have a lot of faith that they are working currently on plans for the fall. And, while I can imagine ways to make elementary school reasonably pandemic friendly (reducing class sizes, frequent hand washing, keeping classes entirely to themselves and not really interacting outside of their bubble), I cannot imagine a way to make a two thousand student high school safe, at least not without major structural changes, that I STRONGLY suspect are not going to happen.  I....really don't feel comfortable sending my kid into that situation. But, on the other hand, she really, really wants to go. And crucially, if I pull her out of school to homeschool....that's it. She can't go back. Ever. And homeschooling unwilling teens against their will is not really my idea of fun. And unlike eldest child, community college is not going to be a good fit, at least not for a few years. I don't know what to do.

 

20 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Does your state have a virtual option, that would be still considered private school so she can go back later?

 

 

ktgrok posted exactly what I was thinking 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, cabercro said:

 

Also, if the main goal is to get students into the building to provide care, food, and protection, I could also see a situation where kids are doing "remote learning" in a school building. Like in my middle school setting, I could see my homeroom class coming to me and staying in my room all day. Each teacher continues to provide online work and I am there to proctor/tutor as needed. At least then kids would have some structure, be able to focus on academics (instead of taking care of younger siblings, etc.), equitable access to technology, food and a college educated person in the room to help. And if that's the main goal, then yeah, there are probably enough adults in the building (between aides, elective teachers, etc) that we could assign each adult a small group of 10-15 kids with a dedicated space to work. Especially if we could subdivide the large spaces (gym, cafeteria, media center, etc.). Buses would be the other big problem, but other than very rural or magnet school situations, buses routes might could sacrifice efficiency and transport class groups together. Or class groups could be made based partially on where kids live.

 

That is basically what is happening where we are.  Kids who need daytime care are doing virtual learning at a school building the rest are doing it from home

Edited April 21, 2020 by Pen

[Terabith]

56 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Does your state have a virtual option, that would be still considered private school so she can go back later? Or virtual dual enrollment? So college classes but at home?

Yes....but our district isn't eligible for it, last I checked.  And she's dyslexic and on the spectrum.  To take college classes, you have to pass both English and math placement tests.  It'll probably be three years before she's able to do that, I think.  Plus, she's barely managing virtual middle school classes without daily peer/ teacher effect.  There's no way she could handle dual enrollment classes online.  My older one with really good executive functioning who had a 96 average or higher in all her classes before they went virtual is really struggling since they went online.  

[mommyoffive]

The first California university to cancel in person classes for fall.   I wonder if this will be the start of colleges doing this for fall?
https://www.ocregister.com/2020/04/2...al-classrooms/

[MEmama]

34 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

The first California university to cancel in person classes for fall.   I wonder if this will be the start of colleges doing this for fall?
https://www.ocregister.com/2020/04/2...al-classrooms/

All of my son's friends who are seniors this year are assuming they won’t be going away to college in the fall. It’s heartbreaking. 😞 

[mommyoffive]

12 minutes ago, MEmama said:

All of my son's friends who are seniors this year are assuming they won’t be going away to college in the fall. It’s heartbreaking. 😞 

 

It is.  I think I feel for seniors in high school the most in all this.  First they lose out on the fun senior year.  Prom, graduation, spring sports, concerts, plays.  And they might end up losing going away to college. 

[CAJinBE]

Which school was it? I can't read the link. It seems more and more sites are being blocked to Europe.

[Kassia]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

 

It is.  I think I feel for seniors in high school the most in all this.  First they lose out on the fun senior year.  Prom, graduation, spring sports, concerts, plays.  And they might end up losing going away to college. 

 

My daughter is a senior and we've been so upset - it's been disappointment after disappointment.  We do assume she won't be on campus in the fall.  But I feel even worse for college seniors and juniors right now because they are having job and internship offers rescinded, and I can't imagine what it's like trying to enter the job market right now.  It's hard on so many people on so many levels.  😞

[Selkie]

26 minutes ago, CAJinBE said:

Which school was it? I can't read the link. It seems more and more sites are being blocked to Europe.

It's Cal State Fullerton. The link doesn't work for me, either, and I'm in the US.

[mommyoffive]

Does this work better?

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/21/839623300/cal-state-fullerton-announces-plans-for-a-virtual-fall-will-other-colleges-follo

[Arcadia]

10 hours ago, CAJinBE said:

Which school was it? I can't read the link. It seems more and more sites are being blocked to Europe.

 

9 hours ago, Selkie said:

It's Cal State Fullerton. The link doesn't work for me, either, and I'm in the US.

“The campus will look much different at that time, he said. Masks, gloves and other protective gear will be required or highly encouraged. Workplaces and classrooms will be configured based on social distancing, and faculty and staff may be required to work on a rotation or staggered hours or days, he said” https://www.ocregister.com/2020/04/20/cal-state-fullerton-announces-plans-to-start-fall-semester-with-virtual-classrooms/

[Arcadia]

Below article is written from a work from home point of view but it similarly affects my teens whose in person classes become Zoom classes.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200421-why-zoom-video-chats-are-so-exhausting
“Silence is another challenge, he adds. “Silence creates a natural rhythm in a real-life conversation. However, when it happens in a video call, you became anxious about the technology.” It also makes people uncomfortable. One 2014 study by German academics showed that delays on phone or conferencing systems shaped our views of people negatively: even delays of 1.2 seconds made people perceive the responder as less friendly or focused.

An added factor, says Shuffler, is that if we are physically on camera, we are very aware of being watched. “When you're on a video conference, you know everybody's looking at you; you are on stage, so there comes the social pressure and feeling like you need to perform. Being performative is nerve-wracking and more stressful.” It’s also very hard for people not to look at their own face if they can see it on screen, or not to be conscious of how they behave in front of the camera.

How are the current circumstances contributing? 

Yet if video chats come with extra stressors, our Zoom fatigue can’t be attributed solely to that. Our current circumstances – whether lockdown, quarantine, working from home or otherwise – are also feeding in.

Petriglieri believes that fact we feel forced into these calls may be a contributory factor. “The video call is our reminder of the people we have lost temporarily. It is the distress that every time you see someone online, such as your colleagues, that reminds you we should really be in the workplace together,” he says. “What I'm finding is, we’re all exhausted; It doesn't matter whether they are introverts or extroverts. We are experiencing the same disruption of the familiar context during the pandemic.”

Then there’s the fact that aspects of our lives that used to be separate – work, friends, family – are all now happening in the same space. The self-complexity theory posits that individuals have multiple aspects – context-dependent social roles, relationships, activities and goals – and we find the variety healthy, says Petriglieri. When these aspects are reduced, we become more vulnerable to negative feelings.

“Most of our social roles happen in different places, but now the context has collapsed,” says Petriglieri. “Imagine if you go to a bar, and in the same bar you talk with your professors, meet your parents or date someone, isn’t it weird? That's what we're doing now… We are confined in our own space, in the context of a very anxiety-provoking crisis, and our only space for interaction is a computer window.”

Shuffler says a lack of downtime after we’ve fulfilled work and family commitments may be another factor in our tiredness, while some of us may be putting higher expectations on ourselves due to worries over the economy, furloughs and job losses. “There's also that heightened sense of ‘I need to be performing at my top level in a situation’… Some of us are kind of over-performing to secure our jobs.””

[Matryoshka]

On 4/20/2020 at 4:58 PM, Sneezyone said:

There was a story today about a man losing his leg b/c his blood thinners were causing internal bleeding, also COVID related.

Yeah, he lost his leg due to blood clots caused by Covid. They put him on blood thinners to clear the clots, but the blood thinners were causing internal bleeding, so then they had to amputate.  Healthy 41yo, also happens to be a Tony award nominated Broadway actor w/ a 10-month old kid.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/19/entertainment/nick-cordero-coronavirus-leg-amputation-trnd/index.html

Edited April 23, 2020 by Matryoshka

[CAJinBE]

The Dutch schools where my daughters attend haven't said anything yet about fall, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't also stay online. My daughters have been handling it well, but I think hearing that news now would make it even harder for them to concentrate on their zoom classes. Two hour classes in things like anatomy have already been cut down to one hour due to the difficulties in keeping focus. One dd was supposed to have a bio-chem lab in the fall, too. 

[Carrie12345]

I overheard the beginning of dd’s online cc class last night. Her teacher is also an advisor. He says they’ve been having meetings about the fall, and they do not yet know what the outcome will be.  What struck me was that he made it sound as if they’re looking to follow whatever the area K-12s will be doing. Not that I’m against coordinating, but it felt kind of odd that K-12 would dictate what college would do.  Though some of the teachers may need it, the college students certainly don’t need daycare (for themselves), which is a big factor in the decisions K-12 will make. It’s intertwined and yet... much different.

On the bright side, they’ve extended DE qualification/price into the first summer semester (online). On the dark side, I wasn’t exactly planning to pay for summer DE, lol. But it’ll give dd something to focus on and take care of a class she has no desire to take in person for a full semester.

Her fall plan has been to live rent-free at a firehouse near the main campus. Ours is a satellite that doesn’t carry most of her major-specific courses. I do think that option will still be available to her at a later date, but she certainly doesn’t want the delay.

[vonfirmath]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I overheard the beginning of dd’s online cc class last night. Her teacher is also an advisor. He says they’ve been having meetings about the fall, and they do not yet know what the outcome will be.  What struck me was that he made it sound as if they’re looking to follow whatever the area K-12s will be doing. Not that I’m against coordinating, but it felt kind of odd that K-12 would dictate what college would do.  Though some of the teachers may need it, the college students certainly don’t need daycare (for themselves), which is a big factor in the decisions K-12 will make. It’s intertwined and yet... much different.

 

 

Does your community College have a lot of commuter students? I know we needed daycare when my husband was in school (for our son) because I was also working full time.

Austin posted an article about the fall. (obviously no decisions yet)

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/texas-school-districts-discuss-fall-return-strategies-amid-covid-19-outbreak?fbclid=IwAR1IIa2ZUoDEI1JXNIDB5s1kcSGgLWLNAA2KfHF0Agn0xdxUanhHEDS1HKI

[Random]

7 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Yeah, he lost his leg due to blood clots caused by Covid. They put him on blood thinners to clear the clots, but the blood thinners were causing internal bleeding, so then they had to amputate.  Healthy 41yo, also happens to be a Tony award nominated Broadway actor w/ a 10-month old kid.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/19/entertainment/nick-cordero-coronavirus-leg-amputation-trnd/index.html

 

I understand that there are several blood clotting issues related to Covid, however the article doesn't say whether Covid caused the reaction.  In my family, we have a tendency towards HIT, which means if we are given Heparin products, we will likely die or need an amputation.   He may not have lost his leg due to Covid.  He may have lost it because he was "HIT."    Not that it makes his life any different.  Just FYI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heparin-induced_thrombocytopenia

[rjand6more]

DD is a senior.  She has taken all of this  really well.  She was supposed to do early start in July at her university.  The call on that will be May 15th.  We are not hopeful it will be on campus.  She is sad, but ok so far.  We got an email/video from the school president yesterday saying that although there will be changes to campus experience in the fall(only small groups<10, masks,tracing,quarantine when necessary) they plan on moving in for fall.

[Kanin]

I heard that some colleges around here do not want to have online classes in the fall. If they have to delay, they would start the fall semester in October. Or, if that isn't safe, cancel the fall semester altogether and have spring and summer semesters. That seems better to me... college is about so much more than just the classes.... clubs, teams, eating in the dining hall, learning to live independently, exploring the college town, etc. that online classes just don't compare. 

 

[MEmama]

33 minutes ago, Mainer said:

I heard that some colleges around here do not want to have online classes in the fall. If they have to delay, they would start the fall semester in October. Or, if that isn't safe, cancel the fall semester altogether and have spring and summer semesters. That seems better to me... college is about so much more than just the classes.... clubs, teams, eating in the dining hall, learning to live independently, exploring the college town, etc. that online classes just don't compare. 

 

Wow! I hadn’t heard this. The three liberal arts schools or UMaine also, do you know?
 

[Arcadia]

5 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

.  What struck me was that he made it sound as if they’re looking to follow whatever the area K-12s will be doing. Not that I’m against coordinating, but it felt kind of odd that K-12 would dictate what college would do.  Though some of the teachers may need it, the college students certainly don’t need daycare (for themselves), which is a big factor in the decisions K-12 will make. It’s intertwined and yet... much different.

We have early college programs in my region where high school kids are full time at community college.

[mom2scouts]

5 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I overheard the beginning of dd’s online cc class last night. Her teacher is also an advisor. He says they’ve been having meetings about the fall, and they do not yet know what the outcome will be.  What struck me was that he made it sound as if they’re looking to follow whatever the area K-12s will be doing. Not that I’m against coordinating, but it felt kind of odd that K-12 would dictate what college would do.  Though some of the teachers may need it, the college students certainly don’t need daycare (for themselves), which is a big factor in the decisions K-12 will make. It’s intertwined and yet... much different.

On the bright side, they’ve extended DE qualification/price into the first summer semester (online). On the dark side, I wasn’t exactly planning to pay for summer DE, lol. But it’ll give dd something to focus on and take care of a class she has no desire to take in person for a full semester.

Her fall plan has been to live rent-free at a firehouse near the main campus. Ours is a satellite that doesn’t carry most of her major-specific courses. I do think that option will still be available to her at a later date, but she certainly doesn’t want the delay.

I live in a University town. The local K-12 schools closely follow the university schedule because the community and university are so closely related. Professors and students, especially graduate students and international students, often have children in the local schools. I know that most people think of college students as single young adults and professors as old people, but there's a significant portion of college students and university staff who do neeed daycare or schools. In fact, the university runs a daycare for students and professors and uses it as a learning lab for education/early childhood majors.

If students don't come back in the fall, it will be devastating for small businesses in our community. The university is the largest employer in the entire county. We usually have a large population of international students, especially from China.  The university returned $4 million in room and board. Sports that make money may not happen. Without students and with a struggling university, lots of people are going to lose their jobs.

[73349]

19 hours ago, Kassia said:

But I feel even worse for college seniors and juniors right now because they are having job and internship offers rescinded, and I can't imagine what it's like trying to enter the job market right now.  It's hard on so many people on so many levels.  😞

Yeah, I know somebody who just finished an MFA. Brilliant, dedicated, a delightful person. No employment prospects in her field. I cannot even fathom how much her education and instrument must have cost. But as long as she stays healthy, she should be back on track in the near future.

[alisoncooks]

42 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

If students don't come back in the fall, it will be devastating for small businesses in our community. 

I'm also in a university town. Our local downtown/campus area is notorious for its high rent/small business turnover. I've been wondering just what will be left when the dust clears...even the businesses that have survived for decades need student business to remain. 

[Kanin]

5 hours ago, MEmama said:

Wow! I hadn’t heard this. The three liberal arts schools or UMaine also, do you know?
 

The liberal arts schools. Not sure about UMaine.

[mommyoffive]

I was reading the news paper and it had a picture of a work place in South Korea that had plastic put out on tables in the lunch room so everyone was eating in their own little cube.  Seemed like that could be done in schools for lunch and maybe desks or tables if the rooms have that. 

[MEmama]

3 hours ago, Mainer said:

The liberal arts schools. Not sure about UMaine.

Thanks.

[Arcadia]

SJSU

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Coronavirus-and-college-San-Jose-State-plans-to-15218878.php

“San Jose State University Provost Vincent Del Casino articulated what many college students feared was inevitable: a fall semester conducted mostly, if not entirely, online.

Del Casino, in a phone interview Wednesday with The Chronicle, disclosed his school’s plans for the start of the 2020-21 academic year, scheduled to begin Aug. 17. San Jose State will offer nearly all of its classes online, given the anticipated need to continue social distancing in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

...

San Jose State doesn’t plan to reduce tuition for the fall semester, even with nearly all classes staying online.

“The educational cost of online is not any less expensive than delivering education face-to-face,” Del Casino said. “The majority of cost is in faculty. If you look at big schools’ tuition models, they’re not radically different online versus face-to-face.

“In addition, we have some core costs and the support services we provide for students. You have to do more advising when you go fully online. The challenge is how you build in the connection and sense of community.”

San Jose State, with tuition and fees for 2020-21 at $7,852 according to the school website, is relatively affordable (for California residents) compared with most four-year schools. But it also serves more international students than any of the 22 other Cal State campuses, and those students — who pay much higher tuition — might be reluctant to embrace online instruction.

“That’s one of the risks of all this,” Del Casino said. “No doubt students might take gap years. We believe the Cal State system is such a strong value, we might attract people who decide not to leave the state.””

 

[mom2scouts]

I wonder if colleges may be making a mistake by charging the same tuition for online classes as live classes. They are already going to be hurting for students as they will lose international students, high school students who will now be taking a gap year, students whose families lose jobs and can no longer afford college, and people from far away who don't feel safe living in dorms. Those who need science labs, art and design studios,  and other physical facilities won't bother to come. Lots of students who might otherwise attend college won't be willing to pay full price for classes moved online and colleges are going to need any student they can get.

[SKL]

If the fall semester approaches and folks still have no clear idea what school will be like, I wonder if that will motivate some people to at least temporarily switch to homeschooling.  I don't think online school is a good option for my kids at this age - I think they would learn more if I was at the helm.  I don't want to homeschool, but might decide to if the alternative was not working for us.

[Plateau Mama]

i don't think most college could afford to cancel classes altogether.  I know my daughters college desperatly needs to have students on campus.  They are a research school.  All of their money is made from research.  Not having students on campus to do that research is costing them dearly.  Along that same lines schools can't afford to lower tuition for online classes either.  Their costs are pretty much the same if they are online or on campus.  Yes heat, electricity ect is cheaper but the cost to be online is higher too.  They also have to continue maintaining dorms and buildings that no one is paying for.  Plus it sets a precident.  If you charge less for online classes now then going forward the expectation is online classes will be cheaper.