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Michigan on tighter restrictions and people are NOT happy


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I felt guilty going out for sewing supplies, but we are sewing masks. I got most of what we needed at Joanne's with curbside pick up but did end up going into walmart to see if they had a few things that no one has online. I felt like maybe I shouldn't, as I am making what we have work, but I combined it with getting the groceries I can only get there (everything else we do delivery for) so technically not an extra trip. And they are limiting people but there was no line, so was able to stay away from everyone, and do self check out. 

I'm really annoyed with the policitians saying Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy are essential. Some parents are not able to get out and get that stuff, and were probably planning to use stay in place to explain it. Now their kids heard otherwise, so ?

Stay out of it, politicians!

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36 minutes ago, kand said:

I read your PM, and FWIW, I don’t think his language would be any problem here.  Not in that post at least. What he’s claiming would likely be a problem for a majority of people though. 

You mentioned initially that your trip to Walmart was to get craft supplies for your kids. I love craft supplies as much as the next person, but that would be an example of something considered unnecessary.

The majority of people also believed Bernanke when he said subprime was contained, this guy knew it wasn't. He also knew that WaMu was toast. He's very good at looking at numbers and recognizing patterns, I've followed his work since 2007. I trust him.

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I know it doesn’t apply to everyone, but I just can’t see how if I’m already at Walmart, with my $300 cart of groceries that zigging over to grab a mouse or head phones is a problem.  I’m not more at risk, the checker isn’t more at risk. The store would be open anyway. I would be there anyways because my fridge is small and going less than once every 7-9 days isn’t possible.  I’m just walking 20 feet past the needed TP.  Sure, someone might be waiting outside, but it’s only a few extra minutes.  
 

I could order it online, but that isn’t neutral either.  The amazon warehouse people. The fed ex guy, they are involved in that order, And it’s risking them unnecessarily because I was already at Walmart and could have gotten it there.  
 

I’mALL for staying home.  I go out once a week for groceries and no one else leaves my house.  But if we start trying to make the suffering worse than it HAS to be, without clear benefit, you’re going to lose buy in, even from supporters.  

And I’m MAD at all the people that are hanging out at Walmart all day because they are bored too.  This is why we can’t have nice things! 

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I don’t think this will last just a month for any state. I sure do genuinely love being wrong tho. I think anything less than 3 months needs to be lauded as a huge success. 

It’s going to be hard. And it’s going to be necessary. And we will all cope with it bc eventually it will become apparent that coping with lockdown only right thing to do. 

And when lockdown eventually ends, yes many things might be changed permanently. Some for the better and some not. And we can fight those battles when we get to that point. My advice is to focus on waging one war at a time. Right now, the common enemy is Covid19.  We are better if we unite against that, than be distracted by division over what the political scenery will be 6 months from now. 

Very few things can’t wait 3-4 months when all you do is stay home. 

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3 hours ago, QueenCat said:

Humans choosing to get unnecessary things at crowded stores are humans that are saying they don't care if more people die. 

I get where you're coming from, but a smart person once told me to always ask myself, "Are you trying to make a point, or are you trying to make a difference?" 

You made a point, but you likely didn't make a difference (didn't change anyone's mind about what they need/when they should shop). When you make people feel defensive, it's very hard for them to hear what you say/ 

2 hours ago, kiwik said:

Going to work and being with other people is a risk in itself.   

Yes, but they are already going to work and being with other people. 

7 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t think this will last just a month for any state. I sure do genuinely love being wrong tho. 

I hope you're wrong but I think you're right. 

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5 hours ago, kiwik said:

But for all you know they are sorting out some sort of arrangement for farmers right now.  Here farmers would be buying essentials from a farm supply place but you have a different system.  Things change and just because right now there isn't provision doesn't mean there won't be next week.

 

Here where we are USA farmers get most of their supplies from farm supply places also.  Usually at better prices for larger quantities.  

I believe the people saying farmers in their area use a big box store, but it certainly isn’t universal in USA. 

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6 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I felt guilty going out for sewing supplies, but we are sewing masks. I got most of what we needed at Joanne's with curbside pick up but did end up going into walmart to see if they had a few things that no one has online. I felt like maybe I shouldn't, as I am making what we have work, but I combined it with getting the groceries I can only get there (everything else we do delivery for) so technically not an extra trip. And they are limiting people but there was no line, so was able to stay away from everyone, and do self check out. 

I'm really annoyed with the policitians saying Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy are essential. Some parents are not able to get out and get that stuff, and were probably planning to use stay in place to explain it. Now their kids heard otherwise, so ?

Stay out of it, politicians!

Ours did but she also said the Easter bunny might not make it to all places and issued a colouring page.  The kids have had their lives turned upside down, they miss their friends and are scared.  They need some seasonal pleasure even if it an Easter egg hunt spotting the coloured eggs on letter boxes.  But most people I know that means buying an egg with the groceries not a whole Easter basket set up like a lot of people on this forum do so it is not that difficult.

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6 hours ago, Cnew02 said:

I know it doesn’t apply to everyone, but I just can’t see how if I’m already at Walmart, with my $300 cart of groceries that zigging over to grab a mouse or head phones is a problem.  I’m not more at risk, the checker isn’t more at risk. The store would be open anyway. I would be there anyways because my fridge is small and going less than once every 7-9 days isn’t possible.  I’m just walking 20 feet past the needed TP.  Sure, someone might be waiting outside, but it’s only a few extra minutes.  
 

I could order it online, but that isn’t neutral either.  The amazon warehouse people. The fed ex guy, they are involved in that order, And it’s risking them unnecessarily because I was already at Walmart and could have gotten it there.  
 

I’mALL for staying home.  I go out once a week for groceries and no one else leaves my house.  But if we start trying to make the suffering worse than it HAS to be, without clear benefit, you’re going to lose buy in, even from supporters.  

And I’m MAD at all the people that are hanging out at Walmart all day because they are bored too.  This is why we can’t have nice things! 

That is true it wouldn't.  But what about the people who buy their groceries somewhere else and then go to target for some headphones?  Now they have made two stops and interacted with 2 groups of people.  I suppose you could say only people buying all their groceries could buy other stuff but would the Walmart staff be willing or able to enforce that?  I don't know each place will do it differently and we will look back later and decide whether it was right.

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10 hours ago, Janeway said:

The line I was in two days ago had employees with no marks just inches from me. I would like to hear about you all's definition of need.  Because in the spring, there is all sorts of maintenance to be done to homes that if left ignored can lead to all sorts of extensive repairs being needed as well. 

I don't know your situation.

For me, if water was threatening to pour across my kitchen imminently, I might need a spare part. But if my exterior window paintwork was cracked, and repainting now would be easier than repairing damage later, in the current pandemic I would delay repainting in order to avoid endangering others during the buying of materials.

A more personal example. I have finally got my blood work healthy, partly by eating porridge and drinking oatmilk. I can only get limited oatmilk each time I go to the shop, but I don't make special trips to get more. Because each time I go, I endanger others.

For now, in the UK, we can buy food and medications only in person.

For queuing, my brother gave me a tip. Pick up a shopping cart in the carpark. Stand two metres behind the person in front. Put your cart behind you to block others from coming close.

Edited by Laura Corin
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IMO stores should all be closed except for curbside pick ups or delivery.

This would allow people to get necessary supplies and protect store workers by minimizing their exposure to crowds.

Being lax about this will extend the crisis and get more people sick and more people killed.

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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On 4/10/2020 at 11:54 AM, Cecropia said:

Anyone else feeling a little nervous that their own governor will be inspired to roll out similar restrictions?  I'm seriously tempted to run out and grab the soil and mulch we need within the next few days instead of waiting.

Dh made a funny joke - maybe they're gradually moving toward shutting down all the hardware store type supplies, because everyone is going to try and tackle those long-waiting home improvement projects, hurt themselves, and need to go to the hospital... Let's ban the sale of power tools, stepladders, box cutters...

That is not even just a joke.  Apparently there is a spike in burns victims here with all the people trying to cook at home.  

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25 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

IMO stores should all be closed except for curbside pick ups or delivery.

This would allow people to get necessary supplies and protect store workers by minimizing their exposure to crowds.

There aren't enough workers to pull that off. 

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OP the number of deaths in MI is staggering for a state with <10 million population.  What caused that? I read that the majority of the deaths are in the Detroit area in S.E. MI.  One of my theories is that Covid-19 is in the air, everywhere and that's a main method of it spreading now, among other methods.   Be careful and Shelter in Place!

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6 hours ago, Spy Car said:

IMO stores should all be closed except for curbside pick ups or delivery.

This would allow people to get necessary supplies and protect store workers by minimizing their exposure to crowds.

Being lax about this will extend the crisis and get more people sick and more people killed.

Bill

 

Well Bill, down here in Colombia, approximately 30 days ago, my wife tried to order a bunch of things from the small supermarket attached to the pharmacy where we have been customers for years. They do fine with deliveries from the Pharmacy, but...   Someone took her order and then nothing happened. We would have tipped the delivery person quite well, well enough for him to come to our house in a taxi if necessary. In the end, we just gave up, after 1 or 2 days of nothing happening. As someone else posted, I believe below your post, it is incredibly time intensive for a supermarket to have someone selecting the items that a customer wants to pick up or have delivered to their home. Here, one person can go to the supermarket, on a designated day. My Stepson is doing that for us now and his day just changed, from Saturday to Tuesday, which is much better. 

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14 minutes ago, Lanny said:

Here, one person can go to the supermarket, on a designated day. My Stepson is doing that for us now and his day just changed, from Saturday to Tuesday, which is much better. 

This is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, this is where our lack of a national ID comes back to bite us in the butt. There isn't a standard identification that everyone in the US or even each state carries so we can't easily institute rotations by last digit of your ID number. We generally use our Social Security number as an identifier but the SocSec card doesn't have a picture. Our driver's license/state ID numbers are a hodge podge and not everyone has one anyway. It's such a simple thing, but that simple thing makes the whole situation so much more complicated. 

I've done designated days by cedula number in Venezuela and it works remarkably well even in massively dysfunctional societies. It's such an easy solution to the crowding problem but there's no simple substitute for it in the US.

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43 minutes ago, Lanny said:

 

Well Bill, down here in Colombia, approximately 30 days ago, my wife tried to order a bunch of things from the small supermarket attached to the pharmacy where we have been customers for years. They do fine with deliveries from the Pharmacy, but...   Someone took her order and then nothing happened. We would have tipped the delivery person quite well, well enough for him to come to our house in a taxi if necessary. In the end, we just gave up, after 1 or 2 days of nothing happening. As someone else posted, I believe below your post, it is incredibly time intensive for a supermarket to have someone selecting the items that a customer wants to pick up or have delivered to their home. Here, one person can go to the supermarket, on a designated day. My Stepson is doing that for us now and his day just changed, from Saturday to Tuesday, which is much better. 

You've highlighted the problem, Lanny.

If there is no curbside pick-up (doesn't need to be delivery) available then people will go into stores themselves. That's a problem.

We need to break the spread of this virus. That means not taking these sorts of risks. Store employees are at particular risk if thousands of shoppers come through markets and stores, which puts those people at risk and makes them vectors for further spreading this disease.

We need to get serious in stopping the contagion, in my estimation. In-store marketing is a very bad idea at the moment from my perspective.

Bill

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lanny said:

OP the number of deaths in MI is staggering for a state with <10 million population.  What caused that? I read that the majority of the deaths are in the Detroit area in S.E. MI.  One of my theories is that Covid-19 is in the air, everywhere and that's a main method of it spreading now, among other methods.   Be careful and Shelter in Place!

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/04/michigan-is-doing-the-right-things-on-coronavirus-so-why-is-the-caseload-so-high.html

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17 hours ago, Janeway said:

What is unneccesary though? What if our child needs a computer or paper to do their work? Or clothes? When this all started, it was still rather cold in many places. A lot of people need clothes for the hotter weather. Penney's carries appliances too. Hobby Lobby carried fabric. Who decides what people really need and not? Because merely existing is not enough and quality of life is affected beyond the value of quantity for some. And now, the very few stores that are being allowed to stay open, all big business owned ones, are overcrowded and probably causing more infection rather than less.

 

All of that can be ordered online and delivered to you. 

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1 hour ago, Lanny said:

 

Well Bill, down here in Colombia, approximately 30 days ago, my wife tried to order a bunch of things from the small supermarket attached to the pharmacy where we have been customers for years. They do fine with deliveries from the Pharmacy, but...   Someone took her order and then nothing happened. We would have tipped the delivery person quite well, well enough for him to come to our house in a taxi if necessary. In the end, we just gave up, after 1 or 2 days of nothing happening. As someone else posted, I believe below your post, it is incredibly time intensive for a supermarket to have someone selecting the items that a customer wants to pick up or have delivered to their home. Here, one person can go to the supermarket, on a designated day. My Stepson is doing that for us now and his day just changed, from Saturday to Tuesday, which is much better. 

One idea that I just discovered is being done by Morrison’s (a large U.K. grocery chain) is you order a box of food where you specify meat or vegetarian .......you pay £30 for the box and £5 delivery.  You have no control over what they pack for you but a variety of food will be delivered at a pretty reasonable rate.  The delivery slots are much quicker for the boxes too.  

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6 minutes ago, KatieinMich said:

 

The thing that I struggle with is that it is not necessarily accurate to compare MI to OH. We have SO few tests. I have a friend who has been to the ER twice with presumed COVID and they still haven't tested her. They are only using tests for the very sick.  So our numbers are IMO artificially low. 

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7 hours ago, katilac said:

There aren't enough workers to pull that off. 

 

A surmountable problem during a period of high unemployment if you ask me.

Either we take this seriously or disease and death will follow.

Bill

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24 minutes ago, cintinative said:

 

The thing that I struggle with is that it is not necessarily accurate to compare MI to OH. We have SO few tests. I have a friend who has been to the ER twice with presumed COVID and they still haven't tested her. They are only using tests for the very sick.  So our numbers are IMO artificially low. 

I am not an expert but we don’t have enough test kits either. My neighbors daughter is an ambulance driver with a 6 month old and a 13 year old. Single gal. She had symptoms and was refused testing, just  stay home.

My thoughts are that  everyone’s numbers are artificially low, and that contributes to the spread. I have no answers, just prayers for those are having to make these decisions as well as the front line workers and their support staff. 

I have read articles on not comparing Oh to Mi as well. 

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19 hours ago, katilac said:

They are doing curbside delivery, which is quite low-risk imo. Somebody please chime in if I'm wrong. 

 

 

The problem lays in the employee is handling items that could be infected and spreading the virus to people picking things up.  The more exposure one person has, the more likely they will get sick. The products in the store aren't sterile, they have been handled by many employees to get to the shelf.  Also the employee themselves could be shedding the virus and giving it to the customer.  With curbside pick up, the delivery person is still meeting up with the customer. I work in pharmacy, and have to deliver medication to people's cars. I feel it is a much better plan than having them come inside, but I am still interacting with the patient. They are still handling the same bag and paperwork that was in the pharmacy a few hours prior. Some patients tell us to throw it in their backseat, which is fine, but I still have to talk to the person to verify who they are and what I am giving them. I still have to be within a couple of feet from them. Even if they don't go inside, every time someone goes out to pick up a curbside order, they increase their risk and the employees risk. 

A bit off the quoted topic....I am well versed in sterile technique due to my daughter's health condition. Due to this, I am hypersensitive to watching how people handle themselves while masked/gloved up. The vast majority of people I see out with a mask/gloves on, are contaminating everything they touch by the way they touch their face, phone and items. A masks reduces new airborne particulates, but not the ones already there or being spread by hands. My daughter sees the same thing. Especially with gloves people have a weird sense of protection. They are touching phones, shopping carts, conveyor belts,  purses, wallets, typing in PIN numbers, door handles, etc with the same gloves. It is an odd thing to watch. 

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Here in Belgium you can only go out to shop for food or medicine at the pharmacy. Essential workers can go to work. They do a lot of curbside pickup at the grocery stores and additional help is being hired from the workforce of nonessential business. I'm not sure how the financial arrangement is worked out exactly between the businesses involved. You have to wait outside the store two meters apart, only one person per family. We can't drive to exercise or visit anyone with the exception of helping someone in need. Basically nothing is open to go to anyway. Garden stores are still open but only for soil and seed type things, not tools. Garden stores also sell pet food and farm animal food. We will hear on Wednesday if any of the restrictions are eased after April 19th. 

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According to worldommeters, the average number of tests per million people in the US is 7752. Michigan has tested 7235 per million, and a Ohio has tested 5031. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Editing to add, looks like Ohio is the 7th lowest in testing per million right now.

Edited by livetoread
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9 hours ago, katilac said:

There aren't enough workers to pull that off. 

Many stores here are hiring people for that exact purpose, because the only way non-essential businesses can stay open is via curbside pick up or delivery. For delivery, it's usually to your porch, and you don't have any contact with the person delivering. For curbside pick up, it's usually to the trunk. Most pharmacies are using intercom systems or having customers phone in, and then delivering without contact as well. ID checks can be done via video, and through closed car windows. We had local regulations before the state put an order in place, and it's likely that we'll keep them longer, so I guess stores had time to adjust. It's still a loss for a lot of people, but it's better than it could be. I do think the fact that Fred Smith pretty much runs the local economy might have helped here-we have a lot of local folks who specialize in distribution, logistics, and delivery.

Edited by dmmetler
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6 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

Many stores here are hiring people for that exact purpose 

Oh, here too, for sure, but it's a process and not something they can just switch to overnight. I haven't been able to book a grocery pick-up slot in about two weeks (something I did every few days in normal times). 

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11 hours ago, kiwik said:

That is true it wouldn't.  But what about the people who buy their groceries somewhere else and then go to target for some headphones?  Now they have made two stops and interacted with 2 groups of people.  I suppose you could say only people buying all their groceries could buy other stuff but would the Walmart staff be willing or able to enforce that?  I don't know each place will do it differently and we will look back later and decide whether it was right.

What about kids in school who need head phones? We NEEDED headphones the other day or school lessons had to come to an end. Specifically, I needed sound cancelling head phones for my child with ASD. Also, once at the store (Target), an employee would not stop hovering over me and he even touched my cell phone when I tried to double check the location. In the lines to check out at the grocery (Kroger), the employees were checking out at registers next to each other, and those registers are so crowded that this literallly leaves you bumping in to the cashier at the next register. One cashier to the next had to be less than 6 feet apart. It was nuts. 

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3 minutes ago, Janeway said:

What about kids in school who need head phones? We NEEDED headphones the other day or school lessons had to come to an end. Specifically, I needed sound cancelling head phones for my child with ASD. Also, once at the store (Target), an employee would not stop hovering over me and he even touched my cell phone when I tried to double check the location. In the lines to check out at the grocery (Kroger), the employees were checking out at registers next to each other, and those registers are so crowded that this literallly leaves you bumping in to the cashier at the next register. One cashier to the next had to be less than 6 feet apart. It was nuts. 

This is the complete opposite of what I've seen at multiple stores I've been to since this stay at home start. Stores in question, 2 different Acmes, Food Lion, Walmart, Home Depot, and Rite Aid. All opened registers were staggered, employees stayed a distance. But plenty of customers would go right up to an employee to ask a question and many of those customers wearing masks would take it off to talk.  Customers touching items and putting them back, reaching for grocery bags that worker was trying to put down causing them to touch hands. People going the wrong way down the isles. It has been very fascinating to see how terrible people are about it.

It has made me decide to only do online grocery pickup once every two weeks now. The only reason I did so much shopping recently was because one day I couldn't find a medicine I needed for my mom.

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In reviewing the actual order the local AG are exempt and operating with small numbers of customers, so Feed and Seed and such are open. The limitations on sales are for large stores based on square footage so my local hardware is operating as usual for all items within those same restrictions.  They all have to limit the number of customers.  

On the flip side we’ll probably have to shop for groceries now, which we have done curbside for, because they’ll no longer fill a $200 order, which is small for a family of seven.

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I am amazed at how lax the "Shelter in Place" (Stay at home) requirements in MI were. Possibly that accounts for the very high death toll there?     I am still curious why so many of the deaths were in the Detroit metropolitan area. Possibly that is where the majority of the people live and is natural consequence of that's where the people live?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-stay-at-home-order-now-bans-visits-to-friends-relatives-governor-says

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3 hours ago, Tap said:

The problem lays in the employee is handling items that could be infected and spreading the virus to people picking things up.  The more exposure one person has, the more likely they will get sick. The products in the store aren't sterile, they have been handled by many employees to get to the shelf.  Also the employee themselves could be shedding the virus and giving it to the customer.  With curbside pick up, the delivery person is still meeting up with the customer. I work in pharmacy, and have to deliver medication to people's cars. I feel it is a much better plan than having them come inside, but I am still interacting with the patient. They are still handling the same bag and paperwork that was in the pharmacy a few hours prior. Some patients tell us to throw it in their backseat, which is fine, but I still have to talk to the person to verify who they are and what I am giving them. I still have to be within a couple of feet from them. Even if they don't go inside, every time someone goes out to pick up a curbside order, they increase their risk and the employees risk. 

A bit off the quoted topic....I am well versed in sterile technique due to my daughter's health condition. Due to this, I am hypersensitive to watching how people handle themselves while masked/gloved up. The vast majority of people I see out with a mask/gloves on, are contaminating everything they touch by the way they touch their face, phone and items. A masks reduces new airborne particulates, but not the ones already there or being spread by hands. My daughter sees the same thing. Especially with gloves people have a weird sense of protection. They are touching phones, shopping carts, conveyor belts,  purses, wallets, typing in PIN numbers, door handles, etc with the same gloves. It is an odd thing to watch. 

Employees are less likely to get sick if they work in stores where they are not in contact with a steady stream of customers and where they practice "social distancing," hand washing, mask wearing, have their temperatures scanned, and are--hopefully soon--tested for the virus. Items from curbside deliveries should go directly into a boot or bed. Hatchback drivers should have a spot to retrieve their goods once an employee has placed them for retrieval.  

There is no reason for employees and customers to come into direct contact.

Good points on people cross contaminating their masks.

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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1 hour ago, Lanny said:

I am amazed at how lax the "Shelter in Place" (Stay at home) requirements in MI were. Possibly that accounts for the very high death toll there?     I am still curious why so many of the deaths were in the Detroit metropolitan area. Possibly that is where the majority of the people live and is natural consequence of that's where the people live?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-stay-at-home-order-now-bans-visits-to-friends-relatives-governor-says

Many in Detroit/Wayne County and even the outskirts were upset with the original order and the police were having to break up block parties and other ridiculous things because so many people had to voice their displeasure and disobedience.  That's where the $1,000 fines came in.  We have a large number of people, even now, in our area that don't believe it's real, the numbers are off, and it's all a government ploy, either against their rights, or against a political party.  Out of all the people I know, local family included, I was the only one to prepare ahead when the writing was on the wall.  I can rarely venture onto local FB pages anymore, because correcting the ignorance and conspiracy crap isn't worth it at this point.  The new restrictions are only fueling these beliefs.  Meanwhile our numbers continue to grow in my little neck of the woods, and we are only testing hospitalized patients in my county.  We only have 32 ICU beds for 160,000 people.  

Meanwhile we are totally isolated because there isn't anyone I can trust to be actually following the orders.  We get messages daily from DH's co-workers wanting to get together for various events.

Edited by melmichigan
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13 hours ago, Janeway said:

What about kids in school who need head phones? We NEEDED headphones the other day or school lessons had to come to an end. Specifically, I needed sound cancelling head phones for my child with ASD. Also, once at the store (Target), an employee would not stop hovering over me and he even touched my cell phone when I tried to double check the location. In the lines to check out at the grocery (Kroger), the employees were checking out at registers next to each other, and those registers are so crowded that this literallly leaves you bumping in to the cashier at the next register. One cashier to the next had to be less than 6 feet apart. It was nuts. 

Then they need to do better.  I went shopping at the supermarket yesterday.  We lined up outside on marks 2 m apart (sorry Laura but we aren't allowed trolleys in the line because they haven't been sanitised yet).  When someone leaves the first person in line is called in, directed to sanitise their hands and given a trolley where the handle etc have just been sanitised.  People are asked to shop as efficiently as possible, keepin 2 m from other shoppers and only touching things they are going to purchase.  Everyone waits politely for their turn to get things.  At the checkouts only every second is open to maintain separation and in some places there are screens between the checkout operators and the customers.  At the chemist you tell someone at the door what you need or you pay over the phone and they deliver.  The delivery guy called from my letterboc thenput it on my drive them waited several metres away while I picked it up and checked it

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Here in South Africa we are halfway through a 5 week lockdown. 

You can leave the house to go to the supermarket for food and general groceries and medicine.  We were in a drugstore yesterday and they are able to sell hair care products, but not hair driers for example.  

At every shop entrance there is a person spraying hand sanitizer on shopper's hands.  Workers are constantly washing down trollies and baskets.  Inside the shop we noticed that the assistants have switched from masks to face shields.  At first the message here was to save masks for essential workers, but last night the health minister advised everyone to start wearing masks when out.  Cars and busses are allowed half of their registered capacity.

It seems to be working to flatten the curve.  So far 25 deaths in a population of 60 million.  We are fortunate that testing for HIV and TB are already established, so now widespread Covid 19 testing is being rolled out, The scary bit is that they will be using cellphone technology to trace contacts of infected people.  That opens the door to law enforcement having access to these records going forward.

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On 4/10/2020 at 5:57 PM, kiwik said:

But really you don't.  You are staying at home 98% of the time at least.  If it is hot wear your underwear and a light top.  If it is cold put on what you have and if still cold wrap a blanket round your shoulders.  Be creative and use what you have.  Go out for groceries as infrequently as possible and if you do desperately need something (your washing machine dies or all your kids suddenly need their own devices) then order on line and accept it may take a few weeks.  I think part of the problem you are having is your groceries seem to come from places that sell a lot of other stuff.  Here supermarkets sell a little stationery, a few small appliances and a few packs of undies and socks but otherwise just groceries, cleaning stuff etc.

That is the kind of grocery my husband goes to and there have been no crowds at all.

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On 4/10/2020 at 6:01 PM, kiwik said:

We have marks 2 m apart.  Your house should not fall apart if you do not do stuff right now.  Need as in the UK is food and medicine.  Nothing else.  In NZ a few places have been allowed to open on line now to sell clothes, bedding (we are going into winter), and appliances.  But really people should be able to wait for most things and the shops are just trying to get round the restrictions for the most part.

This is not true at all.  In NZ, for most of your island areas, you do not have such extreme weather.  But I bet if you ask the people who live in the mountain areas where they get a lot of snow, they would explain how they do need to repair before a snow season.  Or here in the US, it can be before or after tornadoes, hurricanes, prepping for wildfires, floods, etc, etc, etc.

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Is it possible she's closing the garden centers through April but will open them in May/June. Is it even planting season in Michigan? I live much farther south and it's just now warm enough to put most of my plants out and I'll probably wait a few weeks for all but broccoli and cauliflower because it's still getting into the 40s. I think garden centers are necessary but I can understand thinking it is best to shut as much as possible down for 2-3 weeks to really allow as much of the virus as possible to fizzle out. 

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7 minutes ago, Paige said:

Is it possible she's closing the garden centers through April but will open them in May/June. Is it even planting season in Michigan? I live much farther south and it's just now warm enough to put most of my plants out and I'll probably wait a few weeks for all but broccoli and cauliflower because it's still getting into the 40s. I think garden centers are necessary but I can understand thinking it is best to shut as much as possible down for 2-3 weeks to really allow as much of the virus as possible to fizzle out. 

That is everyone's hope.  It is about time to plant peas, radishes, etc.  It is time to start the rest of the veggie plants inside....for planting in 4-6 weeks.

We are all hoping that by May we can do a phone in/call in order for curbside pick up.  Right now that is not allowed but hopefully will be in 2-3 weeks 

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40 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

This is not true at all.  In NZ, for most of your island areas, you do not have such extreme weather.  But I bet if you ask the people who live in the mountain areas where they get a lot of snow, they would explain how they do need to repair before a snow season.  Or here in the US, it can be before or after tornadoes, hurricanes, prepping for wildfires, floods, etc, etc, etc.


It is not true. If a tornado comes through that does damage, that’s something that can be dealt with when or if it happens.  There’s no preemptive house maintenance for tornados. Either you have a closet to hide in or you don’t. And if you don’t at this point, you can cope just like you have for however long before now.

If they have been coping without the repair until now what about now makes it more urgent?

Edited by Murphy101
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Update on the garden centers. 

Only those with 50,000 square feet will have restrictions. Smaller ones are or will be opening. 

She is trying to control crowds , families who bring the whole gang, who are hanging out in the big box stores.

 

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13 minutes ago, KatieinMich said:

She is trying to control crowds , families who bring the whole gang, who are hanging out in the big box stores.

Then why not just do that??? Our big stores like Walmart now have apps and lines and they count and separate/slow down everyone going in. They could EASILY stop people from using the stores to socialize and allow people to buy garden seeds. Nuts, most of the people I see congregating in stores are EMPLOYEES!!! 

Edited by PeterPan
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1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Then why not just do that??? Our big stores like Walmart now have apps and lines and they count and separate/slow down everyone going in. They could EASILY stop people from using the stores to socialize and allow people to buy garden seeds. Nuts, most of the people I see congregating in stores are EMPLOYEES!!! 

That is the discussion!

She did add restrictions for how many people in stores at a time, for those bigger stores. Furniture and paint is roped off..

Online ordering with deliver is available for Home Depot kind of stores. 

She encouraged any one who is in the high risk category to do curb side or delivery.

the problem with that is the elderly generally have smaller orders that shipt shoppers don’t want to fill and their delivery dates keep getting pushed back. 

 

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7 minutes ago, KatieinMich said:

That is the discussion!

She did add restrictions for how many people in stores at a time, for those bigger stores. Furniture and paint is roped off..

Online ordering with deliver is available for Home Depot kind of stores. 

She encouraged any one who is in the high risk category to do curb side or delivery.

the problem with that is the elderly generally have smaller orders that shipt shoppers don’t want to fill and their delivery dates keep getting pushed back. 

 

Thank you for the update.  Where did you find this?  Part of the frustration is trying to figure out what the restrictions really are.   The updates I read when the stay at home was extended were that Home Depot (for example) was to rope off paint, furniture, and garden with no curbside available for those items.  50,000+ Sq ft stores had set number limit and smaller stores could not exceed 25% of their Fire Marshall capacity.  Stores could curbside other stuff, but they were not allowed to sell any paint, furniture, or garden.   If it changed that is great, but I would like to see where these are listed.

Edited by Mom2mthj
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15 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

Thank you for the update.  Where did you find this?  Part of the frustration is trying to figure out what the restrictions really are.   The updates I read when the stay at home was extended were that Home Depot (for example) was to rope off paint, furniture, and garden with no curbside available for those items.  50,000+ Sq ft stores had set number limit and smaller stores could not exceed 25% of their Fire Marshall capacity.  Stores could curbside other stuff, but they were not allowed to sell any paint, furniture, or garden.   If it changed that is great, but I would like to see where these are listed.

Discussion from local businesses on Facebook pages. 

Two different paragraphs in the order. 

FF9DC6A5-385B-4A40-88DB-2240CC4BFF8D.png

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