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Michigan on tighter restrictions and people are NOT happy


Ottakee
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Today the governor tightened and extended the restrictions.  New ones include places like Target, Walmart, etc can not sell gardening supplies, flooring, paint, furniture, etc and all stores that normally sell those are closed.

One big thing that is frustrating people is that spring is here and gardening, starting plants, buying vegetable seeds, etc. needs to happen in the next month or the window might be gone.   She is not even allowing online ordering and drive up pick up of these things...either in a store, nursery, greenhouse, etc.

Landscapers and lawn care that work all outside and alone are not allowed at all. Construction has all stopped...including housing for people in great need....lower income and special needs apartments, etc 

I am very pro the stay home, stay safe orders.....but I am not sure the people of Michigan will go along with this beyond the end of April.

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17 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Wow. Not being able to do curbside pickup for those things is crazy. I guess some of it could still be delivered

Governor is not allowing places like greenhouses, nurseries, etc to do deliveries either.

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1 minute ago, Ottakee said:

Governor is not allowing places like greenhouses, nurseries, etc to do deliveries either.

I realize the numbers in Michigan are concerning, but I don't see how banning deliveries from a nursery, or even order & pickup, is going to have much if any impact in the rates of infection. You can do deliveries with less contact than grocery shopping. IMO, plants, seeds, and gardening materials should be considered "essential" in the same way food is — tomato seeds and pepper plants are closer to food than Jello and Twinkies, but people can still buy those. 😕 

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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I realize the numbers in Michigan are concerning, but I don't see how banning deliveries from a nursery, or even order & pickup, is going to have much if any impact in the rates of infection. You can do deliveries with less contact than grocery shopping. IMO, plants, seeds, and gardening materials should be considered "essential" in the same way food is — tomato seeds and pepper plants are closer to food than Jello and Twinkies, but people can still buy those. 😕 

EXACTLY.  That is what our agricultural people are saying.   Here should be some way to safely allow this.

I can legally drive through McDonald's for a big Mac and coke but not drive through a local greenhouse and pick up fruit and veggies plants and seeds.

Local growers also want to be able to just set out roadside stands but that was vetoed as well.

 

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Has the governor also banned things like electronics and toys in places like Walmart and target because those types of things are less essential than gardening stuff. 

I can understand flooring and paint being banned for in store purchase. But online pick-up, specifically when they bring it to your car should be allowed.

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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I realize the numbers in Michigan are concerning, but I don't see how banning deliveries from a nursery, or even order & pickup, is going to have much if any impact in the rates of infection. You can do deliveries with less contact than grocery shopping. IMO, plants, seeds, and gardening materials should be considered "essential" in the same way food is — tomato seeds and pepper plants are closer to food than Jello and Twinkies, but people can still buy those. 😕 

There is (finally productive) something going around on fb that says basically the same thing. Those gardening and construction things can be essential to a person's well-being, being productive is important to their mental health. I know it is for my dh. He works construction. If his hands are not busy because there is no work, then he falls into a deep depression. Dh was able to clear out the garden plot, prep it and plant in my absence (I'm still a state away). It was the first thing I reminded him of to start doing when I heard NM went on shelter-in-place. So far, so good. It doesn't make sense to say you can only buy fresh produce (especially if distribution becomes an issue), but you can't grow your own. 

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7 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

At a certain point these restrictions are going to get so ridiculous that the masses will decide enough is enough and just stop listening to all of it

I honestly think if the rules are this tight beyond May 1st that is exactly what will happen.  

I am VERY pro staying safe and I have dear friends in front line medical jobs but I think this is going too far.

I really feel for truck drivers as most rest areas are closed ....where are they supposed to stop, use the restroom, walk around a bit, or take a short rest??

Seems like those places would be far less germy than gas stations which are about the only other option.

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12 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

But how does it work if you order supplies from online suppliers. Like if I wanted to order fruit bushes and supplies from a place like stark Bros. 

I think you can do that....but not buy the exact same thing from the local farmers.

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3 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

I honestly think if the rules are this tight beyond May 1st that is exactly what will happen.  

I am VERY pro staying safe and I have dear friends in front line medical jobs but I think this is going too far.

I really feel for truck drivers as most rest areas are closed ....where are they supposed to stop, use the restroom, walk around a bit, or take a short rest??

Seems like those places would be far less germy than gas stations which are about the only other option.

Well locally places gas stations like Pilot are still open and those are really set up well for truckers. They have showers, fast food, gas, and in my experience are cleaner than many rest stops that aren't also welcome centers. This is my experience doing many many trip from DE to AL and back.

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12 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Has the governor also banned things like electronics and toys in places like Walmart and target because those types of things are less essential than gardening stuff. 

I can understand flooring and paint being banned for in store purchase. But online pick-up, specifically when they bring it to your car should be allowed.

 

Underdtood until a tree lands on a roof during a spring storm and one starts to figure out how to recover

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11 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Well locally places gas stations like Pilot are still open and those are really set up well for truckers. They have showers, fast food, gas, and in my experience are cleaner than many rest stops that aren't also welcome centers. This is my experience doing many many trip from DE to AL and back.

I wonder if they'll start to get overcrowded, though. I always see quite a few trucks at rest stops, now they'll all have to go to an open station. 

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3 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I only look at the numbers of my county and state, so I am not familiar with MI numbers, but even being pro-stay at home, this is nuts. We have never had a food garden, ever. Even we bought a few seeds, pots and soil from a nursery. We did not want online because we wanted someone local to talk to when we had no clue. Local nurseries are the best, even we knew that. So we called them, they helped us choose paid over the phone and we did curbside pickup which they loaded in the trunk. Even they know how to do it safe or customers will not come. They too want to survive this with their business intact. Perhaps people don't need flooring or paint, though even that is debatable, but not allowing people to pick up plants ?? That is a bit too much even for me. 

I'll agree.  I am super let's stay at home and never leave the house again, but seeds and gardening supplies, as well as local farmstands, where local farms and even personal gardens are going to be vital to keep the local food supply viable - instead of trucking food in from far away - that's like the opposite of what should be going on!  

And honestly, yeah, I've been thinking this is the time to finally get some yard projects done.  I don't want to go in to a Home Depot, but I sure would think it would be fine to order stuff online and have them load it into my trunk!  No contact, and helps business, keeps us more sane staying in the yard, win/win/win!

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16 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Well locally places gas stations like Pilot are still open and those are really set up well for truckers. They have showers, fast food, gas, and in my experience are cleaner than many rest stops that aren't also welcome centers. This is my experience doing many many trip from DE to AL and back.

Have you ever driven through the midwest? (Not being snarky. Some people haven't and it can be hard to imagine for someone who hasn't done it.) There are some long, lonely stretches out here. We drove all day/night from IA to FL last fall. We drove from IA to NV in one day this spring. I drive the night stretches. The gas stations that cater to truckers were full over night, but so were the rest stops. When they pull over to sleep for the night, I am sure they would like to use the restroom both before and after sleeping.

Truckers also have a very strict number of hours they can work. If they spent x number of hours per day in a dump or loading line on a given day, they only get y hours for driving, including any stops they make. If they have fewer places to stop, the places they can stop will be busier (slower) and more crowded.

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I don't think that people who don't grow food always understand how this works - like, they're imagining that people will miss being able to pick fresh tomatoes from their back yard, which is a bummer but not a big deal.  They don't understand that we were able to not buy groceries except for one trip to a little mom'n'pop market for almost a month (and we could have skipped that if we had needed to) because every summer I put 50+ quarts of green beans and many many quarts of other beans, peas, tomatoes, okra, corn, and berries in my freezer.  When combined with the 1/2 cow we buy and assorted other bulk purchases that I keep on hand, we were able to stay out of peoples' way and make donations when there was a shortage of food in the grocery store.  We have gone out very little but we considered going to the garden center to get our bulk seeds and tomato plants to be essential. 

I've seen several articles suggesting that, not surprisingly, viral load makes a big difference in whether people get sick from this mess.  Working outside seems like one of the safer things that one could do.  I'd actually understand doing something about all of the folks milling around window-shopping at lowes and Home Depot, but having pick-up or delivery of plants and seeds sounds like it would provide some mental health benefit and keep a sector of the economy going with minimal risk.  When we realized that we'd need to make 2 trips to pick up some needed supplies, we placed a Lowes order that was delivered today.  They aren't delivering plants, but the guys had masks, kept their distance, and seemed happy to be working.  The did it without needing a signature-  we paid ahead of time with a credit card and they snap a pic of the stuff sitting on the driveway to prove that it was delivered - so no contact outside of the store.  

Edited by ClemsonDana
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I am one of those super *not* happy.  We live in Oakland county and I am fine with the stay at home until the end of April, but that woman is just on a power trip in my opinion.  How can you possibly have a brain if you say gardening supplies are non essential in Michigan until the end of April?  But never fear, she did go on the news yesterday to declare the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy are essential workers in case you were concerned. 

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50 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

At a certain point these restrictions are going to get so ridiculous that the masses will decide enough is enough and just stop listening to all of it

 

Here in Ohio, there was a group of protesters outside of the statehouse during the governor's press conference.  They want things opened up again.  

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8 minutes ago, Quill said:

That’s extremely dumb. And I’m very pro-SAH. Gardening is more essential than much of what someone buys at a grocery store. 

That is a very unwise restriction. 

Yes it’s dumb, but not surprising given the source.  Don’t forget stores, greenhouses can’t sell what they are already growing even with curbside pickup, but restaurants still can do curbside delivery.  How is that any safer?  Amazon can deliver these supplies...great way to support business in your state.

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That seems spectacularly stupid. I just had a Home Depot delivery today and have more local gardening stuff coming in a few days. I feel safer having yard stuff delivered than I do getting take out food (which we've only done a very few times). 

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34 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

I am one of those super *not* happy.  We live in Oakland county and I am fine with the stay at home until the end of April, but that woman is just on a power trip in my opinion.  How can you possibly have a brain if you say gardening supplies are non essential in Michigan until the end of April?  But never fear, she did go on the news yesterday to declare the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy are essential workers in case you were concerned. 

I missed the Easter Bunny thing....but the gardening thing.

Part of it is for food.  Part of it honestly is for me to give my daughter something positive to do outside.  She loves to plant and tend plants and flowers.  She might not be overly successful at her endeavors but it is awesome for her mental health and general health.

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42 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

Have you ever driven through the midwest? (Not being snarky. Some people haven't and it can be hard to imagine for someone who hasn't done it.) There are some long, lonely stretches out here. We drove all day/night from IA to FL last fall. We drove from IA to NV in one day this spring. I drive the night stretches. The gas stations that cater to truckers were full over night, but so were the rest stops. When they pull over to sleep for the night, I am sure they would like to use the restroom both before and after sleeping.

Truckers also have a very strict number of hours they can work. If they spent x number of hours per day in a dump or loading line on a given day, they only get y hours for driving, including any stops they make. If they have fewer places to stop, the places they can stop will be busier (slower) and more crowded.

THIS is so true.....Michigan has very long stretches with no big truck stops.  This is especially true in northern Michigan and the Upper Peninsula.  

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4 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

THIS is so true.....Michigan has very long stretches with no big truck stops.  This is especially true in northern Michigan and the Upper Peninsula.  

The UP has long stretches with NOTHING, no truck stops, no restaurants, no grocery stores.  Northern Michigan has very long stretches of nothing but trees as well.  Al the more reason to allow people to buy plants to grow food.  I don’t get the impression that the UP is really on her radar very often.

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22 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

I missed the Easter Bunny thing....but the gardening thing.

Part of it is for food.  Part of it honestly is for me to give my daughter something positive to do outside.  She loves to plant and tend plants and flowers.  She might not be overly successful at her endeavors but it is awesome for her mental health and general health.

I really do support the stay at home order until the end of April, but she just isn’t showing much common sense.  I think she just wants to look tough.  The lack of concern for the implications of her actions is going to sabotage what she says going forward.  Instead of tightening the screws on everyone in a majority rural state she should have sent help to Detroit to break up the huge number of backyard parties/basketball games/etc that must be tanking the effectiveness of the order and helped the Detroit police department deal with the rise in homicides that has already started in the city since they have had 20% of the police force quarantined (including the chief) from a huge community pancake breakfast on March 6.  Her general attitude has me worried that she hasn’t planned any sort of exit strategy.  If she doesn’t have plans to ease restrictions at the end of April, my biggest concern is looting at the increasingly large number of shuttered stores in the area.  Detroit is in a precarious spot in the bankruptcy recovery - things improving, but not widespread- and the city is still filled with many, many people whom the recovery has passed over already in desperate situations that are only getting worse.  Add in warmer weather, too much time, no jobs and things could get very bad, very quickly.

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1 hour ago, vonfirmath said:

 

Underdtood until a tree lands on a roof during a spring storm and one starts to figure out how to recover

 

Just thinking that. We had a minor house fire today due to a tree falling a few houses away and causing a chain of events that ended with a fire at our house. It’s minor in some terms but is going to require a lot of work.  (We’re all safe and have somewhere else to go (a relative’s house).)

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3 minutes ago, Alice said:

 

Just thinking that. We had a minor house fire today due to a tree falling a few houses away and causing a chain of events that ended with a fire at our house. It’s minor in some terms but is going to require a lot of work.  (We’re all safe and have somewhere else to go (a relative’s house).)

Glad you are safe.  They are allowing emergency repairs....but not sure if restoration companies, etc can work or not. 

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43 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

The UP has long stretches with NOTHING, no truck stops, no restaurants, no grocery stores.  Northern Michigan has very long stretches of nothing but trees as well.  Al the more reason to allow people to buy plants to grow food.  I don’t get the impression that the UP is really on her radar very often.

Having grown up in the UP, I can tell you the UP hasn’t been on too many MI politicians in a very long time.

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ebay or amazon for seeds/plants.  (or even burpee for seeds)  I did go to HD for lilies.

working in one's own yard, should be permitted.  But then, I have a large yard.  I'm also in one of the first states/places to lock-down.

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Oh dear, this is not good.  I have a good friend in Michigan whose daughter is ADHD, has food sensitivities as well as a host of mental health issues.  Up until now, it has been very therapeutic for her to be outside working in her yard, not to mention the fact that raising her own food is a necessity to keep food allergy reactions minimized.  I can't imagine what this is going to do to her!  

 I think in the end there will be more problems as this pandemic slows related to mental health for Americans, simply because we are being too restricted.  I am all for SAH, but not allowing a person to garden in their own yard by not being able to buy needed supplies is ludicrous. Gardening is so therapeutic and much needed at this time, not to mention a necessity for those with dietary restrictions or allergies to sprays, corn, wheat, dairy etc. 

I have seen other crazy restrictions as well.  I live in rural America with a lake in front of me and a national forest in the area.  I'm thinking with food shortages, what a great time to let the kids go out and fish (adults too). This would allow a way for kids to get some fresh air and exercise and  give them something to do outside (as well as a much needed break from too much closeness!)  Nope, we have been told fishing is closed. Ummm, you can't get much further from each other when you are out fishing!    And as far as hiking, I understand some places have been super busy, but my area is usually not. On a busy day, I have seen 3 people on the trail including me.   I went to get a quick walk the other day, and there was a closed sign on the board. 

I just feel we need to use common sense for each area, city, or state.  Increased mental health issues, weight gain from sitting  around the house, increased domestic violence, etc. are going to cause more problems as a result from restrictions that have not been thought out very well during this time! 

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Anyone else feeling a little nervous that their own governor will be inspired to roll out similar restrictions?  I'm seriously tempted to run out and grab the soil and mulch we need within the next few days instead of waiting.

Dh made a funny joke - maybe they're gradually moving toward shutting down all the hardware store type supplies, because everyone is going to try and tackle those long-waiting home improvement projects, hurt themselves, and need to go to the hospital... Let's ban the sale of power tools, stepladders, box cutters...

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2 hours ago, Alice said:

 

Just thinking that. We had a minor house fire today due to a tree falling a few houses away and causing a chain of events that ended with a fire at our house. It’s minor in some terms but is going to require a lot of work.  (We’re all safe and have somewhere else to go (a relative’s house).)

 

Yes. Our tree did NOT land on our roof. But only by the grace of God. We have nowhere else to go local and I don't think hotels are open anymore either.

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4 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Even being pro-stay at home, this is nuts. 

I can't comment on if this is the right choice for MI, but be aware the here in NZ, our lockdown is even tighter. 

ALL stores are closed except groceries and pharmacies (these are stand alone and not in a Walmart). 

ALL online shopping is closed (except groceries and liquor). 

ALL restaurants are closed and there is NO carry out at all. 

ALL driving is banned unless you are driving to the grocery store.

ALL airflights and ferries and trains have stopped. 

ALL parks are closed. 

ALL swimming, surfing, tramping, fishing, hunting is banned.

We are allowed to go for walks outside or bike as long as it is local.

 

Edited by lewelma
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47 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

In our state liquor stores are considered essential - how is it possible that gardening supplies and seeds aren't?!

 

 

Liquor stores and smoke shops are considered essential in Michigan.  Garden centers and seeds/supplies are not.😳

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4 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I can't comment on if this is the right choice for MI, but be aware the here in NZ, our lockdown is even tighter. 

ALL stores are closed except groceries and pharmacies (these are stand alone and not in a Walmart). 

ALL online shopping is closed (except groceries). 

ALL restaurants are closed and there is NO carry out at all. 

ALL driving is banned unless you are driving to the grocery store.

ALL airflights and ferries and trains have stopped. 

ALL parks are closed. 

ALL swimming, surfing, tramping, fishing, hunting is banned.

We are allowed to go for walks outside or bike as long as it is local.

 

But y'all are shooting for eradication, which isn't likely to happen in the States.  Texas could do what NZ is doing, but it wouldn't change anything if Louisiana, Oklahoma, and everyone else was looser.

Edited by DoraBora
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44 minutes ago, Cecropia said:

Anyone else feeling a little nervous that their own governor will be inspired to roll out similar restrictions?  I'm seriously tempted to run out and grab the soil and mulch we need within the next few days instead of waiting.

Dh made a funny joke - maybe they're gradually moving toward shutting down all the hardware store type supplies, because everyone is going to try and tackle those long-waiting home improvement projects, hurt themselves, and need to go to the hospital... Let's ban the sale of power tools, stepladders, box cutters...

This is from Michigan gov today 4-9-2020

This includes not being able to buy paint or mulch.😒

Screenshot_20200409-230524.png

Edited by 4everHis
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9 minutes ago, 4everHis said:

Liquor stores and smoke shops are considered essential in Michigan.  Garden centers and seeds/supplies are not.😳

As far as liquor stores.....severe alcoholics can die without alcohol. That is part of the reason for leaving them open.

Smoke shops, including cannabis shops, are left open due to addictions and not wanting people going off those products involuntarily to lead to domestic violence. 

People who are avid gardeners can work in their yard without new plants.  I understand the food chain and how planting a few weeks later will impact some peoples canning etc. People may have to delay planting (hard to do in areas with limited growing seasons). But food can be bought at a later date, if the plants don't have enough time to produce food. 

Edited by Tap
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Just now, Seasider too said:

 

I am pretty sure these things (gardening supplies, not twinkies) are somewhat essential to mental health. 

Everything is considered essential to someone. I just depends on, if closing a swath of businesses, will cause actual harm to people, or just discomfort. 

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6 hours ago, Ottakee said:

Today the governor tightened and extended the restrictions.  New ones include places like Target, Walmart, etc can not sell gardening supplies, flooring, paint, furniture, etc and all stores that normally sell those are closed.

One big thing that is frustrating people is that spring is here and gardening, starting plants, buying vegetable seeds, etc. needs to happen in the next month or the window might be gone.   She is not even allowing online ordering and drive up pick up of these things...either in a store, nursery, greenhouse, etc.

Landscapers and lawn care that work all outside and alone are not allowed at all. Construction has all stopped...including housing for people in great need....lower income and special needs apartments, etc 

I am very pro the stay home, stay safe orders.....but I am not sure the people of Michigan will go along with this beyond the end of April.

Apparently  the mayor of warren, an inner ring Detroit suburb, has said he won’t be enforcing the restrictions on landscapers working.  He considers cut grass critical to safety and doesn’t want to  encourage rodents (like rats) in his city.

I already wrote my state rep that this needs to be walked back.  The arbitrary nature of who is essential and different policies for the same service (pickup) depending on the product is what is so infuriating.  Off to write the governor.  Do you know if she stopped road construction?  I can’t imagine how bad the roads will be if we miss construction season.

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Meanwhile the governor of Ohio is going to release plans to get things opening back up. So it seems like MI is covering up for their failures. And given that the majority of the MI cases are in the Detroit area (yes?), it seems like the approach ought to be customized by county if they think it's necessary to be THAT restrictive. Is MI withholding access to the drugs and treatments that are working? The whole tenor of this should be going down now that we have more data about treatments that work.

I hope the people of MI are pushing back, calling their representatives, etc. 

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Ohio and Michigan have the same deadline for the current restrictions.  The issue has been the number of people that are wandering the home improvement stores and such, because they are bored.  I think there should be a middle ground with curbside pick-up of non-essential items, and I see the industry arguing for changes to that effect.  The biggest problem remains that we still don't have testing!  

What treatments do we have that have been shown to actually work?  Everything I've seen is anecdotal at best.

 

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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Meanwhile the governor of Ohio is going to release plans to get things opening back up. So it seems like MI is covering up for their failures. And given that the majority of the MI cases are in the Detroit area (yes?), it seems like the approach ought to be customized by county if they think it's necessary to be THAT restrictive. Is MI withholding access to the drugs and treatments that are working? The whole tenor of this should be going down now that we have more data about treatments that work.

I hope the people of MI are pushing back, calling their representatives, etc. 

I disagree with the extent of the newest restrictions in MI, but I don't see how it represents "covering up for failures." Whitmer declared a state of emergency a month ago (3/10) and she closed restaurants and schools well before NY did, even though MI had far fewer cases. She announced a full shut down the day after NY's went into effect. She has been begging for PPE and equipment for weeks, warning that they were going to be hit very hard, and now they are getting slammed. There are reports from doctors and nurses in Detroit hospitals that they are totally overwhelmed and have patients dying in the hallways. 

As for the bolded — are you saying that restrictions should be loosening now, because we have "treatments that work"? Are you talking about chloroquine? I understand that the FDA has issued an emergency approval and there are clinical trials going on for that and for other drugs like remdesivir, but we are still a long way from knowing what "works" and what doesn't, and most people will not have access to those treatments, either because of limited supply (chloroquine) or because they are only available through clinical trials. Do you think Whitmer is forbidding clinical trials in Michigan for some reason?

Edited by Corraleno
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