Online classes

[Terabith]

ARRRRGGGG.  So, oldest child was doing really, really well.  Anxiety and depression had almost completely dissipated.  Really high A's in all the classes at the community college.  But the social isolation of the virus hasn't been good for her depression/ anxiety, and the format of online classes, with teachers who clearly are not into online classes, has totally thrown her for a loop.   She's falling apart and stressed and isn't getting work done and isn't understanding the math.  My husband is a good tutor, but she's just completely shutting down.  I wish we could just drop the classes.  Online is clearly not a good fit.  But, my family says that's a massive overreaction.  It might be too late even.  I'm not sure.  And it would probably mean she couldn't get into the small private high school that we all think would be a perfect fit for her.  She's done a lot of academic work this year, but if she dropped classes, she'd have absolutely nothing to show for it.  So we probably can't and have to keep hitting our heads against walls unproductively, but the whining and crying from these damned online classes is making me ready to kill her.  

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Terabith said:

But, my family says that's a massive overreaction. 

So online classes ARE horrible for kids with disabilities. She has lost her herd effect, and she's probably not getting any of the structure and EF supports built into well done online classes. Even when they're well done, it's still a HARD WAY for our kids to learn. 

Thing is, dropping has consequences. Hold it, these are CC classes? Not high school?? Uh oh. Yeah, bigger universities were set up but the smaller places are scrambling. And the students have their learning curve.

So I agree with you she must withdraw *if* she's going to have horrific grades. That would be a permanent tragedy to trash her GPA. However 

-Have you talked with her doctor about modifying/updating/increasing her anxiety meds?

-Has she talked with her professors about where her grades are?

-Has she talked with the university and used her paper trail to compel them to provide EF supports? As a student with diagnosed disabilities, she qualifies for supports under ADA law, federal law. BUT SHE HAS TO ASK. And this can be stuff like executive function support, learning how to self-advocate, problem solving, etc. The CC should have some kind of office of student services that provides these services. 

I think just in general you want to help her problem solve. She can contact each prof and work through her options. Many kids are struggling, and they might be able to do some things like giving her an incomplete and allowing her to finish after she gets her anxiety/medical issues under control. Also, it might be the case that she would have been crunched anyway. My dd just has 3 weeks of classes left and finals. This is a really tough time anyway, even if you're pretty experienced at doing online classes like my dd is. My dd is getting it done, but she's sounding TIRED. 

As the mom, you cannot help her with the college stuff. However you can help her with the medical. Maybe the doctor can up her current med? That's the part you can do, making that telehealth appt and getting something to happen. That part is rectifiable. 

[Rosie_0801]

You might try talking to Epic Education Illawarra on FB. She used to be on here, not sure if she still is. She's offering online tutoring at the moment and is plenty experienced with those not enjoying life's challenges, so to speak.

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Terabith said:

the whining and crying from these damned online classes is making me ready to kill her.  

Ok, fwiw, I find it very hard to be around my dd when she's doing her online/college work. It's part of why we agreed to let her stay with our friends in the state where her univ is. It saves us the whole DRAMA. The whole I can't, it's due, it's not coming together, blah blah. I lived with that drama for how long in high school, and it's just nerve wracking to watch!! I'm like sorry, I know your language drops, I know the online isn't set up well, I know the profs are (late on feedback, whatever), but it still has to get done.

So me, I'm glad she's not here. My friend is saying dd holes up in her room working literally until 5:30-6:00 and then appears to make some dinner. All day, just holed up, trying to do the work. And probably some of that time is inefficient, but I also think she's just lost in the drama of how she always does things. And it's hard to be around. So if it's humanly possible for her to pull it together and get it done, you could just tell her to take her drama back to her room. That's not a good answer if she's on the brink and not able to pull it together. But that really goes back to the call your doctor and get the meds straightened out, kwim? But if it's really pain in the butt time of the semester and do your work stuff when it's really awful cuz you have disabilities, well that I just don't want to watch anymore. Like don't watch. Ignore it, walk away, go watch movies and be glad you're not 18-22 anymore.

[PeterPan]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

online tutoring

So again, this dc needs to be asking what her CC provides. The CC is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to provide disability services to online students, just like any other setting. It's the LAW. Now the fed dept of ed has been waiving IDEA, so maybe they waived ADA? But it's a different law and even then for IDEA they're saying "use common sense." In other words, this dc probably has access to a lot more supports than she realizes IF SHE ASKS. 

The part she's probably less able to do for herself is asking for medical help. That's a Mom thing. But yeah, my dd's university provides online 24 hour feedback services where they can submit papers, do I don't know what. Some univ have paid students. But see what the cc has. They may have those people working remotely and therefore the services are still available.

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

So online classes ARE horrible for kids with disabilities. She has lost her herd effect, and she's probably not getting any of the structure and EF supports built into well done online classes. Even when they're well done, it's still a HARD WAY for our kids to learn. 

Thing is, dropping has consequences. Hold it, these are CC classes? Not high school?? Uh oh. Yeah, bigger universities were set up but the smaller places are scrambling. And the students have their learning curve.

So I agree with you she must withdraw *if* she's going to have horrific grades. That would be a permanent tragedy to trash her GPA. However 

-Have you talked with her doctor about modifying/updating/increasing her anxiety meds?

-Has she talked with her professors about where her grades are?

-Has she talked with the university and used her paper trail to compel them to provide EF supports? As a student with diagnosed disabilities, she qualifies for supports under ADA law, federal law. BUT SHE HAS TO ASK. And this can be stuff like executive function support, learning how to self-advocate, problem solving, etc. The CC should have some kind of office of student services that provides these services. 

I think just in general you want to help her problem solve. She can contact each prof and work through her options. Many kids are struggling, and they might be able to do some things like giving her an incomplete and allowing her to finish after she gets her anxiety/medical issues under control. Also, it might be the case that she would have been crunched anyway. My dd just has 3 weeks of classes left and finals. This is a really tough time anyway, even if you're pretty experienced at doing online classes like my dd is. My dd is getting it done, but she's sounding TIRED. 

As the mom, you cannot help her with the college stuff. However you can help her with the medical. Maybe the doctor can up her current med? That's the part you can do, making that telehealth appt and getting something to happen. That part is rectifiable. 

These are community college classes, not high school.  She doesn't actually have diagnosed disabilities beyond the general anxiety.  She actually has REALLY good executive functioning.  And her grades are all A's....high A's.  She's just super stressed, because she hates learning this way; she misses the social structure of class, and while some teachers have pivoted moderately smoothly, most of them haven't.  It did help her to realize that next week is actually the last week and that the tests and papers she's doing now are the last new material she has.  I sat down with her and said, "Look, you can do pass/ fail if you want.  Your average is literally 101.  You could COMPLETELY FAIL this test and still pass the damned class."  And it's not like she's spending long hours on her classes.  I'm literally suggesting she spend maybe two hours a day working, spread out, with breaks, and everyone acts like I'm this slave driver.  These classes are WELL within her ability.  And I can help her with her English or psychology class.  My husband can help with math.  But she really doesn't need help so much as someone to calm her down.  She knows the material.  It's just so much drama and whining.  

I need to talk to the psychiatrist.  I feel like before, we'd gotten her stable chemically.  I think at this point, it's more situational anxiety/ depression, where she's isolated and lonely and bored, and it probably is APPROPRIATE for her to feel shitty about those things, but it is dropping her ability to cope.  Like, maybe we should just put zoloft in the water until this is over or something?  

[Rosie_0801]

5 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

So again, this dc needs to be asking what her CC provides. The CC is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to provide disability services to online students, just like any other setting. It's the LAW. Now the fed dept of ed has been waiving IDEA, so maybe they waived ADA? But it's a different law and even then for IDEA they're saying "use common sense." In other words, this dc probably has access to a lot more supports than she realizes IF SHE ASKS. 

The part she's probably less able to do for herself is asking for medical help. That's a Mom thing. But yeah, my dd's university provides online 24 hour feedback services where they can submit papers, do I don't know what. Some univ have paid students. But see what the cc has. They may have those people working remotely and therefore the services are still available.

 

*shrug* I was just making a suggestion. 

(I haven't much faith in "legally obligated" and sometimes, particularly when someone is stuck in their own head, an outsider is better able to be the right person at the right time.)

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

*shrug* I was just making a suggestion. 

(I haven't much faith in "legally obligated" and sometimes, particularly when someone is stuck in their own head, an outsider is better able to be the right person at the right time.)

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to contradict so much as expand. The idea is good, and they ought to be providing it through the CC, even now, especially now. And I'm hearing (from friends who work at uni) that they know these things are going to happen and that they WANT to help the kids. But to get the help, you have to ask.

[PeterPan]

7 minutes ago, Terabith said:

It did help her to realize that next week is actually the last week and that the tests and papers she's doing now are the last new material she has. 

Oh good! It sounds like it's her anxiety. And yeah, one week is awesome!! It will be over soon. And if she's not in danger of failing, then it seems to me like you could go into cruise planning mode, buy some noise canceling ear phones, serve frozen chinese for dinner for a week, just totally check out till it's over. Have you taken care of your feet? I scrubbed mine last night and again this morning. 

9 minutes ago, Terabith said:

it is dropping her ability to cope. 

So I will tell you that we have worked pretty hard to keep my ds disconnected from what is going on. And he's 11 and pretty oblivious. And even with all that, his stress levels went THROUGH THE ROOF as this mess went down. 

So yes, I think zoloft in the water is a good idea. Or a dose increase. This is an emergency, an unusual situation, a lot of change, a lot of stress. It's not a shock that she needs some temporary increases. I mean, look at me. I usually can deal with myself and life and keep how I function under control, and I went from that to completely nonfunctional, boom. I think a lot of people are needing extra support and that upping whatever she needs for support makes sense. I also think these docs and pdocs are seeing this a LOT right now and have already thought through plans. It's not like this will be a novel complaint, lol. So your plan o get that appointment and see what options they have sounds good. 

Perrier has low amounts of lithium. That's all I know of for zoloft in the water. Halibut is supposed to be like natural prozac, but I can't get to Trader Joes to get halibut, sniff. Well I could, but I think they've been having problems being safe. I went to the big city and could have stopped and I didn't. I got my essential vitamins from a vitamin store and just drove right on by Trader Joes, sigh.

That's an interesting thought that she's bored. Started my ds on his med tonight (YEAH!!!!) and it was like this bit of clarity hit him. He's realizing how bored he's going to be now that it's almost impossible to get the nintendo games he'd like to buy. And oh horrors, he might have to do something else. But yeah if she functions that well, I could see the bored thing. What does she normally do? Has that activity regrouped a new way? People are getting pretty witty about how they socialize.

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Oh good! It sounds like it's her anxiety. And yeah, one week is awesome!! It will be over soon. And if she's not in danger of failing, then it seems to me like you could go into cruise planning mode, buy some noise canceling ear phones, serve frozen chinese for dinner for a week, just totally check out till it's over. Have you taken care of your feet? I scrubbed mine last night and again this morning. 

So I will tell you that we have worked pretty hard to keep my ds disconnected from what is going on. And he's 11 and pretty oblivious. And even with all that, his stress levels went THROUGH THE ROOF as this mess went down. 

So yes, I think zoloft in the water is a good idea. Or a dose increase. This is an emergency, an unusual situation, a lot of change, a lot of stress. It's not a shock that she needs some temporary increases. I mean, look at me. I usually can deal with myself and life and keep how I function under control, and I went from that to completely nonfunctional, boom. I think a lot of people are needing extra support and that upping whatever she needs for support makes sense. I also think these docs and pdocs are seeing this a LOT right now and have already thought through plans. It's not like this will be a novel complaint, lol. So your plan o get that appointment and see what options they have sounds good. 

Perrier has low amounts of lithium. That's all I know of for zoloft in the water. Halibut is supposed to be like natural prozac, but I can't get to Trader Joes to get halibut, sniff. Well I could, but I think they've been having problems being safe. I went to the big city and could have stopped and I didn't. I got my essential vitamins from a vitamin store and just drove right on by Trader Joes, sigh.

That's an interesting thought that she's bored. Started my ds on his med tonight (YEAH!!!!) and it was like this bit of clarity hit him. He's realizing how bored he's going to be now that it's almost impossible to get the nintendo games he'd like to buy. And oh horrors, he might have to do something else. But yeah if she functions that well, I could see the bored thing. What does she normally do? Has that activity regrouped a new way? People are getting pretty witty about how they socialize.

Yeah, she's anaphalactically allergic to fish.  No halibut.  

Can he get Nintendo games from amazon?  

Most of her social life before this hit was via the internet/ phone, but we all realized that wasn't ideal.  The community college classes gave her some out of the house time, some structure, 12 hours a week of in real time interaction with people closer to her age.  Like, if a class was canceled, she'd go and get coffee with a couple folks from there.  She wasn't making great friends, and the classmates were in their 20's, not late teens like I'd thought it might be, so a lot of them were in a totally different phase of life, have little kids, etc.  But it was something different.  She was REALLY excited about spending a couple days visiting this private high school for next year.  That's going to be an online interview.  Not the same.  She is desperately afraid that she won't be able to go there in real life next year, and she so needs it.  It's absolutely what she needs.  Rigorous academics, tons of support, teeny tiny classes, oodles of fine arts as a mandatory part of the school day, classes with peers who are geeky and artsy.  She plays Dungeons and Dragons with folks via Zoom.  She watches a lot of Youtube and Disney Plus.  She plays video games.  She reads.  She does art.  She chats with folks via Discord or Instagram.  We drag her outside for walks every once in awhile.  She makes quesadillas.  I mean, she's 16.  Developmentally, she's SUPPOSED to be pulling away from her parents and bonding to her peers, and now there's this pandemic and the only people she can be around are immediate family.  It just flat IS depressing.  I'm pretty darn introverted, and between never getting real alone time because everyone is here all the time and not getting a regular dose of interaction with people outside the house, it's getting to me.  I'm realizing I don't need in depth interactions with strangers, but just SEEING people.  It's the loss of choice, of freedom.  And, I'm really trying NOT to complain.  We have absolutely the best scenario to weather this pandemic that's possible.  We've got enough food, enough money; my husband can work from home in a job that is very secure.  He does IT for the hospital.  I'm not working, since all I was doing before was subbing, so I'm available to help everyone with school stuff, or bake, or figure things out.  Both kids are smart and have good executive functioning and working internet.  Cat's classes don't seem to really care much if she does anythign at all.  (I need to find out what is required for her.  If they really aren't grading, I may just use this time to homeschool and get Writing with Skill to do with her and Human Odyssey, to front load her for world history next year.  Maybe find an actual algebra textbook and figure out what she knows and what she doesn't.)  We all get along with and genuinely like each other.  But, she's 16.  She needs friends, and most of her local friends ghosted her when she left the high school, so she's not interacting with them much, even virtually.  I need to suggest another art play date via Zoom with a friend she does art with.  The person she's supposedly dating is way less into her than she is into them, which is unfortunate.  Significant other also has about 70 extracurricular activities and is insanely busy, too. 

[PeterPan]

10 hours ago, Terabith said:

Developmentally, she's SUPPOSED to be pulling away from her parents and bonding to her peers,

She's also supposed to be learning how to be altruistic. Maybe she could have a service project, call people who are shut in alone (which she is not), learn to sew masks, etc.? 

I do not think it is the end of the world for someone to be cooped up for ONE MONTH, which is all this has been. It's in the b&w thinking and introversion that says it will go on forever, that it's all about you, that there's nothing to do. We have TONS of work to be doing right now, taking care of people who are lonely or have other needs. Don't know anyone? Well assisted living facilities are looking for things for their easter baskets for residents. There's plenty to be doing.

[Terabith]

Well, probably doesn’t help my psychiatrist told both of us (on a televisit with me while she was around) to be mentally prepared for a year or even two and that the odds of her going back to school EVER were slim.  Anticipatory grief and all.  (He feels strongly that people need to prepare mentally for this to go on indefinitely and not say oh, it’s just a month.). 

[Guest]

Is your CC allowing pass/fail? If so, that would take some emotional pressure off and keep the class from tanking the GPA-even if her definition of tanking the GPA is an A- vs an A+ (unfortunately, my DD's is not, and she's struggling as well, for similar reasons-and the fear that this semester is going to mess up her grades and her college applications, especially when she'll be applying with 8th grade ACT scores isn't helping). Unless a student is going for NCAA eligibility, a pass/fail is not a problem, and might be emotionally comforting, 

 

My DD is taking full advantage of exercise being considered an essential service, and putting in miles a day. She says just seeing that there are signs of life and other people helps, even if it's via going by a grocery store and being able to see cars.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by dmmetler

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

Well, probably doesn’t help my psychiatrist told both of us (on a televisit with me while she was around) to be mentally prepared for a year or even two and that the odds of her going back to school EVER were slim.  Anticipatory grief and all.  (He feels strongly that people need to prepare mentally for this to go on indefinitely and not say oh, it’s just a month.). 

Ok, so the guy is an IDIOT and freaked y'all out, trying to get you to accept something that MIGHT NOT EVEN BE THE CASE. It might be, sure. If none of the meds they're using successfully were working and if all of the really high numbers predicted had turned out to be the case. But the meds are working, the deaths are way lower than predicted, and and they're turning out to be lower, not because of our reclusions, but because their models were WRONG.

So my friends in academia tell me (and send me articles showing other univ are talking about this) that univ are preparing for the possibility that things may continue online in some fashion in the fall. That's the truth. But it's also the truth that Trump is getting his get the economy running again panel going and that states are starting to work on this too. NY has peaked apparently and states that were extremely aggressive are doing quite well. 

I do not think people are going to let this shut down stand a long time because the data is showing it does not need to. But yes, staggered restarts of things could mean that dorm settings in univ could be an issue in the fall. But schools, day schools? There's going to be an outcry for those to resume by fall. That is just grossly freaking people out to say we are going to keep a huge portion of the economy shut down for a year or more. For parents to work, kids have to go to school. Therefore, resuming school will be HIGH PRIORITY. 

States are talking about beginning community level antibody testing. As soon as that is done and there's a sense that school can resume, they will. I think you should speak peace to her and the TRUTH. The truth is the things they thought a month ago are not completely how it is turning out, that the meds are doing well, that many states are having dramatically less deaths than they feared, and that if the theories on community spread (which Stanford is going to test out in CA, and our state is about to test, etc.) turn out to be correct, things may have a radically different trajectory from what they initially thought. Fear mongering is NOT appropriate here. No one is well served by that. This is a dynamic situation unfolding and it's turning out better than they thought.