College Fall 2020 - Virtual or In-Person? What do you think?

[Kassia]

I heard today (but didn't confirm) that state universities in OK announced they will be on campus in the fall.  

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I really hope they plan on mitigating risk such as mandating masks, smaller classes, online for larger classes, social distancing, etc. My husband and I are high risk and I am not really keen on ds getting Covd 19 as well since he has mild asthma  without need for daily meds.

[Hilltopmom]

5 hours ago, Kassia said:

I heard today (but didn't confirm) that state universities in OK announced they will be on campus in the fall.  

I assume this is the preferred plan at most schools but I hope they are making contingency plans if it can’t happen.

[lewelma]

We have already discussed ds travelling by container ship through the Panama canal to Boston, if AirNZ is not flying.  🙂 Hoping for in person classes!

[Lecka]

With the latest news I can see, University of Oklahoma has announced they will have in-person classes.  Oklahoma State University has not.  

My Mom lives in Norman and says there is a lot of hope that there is going to be a major expansion of testing in the next couple of months.  But she and her friends are all in a high-risk age group and are not going to make any changes in what they are doing.  This is still the state where the governor posted a picture of his family out at a restaurant in mid-March.  

http://www.oudaily.com/coronavirus/oklahoma-amid-coronavirus-ou-medicine-announces-new-covid-19-test-designed-to-increase-accuracy-access/article_b9ef0716-85a4-11ea-bb63-0faa25d68843.html

I do hope it will work out, though, my niece is there and she is having a hard time with online classes.  

Edited April 27, 2020 by Lecka

[RootAnn]

On 4/21/2020 at 9:46 AM, regentrude said:

and how are they going to fund the operation of the university during the fall semester? You can't simply dissolve a university and fire all staff and (tenured) faculty and then expect to have a university again in the spring. A college is not a pop-up boutique. 

Harvard announced today that it may do Fall semester online.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/harvard-to-have-a-fall-semester-but-details-unclear-11588032333

In reference to Regentrude's comment above, the article also stated, "Some universities said they are considering canceling the first semester and reopening in January of 2021." So, obviously, some places are attempting to figure out this option along with several other ugly and not-ideal options.

One of my friends asked me today what my DD will do if campus doesn't open in the fall. I had no answer. 

[kiana]

Whether they open or not, I see most with a tremendously expanded online/hybrid schedule in order to try to retain their students/faculty who are high-risk or live with high-risk people, or are international and can't get back into the country. 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

FWIW-my daughter's soon to be alma mater just announced that they will be on campus in the fall. It sounds like they have thought this through, have plans for testing on campus, and ways to keep the community safer. I think it will all depend on the individual school and location.

[easypeasy]

6 hours ago, JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst said:

FWIW-my daughter's soon to be alma mater just announced that they will be on campus in the fall. It sounds like they have thought this through, have plans for testing on campus, and ways to keep the community safer. I think it will all depend on the individual school and location.

 

DD got a similar email from her intended university yesterday or today stating pretty much this same thing. Calmed me right down - seems they're taking it all under consideration and weighing the possibilities. We are cautiously hopeful that classes can be held on campus this fall.

[Kassia]

4 hours ago, easypeasy said:

 

DD got a similar email from her intended university yesterday or today stating pretty much this same thing. Calmed me right down - seems they're taking it all under consideration and weighing the possibilities. We are cautiously hopeful that classes can be held on campus this fall.

 

We are too, but dd is going OOS and I don't know what to do about flights.  I can get great nonstop flights in August for an excellent price.  Do I take the risk or wait?  

[kiana]

43 minutes ago, Kassia said:

We are too, but dd is going OOS and I don't know what to do about flights.  I can get great nonstop flights in August for an excellent price.  Do I take the risk or wait?  

 

I really wouldn't get a nonrefundable flight now. 

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, kiana said:

 

I really wouldn't get a nonrefundable flight now. 

 

This is with American Airlines. They won't refund, but you can cancel and use the ticket at a later time and pay the difference in airfare for the new flight.  So, I guess it's more of a credit towards a future flight.  They flights are so cheap/nonstop/great times, but I really can't imagine how they will have classes on campus in the fall due to social distancing.  It's just hard to pass up these fares!  😛

[8filltheheart]

All universities want things to return to normal in the fall.  All of them are struggling with lost revenue.  But I don't believe any of them, regardless of stating they are opening on-campus in the fall, can guarantee they will until states open back up and we see how things unfold over that time line.  Everything we are seeing right now is artificially deflated.  I am praying that opening back up doesn't lead to overwhelming the system and forcing things to shut again b/c I really want my life back!! But, until we see what happens, I am taking a pragmatic approach, hopeful but reserved.

[RootAnn]

I think many colleges are trying to protect their enrollments by announcing they plan on being in person in the fall. It is clear to them that graduating high schoolers do not want to start college online, and their current students don't want to continue online. So, it is to the college's advantage to say they plan to be in person.

I hope they are, of course, but I think it is too early to really hope it will be so.

[Arcadia]

UCSD “Fall Quarter 2020 Courses to be Offered Remotely and In-Person; Tuition and Fees to Remain the Same”
https://ucsdguardian.org/2020/04/28/fall-quarter-2020-courses-to-be-offered-remotely-and-in-person-tuition-and-fees-to-remain-the-same/

[Lanny]

On 4/29/2020 at 6:13 AM, Kassia said:

 

We are too, but dd is going OOS and I don't know what to do about flights.  I can get great nonstop flights in August for an excellent price.  Do I take the risk or wait?  

 

The airline may have special rules, if you buy now, regarding what happens if you change or cancel a Non-Refundable reservation. Also, the U.S. Dept. of Transportation   issued an Enforcement Notice, early in April 2020, regarding Refunds for Non-Refundable tickets, if certain conditions are met. For example, if the airline cancels the flight and there are no alternate flights. That was the case for the ticket my DD bought from American, from NC to Colombia, for early May. Colombian airports are remaining closed, until at least June 1st, to International flights, so American will (hopefully) Refund to her CC.  Read the Fine Print, before clicking to buy!

 

T

[Mom0012]

Both of my kids' schools -- CNU and URichmond, have let us know their first choice is to have students on campus and that if there is any way they can do that, they will. I am hoping and praying this is possible. Richmond says they will be making a decision by the beginning of July, if not sooner. CNU hasn't given us dates, but I have full faith in President Trible and if there is any way he can have the students on campus, I know the man will do it. Richmond held a webinar last night, addressing student and parent concerns and sharing their hopes and contingency plans and my dd and I felt very positive about the administration and their handling of the issue. 

Richmond spoke about many students having asked about deferring freshman year and said they were considering even allowing a semester deferral, so that students could begin in the spring. This could be especially important for international students. Another thought they had was being open to starting the fall semester a little later than usual. 

[Mom0012]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:39 AM, RootAnn said:

I think many colleges are trying to protect their enrollments by announcing they plan on being in person in the fall. It is clear to them that graduating high schoolers do not want to start college online, and their current students don't want to continue online. So, it is to the college's advantage to say they plan to be in person.

I hope they are, of course, but I think it is too early to really hope it will be so.

 

I agree. But there does seem to be a momentum toward starting to consider to reopen things and that makes me hopeful.

[Bootsie]

HR at my university sent out a notice that a plan is being devised to begin having employees return to campus.  There were no details yet, but the notice stated that the gradual move will include measures such as staggered work hours and that the plan will include having everyone return to campus by the fall semester.

[Selkie]

One of the ideas that is being kicked around at the university my boys attend is to have students back on campus this fall, but only one student per dorm room. I guess they must be figuring that a significant percentage of students won't want to return to the dorms, because that is the only way they could make this work numbers-wise. The dorms are usually pretty full and the majority of rooms are double occupancy. I don't think this plan would make much of a dent in stopping viral spread, anyway, because the bathrooms are all shared.

[CAJinBE]

Erasmus University College in Rotterdam has announced that there will be classes in the fall on campus, online, or a hybrid. I'm not sure that cleared things up at all. Especially for the international students. 

[Kassia]

UT systems announced that fall semester will be on campus.  I can see how they can work classes with social distancing, but not dorms and dining hall.  

 

https://thedailytexan.com/2020/04/30/ut-system-plans-for-fall-reopening-of-all-institutions

[Arcadia]

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/30/jfk-university-jfku-pleasant-hill-closing/

“PLEASANT HILL (CBS SF) – John F. Kennedy University in Pleasant Hill is closing at the end of 2020, university officials announced Thursday.

JFK University, located on Ellinwood Way in Pleasant Hill, was founded in 1965 and has been affiliated with Southern California-based National University since 2009, and will transfer nearly all of its programs to other schools in that university’s system beginning in July.

...

JFK’s graduate psychology programs will be integrated as degree offerings at National University, while its College of Law will move to Northcentral University in San Diego and carry on its name as the JFK School of Law at NCU, according to the university.

The only programs being discontinued are the associate in arts program and certificate in Trauma Studies.

More information about the closure and program changes can be found online at https://www.jfku.edu/program-relocation-resources.”

[lewelma]

Five options being considered by MIT

1. The fall semester will be conducted remotely, and students will return to campus in the spring. 

2. The fall semester will be split into two sessions. Each student will attend one session on campus and the other session virtually. Of the 4,530 undergraduates enrolled at MIT, about 2,200 will be on campus at one time.

3. The school year will be split into three academic semesters. Each student will attend two semesters on campus and one virtually. About 3,100 undergraduates will be on campus at one time.

4. The fall semester will be held on campus for students who are able to return. Some large classes will be held virtually. Students who cannot safely return to campus, including many international students, can continue to attend classes remotely.

5. The fall semester will be held on campus, but the start date will be delayed about six weeks.

[Miss Tick]

One interesting possibility being considered at the University near me woukd be to delay the start of fall semester and then not have fall break or Thanksgiving break to reduce travel to and from campus.

[easypeasy]

16 hours ago, SusanC said:

One interesting possibility being considered at the University near me woukd be to delay the start of fall semester and then not have fall break or Thanksgiving break to reduce travel to and from campus.

 

That's not one I'd heard before, but... yeah. It actually makes quite a bit of sense if things aren't looking calmed-down by August.

I can emotionally handle almost any suggestion except staying 100% online next semester. It's been 7-8 weeks of quarantine for us, locked down here at home with cooperative but frustrated young adults. I cannot fathom having three young people under my roof, all hunkered-down, for another. solid. 8. months. Just cannot imagine them having an entire YEAR of their life sitting at home twiddling their thumbs. Especially at these ages (my kids are 17-22 years old...).

Edited May 3, 2020 by easypeasy

[regentrude]

On 5/2/2020 at 12:53 AM, lewelma said:

1. The fall semester will be held on campus, but the start date will be delayed about six weeks.

How are they going to handle that? MIT already starts late compared to other universities.  If they start 6 weeks later, will they do Christmas break in the middle of the semester?

[Guest]

On 5/2/2020 at 12:53 AM, lewelma said:

Five options being considered by MIT

1. The fall semester will be conducted remotely, and students will return to campus in the spring. 

2. The fall semester will be split into two sessions. Each student will attend one session on campus and the other session virtually. Of the 4,530 undergraduates enrolled at MIT, about 2,200 will be on campus at one time.

3. The school year will be split into three academic semesters. Each student will attend two semesters on campus and one virtually. About 3,100 undergraduates will be on campus at one time.

4. The fall semester will be held on campus for students who are able to return. Some large classes will be held virtually. Students who cannot safely return to campus, including many international students, can continue to attend classes remotely.

5. The fall semester will be held on campus, but the start date will be delayed about six weeks.

And I have every confidence in MIT's ability to understand the numbers and use data appropriately :). I can imagine it is really difficult to make plans for your DS, though!

[Kassia]

On 5/2/2020 at 9:24 AM, SusanC said:

One interesting possibility being considered at the University near me woukd be to delay the start of fall semester and then not have fall break or Thanksgiving break to reduce travel to and from campus.

 

I'm more concerned about a second wave than I am about how things are in August.  I wonder how that will be factored in to the hard decisions colleges have to make.

[EmilyGF]

12 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

I'm more concerned about a second wave than I am about how things are in August.  I wonder how that will be factored in to the hard decisions colleges have to make.

This is exactly what DH said when I told him about MIT's plans. (He's a professor of astrophysics at a similar university that so far has kept mum on fall.)

[Miss Tick]

38 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

I'm more concerned about a second wave than I am about how things are in August.  I wonder how that will be factored in to the hard decisions colleges have to make.

I think it is part of the nature of a pandemic that another wave is inevitable in the next month as places start to reopen. Watching how steep or shallow the curve of the next wave is will surely be a, if not the, major factor in what schools decide to do in the fall. If it seems controllable or mostly shallow it is perhaps a good omen for fall reopens, if not then we will all have to reevaluate our actions going forward.

I assume universities that have in-person classes in the fall will be setting up their own contact tracing systems. I wonder if they will try to depend on technology for that, university age students seem much more open with their digital selves than I am comfortable with.

I am also interested in reading more about "safe group sizing". I heard an interview with someone studying the concept who said with an extremely rough model that they weren't willing to publicize they could see that groups of , say, 20 would cause the virus to spread like wildfire and with groups of 10 it died out. It had to do with average numbers of contacts that people have and how many of those are at the high-range of the "average contact curve". While I'm not going to cleave to those back-of-the-envelope numbers, it was intriguing and anti-intuitive to me that there could even be truly a "safe" number like that.

[lewelma]

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

How are they going to handle that? MIT already starts late compared to other universities.  If they start 6 weeks later, will they do Christmas break in the middle of the semester?

Autumn term usually ends around the 22nd of December. I assume the kids would lose the IAP in January, the one-month long independent activities period.  That gains them 4 weeks of the 6. Then my guess is losing one week in each semester either by losing fall and spring break, or by losing a week of instruction. 

[lewelma]

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

How are they going to handle that? MIT already starts late compared to other universities.  If they start 6 weeks later, will they do Christmas break in the middle of the semester?

Missed the second part of the question.  I assume they would do exams after Christmas break like they do at Princeton. They wouldn't need fall break, because they would have Christmas break instead.  

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by lewelma

[Matryoshka]

8 hours ago, regentrude said:

How are they going to handle that? MIT already starts late compared to other universities.  If they start 6 weeks later, will they do Christmas break in the middle of the semester?

LOL, all (most?) MA universities start 'late', as do the public schools.  Everything usually starts after Labor Day.  I didn't even know other places did school in August until I came to these boards!  Some places have slowly had a last-week-of-August creep, but that still weirds me out.

10 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Missed the second part of the question.  I assume they would do exams after Christmas break like they do at Princeton. They wouldn't need fall break, because they would have Christmas break instead.  

Does MIT normally have a 'fall break'?  UMass doesn't - there's a spring break, but no fall.  Start 1st week Sept, go straight through till exams, then 2 weeks Xmas break, then 'wintersession' in January, start back up end of Jan.

Still waiting to hear what UMass is going to do.  Still up in the air.  I'm just hoping we get word before dd has to sign a lease.

[lewelma]

22 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Does MIT normally have a 'fall break'?  UMass doesn't - there's a spring break, but no fall.  Start 1st week Sept, go straight through till exams, then 2 weeks Xmas break, then 'wintersession' in January, start back up end of Jan.

Instead of a week off, they typically get 2 days for Thanksgiving, and 2 days somewhere else in fall. 

[Matryoshka]

56 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Instead of a week off, they typically get 2 days for Thanksgiving, and 2 days somewhere else in fall. 

Yeah, everyone here gets the two days for Thanksgiving.  But now that you've reminded me, UMass Amherst (but not Lowell) has started giving everyone the whole Thanksgiving week off - wasn't true when I went there.  I think too many kids were just taking off anyway.  That's weird enough for me that I keep forgetting it!  Usually everyone also gets Columbus (aka Indigenous People's) Day in October off, but that's just a long weekend.  Now you have me wondering if there are less instructional days than when I went to college!

[Kassia]

UT Dallas made an announcement about fall that I thought was interesting:

 

https://utdallas.edu/president/message/2020-05-04.html?WT.mc_id=NewsFacebook&fbclid=IwAR0sqVGpkJR4l4_rKsIL_FxOw9r8r1Mt3ErEMCbvaOZnFTtQqpIyjLTkfdM

[Guest]

https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2020/05/leebron-announces-plan-for-fall-semester

 

Rice U's announcement. This seems like a well thought out plan. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I thought this was an interesting read. The authors try to address different possibilities based on the course of the pandemic as well as college characteristics and resources. What will work for a rural wholly residential college may not be an option for an urban or suburban college with lots of commuters or off campus housing. 

https://www.insidehighered.com/digital-learning/blogs/learning-innovation/15-fall-scenarios

The authors have done additional columns to explore possible scenarios in more depth.

I think prudent colleges are making plans for several contingencies. 

I heard a prominent west coast university official yesterday who commented that any college that thought they could definitively say now what they would be doing in fall was fooling themselves. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Sebastian (a lady)

[easypeasy]

17 hours ago, dmmetler said:

https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2020/05/leebron-announces-plan-for-fall-semester

 

Rice U's announcement. This seems like a well thought out plan. 

 

Seems like a very solid plan. Eliminating travel back-and-forth for Fall Break and T-Giving makes a lot of sense.

Edited May 6, 2020 by easypeasy

[melmichigan]

On 5/3/2020 at 9:34 AM, Kassia said:

 

I'm more concerned about a second wave than I am about how things are in August.  I wonder how that will be factored in to the hard decisions colleges have to make.

Most of the simulators seem to lean toward a second wave peaking mid-August or September if the virus isn't impacted by the summer weather (which most seem to believe it won't be).

I have kids at the local middle college.  The online classes didn't exist.  One professor held three online classes, so it was all basically independent study.  I'm afraid to see their grades. I'm extremely disappointed and have no idea what to plan for fall.  They keep saying classes will resume for summer when our stay-at-home orders expire, but I don't know how they can know that.

Edited May 9, 2020 by melmichigan

[Bootsie]

My provost sent a 27 page report to the faculty that outlines the plan for making a plan for the fall semester!

[RootAnn]

Here is another suggestion for what colleges can do to prepare for fall. Only 19 pages vs @Bootsie's provost's 27 page report. ;)

The University of Nebraska and the University of Nebraska Medical Center’s Global Center for Health Security have developed a recovery guide and checklist (links to a pdf) to help college leaders consider if they are ready to resume classes while the coronavirus pandemic drags on.

[Hilltopmom]

Interesting thoughts-

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2020/05/11/students-should-not-return-campuses-fall-regardless-financial-implications-opinion
 

[jplain]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:19 PM, melmichigan said:

Most of the simulators seem to lean toward a second wave peaking mid-August or September if the virus isn't impacted by the summer weather (which most seem to believe it won't be).

I have kids at the local middle college.  The online classes didn't exist.  One professor held three online classes, so it was all basically independent study.  I'm afraid to see their grades. I'm extremely disappointed and have no idea what to plan for fall.  They keep saying classes will resume for summer when our stay-at-home orders expire, but I don't know how they can know that.

Same boat.  My 11th grader has her last final on Friday.  I know her profs did their best, but her online classes were pale shadows of their in-person selves.

I am extremely conflicted about sending her back to the middle college in the fall.  I would like for the middle college to retain her as a student, because I think they may be in desperate need of per-pupil funding next year.  Plus if she decides to attend the state university, there are some advantages to graduating with a state-issued HS diploma.  But I’m not going to be pressured into sending her back to campus before I think it is safe, and I don’t want to compromise on the quality of her education.  If the principal will let her take one online class per semester at the CC and let us do the rest at home via accredited online course providers (our choices, out of my wallet), that’d work.  But I realize a take it or leave it deal like that might be super-insulting.

[Arcadia]

https://abc7news.com/education/csu-campuses-to-remain-closed-through-fall-semester-chancellor-announces/6176229/

“SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) -- The California State University (CSU) system said it plans to cancel all in-personal classes for the fall and to continue instruction online, due to the coronavirus pandemic.
CSU Chancellor Timothy White made the announcement Tuesday, which will affect all 23 of its universities, including San Francisco State, San Jose State and Cal State East Bay and Sonoma State.

"This virtual planning approach for the next academic year is necessary because of the evolving data surrounding the progression of COVID-19." White explained to CSU trustees.

White said non-partisan researchers and health experts forecast additional waves of infection coupled with the flu season in the fall. He added the public immunity rate is very low, and it is not likely a vaccine will be developed during the academic year.”

[Joker]

The state university both of my dc attend has been talking of some form of hybrid system but this morning it looks like many students woke to emails that the classes they were registered for have already moved online for fall. These include labs and 300/400 level courses we thought for sure would be in person. So, it’s looking less likely they will be on campus. Oldest will still be in his off campus apartment but it stinks for youngest who will be a freshman. 

[Bootsie]

DD's university in Austria moved online in mid-March, initially saying that the move would be for at least one month.  Then about the beginning of April, the university announced that the semester would be completed online.  Yesterday, the university sent another email saying that professors can begin holding in-person exams and in July may begin in person-class meetings.  The semester would have been scheduled to finish at the end of July--but the email said that professors can meet classes in July, August, and September--basically extending the semester up to the fall semester and eliminating summer break.  

[rjand6more]

Purdue just released the final decision.

Early start kids(my dd is included) will be on campus July 10th for in person classes.

Fall semester will begin on time with NO breaks.  The last in person classes will be before Thanksgiving break.  Then they don't come back until January.

I am beyond happy with the way Purdue has handled this.

[Lori D.]

DS's university (largish public state) went to all-online in mid-March to finish the spring 2020 semester.

Summer 2020 classes will continue to be all online.

Fall 2020 classes will be in-person.

 

He is a commuter student, so while this will put him in contact with more people in his classes, it is not not nearly as high-risk as dorm living and dining on campus. Also, he will be in all 400 level courses, which means small class size...

Edited May 19, 2020 by Lori D.