College Fall 2020 - Virtual or In-Person? What do you think?

[BookwormTo2]

It would be so interesting to be a fly on the wall listening to meetings that various college administrators are having about the coronavirus and upcoming semesters. I would think they have to consider worst case scenarios and of course hope for the best outcome. The worst case scenarios to me would be rolling coronavirus problems. Say a college opens this fall but in November has to close and go to online only classes, or a college opens in January only to close in February and do online only classes. And then there's the issue that my DD hasn't encountered yet with having a lab go online suddenly. She's going to have to take a science lab in the fall (college freshman) whether or not classes are in person or online, or risk falling behind schedule. I know she's not the only student who is facing that possibility. And like @AEC said, sometimes the classes you need are a sequence and you can't take them out of sequence (paraphrased a bit). For example, Physics 1 then Physics 2... And at the big public universities it can be harder to get a spot in some classes like that certain semesters. Also, some classes one might take in the fall are just too difficult to take in a shortened summer semester. 

[SanDiegoMom]

On 4/8/2020 at 9:48 AM, regentrude said:

interesting on the bolded. Do you know how are they planning to do that? Just lower the caps and limit class access? Cause nobody has money to hire additional instructors to keep class sizes small

 I bet for some of the larger universities that have those large lecture classes of 250 or over might encourage more kids to watch it virtually? I know UCLA has "Bruincast" for students that are sick or unable to make it to lectures -- not every professor used it but maybe they will make it mandatory for the time being.  

For my daughter as a poli sci major she says the quality has not varied -- the professors mainly gave lectures and now they just are doing it over zoom and offering recordings afterward. The discussion sections seem to be interacting relatively similar to in person ones.  The only struggle she has had is more due to her adhd and time management -- having the structure of going to class every day and then to work was beneficial.  Now that she can just watch recordings later she is struggling against letting it all pile up. On the other other hand, it really helps to have recordings that you can rewind as opposed to in person classes where if you lose focus for five minutes you are SOL. 

[Kassia]

Our governor (Ohio) just addressed the issue of colleges opening up in the fall.  He sounded very pessimistic.  😞

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Video?  What is this video you speak of?  All three of my kids' online classes are either asynchronous with assignments/readings online, or live Zoom classes (much better).  No prepared videos (although honestly I still prefer live over video).  One dd reports that some of her classes have recordings of the live classes available to watch after, but not all.

I teach a large class (500) that has two live and one asynchronous online section. I can't prop up a camera and just record me lecturing in a 150+ seat auditorium where I am performing demonstrations and working problems on the chalk board - that would be horrible quality. You'd need a live videographer who can move the camera and zoom in and out.
I am producing video versions of every lecture which are specifically designed for online delivery and the good enough resolution so they could read everything on a phone screen. So, instead of a video of a prof lecturing at the board for 50 minutes, students see on their screen my tablet screen and the stylus writing out the example problems while I narrate the steps (think Khan academy style). I video recorded all demonstrations I perform and embedded them in the lectures. For computer simulations, the screen and voice-over are recorded. Each lecture is broken into several 5-7 minute segments to make it easier for students to find the segment they wish to re-watch. And everything is closed-captioned to be ADA compliant. (pm me if you want to see an example)

For the literature class I am taking, the professor is producing videos with visuals, images and scenes from the films that are part of the class material, and his voice narration. It's professional quality and must certainly take him a long time to create.

Just putting assignments and readings online is not teaching, and certainly not a substitute for an actual class.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by regentrude

[Matryoshka]

12 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I teach a large class (500) that has two live and one online section. I can't prop up a camera and just record me lecturing in a 150+ seat auditorium where I am performing demonstrations and working problems on the chalk board - that would be horrible quality. I am producing video versions of every lecture which are specifically designed for online delivery. So, instead of a video of a prof lecturing at the board for 50 minutes, students see on their screen my tablet screen and the stylus writing out the problems while I narrate them (think Khan academy style). I video recorded all demonstrations I perform and embedded them in the lectures. For computer simulations, the screen and voice-over are recorded. Each lecture is broken into several 5-7 minute segments to make it easier for students to find the segment they wish to re-watch. And everything is closed-captioned to be ADA compliant. (pm me if you want to see an example)

For the literature class I am taking, the professor is producing videos with visuals, images and scenes from the films that are part of the class material, and his voice narration. It's professional quality and must certainly take him a long time to create.

Just putting assignments and readings online is not teaching, and certainly not a substitute for an actual class.

 

Couldn't agree more with the bolded.  But that appears to be just what most of our kids are getting.

My dh had the hilarious idea that it would cost less for online classes if that's what happens in the fall.  Hahahaha.  No.  We all get charged by the credit.

One really stark difference from waaay before Coronavirus - back at the CC, dd had a prof she absolutely loved for an Acctg class and wanted to take the next class in the sequence with him over the summer.  Only online was available.  It was an 8-week course.  He posted the assignments online and said the first half were due in 4 weeks; the other half at the end.  No lecture, no videos, no discussion, no interaction, not even regularly spaced assignments.  Dd of course procrastinated and then realized she couldn't do 4 weeks of work in the one she had left and ended up dropping the class, which at that point we still had to pay for, no less.  Lesson learned on her part, but we paid the exact same $ for the great in-person lecture class and the online list of assignments with only two due-dates (I'm guessing so the prof only had to do corrections twice over the summer...)

Fortunately none of the online classes they've switched over to now seem to be that poorly run, and dd's a lot older now and knows to keep up...

Edited April 14, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Hilltopmom]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

Our governor (Ohio) just addressed the issue of colleges opening up in the fall.  He sounded very pessimistic.  😞

Ugh. I get it, but I’m dreading that.

[Bootsie]

My university announced that we will be going online for summer classes.  Any faculty who is teaching in online summer classes must become certified to teach online before their summer course can be offered.  It will take about 10 hours to become certified.  Then we have to provide a syllabus that is in a particular format designed by the teaching center for online classes.  The template is 17 pages long!  So, with their template, after I add my course material, will be over 17 pages long. 

I am scheduled to teach an abbreviated graduate level course.  The template that I will be required to use has lots of information that is not relevant.  It is taking a great deal of time to even get my information to fit into this format.  Adapting a course to an online format is difficult enough, but this has added a lot of time consuming requirements that is not necessarily relevant for every type of class.  The department chairs and deans are afraid that many faculty are going to choose not to teach this summer because of the added work load and that required courses will not be offered.  This will probably especially be true for adjunct faculty who are poorly paid to begin with.  I can't imagine how problematic it will be if this all has to be done for all fall classes.  

 

[Kassia]

46 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

Ugh. I get it, but I’m dreading that.

 

I am too.  And then I just read this:  https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/04/14/sociologists-say-their-findings-student-interconnectedness-suggest-caution-needed

I'm feeling really sad about it.  

[regentrude]

46 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

The department chairs and deans are afraid that many faculty are going to choose not to teach this summer because of the added work load and that required courses will not be offered.  This will probably especially be true for adjunct faculty who are poorly paid to begin with.  I can't imagine how problematic it will be if this all has to be done for all fall classes.  

An add to that any possible layoffs at public institutions that face massive budget cuts because they won't receive their state funding since the states are broke - can't get tax revenue when nobody is working. Our governor already announced huge cuts, and it's higher ed that will bear the brunt. Who knows whether there will even be adjuncts.

Edited April 14, 2020 by regentrude

[Bootsie]

57 minutes ago, regentrude said:

An add to that any possible layoffs at public institutions that face massive budget cuts because they won't receive their state funding since the states are broke - can't get tax revenue when nobody is working. Our governor already announced huge cuts, and it's higher ed that will bear the brunt. Who knows whether there will even be adjuncts.

And university endowments have lost significant amounts...

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

An add to that any possible layoffs at public institutions that face massive budget cuts because they won't receive their state funding since the states are broke - can't get tax revenue when nobody is working. Our governor already announced huge cuts, and it's higher ed that will bear the brunt. Who knows whether there will even be adjuncts.

Gah.  One of mine is graduating this year, but I think has decided to go get an AS in PT - that seems a more secure option than the graduate degree in anthropology that was the other possibility.  The other two both have one more year... on the one hand stinks to be graduating into this economy, but I'm at least hoping the schools can manage to hold it together enough for this next year (even if it's online) so they can finish their degrees...

[kiana]

6 hours ago, Kassia said:

I am too.  And then I just read this:  https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/04/14/sociologists-say-their-findings-student-interconnectedness-suggest-caution-needed

I'm feeling really sad about it.  

I know some colleges (Beloit) have already announced that they're going to be doing two eight-week terms for the fall and I could see this greatly reducing student interconnectedness as well. 

[Guest]

I have a friend in admin at a school here and her school is planning to go to hybrid classes or online classes for fall. So, in a week there would be one physical session and online assignments, and only 1/2 or 1/3 of the students would come at a time. Labs would be physical, but spread out, so, again, a smaller group of students would be in the lab at a time. 

Big lecture only classes will be online and have digital help sessions/recitation sessions with smaller groups. 

To me, it sounds like they'll either need a lot of TAs and SA's-or the professors are going to be doing about 3x/work per section. 

 

 

[Arcadia]

Crosspost 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/education/story/2020-04-16/uc-san-diego-might-stick-with-online-classes-this-fall-due-to-coronavirus-crisis

“UC San Diego Chancellor Pradeep Khosla said Thursday that the school might stick with online courses for the fall quarter due to the coronavirus, but that he doesn’t see it becoming a permanent arrangement. 

He said the University of California system is considering the option for its undergraduate campuses and that UC executives will make the final decision. 

“I think (staying with online) is completely within the realm of possibility,” said Khosla, whose school has nearly 39,000 students.

“We have not made a decision about the fall quarter yet. We are looking at multiple models and have activated a continuity of education task force, a continuity of research task force and are also working with public health experts to help inform such a decision in concert with the UC system.””

[kiana]

On 4/15/2020 at 11:42 AM, dmmetler said:

I have a friend in admin at a school here and her school is planning to go to hybrid classes or online classes for fall. So, in a week there would be one physical session and online assignments, and only 1/2 or 1/3 of the students would come at a time. Labs would be physical, but spread out, so, again, a smaller group of students would be in the lab at a time. 

Big lecture only classes will be online and have digital help sessions/recitation sessions with smaller groups. 

To me, it sounds like they'll either need a lot of TAs and SA's-or the professors are going to be doing about 3x/work per section. 

Not quite 3x. Because I'd basically be prepping one classwork/here are the hardest parts for this week and doing it 3 times instead of prepping 3 lectures, but then I'd also have to prep the online stuff. 

It is prepping the online stuff that is going to be the hugest amount of work and being able to meet with my students once a week might actually reduce the amount because I'd spend less time anal-retentively working on ways to do what I KNOW is the hardest stuff without ever meeting them. 

[easypeasy]

Maybe they could move to a quarter system instead of a semester system? Online first fall quarter and then, hopefully, in-person for the second quarter?

Also- regarding cost... DD2s future college went to online only for summer but they are doing a reduced tuition for those classes. I was impressed. 

But also terrified at the impending funding cuts for state schools. Our state flagship underwent MAJOR funding cuts two years ago and they haven't yet recovered. Another round of that?? 😳

And reducing college classes with fewer days in class, etc... is that even going to help? College kids hang out together. Everywhere. Anywhere. And they drink. And they stand pretty darn close to one another... 

What a cluster%#~$. Can't believe this isn't some nightmare. I mean, it IS a nightmare.... but not one we can wake up from!!!

[Hilltopmom]

Yeah the funding cuts coming to public higher ed and k-12 schools is going to be horrific, I’m pretty sure 😞 here in NY the Covid response has got to be eating through all the state’s money.

[regentrude]

3 hours ago, easypeasy said:

But also terrified at the impending funding cuts for state schools. Our state flagship underwent MAJOR funding cuts two years ago and they haven't yet recovered. Another round of that?? 😳

This. It's very scary. Once state funding is gone, it is never coming back. Which leaves tuition as the only revenue. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by regentrude

[Guest]

And if a lot of freshmen  choose to wait until Jan or next fall to enroll,  that's going to cut more deeply. With a rising senior, I'm concerned about whether the schools that have been advertising their scholarships to her will even be able to offer them for the class of 2021 and beyond. And a lot more students are likely to need higher levels of financial aid, too. 

 

 

[elegantlion]

Students at my university are notorious for waiting until late to enroll. I can imagine they're going to waiting even later this year, which may lead to more classes being cancelled due to low enrollment. 

[klmama]

My dc's university will have online classes this summer but hasn't decided yet about next fall.  Time will tell.  Dc has already registered for fall classes.  Dc signed a lease for fall before all this happened and will live there off-campus whether classes are in-person or end up online again.  

[MamaSprout]

My dd already had one of her fall DE course sections cancel due to "low enrollment". This is a 100 level course and incoming Freshman haven't registered yet. So some schedule Tetris is already happening there.

Edited April 21, 2020 by MamaSprout

[Lanny]

In the Google Feed on my phone last night I read an article from the DailyTarHeel, the UNC newspaper, about the Fall Semester, different possibilities. The worst case is that they would be all Online. One possibility is that they might delay the beginning of the semester, from August to September 2020. There are other possibilities. They are studying the situation, which is dynamic.

[RootAnn]

I have started to see current students expressing their plans to take a semester off if their financial aid/scholarship can be put on hold. These kids are adamant they do not want to experience another semester online.

My kid wouldn't mind some online classes as long as her friends & activities are still allowed to be on campus. Her school has moved all freshmen orientation to online, and they hope to do a one-day in person orientation before classes start in the fall.

[Kassia]

2 hours ago, Lanny said:

In the Google Feed on my phone last night I read an article from the DailyTarHeel, the UNC newspaper, about the Fall Semester, different possibilities. The worst case is that they would be all Online. One possibility is that they might delay the beginning of the semester, from August to September 2020. There are other possibilities. They are studying the situation, which is dynamic.

 

I have also seen colleges consider moving fall semester to spring and then spring to summer.  

[regentrude]

38 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I have also seen colleges consider moving fall semester to spring and then spring to summer.  

and how are they going to fund the operation of the university during the fall semester? You can't simply dissolve a university and fire all staff and (tenured) faculty and then expect to have a university again in the spring. A college is not a pop-up boutique. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by regentrude

[Lanny]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

 

I have also seen colleges consider moving fall semester to spring and then spring to summer.  

 

If they move Spring     to   Summer, the courses would be much faster. A lot of content in very little time. I would prefer not to see that.

[Kassia]

Professors at the university my dd plans to attend in fall are telling students they expect it to be online for fall.  

 

[Selkie]

My ds21 talked to his academic advisor today about fall classes. She said they are planning to let students know around May 1 whether fall classes will be in-person or online.

[Kassia]

23 minutes ago, Selkie said:

My ds21 talked to his academic advisor today about fall classes. She said they are planning to let students know around May 1 whether fall classes will be in-person or online.

 

That's really early, but nice for the students to know one way or another.  I read that FL schools are planning on making the decision in July and that's what I expect for the school my dd wants to attend.  It's so hard planning for an OOS trip and all the dorm stuff not knowing if it's going to be needed or not.  And she would schedule differently if she were going to be online vs. on campus, too.

[Hilltopmom]

Ds just registered for classes. I told him to not be surprised if they wind up online. Everything he has scheduled should be ok to take online. Not ideal but he has no labs or hands on classes next fall at least. 

[kokotg]

DS's college sent out an e-mail saying that online classes are a last resort and that they're considering shifting the calendar to start later in the fall if necessary. They also say they're planning to make a decision by June 1, which seems...optimistic. We'll see. I don't know that a November start date vs. a September start date is going to make much difference. It's a small college in a state that seems to have a pretty good handle on things, so I think they have a better shot at restarting safely than some places. But it's still a college campus with dorms and dining halls and all that.

[Tess in the Burbs]

my daughter is going to attend university out of state come fall and orientation already shifted to July.  Changed our reservations(for another $650!).  I'm hoping they won't change to online b/c then I'm out a lot of money for flights.  Her program is offered entirely online but she wanted to do campus for 2 years.   They also have mandatory in person summer sessions to graduate in 4 years, so I will be watching to see how they handle the current students this summer.  

I want to believe they can make it work to be on campus. THere are some students still living there in the dorms and getting take out meals from the dining hall.  If they cancel fall in person she may just shift to all online and that would make her so sad

[MerryAtHope]

My son's school is waiting to decide. I hope they wait until July also. Our “ Peak” was just moved to mid May, so it looks like a while before the stay at home order will be lifted here. I hope they give it as much time as they are able before deciding. 

[easypeasy]

9 hours ago, Kassia said:

 

 It's so hard planning for an OOS trip and all the dorm stuff not knowing if it's going to be needed or not.  And she would schedule differently if she were going to be online vs. on campus, too.

 

YESSSS! DD has her classes picked out for first semester, but her school's in another timezone. An 8 am class is "manageable" for an earlybird type on-campus, but she's not going to love a 7 am if she's here at home! She had to forego a popular professor's class because she wouldn't have time to completely cross campus... but if it's online... well, she should sign up! 🤯

And she's picking stuff out for her dorm. Ideally, I would like to start ordering stuff NOW and spread out the ordering/cost of it all. But if classes are online, we have to find a place to store all that stuff... but if I tell her we should wait on ordering "just in case," she's so sad. She's already taken a gap year & felt like she postponed part of her life due to that decision (and she's correct, even though it was the right decision, she did sacrifice many things for it) - postponing fall semester is not a good place for her mentally.

I hope her school waits until July to make a call and I hopehopehope they can do classes on campus in the fall. I honestly can't imagine a whole country of young people just sitting at home, twiddling their thumbs from March-December of 2020!! None of my kids' summer jobs are going to be hiring/opening anytime soon... What are these thousands of young adults supposed to DO? Sit at home for an entire 3/4 of a YEAR? That surely can't be healthy for them at this age of development.

UGH! I hate this limbo.

Maybe they could live on campus, but have certain classes online at the teacher's preference... I dunno. Something!! I can't fathom how schools are going to stay in business with refunding half-semesters of spring 2020 and having all-online for fall 2020. That is an unfathomable amount of $.

The scientists and researchers working on this are at the very top of my prayer list. Man, let's find a fix for this ASAP!!! 😕

Edited April 22, 2020 by easypeasy

[Bootsie]

18 hours ago, regentrude said:

and how are they going to fund the operation of the university during the fall semester? You can't simply dissolve a university and fire all staff and (tenured) faculty and then expect to have a university again in the spring. A college is not a pop-up boutique. 

I see that the Univ of Michigan is offering voluntary furlough and reduced hours to staff members and that individuals in executive positions have taken pay cuts.  I had not considered how universities with medical schools could be even more severely impacted financially due to falling revenue streams from medical services provided.

[Tess in the Burbs]

Well my dd's college just cancelled on campus orientation this summer.  

 

Now I am getting doubtful about fall since it usually starts mid August.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Tess in the Burbs

[Eos]

*

Edited February 6, 2023 by Eos

[HollyDay]

so far dd's college is summer on line and hopefully fall in person.  She has registered for classes (both online and in person) and has a dorm room assignment for Fall.  She has labs next semester so I would think that has to be done in person......I guess we will see. 

[chiguirre]

We got the first email from our Houston area CC switching a class from in person to online. It's environmental geology so it's not as big a deal as a chem lab or bio lab. Many of the activities they did in the first semester physical geology class didn't involve lab equipment. They mainly used rock samples, maps and a field trip. 

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure this is just the first class that was switched and that we'll be getting 3 more emails shortly. 

[MamaSprout]

The uni I work for announced yesterday their plans to open in person in August, with protocols in place still to be announced. They are setting housing aside to be able to quarantine students as needed.

[whitestavern]

Those that have shared what your colleges are doing, would you be willing to share the name of the institution? I understand if you would rather not. Just curiosity really. 

[G5052]

On 4/14/2020 at 5:11 PM, regentrude said:

An add to that any possible layoffs at public institutions that face massive budget cuts because they won't receive their state funding since the states are broke - can't get tax revenue when nobody is working. Our governor already announced huge cuts, and it's higher ed that will bear the brunt. Who knows whether there will even be adjuncts.

 

Just got an email from my college's president after lunch that they will announce their decision on Monday when they open registration.

Earlier they announced that all summer classes would be online but that full-time, 12-month faculty would get fewer hours but first dibs, 9-month faculty would get second dibs, and then only a limited number of part-time professors/adjuncts would get sections and that they should be prepared to be bumped. Thankfully I got two sections, but normally I teach three as a 3/4 time professor. One is full because it was the only one offered in the entire college, so I'm probably OK there. I could get bumped on the other one because all of the other sections are taught by full-timers. A lot to be thankful about though. Today I signed the contract for summer. 

So, I peeked at the unpublished fall schedule of classes, and it looks like they've cut the number of sections of classroom sections of the ones I teach by about 40% with no adjuncts scheduled. The classroom sections have rooms assigned, so maybe they are going to have some face-to-face classes? There is the same number of online sections scheduled as we had in January, but no professors have been assigned yet. 

It's a little maddening because I'm the breadwinner with multiple jobs that are thus far going forward, but I've never been this uncertain about my teaching schedule. I got bumped by a full-time faculty member in the early 2000's when the college I was working for then grew a little too quickly, but otherwise my classes have always made just fine. 

[G5052]

Double

Edited April 24, 2020 by G5052

[G5052]

Well, I just got an email from my dean that I will have four sections in the fall. The electronic contract will follow.

I looked again at the schedule, and they've cut back further on every type of section. No adjuncts or part-timers are currently scheduled, so I guess that's what they are doing today. They are filling in the remaining gaps, which aren't many. 

[Arcadia]

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Here-s-a-List-of-Colleges-/248626

“Who's In, Who's Online

Following is an alphabetical list of colleges that have either disclosed their plans, mentioned them in news reports, or set a deadline for deciding:

Beloit College — shifting to a “module based semester” to allow flexibility to move toward either online or in-person classes

Boston University — leaning toward in-person classes

Brown University — leaning toward in-person classes

California State University at Fullerton — starting fall semester online

Centre College — block-schedulingcourses in shorter segments to allow flexibility to shift toward either in-person or remote learning

Clemson University — exploring a range of scenarios, from in-person classes to entirely online

Cornell University — no decisionexpected until June

Montana State University — planningfor the return of students in the fall, subject to guidance from a task force

Ohio State University — leaning toward in-person classes, with a final decision by late June

Purdue University — planning to start fall semester in person if testing and contact tracing allows

San Jose State University — planning to conduct classes mostly or entirely online

Southern New Hampshire University — planning to allow students to move into dorms, and is offering full tuition scholarships to incoming freshmen

Stanford University — expects to make a decision in May, but might delay fall quarter till winter

University of Arizona — planning to hold in-person classes

University of Central Florida — leaningtoward in-person classes

University of Maine system — planningfor in-person classes

University of Maryland system — planning to start in-person, but some larger classes may be online

University of Michigan — hoping to hold classes in-person

University of Missouri — planning for in-person classes

Washington State University — planning for in-person classes

Wayne State University — leaningtoward starting fall classes online

West Virginia University — exploring a range of scenarios, from in-person to entirely online

William Jewell College — intends to open for fall semester”

 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Sorry-responded to the wrong thread...

Edited April 24, 2020 by JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst

[Bootsie]

Our provost just sent a letter to faculty about the fall.  We are supposed to prepare for all of four situations:  (1) on campus (2) modified on campus (3) online and (4) dual  Courses are to be redesigned and syllabi to reflect how we will operate in all four scenarios.  

[TarynB]

The university my son is planning to attend announced this today regarding the fall 2020 semester: "After careful deliberation, our intention is to return to in-person educational operations . . . offering traditional instruction and residential life."

[easypeasy]

Indications of our local/state universities are that they plan to have in-person classes in the fall but are making contingency plans just in case.

Man, I hope that's what happens. DDs intended OOS university has said that they are planning for all situations and will make a decision at a later time. I'm just grateful they didn't pull the plug early!!