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Posted

While I am happy that DD’s dual enrollment classes at the nearby university went online last month due to COVID-19, one of her professors seems to be just dialing it in for “instruction.” I wonder how many students are having to teach themselves material from a PowerPoint their professor posted for them to learn from? Of course she has the textbook for the class, but I expected more than that.

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Posted

I'm curious if your dd's school decided to grade pass/fail, or if they are still planning traditional grades? One criticism of p/f grade assignments was it would remove incentive from the teachers to put in the (sometimes major) effort to make a successful online class out of a previously in-person class.

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Posted

I am not sure what kind of answers you are expecting. There will certainly be profs who are in over their head; they may not be tech savvy, may not have internet connection at home and may no longer be allowed to teach from campus, or may juggle working from home with caring for little children or eldercare issues.
Has she contacted the professor and asked for more material? What is the subject?

All the faculty I know are doing a lot more. They create videos for asynchronous learning or teach synchronous via Zoom or Panopto and record their lessons for students who cannot sign on at the designated class time. For my course, I provide video lectures to go with the Powerpoints , practice worksheets, interactive quizzes, worked out problems, and Zoom sessions for homework help. It's a TON more work than teaching in person.
The course I am taking as a student provides lecture videos with quizzes as incentive and discussion prompts that have to be answered in writing; the professor responds individually with short video responses.

Our school has changed to pass/fail as an option students may choose. Instructors are still expected to give letter grades.

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Posted

I know it's tough.  My dd does have to do a lot of self-teaching, but the professors are reeling, too.  I think they are just now almost finding a good routine.  It's taking some time to work out the kinks.  Our school has offered pass/no pass but you have to opt in.  My dd has mostly all A's and needs them for her program, plus she is working incredibly hard, so she's taking her earned grades.  Online is definitely tougher, though.  

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Posted

I think it varies a lot depending on the professor, the access to technology, and the subject matter.  Some material that I teach, I can do most easily with PowerPoints with imbedded sound.  That way a student can go back and hear a 45-second explanation of a part of a problem without having to find the particular spot in a video.  

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Posted

Bookworm, yes, that has been exactly my son's experience in his DE class this semester too. Teaching himself from a powerpoint and the textbook. No discussion or lecture. Some weeks there is a ~5 minute(!) pre-recorded video of the prof, but not all weeks, and it is just to introduce the topic, and doesn't cover anything that's not in the powerpoint or text. The school has adopted the policy that the profs will give letter grades at the end of the semester and then the students can choose pass/fail if they want. This is not the school that DS plans to attend in the fall as in incoming freshman, but this experience is making us consider whether he should take a gap year because no one knows yet if in-person classes will happen this fall.

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Posted

I'm mostly just ranting. Yes, the university is allowing pass/fail, but not for dual enrolled students. Thankfully DD has an A in the class, which is a social science elective. She hasn't spoken to the professor about it mainly because she is OK learning on her own for the subject. Her other professor (for Geology) does some Zoom sessions and also records a lecture at least once/week for them. I do feel badly for the professors, who were thrown into digital teaching. It's a tough time all around, for both students and professors. And tonight DD got word that her first time in college summer session will be online. I do worry about how that will go, and hope all the kinks have been worked out of online instruction by then. 

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Posted

@TarynB When this pandemic panic started here in the U.S., my DD brought up a gap year. I thought it was ridiculous at first, but now I'm not so sure. The only problem with a gap year is if she would have to reapply -- some universities don't allow a gap year. Perhaps there would be exceptions made for the coronavirus. And I just think of all the knowledge that may be partially forgotten with a gap year...  I am sure college admissions is already pondering what will happen if fall semester is online. Perhaps not just freshmen will want to do a gap year.

@Bootsie What a great idea to put audio explanations in your Powerpoints! Maybe you could sell best practices for online teaching on Udemy!

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Posted

My sons courses have been all over the map. His Physics teacher had everything figured out within a week and it was super organized but DS said he is just an amazing organizer. The one teacher who has only managed to give them one assignment has always struggled to give clear concise instruction and directions for homework. DS says it's harder to figure out what the assignment is than to actually learn and work with the material but that was true when he was in the physical class too.

 

Multiple professors do Zoom lectures and students can ask questions. One teacher just does pre recorded videos but has focused more on making herself available for students to ask questions with office hours/email etc. Programming is still done in the computer lab and students have to connect but DS is finding it easier since he doesn't have to schedule specific hours to work on it. I'm not sure why since you would think if he is using a computer virtually they would still have one student per computer. Maybe they just upload when their program is done? I have no idea.

DS is an Electrical Engineer/Math major with Econ minor and that probably makes a difference. The Physics labs were of less quality than high school labs (with more expensive equipment) so he isn't toi worried about that but we have major concerns with labs when he gets to mostly engineering classes.

 

I think if you have a decent instructor (an issue no matter when you go to school) it's a good time to get general ed credits done. You can't travel. A lot of other opportunities will be off the table so you also have to ask what your alternatives are.

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Posted

Overall, I have to add I'm thankful for the vast majority of my son's teachers and how they have pulled through. I do know some have more challenges than others.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, frogger said:

I think if you have a decent instructor (an issue no matter when you go to school) it's a good time to get general ed credits done. You can't travel. A lot of other opportunities will be off the table so you also have to ask what your alternatives are.

All true. DS is thinking hard about what his options might be for next year. His intended major requires courses that can't be done virtually (lab classes). Current students are having to take incompletes in them, no online option. He's already done many of the gen eds by DE, unfortunately. If he takes a gap year, he may not be able to travel like a normal gap year kid would, but he can gain more work experience, earn money, continue volunteering with the organization he has been helping with online, devote time to learning practical skills that will benefit his future career. He already has an online part-time job and has been offered an internship that can be done at-home virtually. He has a health condition that affects his lungs and makes him higher-risk. Does anyone really think colleges might re-open to in-person classes but keep their dorms closed? We are rural, no colleges nearby, so if dorms don't open, DS can't commute or can't go off to college as planned, and I'm not sure I want him living in a dorm until there's a vaccine anyway. Just thinking out loud, no way to make decisions at this point.

Edited by TarynB
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Posted
4 hours ago, TarynB said:

 Does anyone really think colleges might re-open to in-person classes but keep their dorms closed? 

I can't imagine how this is supposed to work for schools other than community colleges. Where are students supposed to live???

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Posted
3 hours ago, regentrude said:

I can't imagine how this is supposed to work for schools other than community colleges. Where are students supposed to live???

 

For sure! DD1s school is around a 25-hour drive away. DD2s is around 12. No commuting for my kids! lol

In DDs case, she's already taken a gap year. We don't need another one!! She'll be an elderly freshman! 🥴  But... getting a music performance degree via online is utterly useless. DD will be a freshman, but her future classmates will already have a half-semester of online. If they come back to online classes in the fall, a semester-and-a-half of their 8-semester degree would be online!!! That just can't work!!! 😕

Likewise, the STEM kids need labs. Future engineers and such need those labs to be fully educated. Period. They can't have a semester-and-a-half of online stuff.

Right?

Maybe the universities will be forced to accept credits from other institutions and waive the old requirements. DD could commute to a closer university and take those classes there. But, I know that's not an option for everyone, especially those in rural or over-populated areas.

This all hurts my wee, tired brain.

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Posted
4 hours ago, easypeasy said:

the STEM kids need labs. Future engineers and such need those labs to be fully educated. Period. They can't have a semester-and-a-half of online stuff. Right?

Actually, they can. I can imagine different scenarios to accommodate that, like lab intensives and block schedules. It is not necessary to have labs every single semester; you can bundle them up if that becomes necessary. (For example,  my physics majors have physics lab classes in five semesters only. Many other disciplines are similar)

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Posted
3 hours ago, regentrude said:

Actually, they can. I can imagine different scenarios to accommodate that, like lab intensives and block schedules. It is not necessary to have labs every single semester; you can bundle them up if that becomes necessary. (For example,  my physics majors have physics lab classes in five semesters only. Many other disciplines are similar)

One example would be the Open University degrees. I looked them up a while ago because I wondered how they did science -- it looked like they did lab intensives that were onsite and a week or so long. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/8/2020 at 8:11 AM, regentrude said:

Actually, they can. I can imagine different scenarios to accommodate that, like lab intensives and block schedules. It is not necessary to have labs every single semester; you can bundle them up if that becomes necessary. (For example,  my physics majors have physics lab classes in five semesters only. Many other disciplines are similar)

I've been thinking about this. Are you saying colleges could have lab intensives in-person even if everything else is shut down and limited to online? If the virus is still a threat, it is still a threat. Even for in-person lab intensives. No way I'd accept that risk.

Edited by TarynB
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, TarynB said:

I've been thinking about this. Maybe I'm missing your point, but if the virus is still a threat, it is still a threat. Even for in-person lab intensives. No way I'd accept that risk.

my point was that you can do online classes for however long you need and then wait to do the labs in person when it is safe, and do them intensive in a short amount of time. I was not advocating doing in person lab intensives now.

Edited by regentrude
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Posted
Just now, regentrude said:

my point is that you can do online classes for however long you need and then wait to do the lab in person when it is safe, and do them intensive in a short amount of time

OK, thanks for explaining. Might work for some majors, but not others (life science) - way too much ground has to be covered to make it all up at the end.

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TarynB said:

OK, thanks for explaining. Might work for some majors, but not others (life science) - way too much ground has to be covered to make it all up at the end.

It will have to. People will have to develop ingenuity. So, teach the theory during lockdown, redesign the labs so that they can be consolidated.  The alternative would be not teaching anything at all now and that clearly does not make sense either. People will come up with ideas to make it work. They will have to - we can't say let's just put college on hold because it's less than the ideal education and let's simply not graduate any teachers because they can't do the amount of student teaching required by the rules, let's not graduate any nurses because they don't get in their clinical hours, etc - society will get creative and find a way. The less than perfect education is still better than telling the young people, sorry, you have to waste a year of your life watching netflix because we can't do in person labs.

)

Edited by regentrude
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Posted
38 minutes ago, regentrude said:

It will have to. People will have to develop ingenuity. So, teach the theory during lockdown, redesign the labs so that they can be consolidated.  The alternative would be not teaching anything at all now and that clearly does not make sense either. People will come up with ideas to make it work. They will have to - we can't say let's just put college on hold because it's less than the ideal education and let's simply not graduate any teachers because they can't do the amount of student teaching required by the rules, let's not graduate any nurses because they don't get in their clinical hours, etc - society will get creative and find a way. The less than perfect education is still better than telling the young people, sorry, you have to waste a year of your life watching netflix because we can't do in person labs.

)

I really hope you're right. I can't imagine a world where our future doctors and nurses and all other healthcare workers don't learn what they NEED to learn by getting a hands-on education. I also hope that many of your fellow educators take the same dedicated approach that you obviously do.

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Posted
On 4/7/2020 at 2:34 PM, frogger said:

My sons courses have been all over the map. His Physics teacher had everything figured out within a week and it was super organized but DS said he is just an amazing organizer. The one teacher who has only managed to give them one assignment has always struggled to give clear concise instruction and directions for homework. DS says it's harder to figure out what the assignment is than to actually learn and work with the material but that was true when he was in the physical class too.

 

Multiple professors do Zoom lectures and students can ask questions. One teacher just does pre recorded videos but has focused more on making herself available for students to ask questions with office hours/email etc. Programming is still done in the computer lab and students have to connect but DS is finding it easier since he doesn't have to schedule specific hours to work on it. I'm not sure why since you would think if he is using a computer virtually they would still have one student per computer. Maybe they just upload when their program is done? I have no idea.

DS is an Electrical Engineer/Math major with Econ minor and that probably makes a difference. The Physics labs were of less quality than high school labs (with more expensive equipment) so he isn't toi worried about that but we have major concerns with labs when he gets to mostly engineering classes.

 

I think if you have a decent instructor (an issue no matter when you go to school) it's a good time to get general ed credits done. You can't travel. A lot of other opportunities will be off the table so you also have to ask what your alternatives are.

Many of DD's college classes in the fall are mostly face to face, hands-on type stuff (beyond labs - videos would be useless), and this is what I have advised her.  Her problem is that she has a year of credits of gen ed already done as high school dual-enrolled, and that means she has to start digging into her major coursework for things that can be put online.  Given required sequencing and pre-reqs for higher level classes, she has some really limited options if they don't start up in fall.

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Posted

I've been really impressed with the way DS's profs have adapted to online classes, especially since only one has ever taught online before, and one didn't even use Canvas (the syllabus and all assignments were hard copies handed out in class). They are all holding classes via Zoom during the normal meeting hours, and then posting the recordings online for anyone who can't (or doesn't want to) attend the live class. They are also holding online office hours, and have been available to FaceTime or chat outside of those hours. Discussions have also moved online, and although that's obviously not as good as in-person discussion, it's working pretty well. All profs are giving letter grades, although students can choose P/F if they want.

I hope that at least the smaller classes will be in-person this fall. DS is registered for 2 that are very small (6 & 8), two that are medium (18 & 31) and one that is online anyway. One of the small ones is foreign language, so he really hopes that's in person. The class of 31 is a major requirement, and I could see them maybe splitting that into two classes, or having the main lectures be online and then having two discussions sessions. The biggest issue for DS will be athletics — if all sports are cancelled, then he will have to decide whether to take a gap year or not. At the very least I hope they allow sports with no spectators (which will have zero impact on his sport, lol), but since the football revenue basically subsidizes the entire athletic program, plus part of the school's nonathletic expenses, they may choose to just cancel all sports for the full year. ☹️

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Posted

ds2's online classes have been fine. Not for him, as he despises learning this way- but he agrees the professors have done quite well.

dd1 (and her classmates) have found that online is not a good substitute for  in-person learning in law school. And as most of them are footing the bill- they are pretty cranky. Her largest class is 30 people. Nobody lives in a dorm- tuition is shockingly high. They would like to see better instruction for their money.

Regarding sports- If football can't go this fall- most schools are going to cut men's non-revenue sports as quickly and quietly as they can. dd2 is not interested in taking a gap year- that would be another year of hard training with her club team to stay in shape and online classes at home. I see that as a mental health disaster for my girl. She is already struggling with all the hard work she did to rehab from surgery with no results to show for the work. And no way to train for the last 4 weeks, plus the loss of all senior things... no good choices coming up.

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Posted

I was attending a webinar hosted by Harvard Business School about teaching online, and they have found that professors almost half of the professors (I think it was 48%) are saying that online teaching is taking at least 150% more time than in class teaching.  There were also discussion about how to expect to get at most 80% of what you get in an in-person class covered.

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