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Five states NOT doing shelter in place


BlsdMama
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Our governor is taking a lot of heat here in Iowa. 
 

We don’t have a shelter in place. I was a strong proponent of work at home and stay at home, but I feel (surprisingly) comfortable with her decision. I feel people have made huge lifestyle changes here. 
 

I live in one of the top three counties, which is to be expected - major cities, higher numbers. 
I’m a registered independent so it’s not political for me. I know she is attempting to salvage our normally great economy. That said she has shut down schools and a shocking number of workplaces. Thoughts?

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My governor thinks Arkansas residents are behaving responsibly and voluntarily staying at home without a shelter in place order.  He still plans to reopen schools in mid-April.*  He is very concerned about people from out-of-state traveling to Arkansas and crowding our parks.  

I have been watching our health department's CORVID-19 website. The scale is adjusted every few days.  This makes it less obvious that the situation is becoming worse.

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TN is officially on SIP as of today. My city has been on it for awhile now (which, I suspect, is contributing to AR's load on parks, etc, because they're all closed and parking lots blocked off on this side of the bridge, but it's so easy to drive across....). I hope it's enough. 

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Good question @BlsdMama I am on the fence right now. I feel like the restrictions put in place here in IA are very similar to other states that have an SIP. 

BUT, I do feel like there are too many people with no common sense, and people who are still seeing this as "Most people won't get a bad case so why should I care". 

BUT, I do like going for walks with the dogs and kids. This has been a great time to teach my youngest to drive since the roads are quieter. 

Like you I am not looking at this through a political lens. I like some of her views and not others. 

Kelly

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I live across the border in a neighboring state. I am seeing tons of eastern Iowa residents complaining on social media about people there not taking COVID-19 seriously. They are saying the stores are packed, the parks are packed, people are having parties, etc. There is much anger at the governor.

Also, the horse auction attended by almost 600 Amish and Mennonites from six states was in the national news today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8187765/Iowa-horse-auction-draws-close-600-SIX-STATES-including-dozens-Amish-families.html

 

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My mind cannot fathom a situation where California and NY are reeling with deaths that make all other disasters in recent memory look small in comparison and the fortunate states which are not ravaged by it yet are not grabbing the opportunity to stop this virus when they have a chance. So, which states are still not doing a SIP directive? I am guessing that most of them are in the midwest because it takes some time for the infections to drift inland?

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As of Monday afternoon, Nevada, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa and Arkansas have no mandatory shelter-in-place directives at the city or state level.

https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/article/states-with-no-shelter-in-place-orders-15166557.php

The Dakotas and Nebraska have very few people per square mile and very few deaths from Coronavirus.  Outside of Little Rock and the surrounding area, most of Arkansas is very rural.  Nevada and Iowa are probably similar, rural except for a limited city or cities.  The Dakotas have about 10 people per square mile on average.

ETA: I see that Nevada has since dropped off the list, I found an older article.

Edited by ElizabethB
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We have a governor that was late to the shelter in place order. People were clamoring for it and he finally issued it what seemed like reluctantly. But it made no difference that I could see. All the neighboring areas had already put it in at the local level. In fact our local local orders still go beyond what the governor ordered. People locally were calling for it and then seemed a little disappointed when they realized it didn’t change anything for our little city or the two nearest medium sized cities. I have no idea what things were like on the ground in the rest of the state but I don’t assume a governor not issuing the order means the state is running wild and ignoring the problem.

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20 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

My mind cannot fathom a situation where California and NY are reeling with deaths that make all other disasters in recent memory look small in comparison and the fortunate states which are not ravaged by it yet are not grabbing the opportunity to stop this virus when they have a chance. So, which states are still not doing a SIP directive? I am guessing that most of them are in the midwest because it takes some time for the infections to drift inland?

Iowa already has 19 deaths and 786 confirmed cases, and no SIP.

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I live in Massachusetts.  Our governor has explicitly not ordered shelter in place, despite plenty of clamor for it. Encouragement to not be out unnecessarily, sure, but it's very loosely defined.  It's an advisory.  Some towns have issued stricter limitations.  So, I am not sure what the criteria for that report are.   

Our county has the highest case count in the state at over 2500.  My son left the house today for the first time in more than two weeks.  He wanted to take some pictures near a lake.  He came home without getting out of the car.  He was shocked at how thick the crowds were on the trails and just hanging out in general.

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North Dakota has 3 deaths, 186 positive tests, 6021 negatives.  South Dakota has 2 deaths, 212 positive tests, 5012 negatives. With numbers this low, you can do contact tracing and quarantine contacts.  I think Idaho is still doing contact tracing and quarantining, even with 1,000 cases and 10 deaths, they have the state divided into several different health districts with the ability to contact trace; the 1,000 cases is from the beginning, so there are not too many new cases if you keep up and each health district does a few.

 

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My youngest wants to go to a state park near us to hike, but I saw a recent picture a friend took. The parking lot was packed. I told her no, we'd wait until there weren't so many people out and about. They have threatened to close the state parks if people can't be reasonable. 

We've stuck to walking the dogs around town, crossing the street when others are coming. We have gone to a county park nearby, but didn't come into contact with anyone. We would have turned around if the parking lot had been full.

Kelly

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16 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

North Dakota has 3 deaths, 186 positive tests, 6021 negatives.  South Dakota has 2 deaths, 212 positive tests, 5012 negatives. With numbers this low, you can do contact tracing and quarantine contacts.  I think Idaho is still doing contact tracing and quarantining, even with 1,000 cases and 10 deaths, they have the state divided into several different health districts with the ability to contact trace; the 1,000 cases is from the beginning, so there are not too many new cases if you keep up and each health district does a few.

 

I used to live in South Dakota.  Even without a shelter in place edict, you could go a LONG time without seeing people, unless you were maybe in Sioux Falls or Rapid City.  I'm actually more worried about places like Florida that have shelter in place edicts that don't seem to actually really prohibit anything than I am about the Dakotas or Nebraska or Idaho (although the ski areas were a problem).  

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15 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

North Dakota has 3 deaths, 186 positive tests, 6021 negatives.  South Dakota has 2 deaths, 212 positive tests, 5012 negatives. With numbers this low, you can do contact tracing and quarantine contacts.  I think Idaho is still doing contact tracing and quarantining, even with 1,000 cases and 10 deaths, they have the state divided into several different health districts with the ability to contact trace; the 1,000 cases is from the beginning, so there are not too many new cases if you keep up and each health district does a few.

 

To me, the sad thing about the Dakotas, is that the Native Americans there, are often in high risk categories. They are very family oriented (lots of public and private gatherings), so it will be hard to contain it starts to move around. I assume (don't know for certain), the reservations do not have to abide by state laws, so even if they do issue a state wide SIP order, it won't apply to them anyways. I have friends on the Lakota Sioux Reservation, and it saddens me to think that they are in a higher risk category.

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11 minutes ago, Tap said:

To me, the sad thing about the Dakotas, is that the Native Americans there, are often in high risk categories. They are very family oriented (lots of public and private gatherings), so it will be hard to contain it starts to move around. I assume (don't know for certain), the reservations do not have to abide by state laws, so even if they do issue a state wide SIP order, it won't apply to them anyways. I have friends on the Lakota Sioux Reservation, and it saddens me to think that they are in a higher risk category.

It looks like they are getting some of the rapid tests and people are aware of their vulnerability and trying to make plans to help.

https://www.keloland.com/keloland-com-original/after-years-of-troubles-can-indian-health-service-handle-covid-19-pandemic-in-south-dakota/

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5 hours ago, Tap said:

To me, the sad thing about the Dakotas, is that the Native Americans there, are often in high risk categories. They are very family oriented (lots of public and private gatherings), so it will be hard to contain it starts to move around. I assume (don't know for certain), the reservations do not have to abide by state laws, so even if they do issue a state wide SIP order, it won't apply to them anyways. I have friends on the Lakota Sioux Reservation, and it saddens me to think that they are in a higher risk category.

I am not in the US but can the reservations blockade themselves off for the duration?

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So, with all the hubbub I decided to see how Shelter-in-Place is defined.

For goodness' sakes, from what I can see this is nothing but a label we are already submitting to.  SMH.

https://www.wired.com/story/whats-shelter-place-order-whos-affected/

All non essentials have been shut down.  It might not be an "official" SIP but she asked everyone to stay home and closed everything - hair salons, malls, restaurants are only allowed to operate if the customer can get the meal without gathering and go, we need to be in a group of less than 11, churches are closed.  Target, Wal-Mart, Costco all have limits on people in the store. Schools have been closed and will remain closed until May 1 at the earliest potential date.

 I cannot figure out what else could be done?  I will say as a manufacturing state, we do have more "essential" businesses up and running.  DH and our son in law work for the same essential company.  DH is management and has been asked to work from home.   SIL is production and has been asked to work.  However, as of Friday night he was exposed to a person who was positive during the work week, so he is now home on a mandatory self isolation for 14 days. 

I fail to see how Iowa is different from other places that have the official Shelter in Place order. If your state is different than this - how so? I'm curious.

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1 hour ago, BlsdMama said:

So, with all the hubbub I decided to see how Shelter-in-Place is defined.

For goodness' sakes, from what I can see this is nothing but a label we are already submitting to.  SMH.

https://www.wired.com/story/whats-shelter-place-order-whos-affected/

All non essentials have been shut down.  It might not be an "official" SIP but she asked everyone to stay home and closed everything - hair salons, malls, restaurants are only allowed to operate if the customer can get the meal without gathering and go, we need to be in a group of less than 11, churches are closed.  Target, Wal-Mart, Costco all have limits on people in the store. Schools have been closed and will remain closed until May 1 at the earliest potential date.

 I cannot figure out what else could be done?  I will say as a manufacturing state, we do have more "essential" businesses up and running.  DH and our son in law work for the same essential company.  DH is management and has been asked to work from home.   SIL is production and has been asked to work.  However, as of Friday night he was exposed to a person who was positive during the work week, so he is now home on a mandatory self isolation for 14 days. 

I fail to see how Iowa is different from other places that have the official Shelter in Place order. If your state is different than this - how so? I'm curious.

 

All non-essential businesses and facilities are closed and it comes with ENFORCEMENT POWER. No national parks. No beaches. No dentists. No elective surgeries (oral, physical or otherwise). If you're not manufacturing/producing something to combat the virus or keep people home/medicated, you're closed. If you're not selling something people need, like food/TP, you're closed. If you're not manufacturing masks or processing packages of the same, you're closed. If the work you do requires more than 10 people to accomplish and you cannot maintain distandce? You're closed. My landscaper is still working. His crew is 4 ppl.

Edited by Sneezyone
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1 hour ago, BlsdMama said:

So, with all the hubbub I decided to see how Shelter-in-Place is defined.

For goodness' sakes, from what I can see this is nothing but a label we are already submitting to.  SMH.

https://www.wired.com/story/whats-shelter-place-order-whos-affected/

All non essentials have been shut down.  It might not be an "official" SIP but she asked everyone to stay home and closed everything - hair salons, malls, restaurants are only allowed to operate if the customer can get the meal without gathering and go, we need to be in a group of less than 11, churches are closed.  Target, Wal-Mart, Costco all have limits on people in the store. Schools have been closed and will remain closed until May 1 at the earliest potential date.

 I cannot figure out what else could be done?  I will say as a manufacturing state, we do have more "essential" businesses up and running.  DH and our son in law work for the same essential company.  DH is management and has been asked to work from home.   SIL is production and has been asked to work.  However, as of Friday night he was exposed to a person who was positive during the work week, so he is now home on a mandatory self isolation for 14 days. 

I fail to see how Iowa is different from other places that have the official Shelter in Place order. If your state is different than this - how so? I'm curious.

In Scotland we are not allowed to gather at all. You are only allowed to have contact with those you actually live with. Everyone else is two metres separation - even family.

Non essential travel is also banned. You can exercise from your home (walk, run, cycle); buy food or pick up medicines; carry out essential caring; attend medical appts; travel to work if you absolutely can't work from home.

Edited by Laura Corin
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4 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

So, with all the hubbub I decided to see how Shelter-in-Place is defined.

For goodness' sakes, from what I can see this is nothing but a label we are already submitting to.  SMH.

https://www.wired.com/story/whats-shelter-place-order-whos-affected/

All non essentials have been shut down.  It might not be an "official" SIP but she asked everyone to stay home and closed everything - hair salons, malls, restaurants are only allowed to operate if the customer can get the meal without gathering and go, we need to be in a group of less than 11, churches are closed.  Target, Wal-Mart, Costco all have limits on people in the store. Schools have been closed and will remain closed until May 1 at the earliest potential date.

 I cannot figure out what else could be done?  I will say as a manufacturing state, we do have more "essential" businesses up and running.  DH and our son in law work for the same essential company.  DH is management and has been asked to work from home.   SIL is production and has been asked to work.  However, as of Friday night he was exposed to a person who was positive during the work week, so he is now home on a mandatory self isolation for 14 days. 

I fail to see how Iowa is different from other places that have the official Shelter in Place order. If your state is different than this - how so? I'm curious.

Yeah, I was going to post yesterday that you already have SIP as defined by MN, your governor is just not calling it that. The only difference I see is that we are not supposed to gather at all. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 8:56 PM, ElizabethB said:

North Dakota has 3 deaths, 186 positive tests, 6021 negatives.  South Dakota has 2 deaths, 212 positive tests, 5012 negatives. With numbers this low, you can do contact tracing and quarantine contacts.  

If they are testing. Nebraska does not have enough tests, so they are refusing to test you unless 1) you are in the hospital, 2) you've traveled to a hot spot recently, 3) you work with or are part of a vulnerable population, or 4) you have "connections." [Nebraska lists 367 positives, 8 deaths. We have community spread, so the case numbers are way off.]

Nebraska is not in a shelter in place, but the governor's Directed Health measures are close to Stay At Home level & are enforceable. Of course, that doesn't mean every one is being smart.

Edited by RootAnn
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37 minutes ago, TracyP said:

Yeah, I was going to post yesterday that you already have SIP as defined by MN, your governor is just not calling it that. The only difference I see is that we are not supposed to gather at all. 

The people I know are taking this seriously and are not gathering even when they technically are allowed. I went grocery shopping last week. Dh didn't leave our property at all. It is his turn to work in the office this week. I will probably go grocery shopping again this week. I'd like for him to stop and get some fruit trees, because I was too late last year. But I am still debating whether or not it would be worth the extra stop.

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Kelly,

I read only Tap's and Farrar's replies and agree with those.  

It's not political.  It matters not, to me, if the gov is rep or dem.  A poor decision is a poor decision - either party.   It's not or shouldn't be about the "right" or "authority" to make that call to s.i.p.  These governors need to look beyond their self and state and think what is good for the country as a whole.  We are "united" states.  Individual yet united as one.  

I have wondered about the nw plain states and how remote they are with a sparse population.  But, it only takes 1 person to set a chain reaction so even in Utah, Idaho, etc. and all other states, EVERY state should be following the same procedure.   

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So today’s press conference included law enforcement. They will be enforcing the governor’s requests and closures.   There was a heavy emphasis on personal responsibility but it was clearly stated the requests will be endorced. Essentially we are SIP with no formal label. 
 

I understand her request for resisting it but I would say that the general public seems to be incapable of asking, “What is a SIP? What am I hoping for beyond what exists?”

 

We are seeing an insane DEMAND to be tested just for the sake of knowing which really has little value if you’re not terribly ill, high risk, or going out. 

Edited by BlsdMama
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4 hours ago, sheryl said:

Kelly,

I read only Tap's and Farrar's replies and agree with those.  

It's not political.  It matters not, to me, if the gov is rep or dem.  A poor decision is a poor decision - either party.   It's not or shouldn't be about the "right" or "authority" to make that call to s.i.p.  These governors need to look beyond their self and state and think what is good for the country as a whole.  We are "united" states.  Individual yet united as one.  

I have wondered about the nw plain states and how remote they are with a sparse population.  But, it only takes 1 person to set a chain reaction so even in Utah, Idaho, etc. and all other states, EVERY state should be following the same procedure.   

If she ordered an SIP I would absolutely comply. What she has already done is about the same thing as those with an SIP. The only difference as far as I can tell is enforcement. In an SIP I wouldn't be able to go out driving with my dd if it weren't necessary. I would get pulled over and ticketed or warned I'm assuming. 

ETA: I just figured out you might have been talking to the other Kelly from Iowa 🙂

Kelly

Edited by SquirrellyMama
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1 hour ago, BlsdMama said:

We are seeing an insane DEMAND to be tested just for the sake of knowing which really has little value if you’re not terribly ill, high risk, or going out. 

Let me give a real life example to illustrate where testing is needed but not allowed in my state at this time. A spouse of a critical infrastructure worker travelled to Colorado. Less than a week after return, the travelling spouse started to exhibit symptoms of Covid-19. The critical infrastructure spouse would like to know if it is necessary for him to quarantine at home until he either catches & recovers or she recovers without infecting him. If it is the flu, he can continue to go to work. If she tests positive for covid-19, he needs to stay home. The Health department said unless she is hospitalized, she will not be tested. So far, he is staying at home. This impacts all his work-in-the-same-room co-workers & others at his workplace as he worked up through the day she realized her symptoms could be covid-19 based on another person who had a similar travel history & timeline tested positive in our county. Time will tell, but others at his work might need to be self-isolating who are not ... thus continuing the possible spread.

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On 4/4/2020 at 5:23 PM, SquirrellyMama said:

Good question @BlsdMama I am on the fence right now. I feel like the restrictions put in place here in IA are very similar to other states that have an SIP. 

BUT, I do feel like there are too many people with no common sense, and people who are still seeing this as "Most people won't get a bad case so why should I care". 

BUT, I do like going for walks with the dogs and kids. This has been a great time to teach my youngest to drive since the roads are quieter. 

Like you I am not looking at this through a political lens. I like some of her views and not others. 

Kelly

Stay in Place orders do not ban people from taking walks with the dogs and kids. 

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 My city is enforcing stay in place, but those being cited are businesses staying open in violation of the order (churches get visits from the health department) and people hosting/participating in social events. A mom walking around the block with her kids, or a brother and sister riding bikes together are not an issue. 

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9 hours ago, KathyBC said:

Which just goes to show, so often it is not only about doing the right thing, it is about reassuring those watching that you are doing the right thing.
An inefficient, but apparently necessary evil.

Yes, this is a good point.

Turns out, she must have been thinking the same.  Apparently she had a conversation with Dr. Fauci.  This broke the news tonight:
.......“I had good conversations with the governor of Nebraska and the governor of Iowa. It’s interesting that functionally, even though they have not given the strict stay at home — what they are doing is really functionally equivalent to that. We had a really good conversation with both of the governors," Fauci said. "When I had mentioned that, I think there was a public response that they weren’t really doing anything at all and they really are doing a very good job. Both of them. Those are the only two that I spoke to. But it was a really good conversation. I want to make sure people understand that just because they don’t have a very strict stay at home order, they have in place a lot of things that are totally compatible with what everyone else is doing.” 
~Dr. Fauci

I'm grateful.  I've distanced myself from politics lately as the non-stop quibbling exhausts me.  However, I see what her aim is in resisting the SIP "official" order and I commend her for her emphasis on personal responsibility.  While I am disappointed in people's inability to perceive anything beyond themselves, at the same time I think it is honorable? And all I could think was, when everything splatters on the fan, she's going to get blamed for failing to put in effect SIP, despite the fact that our rules are every bit as stringent as other states, but no one bothered to research or compare.  I'm glad Dr. Fauci took the time out of his schedule, which must be crazy at this moment, to have a conversation with her.  I admire him more for this.

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On 4/4/2020 at 7:56 PM, ElizabethB said:

North Dakota has 3 deaths, 186 positive tests, 6021 negatives.  South Dakota has 2 deaths, 212 positive tests, 5012 negatives. With numbers this low, you can do contact tracing and quarantine contacts.  I think Idaho is still doing contact tracing and quarantining, even with 1,000 cases and 10 deaths, they have the state divided into several different health districts with the ability to contact trace; the 1,000 cases is from the beginning, so there are not too many new cases if you keep up and each health district does a few.

 

I hope they will move toward doing this here in Montana (contact tracing and quarantine contacts).  The latest projected estimates for numbers here said total deaths reduced from an estimated 280 to 22 (these are projections, current deaths at 6).  Currently we have about 300 cases and have been in stay at home mode for 10 days.  Schools never reopened after the first cases were diagnosed.  I think we've flattened our curve and now the focus should shift to what can be reopened and how to keep things under control without destroying the economy.    I am sure the governor will extend the stay at home order which currently ends on the 10th for another 2 weeks though.

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11 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

she ordered an SIP I would absolutely comply. What she has already done is about the same thing as those with an SIP. The only difference as far as I can tell is enforcement. In an SIP I wouldn't be able to go out driving with my dd if it weren't necessary. I would get pulled over and ticketed or warned I'm assuming. 

VA is under a shelter in place, enforceable by a $1000 fine. Driving around is fine. It’s the gathering in groups that isn’t allowed.  I’ve been using driving around as an escape for about a week.  We also have been going to hiking trails and hanging out by the river, just our family alone, with no problems.  We can still go get take out or drinks from sonic or coffee at Starbucks. 
 I think it’s all semantics at this point.

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I think part of the problem is that the semantics are confusing between social distancing/stay at home/shelter in place. I’m in VA and we are under an official stay at home order until June 10th. But it’s not really all that different than what we were told to do before, it just became official. I understand that some people needed the official order to make them do what they should have been doing all along...but it’s not really that the recommendations changed. The VA governor was similar to the Iowa governor in that he didn’t want to issue an official order but was finally really pressured to do so. Partially, due to people crowding state parks and beaches, I believe. And partially due to neighboring governors letting it be known they were issuing official orders. So then he made the order and made it be until June 10th, which I think is the longest one out there. 

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9 hours ago, Cnew02 said:

VA is under a shelter in place, enforceable by a $1000 fine. Driving around is fine. It’s the gathering in groups that isn’t allowed.  I’ve been using driving around as an escape for about a week.  We also have been going to hiking trails and hanging out by the river, just our family alone, with no problems.  We can still go get take out or drinks from sonic or coffee at Starbucks. 
 I think it’s all semantics at this point.

We aren't allowed to drive around - essential travel only.  The reason is to free up emergency services: fewer miles travelled=fewer accidents, less contact with police/mechanics and fewer hours used by medical personnel.  People are also discouraged from, for example, walking up mountains where they might get stuck and need Mountain Rescue and other resources.

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12 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

We aren't allowed to drive around - essential travel only.  The reason is to free up emergency services: fewer miles travelled=fewer accidents, less contact with police/mechanics and fewer hours used by medical personnel.  People are also discouraged from, for example, walking up mountains where they might get stuck and need Mountain Rescue and other resources.

Same here in Illinois. We are only supposed to drive to get medical care, go to the grocery store or pharmacy, or to travel to and from essential work.

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9 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

We aren't allowed to drive around - essential travel only.  The reason is to free up emergency services: fewer miles travelled=fewer accidents, less contact with police/mechanics and fewer hours used by medical personnel.  People are also discouraged from, for example, walking up mountains where they might get stuck and need Mountain Rescue and other resources.

A French man was fined for breaking curfew after he had to be rescued while trying to walk to over the Pyrenees. Apparently cigarettes are cheaper in Spain than in France. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52174288

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/europe/pyrenees-rescue-cigarettes-scli-intl/index.html

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On 4/3/2020 at 6:55 PM, BlsdMama said:

Our governor is taking a lot of heat here in Iowa. 
 

We don’t have a shelter in place. I was a strong proponent of work at home and stay at home, but I feel (surprisingly) comfortable with her decision. I feel people have made huge lifestyle changes here. 
 

I live in one of the top three counties, which is to be expected - major cities, higher numbers. 
I’m a registered independent so it’s not political for me. I know she is attempting to salvage our normally great economy. That said she has shut down schools and a shocking number of workplaces. Thoughts?

I am not sure really how this is different in reality than many states with shelter at home policies. Florida has shelter at home/place but is having the fake wrestling stuff this week.  We have it but manufacturing is exempt and some parks are open.  Recreation is allowed just as long as safe distances are kept. (which the 6 feet turns out not to be the real thing- it should be 13 feet).

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