regarding disinfectant wipes

[ktgrok]

It is my understanding that they require significant contact time. Like, I want to say the surface has to stay wet with the wipe chemical for 4 minutes or something? I'm seeing people who give a quick wipedown of a bunch of stuff with one wipe, and I wonder how damp those things are getting by the last item. Even at the grocery store, I notice if I wipe the cart down the cart handle dries almost instantly, definitely doesn't stay damp for several minutes. 

Is this an issue? Are wipes giving people a false sense of security?

At this point for most things I bring into the house I spray down with peroxide until the surface is quite damp, then let sit for several minutes before drying and putting away. (or I just quarantine things in the trunk of my car or in a high cabinet). 

Thoughts?

[ThisIsTheDay]

I've religiously used wipes on shopping carts for several years and believe it's kept me from getting sick (compared to previous years). So I'm comfortable using them now too.

[MEmama]

I’ll admit I probably don’t use the wipes correctly. I’m probably not even using an effective brand. I guess it seems like wiping things off is better than not doing it at all? I really don’t know.

 I’ve used Lysol to clean the kitchen island after putting away groceries a couple of times. I’ve never used it before (it was a total impulse buy) and certainly didn’t wait around to dry it off with a dishcloth. I can’t wait for several minutes—I have a cat who LOVES to help clean, and she would walk all over it. Is it even worth using then? 

[ktgrok]

Found this:https://www.today.com/home/there-s-right-wrong-way-use-cleaning-wipes-apparently-t154581

 labels for Clorox Disinfecting Wipes and Lysol Disinfecting Wipes state that the surface should remain wet for four minutes after application to fully disinfect the area.

And some, like Seventh Generation Disinfecting Wipes, specify that the surface should remain visibly wet for 10 whole minutes for it to properly disinfect.

[MEmama]

Honest question...How does a surface stay wet that long? If I use a wipe on something the surface is dry almost instantly. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by MEmama

[ktgrok]

Just now, MEmama said:

Honest question...How does a surface stay wet that long? If I use a wipe on something the surface is dry almost instantly. 

Yeah, that's kind of my point I guess. I mean some stuff is easier to kill than others, and coronaviruses are pretty easy to kill, so it might still work in a short period of time...but I am worried people are just not getting the effectiveness they think they are. 

Which is why I'm mostly using peroxide spray, so I can really get the surface damp. Doesn't work for carts at the store, or at least I haven't tried that, but at home, for packages/groceries, etc. 

Also, PSA if you have the lever style door handles rather than a knob, make sure your spray gets the underside, where your fingers wrap around, not just the outer surface. 

[LBK]

I'm confused about this too right now. Kind of a moot point since we are out of Lysol wipes and naturally they're nowhere to be found, but all I have is a disinfectant spray (Lysol bathroom), and while I don't like how "foamy" it comes out, the label says that for sanitizing only 30 seconds is needed. For disinfecting, surface must be wet 10 minutes. And I just learned that sanitizing means reducing germ count to a "safe" level, whereas only disinfecting is where you get the fulfillment of the claim that said cleaner "Kills 99.9999%" or whatever of viruses and bacteria.

I also wonder, since people keep saying that the virus breaks down really easily with soap and water, when is just washing things, like we are doing with produce, with soap and water for a good amount of time (say 20 seconds) actually a better solution than these disinfectants? Thanks for posting, I need to learn more about this.

[Pawz4me]

The need for a surface to remain wet for a period of time is one reason I don't waste money on wipes. A teaspoon of bleach per cup of water in a spray bottle is dirt cheap, works well and produces a lot less waste going into the landfill.

[LBK]

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/clean-kill-coronavirus-covid19-safety-health/

This has a lot of answers to the questions we are asking...for peroxide, at 3% or diluted down to 0.5% one minute is sufficient to ...doesn't say sanitize or disinfect.

And bleach is a good idea...I just had a doubt about that yesterday, since my mildew cleaner that is simply a bleach solution did not make any claims about viruses, so I was afraid it wouldn't work. That article says it's fine as long as it the bleach is properly diluted (1/4 c. to 1 gal water) and not expired.

Edited April 1, 2020 by LBK

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, LBK said:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/clean-kill-coronavirus-covid19-safety-health/

This has a lot of answers to the questions we are asking...for peroxide, at 3% or diluted down to 0.5% one minute is sufficient to ...doesn't say sanitize or disinfect.

And bleach is a good idea...I just had a doubt about that yesterday, since my mildew cleaner that is simply a bleach solution did not make any claims about viruses, so I was afraid it wouldn't work. That article says it's fine as long as it the bleach is properly diluted (1/4 c. to 1 gal water) and not expired.

You do want to frequently remix that solution - when we were using bleach solution for Parvo cases in a vet clinic we were instructed to make fresh every day. 

[Pawz4me]

12 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

You do want to frequently remix that solution - when we were using bleach solution for Parvo cases in a vet clinic we were instructed to make fresh every day. 

That's why I just mix up a cup or two at a time. 

[ktgrok]

That makes me wonder, are spray bottles in short supply? I need more spray heads. Wonder if I can find those...

[Carrie12345]

Yes, wipes generally need several or more minutes to deactivate the ickies.  That said, there’s at least one study floating around that includes the actual wiping as part of the action that “disinfects”. More literally, how much of the ickies get transferred to the wipe and away from the surface in question. IIRC, two good swipes did a pretty good job, with disinfectants and with soap and water. Possibly even with just water.

 

[MEmama]

13 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Yes, wipes generally need several or more minutes to deactivate the ickies.  That said, there’s at least one study floating around that includes the actual wiping as part of the action that “disinfects”. More literally, how much of the ickies get transferred to the wipe and away from the surface in question. IIRC, two good swipes did a pretty good job, with disinfectants and with soap and water. Possibly even with just water.

 

The wiping action makes sense. If it’s so easy to transfer the virus from, say, a box of cereal or door handle, then doesn’t it stand to reason it would be equally as easy to remove it by smearing a wipe over that surface? 

[EKS]

I think it's a mistake to rely on sanitizers for a two reasons.  First, as the OP points out, they must be used properly to work effectively.  Second, thinking that a surface is "safe" because it has been "sanitized" is a mistake.  This means that you're going to behaving differently depending on whether you think a surface is safe or not.  This not only requires you to know if something is safe (and what you may think is safe may, in fact, not be), it requires you to change your behavior depending on the situation, making it easier to mess up.   It is better to assume that everything is contaminated and wash hands as appropriate.  

But the other thing to remember regarding surfaces is that unless you're dealing with people who essentially blow their nose into their hand and then wipe it all over everything (in other words, crazy people and small children), surfaces are a minor source of contagion.  The virus needs access to your respiratory tract to set up shop, and if you don't jam your finger into your eye, shove it up your nose, or stick it in your mouth, it is going to have a hard time doing that.  This is why airborne transmission is what you need to watch out for.  Because of this, the message that masks are useless is, frankly, a dangerous lie.  They are not useless if the proper mask is used correctly.

I think this obsession with surfaces stems from the fact that it seems like we have more control over surfaces than we do over the air we breathe.  But again, unless you live with a person who insists on rubbing globs of snot everywhere, it's the air that we need to be concerned about.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, EKS said:

I think it's a mistake to rely on sanitizers for a two reasons.  First, as the OP points out, they must be used properly to work effectively.  Second, thinking that a surface is "safe" because it has been "sanitized" is a mistake.  This means that you're going to behaving differently depending on whether you think a surface is safe or not.  This not only requires you to know if something is safe (and what you may think is safe may, in fact, not be), it requires you to change your behavior depending on the situation, making it easier to mess up.   It is better to assume that everything is contaminated and wash hands as appropriate.  

But the other thing to remember regarding surfaces is that unless you're dealing with people who essentially blow their nose into their hand and then wipe it all over everything (in other words, crazy people and small children), surfaces are a minor source of contagion.  The virus needs access to your respiratory tract to set up shop, and if you don't jam your finger into your eye, shove it up your nose, or stick it in your mouth, it is going to have a hard time doing that.  This is why airborne transmission is what you need to watch out for.  Because of this, the message that masks are useless is, frankly, a dangerous lie.  They are not useless if the proper mask is used correctly.

I think this obsession with surfaces stems from the fact that it seems like we have more control over surfaces than we do over the air we breathe.  But again, unless you live with a person who insists on rubbing globs of snot everywhere, it's the air that we need to be concerned about.

Well, I mean, people may be coughing and sneezing onto those surface, and yes, I do rub my nose and eyes, lol. So for me, its both. But I am working to not touch my face, and I scrub when I use wipes, and use more than one to keep it wet. And then still wash up very well afterward. AND wear a mask. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Ktgrok

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

Using old hair spray or cleaner bottles works great, just rinse them and scrub them very well first 🙂

Yeah, if I can't find any I may sacrifice a nearly empty windex bottle. 

[regentrude]

If using soap and water and rubbing is recommended and considered sufficient for cleaning one's hands, why wouldn't soap and water and rubbing be suitable to clean surfaces inside the house? (Obviously not practical while out and about). But why disinfect the counter if simple washing  is considered sufficient for hands?

[ktgrok]

12 minutes ago, regentrude said:

If using soap and water and rubbing is recommended and considered sufficient for cleaning one's hands, why wouldn't soap and water and rubbing be suitable to clean surfaces inside the house? (Obviously not practical while out and about). But why disinfect the counter if simple washing  is considered sufficient for hands?

I think it is, but maybe people don't do enough friction, get the whole surface, etc? Easy to miss an inch here and there I'd imagine?

[EKS]

11 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

The same has been postulated about ski helmets--that people ski more recklessly because they are wearing the helmet.  BUT I know of one kid whose life was saved by wearing the helmet--another skier ran into him and knocked him to the ground.  When my friend (the kid) got to the bottom of the hill, he took off his helmet and saw that the exterior was completely sliced though by the other party's ski.  So yeah, wear the helmet, but don't use it as a license to be reckless.  

This actually wasn't my point--though I see what you mean.  My point was that switching behavior depending on the situation means that you're more likely to mess up when in the "unsafe" situation because you haven't been reinforcing the behavior all along.

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, LBK said:

I'm confused about this too right now. Kind of a moot point since we are out of Lysol wipes and naturally they're nowhere to be found, but all I have is a disinfectant spray (Lysol bathroom), and while I don't like how "foamy" it comes out, the label says that for sanitizing only 30 seconds is needed. For disinfecting, surface must be wet 10 minutes. And I just learned that sanitizing means reducing germ count to a "safe" level, whereas only disinfecting is where you get the fulfillment of the claim that said cleaner "Kills 99.9999%" or whatever of viruses and bacteria.

I also wonder, since people keep saying that the virus breaks down really easily with soap and water, when is just washing things, like we are doing with produce, with soap and water for a good amount of time (say 20 seconds) actually a better solution than these disinfectants? Thanks for posting, I need to learn more about this.

 

This is why I haven't bothered with disinfectant wipes. (The 10 min thing)  I wash frequently with soap and water or set aside for time to kill (when possible). Even door knobs and such.  Leaving disinfectant only for stuff I can't figure out how to do otherwise. (hands after a grocery trip, for ex. I'd use in a train/bus if I had to use.

And even then after I get inside I wash my hands with soap and water as well) I'm NOT a big fan of sanitizer and never have been.

[BakersDozen]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

If using soap and water and rubbing is recommended and considered sufficient for cleaning one's hands, why wouldn't soap and water and rubbing be suitable to clean surfaces inside the house? (Obviously not practical while out and about). But why disinfect the counter if simple washing  is considered sufficient for hands?

Our counters get wiped down 3 times each day with soap and hot water. I never thought to use anything else unless raw meat was being prepared. I avoid pretty much anything anti-bacterial if at all possible so the idea of using something like a Lysol wipe or whatever on counters is strange to me.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

If using soap and water and rubbing is recommended and considered sufficient for cleaning one's hands, why wouldn't soap and water and rubbing be suitable to clean surfaces inside the house? (Obviously not practical while out and about). But why disinfect the counter if simple washing  is considered sufficient for hands?

 

Soap and water, ideally hot water, 20 seconds washing, should be good for anything soap and water can be used on. 

It is my main go to. 

For surfaces. For durable food.  For people. For pets.  

I think it is also Apple recommendation for iPhone (not inside of ports, obviously).

 

Cleaning your iPhone - Apple Support

Mar 9, 2020 · ... lint-free cloth with warm soapy water. Avoid getting moisture in openings. Don't use cleaning products or compressed air. Your iPhone has a ...

 

 

 

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

If using soap and water and rubbing is recommended and considered sufficient for cleaning one's hands, why wouldn't soap and water and rubbing be suitable to clean surfaces inside the house? (Obviously not practical while out and about). But why disinfect the counter if simple washing  is considered sufficient for hands?

I suspect plain old soap and water is fine. It's all I use on my kitchen counters normally.  But to make sure things are safe now, I do use some diluted bleach after unpacking groceries. If DH and I weren't both higher risk I probably wouldn't worry about it.

[Katy]

Microfiber cloths create friction.  A few years back someone posted some links to some homemade, video studies on YouTube of how well essential oils sanitize things vs other cleansers.  And the same person did microfiber towels vs those network marketing brands with silver woven into them.

Ever since I saw those videos I try to disinfect using bleach on a microfiber cloth.

But lately I've been using diluted Mr Clean in a spray bottle.  I have no idea how well it's killing germs but it sure gets up grime from a table SO MUCH BETTER than the "eco-friendly" stuff I was using before.

[barnwife]

4 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I think it is, but maybe people don't do enough friction, get the whole surface, etc? Easy to miss an inch here and there I'd imagine?

But...wouldn't it be just as easy to miss a spot with a wipe versus a rag? 

I am still just using our standard cleaners (soap and water, vinegar, etc, a few random spray cleaner things we have) in our house. We wash hands upon coming in. Shoes stay in the entry. In nice weather, I'd be fine leaving them outside, but it's been raining every few days here.

I guess, concerned as I am about COVID-19, this is one area where I haven't begun being hyper-vigilant. 

[Spryte]

Rubbing alcohol and hydrogen perixide (not together, obviously): are you diluting those, or using straight when spraying with them?

I’ve been using bleach and water in a spray bottle, but would prefer not to damage surfaces.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Spryte
Typo, oops

[vonbon]

8 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

The need for a surface to remain wet for a period of time is one reason I don't waste money on wipes. A teaspoon of bleach per cup of water in a spray bottle is dirt cheap, works well and produces a lot less waste going into the landfill.

Can you tell me if this ratio results in a solution that would ruin dark clothes?  As in, when using this around your house, have you ever noticed spray ending up on your clothing and bleaching it?  Say if you sprayed a countertop and the leaned against it?  Thanks--

[BakersDozen]

Quote

I prefer soap and water, but for counters, I find it hard to rinse it off. It just gets soapier and soapier.

Do you dry off the counters? We go light on the soap and dry down with a clean towel immediately. No soap or water residue build up on our counters, appliances, etc.

[Shoeless]

The wipes are just a convenience. They are basically pre-moistened paper towels. There is no super special magic about how they work; they will not provide more disinfecting power over any other cleaner you have to mix yourself. 

You can buy a gallon of bleach or a bottle of Lysol concentrate, follow the dilution instructions, and clean with a rag.  A bottle of concentrated Lysol cleaner will make 24 GALLONS once mixed. This is a way better deal than those canisters of wipes and works just as well!  It's the same disinfectant!  Just add water!  Technically, you are supposed to rinse your counters/food prep areas off after using the Lysol products, because the disinfectant in it is not meant to be ingested.  You don't have to rinse if you use diluted bleach. 

[Pawz4me]

5 hours ago, vonbon said:

Can you tell me if this ratio results in a solution that would ruin dark clothes?  As in, when using this around your house, have you ever noticed spray ending up on your clothing and bleaching it?  Say if you sprayed a countertop and the leaned against it?  Thanks--

I haven't noticed anything, but I do try to be careful to not let it contact my clothing. 

[Guest]

This whole deal has been confusing for me on this front because I normally do not have or use wipes, and I usually clean things with a spray and a cleaning cloth. So now I’m trying to do it the true disinfecting way, but I have read that about ten minutes wet in order to kill germs. That just makes no sense to me if we’re talking about something like door knobs and light switches. How in the world can you spray a bleach solution on a door knob and leave it wet for ten minutes?I’m always so conscious of bleach in the first place, not wanting it to drip on carpet or my clothes. I have been going on the theory that the terry cloth is providing enough friction to disinfect the knobs. 

The grocery store I have been going to has a worker stationed at the door, giving people a freshly-doused paper towel with a solution on it. (Not sure what the solution is.) But it is much more comprehensive than the typical wipes.

 

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, Spryte said:

Rubbing alcohol and hydrogen perixide (not together, obviously): are you diluting those, or using straight when spraying with them?

I’ve been using bleach and water in a spray bottle, but would prefer not to damage surfaces.

Rubbing alcohol works better diluted - mix 4 parts alcohol to 1 part water. Straight alcohol dries too fast. Peroxide is straight. Easiest way is to just stick a spray top into the bottle of peroxide. You do want it to stay in that bottle because it is sensitive to light I believe. Hence the dark brown bottles it comes in. Only needs about 1 minute of contact time, although 3-4 would be even safer and kill harder to destroy germs like rhinovirus. (coronavirus is easier to kill than rhinovirus)

4 hours ago, MissLemon said:

The wipes are just a convenience. They are basically pre-moistened paper towels. There is no super special magic about how they work; they will not provide more disinfecting power over any other cleaner you have to mix yourself. 

You can buy a gallon of bleach or a bottle of Lysol concentrate, follow the dilution instructions, and clean with a rag.  A bottle of concentrated Lysol cleaner will make 24 GALLONS once mixed. This is a way better deal than those canisters of wipes and works just as well!  It's the same disinfectant!  Just add water!  Technically, you are supposed to rinse your counters/food prep areas off after using the Lysol products, because the disinfectant in it is not meant to be ingested.  You don't have to rinse if you use diluted bleach. 

Lysol concentrate has been sold out near me, but yes, that one is a good bargain. You do still need the 10 minute contact  time per the label, but that's easier if spraying it one.

FYI if people are seeing other concentrated disinfectant cleaners - most of them said that they only disinfected if used straight. Regular cleaning you dilute, but that wasn't a disinfectant. So the Mr Clean type stuff said on the bottle it kills 99% of germs, but the fine print meant only if used straight and rinsed, etc. 

2 hours ago, Quill said:

This whole deal has been confusing for me on this front because I normally do not have or use wipes, and I usually clean things with a spray and a cleaning cloth. So now I’m trying to do it the true disinfecting way, but I have read that about ten minutes wet in order to kill germs. That just makes no sense to me if we’re talking about something like door knobs and light switches. How in the world can you spray a bleach solution on a door knob and leave it wet for ten minutes?I’m always so conscious of bleach in the first place, not wanting it to drip on carpet or my clothes. I have been going on the theory that the terry cloth is providing enough friction to disinfect the knobs. 

The grocery store I have been going to has a worker stationed at the door, giving people a freshly-doused paper towel with a solution on it. (Not sure what the solution is.) But it is much more comprehensive than the typical wipes.

 

That's why I use peroxide. It isn't corrosive, so won't damage metal doorknobs, etc. And it breaks down to just water and oxygen. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Ktgrok

[Shoeless]

12 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Rubbing alcohol works better diluted - mix 4 parts alcohol to 1 part water. Straight alcohol dries too fast. Peroxide is straight. Easiest way is to just stick a spray top into the bottle of peroxide. You do want it to stay in that bottle because it is sensitive to light I believe. Hence the dark brown bottles it comes in. Only needs about 1 minute of contact time, although 3-4 would be even safer and kill harder to destroy germs like rhinovirus. (coronavirus is easier to kill than rhinovirus)

Lysol concentrate has been sold out near me, but yes, that one is a good bargain. You do still need the 10 minute contact  time per the label, but that's easier if spraying it one.

FYI if people are seeing other concentrated disinfectant cleaners - most of them said that they only disinfected if used straight. Regular cleaning you dilute, but that wasn't a disinfectant. So the Mr Clean type stuff said on the bottle it kills 99% of germs, but the fine print meant only if used straight and rinsed, etc. 

That's why I use peroxide. It isn't corrosive, so won't damage metal doorknobs, etc. And it breaks down to just water and oxygen. 

 

Yeah, you definitely have to read each product instruction for the dilution ratio. I hope your stores can get some Lysol concentrate in stock soon.