Am I romanticizing the past? Or did people used to tolerate things better?

[Ginevra]

I’m thinking, like, the “Greatest Generation” - the grandmas and grandpas or parents of some of ours, who lived through the Great Depression and WWII. Young men were dying and losing body parts, the economy was in shambles, there were rations on things and the government helpfully gave out recipes so people could make dinner with organ meats. 

I wasn’t there. 😏 So what do I know. But when I read about these things, or even when I hear about things people put up with, it seems so amazing to me. Was the population in general just more able to accept that sh!t happens; sometimes it even lasts and lasts, than our current population? 

[Sneezyone]

In a word, yes. The house I was raised in was built in the 30s as were many homes in the neighborhood. During the war years, the neighbors planted fruit trees. Not sure how much fruit they got in those years but by the time I was born 30 years later, kids roaming around in my neighborhood had easy access to plums, pears, apples, and cherries not to mention roadside blackberries. They were in everyone’s yard and we’d grab and go. My dad and his siblings were also raised in that house. My uncle saved a box of stuff that he brought out during one of my many visits. In addition to MULTIPLE photos of his ‘old squeezes’, he had ration coupons/books with unused stamps. It was like a time capsule. So much information is trapped in those old brains. He’d answer my questions for hours about what it was like back then.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sherry in OH]

I think it is a mistake to think that people stoically soldiered on through great hardship without complaint or wishing things were different.  However, yes, overall, mindsets were different.  Prior generations had a stronger sense of duty.  Duty to their extended families, communities, church, and country.  Self came last.  

Post-WWII generations are different.  While many individuals did retain older values, society as a whole shifted to a 'me first' attitude.   On the whole, we are not accustomed to making do and doing without.  

 

[Zebra]

I think you're partly romanticizing the past.

People had to put up with it, so they did.   I have a really hard time believing they didn't complain about it, or would have done it by choice.   BUT they didn't have all the ways to complain about it very loudly like we do.   They couldn't post online about it.   

I also think we have a lot of things to put up with nowadays that the older generation did not.   

I think different things are tough for every generation.

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Zebra

[Zebra]

3 minutes ago, Sherry in OH said:

 Prior generations had a stronger sense of duty.  Duty to their extended families, communities, church, and country.  Self came last.  

I agree with this, but I also think prior generations defined "sense of duty" differently than younger generations.   As a general example, the older generation might feel like it was their "duty" to go serve in a war.   Whereas they younger generation feels it is their "duty" to not be racist.

 

[Bootsie]

Several things I think were different:

1)  People were not as sheltered from the hard realities of life.  More people experienced the impact of storm, locusts, or draught on their crops.  More people saw life and death in their farm animals.  People were more accustomed to their loved ones dying from diseases for which there was no cure.

2)  People were accustomed to depending upon their communities, families, churches, and their rainy day savings rather than on the federal government or science to protect them from risks and hardships.  Hospitals were viewed as a place to care for the ill not as a place to provide cures.  They did not have the expectation that with a little more science and technology we would have a vaccine.

3)  Media outlets did not spread news as quickly.   People were not bombarded with constant reporting.  

[Pawz4me]

I think our ability to communicate widely is a factor. Telephones, email, social media all provide platforms to hear complaints from all over the world, instantaneously. Tweeting and posting on FB are hobbies for too many people, who are way too eager (IMO) to share their every thought. During the Depression and WWII one mostly communicated with people in real life. So it would be kind of hard to get a true sense of how things were then compared to now. I agree that people back them were much more in touch with the grim realities of day to day life, whereas now we're insulated from a lot of even mildly bad stuff.

My father remembered the Depression. He said his family was considered wealthy because they had a farm and so always had plenty to eat. He said it was common for neighbors and relatives to show up around meal time for a "visit." My grandmother knew, of course, that they were people who didn't have food at home and knew that she would feed them. There was no need to speak about the lack of food, family and neighbors knew each other well enough to help meet unspoken needs when they could. That lack of community, and of close family units being scattered far and wide, hurts in times like these--probably most of us don't have a very broad range of people who would recognize our unspoken needs. And that probably leads to the need to "complain" more.

I'm sure it's complicated. I doubt it's so much that people were stronger/hardier/more resilient back then as much as it is simply the way the world has changed.

[MEmama]

Life was so hard for my mother’s generation (she’s 80) she won’t even talk about her childhood. 
My father has never once described the effects of the depression on his formative years.

I think assuming people just “grinned and beared” it are grossly out of line with reality. 

Humans have a great capacity to deal it’s whatever is required, but it’s not as though the sacrifices don’t leave lasting scars.

[Hadley]

I think part of what makes this so hard is the isolation.  

My husband is retired military and I have lived alone and taken care of an infant, and then a small child, for several years while was husband was overseas (three separate one-year deployments), and I know the fear of a knock on the door.  That was so very hard, yet I seemed to handle it better.

Life still had to go on, chores had to be done, social engagements were to be kept.  The other Army wives and I leaned on each other.  This is the opposite.  We are isolated, and have very little to distract us from our worry.  

[Carol in Cal.]

There was a certain stigma to complaining.

My uncle was in the Navy before and during WWII.  He had a ship shot out from under him and spent the night in the waters of the Pacific hoping to be rescued.  Another ship was disabled but not sunk when a kamakazi plane crashed into it on purpose.  He never would talk about any of his experiences.  His family knew about them from newspaper articles.

[Laura Corin]

The classic British comment on these times was, 'Mustn't grumble'.  Which makes me think that actually people were probably pretty grumpy.  The black market was enormous too during WWII rationing in the UK, I believe.  And people who had large estates could shoot game on their own land with no obligation to share it.  There were luxury air-raid shelters under the Dorchester Hotel in London, with silk sheets.

[gardenmom5]

I do believe previous generations were brought up to be more resilient - those who weren't, didn't survive as easily as they can today.  I also believe there were complaints, but those who wallowed - struggled, so even if they complained they had to get on with things or they wouldn't eat.  My grandmother *still* complained about her father not financially helping her when their hogs got cholera (it swept through hogs in the 30s.) even in the 1980s.  (she died in '93.)

[Slache]

Also, they didn't have the option. If you got drafted you had no choice. If there was no food you had no choice. We are choosing to break the rules, meeting at the park, getting our hair done in our stylist's basement. We do whatever we want because we can.

[73349]

The suicide rate in the 1930s was horrifically high. People did not all just cope.

[Laura Corin]

11 minutes ago, Slache said:

Also, they didn't have the option. If you got drafted you had no choice. If there was no food you had no choice. We are choosing to break the rules, meeting at the park, getting our hair done in our stylist's basement. We do whatever we want because we can.

There's also the extent to which people really believe in the existential threat.  For my mother, born in 1924 and accepted to Oxford in 1942, there wasn't any point in her mind in going to university at that stage.  Instead she volunteered to work in an aeroplane factory and spent time in Bristol checking the electrical circuits on bombers.  I remember one of my children describing her as a hero, and her replying that there really wasn't a choice: in her mind there wouldn't be an Oxford to go to - in effect - if she didn't join the war effort.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Laura Corin

[catz]

24 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

The suicide rate in the 1930s was horrifically high. People did not all just cope.

Mental health was not dealt with.  Domestic violence was not dealt with.  All those older folks that struggle with healthy relationships and boundaries were likely a product of unhealthy emotional upbringing.  Talking about struggling with something is not bad.  

Anyone who thinks the good old days were just full of mentally and emotionally healthy people making the best of their situations pulling up their boot straps should take a look at this book.  It's basically newspaper clippings and photos of a small area in Wisconsin during the late 1800's/early 1900's.  I don't think there was anything unique about this area, there was just a good source of material for this area.  There is no shortage of suicide, mental illness, poor human behavior, etc.  

https://www.amazon.com/Wisconsin-Death-Trip-Michael-Lesy/dp/0826321933/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=wisconsin+death+trip&qid=1585753013&sr=8-1

Edited April 1, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[JustEm]

yes most likely.

[Sherry in OH]

In my opinion, the two differences between prior generations' difficult times and our current crisis are

1) Isolation.  Historically,  in times of crisis, people who had a sense of community almost always faired better. While online interactions can help mitigate the sense of aloneness, it cannot entirely replace our innate need for face-to-face interaction and human touch.  

2) Boredom.  In the past, there was much less time to sit about and stew.  There was less overall leisure time as tasks necessary for basic survival took more time.  If you wanted more heat, you couldn't just turn up the thermostat.  You hauled and chopped wood or shoveled coal.  If you didn't have fuel and couldn't fetch or buy any, you bundled up and hoped for warmer weather.    Rural families may endure our current crisis with better mindsets than urban counterparts because they have tasks to occupy their time.  Livestock to feed, fences to mend, fields to plant.

[marbel]

My parents were born in 1916 so they lived through a lot.  My mother had been on welfare as a teen after her father committed suicide -  he had been a teamster and had been injured, so couldn't work. She said the time they spent on welfare was the worst time of her life; they were all so ashamed. She had nightmares about drowning sometimes, all through her life. She was always frugal and could never enjoy having any extra money even when our family was fairly comfortable.

My father's family fared a little better during the depression because they owned a store and my grandfather had a good job, and my father worked as the same place during his high school years (got his diploma by attending night school); he worked for the same company for 50 years, moving up the ranks somewhat.  During WWII he trained pilots; I have never gotten the full story on how that came about.  His only brother was lost in a submarine so maybe that's why my dad didn't see combat; I don't know. He didn't talk about it at all and I never saw him express any interest in flying.  He was frustrated much of his life though, and eventually died of alcoholism. Even with that, I have good memories of him and my mother always felt that he took good care of her, at times working two jobs. 

So my parents survived and I never heard them complain. Oh, they were both children of immigrants who had also seen hard times.  In comparison I know my life has been so easy, so unbelievably easy.

Edited April 1, 2020 by marbel

[historically accurate]

6 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

The suicide rate in the 1930s was horrifically high. People did not all just cope.

Also, 1.5 million women's husbands abandoned them during the Great Depression. http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snprelief1.htm 

And over 200,000 children were left to fend for themselves. http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/active_learning/explorations/children_depression/depression_children_menu.cfm

[Selkie]

23 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Mental health was not dealt with.  Domestic violence was not dealt with.  All those older folks that struggle with healthy relationships and boundaries were likely a product of unhealthy emotional upbringing.  Talking about struggling with something is not bad.  

Anyone who thinks the good old days were just full of mentally and emotionally healthy people making the best of their situations pulling up their boot straps should take a look at this book.  It's basically newspaper clippings and photos of a small area in Wisconsin during the late 1800's/early 1900's.  I don't think there was anything unique about this area, there was just a good source of material for this area.  There is no shortage of suicide, mental illness, poor human behavior, etc.  

https://www.amazon.com/Wisconsin-Death-Trip-Michael-Lesy/dp/0826321933/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=wisconsin+death+trip&qid=1585753013&sr=8-1

This thread made me think of Wisconsin Death Trip, too! That is one sad and unsettling book.

[Arctic Bunny]

20 minutes ago, Selkie said:

This thread made me think of Wisconsin Death Trip, too! That is one sad and unsettling book.

I clicked on the link, and due to sudden increased demand, Amazon has decreased delivery to my area. THAT is unsettling!

[Valley Girl]

"The good old days" are a myth. There are millions of people soldiering on through this situation, putting themselves at risk in medical settings, in grocery stores, and in other essential businesses. Many more are stepping up to help friends and neighbors who are at risk. Are there idiots among us? Of course. There have always been the selfish,  the foolish, etc. and always will be. They didn't suddenly just appear today because we're so weak.

(This next statement isn't a slam at you, Quill, honestly.  I think it's more proof that I need to stay offline for awhile because I'm reacting to something I'm seeing in a lot of places.)

I'm getting pretty fed up with the not-so-veiled insinuation that today's folks just don't measure up. Most of us are doing our level best to keep things going despite overwhelming worry over an immediate, direct threat to our families. We're extending ourself to help those around us against real isolation. We're pushing forward,  each in our own way every day, despite dealing with the major crap that's already on a lot of our plates.

I admire the greatest generation deeply. We can learn things from them, yes. But underneath it all, we're really no different. We, too, shall persevere.

[EKS]

My mother tells me that during WWII, her mother would get really bent out of shape when she couldn't get the stuff at the store that she wanted (due to rationing).  So there's that.

[SKL]

People used to be allowed to put a hopeful spin on things without being accused of trying to cause death and destruction.

[G5052]

Friends and family have talked about the Great Depression, and certainly not everyone weathered well. There were families who pulled together and did well, and others that didn't. As other links have indicated, there was depression, suicide, abuse, alcoholism, and abandonment. In those days, people mostly didn't talk about it because of shame. They hid and denied their problems.  

I volunteer with several ministries seeking to help women battling addiction and/or abuse. And I can tell you that those we try to help are really having a hard time. We are doing what we can with phone calls and Zoom. The women's shelters are full, and there are so very many difficult situations and needs. 

I'm thankful every day that I have solid connections with friends and family, a job, and a place to live. 

[chiguirre]

My dad was born in Central Europe in 1935. He's weathered depression, WWII in a place where the Red Army invaded, hyperinflation, being classified as a kulak under a Communist regime, being a refugee, being an immigrant, 9/11 and now, coronavirus. He doesn't like isolation but he's complying because he doesn't want to die. Just like he didn't want to die in 1945 or 1956 or have a child die in 2001. But he certainly doesn't hold back about complaining. He loves memes and political cartoons and has never been one to rally round the flag. He's always been snarky and cynical about government. It's just a whole bunch safer to bellyache in 2020 America than in 1956 Hungary. 

On the plus side, I think growing up knowing that stuff happens and you're not exempt from it happening to you has made me more resilient. That's served me well dealing with the stuff that's happened to me without becoming clinically depressed or anxious. I've been through ASD, a coup attempt, a national strike, food shortages, hurricanes and the weeks of power outage that follow, 9/11 with a sibling in Lower Manhattan, and now, coronavirus. TBH, this is not the hardest thing for us so far. But, I'm glad there are TP and Tiger King memes to make me laugh everyday. It relieves the boredom and niggling sense of dread. It's nice to virtually share some laughs.

[SKL]

While I wish there weren't deaths and pain involved, I think it is net positive for our kids that they are experiencing firsthand an event that impacts them in various ways - uncertainty, limiting activities, cutting spending, adapting, and especially putting others first.  Up until last month, I kind of worried that our kids were missing something important because everything has come so easily for them.  So far, this pandemic is still not disastrous for most of our kids, but at least it shakes up their idea that things are supposed to always magically work out for them.

[marbel]

26 minutes ago, SKL said:

While I wish there weren't deaths and pain involved, I think it is net positive for our kids that they are experiencing firsthand an event that impacts them in various ways - uncertainty, limiting activities, cutting spending, adapting, and especially putting others first.  Up until last month, I kind of worried that our kids were missing something important because everything has come so easily for them.  So far, this pandemic is still not disastrous for most of our kids, but at least it shakes up their idea that things are supposed to always magically work out for them.

I have been thinking about this. My kids are in their early 20s, juniors in college.  This has for sure been the worst thing to happen to them. (Yes, they have had easy lives.)

They and their peers are looking at a very uncertain future (some of you probably have college seniors who were looking forward to starting careers very soon); they know that people who are dear to them may die.  They are also missing a lot of things they looked forward to (college-related travel, summer internships) and are hearing/reading people chastising them for feeling sad about it. They know that missing out on study abroad or a cool internship at a museum is not a horrific experience. They know they were privileged to even be in the position where it would be possible. They are not sitting around whining about it; they are continuing their studies as best they can. But yeah this all hurts.  And it's scary.  

I think our current young adults have the potential to be the next "greatest generation." This is looking more and more like a war, just of a different kind. I don't think our lives will ever be the same after this.  

Edited April 1, 2020 by marbel

[mom2scouts]

I think previous generations didn't talk about it or complain as much and, as others have said, they didn't have all the communication methods we have to do so. I still think many people were profoundly affected by the difficulties they experienced in life. My FIL was in WW2 in a relatively safe position, but he never said more than a few words about "the guys we sent out in planes in the morning who didn't come back" and absolutely forbid dh from joining the military. My grandfather lived through the Great Depression. He deserted the family and spent the rest of his life as a homeless drifter. We believe he suffered from untreated depression. Another family member was a child in Germany during WW2. The only thing we know is that they fled the bombings and once, after talking about one of our pets, she sadly said they had to eat their pet during the war and none of the kids ate much that night. After I lost a baby, my OB told me that his mother, in her late 80's, still talked about the baby she'd lost sixty years before. I don't know if people did better overall or were more accepting rather than just resigned, but some probably survived the difficulties of life with better support from family, church, and friends than many people have now.

[PrincessMommy]

I haven't read all the replies.  But, two very different things come to mind.. 

1.  In the past people knew how to do without until they could get something.   I never had blueberries all year long and I certainly never just went and replaced my phone if it broke.  We had to save up as a kid. We are such a throw-away prosperous nation that we are used  to getting what we want with 2 day delivery.  We're losing the ability to play the long game.

2. We (America) were much more racist in the past.  I think that is something we're starting to do better at.  

 

[Scarlett]

When I read the title my mind went to my childhood which is  50 years ago. We had very little but we did not complain. We ate what was  put before us, mom made many of our clothes, we limited driving so she would have enough fuel until pay day. We knew we could not afford dance or music lessons so we didn’t ask.  She made a lot of good  things for us, time with friends, time with nature, and she instilled a love of God in us. 
What traumatized me was my mother’s fear and me seeing the injustice of the inequality of life. 

The grumbling that is going in now because people have to stay home.... it does seem like people need to step ok and just do their part to save more lives. 
People who are dying or losing loved ones from this virus THAT is real trauma. 

[Carrie12345]

My great-grandfather was one of five kids. Their father died at age 30. One of his bothers was an alcoholic who died of cirrhosis before 40. The other killed himself. His sister’s husband also died of cirrhosis and then she killed herself. So, no, not everyone managed.

[Emba]

Well, I think it was a combination of things, partly the wider culture but also family culture and economic level. I say this because I interviewed two of my great uncles before they died about their experiences in World War 2. Four out of four brothers in the family were in the war. They came from a poor farm family. They volunteered before they were drafted from a feeling of patriotic duty. Both mentioned three square meals a day and a bed as positive points of the experience. The food wasn’t great but there was always food. From the stories they told about their mom, she was a “look for the silver lining”, make the best of what you have lady. My mom is much the same.

my DH’s grandpa fought the same war. Came from the same area of the country but was a little better off. His family wasn’t well-off during the depression but they did have food all the time and did better than many neighbors. He griped  more about the food onboard ship. 

Read a book by a man who had been on the same ship as my great-uncle, but was from a higher economic class. He was a lot whinier. My mom noticed too when she read it.  I think if you’re used to having more, you have more to miss and complain about, but individual temperament and family culture matter. I know I complain less now because of hearing these family stories. I notice ways my DH’s family culture leads to a slight but noticeably greater amount  complaining and pessimism.

As a culture I believe we’re more individual focused than earlier generations, and probably more accepting of complaints but we’re also overall at a much higher level of everyday comfort. We have more creature comforts to miss. We also make use of complaints as a bonding ritual, and as others have pointed out, have a wide variety of platforms on which to complain and hear complaints.

 

[Laura Corin]

43 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 My parents told horrible stories of life in the 1930’s. My grandparents had an even worse time. Their families starved, more kids died as infants than survived, and divorce in their towns was common( that one surprised me). They may have coped, but it was a hell of a life.

My grandfather used to tell a story about butchering his last hogs, how the neighbors helped, and then the next night all the meat was stolen from the smoke-shed. He suspected someone, and actually got on his horse to go shoot them, but realized he’d be leaving his own kids fatherless if caught. He used to cry like a baby telling it. I was too little then to understand what it all meant.

I've told before about my father being evacuated to Canada in 1940 with his younger brother.  The next evacuation ship was sunk with all on board.  The distant cousin they stayed with burned his books and wouldn't let him go to school, because he was brighter than her boys.  When it was time to come home, he lied to his brother that their mother was very ill, and finally had to drag his brother crying onto the train, because the little boy had bonded with the awful cousin.  My father was 10 when they went to Canada and his brother was 6.  My father cried about it on his deathbed, feeling guilty for lying.  He was always an extremely reserved person who shied away from emotional attachment.  He functioned, but I don't think he was fully well.

[Momto6inIN]

5 hours ago, Sherry in OH said:

In my opinion, the two differences between prior generations' difficult times and our current crisis are

1) Isolation.  Historically,  in times of crisis, people who had a sense of community almost always faired better. While online interactions can help mitigate the sense of aloneness, it cannot entirely replace our innate need for face-to-face interaction and human touch.  

2) Boredom.  In the past, there was much less time to sit about and stew.  There was less overall leisure time as tasks necessary for basic survival took more time.  If you wanted more heat, you couldn't just turn up the thermostat.  You hauled and chopped wood or shoveled coal.  If you didn't have fuel and couldn't fetch or buy any, you bundled up and hoped for warmer weather.    Rural families may endure our current crisis with better mindsets than urban counterparts because they have tasks to occupy their time.  Livestock to feed, fences to mend, fields to plant.

I agree.

People are people, and we all deal (or don't) with hardship to varying degrees in different ways. That was true in the depression and it's true now. But the above 2 points go a long way towards explaining the differences between the seemingly different responses between generations.

I do think our expectations and beliefs about death are different now than in previous generations. Death of loved ones has never been easy - you don't just "get used to it". But our society has come so far in extending good health and preventing aging that death is no longer part of many people's everyday life. In addition, in past generations most people expressed a sincere faith in life after death and meaning beyond this life. Not that faith makes people immune to fears about death ... but they at least had a belief structure to help them cope with that fear. Fewer people claim that kind of faith anymore, and it makes sense that confronting their own mortality and that of their loves ones without that belief structure - combined with being less familiar with death in general - would be more traumatic than in past generations.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, mom2scouts said:

I think previous generations didn't talk about it or complain as much and, as others have said, they didn't have all the communication methods we have to do so. I still think many people were profoundly affected by the difficulties they experienced in life. My FIL was in WW2 in a relatively safe position, but he never said more than a few words about "the guys we sent out in planes in the morning who didn't come back" and absolutely forbid dh from joining the military. My grandfather lived through the Great Depression. He deserted the family and spent the rest of his life as a homeless drifter. We believe he suffered from untreated depression. Another family member was a child in Germany during WW2. The only thing we know is that they fled the bombings and once, after talking about one of our pets, she sadly said they had to eat their pet during the war and none of the kids ate much that night. After I lost a baby, my OB told me that his mother, in her late 80's, still talked about the baby she'd lost sixty years before. I don't know if people did better overall or were more accepting rather than just resigned, but some probably survived the difficulties of life with better support from family, church, and friends than many people have now.

I have experienced this, too. Two of my aunts lost babies as newborns/infants. When my baby died, they both separately, told me about their babies and how they loved and grieved for them. I do think socially and in the medical community, the tone in the past was exceptionally awful and lacking in compassion and closure for infant loss. 

In a related fact, my grandmother had lost two babies in infancy, one a little boy and one a little girl. Also, when my mother was born, allegedly the nurse handed the baby to my gma and told her not to get her hopes up because she keeps turning blue and will probably die. My grandmother was a world-class “worry-wort”, always afraid some calamity would kill us. It didn’t make sense to me as a child, but it sure did make sense to me as an adult, especially after I buried my baby. She knew life was not guaranteed, from personal experience. She knew babies and children die sometimes. She carried that trauma response forever. 

[Rosie_0801]

Inherited trauma makes me think my ancestors weren't coping with anything any better than I am, with generation after generation being formed in a soup of stress hormones.

[Hadley]

14 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Inherited trauma makes me think my ancestors weren't coping with anything any better than I am, with generation after generation being formed in a soup of stress hormones.

If I take nothing else away from this conversation, the idea of generations being formed in a “soup of stress hormones” is forever imprinted on my mind.  We may be related 🤣

[Momto6inIN]

48 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Ok, I think you mean that if you’re totally sure you’re going to heaven, then the trauma/worry is less. Kind of a high risk-high reward thing. I guess that way I can understand.

Kind of? I guess what I'm saying is that a deep and abiding belief in the afterlife brings comfort to many, many people when facing death. Now that that type of belief is no longer nearly as wideapread as it once was in past generations, I can see how that comfort might not be as common either.

[Katy]

I think there are a few things at play.  I don't think they tolerated things better.  I do think they had harder lives, which does two things - 1) gives the culture more of a "suck it up" attitude, even if people weren't handling difficulty any better than now.  And 2) If people don't have major problems then minor problems seem major. If people have had major problems then everything else is the small stuff. People who grew up in the depression and then fought WW2, and who didn't have antibiotics or vaccines had a different scale of what was truly terrible than people today, who fight about the way things make them feel rather than tangible damage.  I think the sign we're being activists about things that are minor overall is a good sign.  I also think this sort of fluffy pampering is why some people send their kids on short term mission trips.  They're probably not doing any actual good gawking at people who have far more difficult lives than them, no matter what the scale of the service project.  But the perspective on what real problems are scales down how serious their huge problems aren't.

I also heard a theory once that (and I'm sorry, I don't remember the name of the book, I think I heard about it on Glenn Beck's show before DH got frustrated with the last election).  Anyway the theory went that generations are cyclical.  Every generation reacts to the excesses of the generation before it.  And I think he said there were 8 generational patterns that repeat throughout history.  Yep I just googled and it was William Strauss' Fourth Turning.  Anyway I never got around to reading the book but it seemed like an interesting and logical concept at the time.

Another thing that came to mind when I first read this but didn't have time to reply earlier was a story about idolizing the greatest generation.  Dave Grossman wrote a book called On Killing that my ex loved. I didn't read the book but I got an earful.  Grossman talked about some (possibly controversial) research that showed MOST soldiers in WW2 weren't able to shoot at other people.  Some couldn't pull a trigger at all. Others would shoot but not aim to kill.  It turns out it's incredibly difficult for MOST people to kill other people.  They'd rather die.  And part of why basic training and boot camps became what they are was in response to that.  They changed targets from round ones shaped like a dartboard to targets that are the outlines of humans.  They discussed the enemy.  They made up songs to march to about their love of their guns. They forced units to work together and get punished together because while many people won't shoot to save themselves, they will shoot to save their buddy.  And it worked.  It turns out we can condition people to kill other people. 

Personally I think my parents generation, the Vietnam generation, was more both more impressive morally and directly responsible for the divisiveness we have today.   Yes I know think tanks encouraged morally demonizing the other side, but long before party management teams started using that strategy baby boomers were using it on each other.

[DesertBlossom]

I haven't read the other replies yet but yes, I think our tolerance for things have gone down. These days we don't have to be uncomfortable hardly ever. Our homes and are cars are climate controlled. Many of us rarely experience true hunger as food is so readily available. If we have a question, google can answer it immediately. It seems like many of our needs can be met immediately. 

If that's all you know, being uncomfortable is going to feel like a big deal. And if things get really bad, it may be beyond our ability to cope.

[Rosie_0801]

9 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

I haven't read the other replies yet but yes, I think our tolerance for things have gone down. These days we don't have to be uncomfortable hardly ever.

 

Really? It seems to me everyone is stressed to the back teeth.

[DawnM]

Well, heck, *I* used to tolerate things better! 🤣

[DesertBlossom]

3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Really? It seems to me everyone is stressed to the back teeth.

I think we stress about different things. But our tolerance for being uncomfortable has gone down because the solution is so readily available. 

 

[DesertBlossom]

4 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Plenty of people, in the 21st Century, in the West, experience hunger, impact of climate etc.

The description of a people who never experience discomfort can surely only apply to a very small proportion of the global population. 

To the same degree that most people, if not all, experienced in previous generations?

[Rosie_0801]

3 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

To the same degree that most people, if not all, experienced in previous generations?

 

With housing prices the way they are, I think it plausible.

[DesertBlossom]

5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

With housing prices the way they are, I think it plausible.

I dunno. Even just thinking about indoor plumbing... I don't know if I'd have the tolerance to hike out to the outhouse in the middle of the night to pee. I mean, I love camping and tolerate for a couple nights, but would hate if that was my life 24/7.  My grandfather used to tell the story about when he was a kid, running home from school knowing there were only a few sliced of bread at home, and sitting down to cry because he knew he couldn't keep up with his siblings who would beat him home to eat it. I am so glad my kids will never know that kind of hunger. I know some do. But it's just not the same today. 

I have a don't-know-how-many-greats- grandmother who had an infected toe that wouldn't heal. The dr wanted $10 to cut it off. She thought that was ridiculous so she took an axe to her toe herself. 

I know I don't have the kind of grit and determination to survive what my ancestors went through. I am trying to grow a garden and about to give up because I can't keep the grass from overtaking my garden bed. I'd probably try harder if my life literally depended on it.

[Lucy the Valiant]

I actually do think previous generations in my country were tougher than modern generations. But one reason they may SEEM tougher is that - when we were the children, they were the parents. So (at least in strong, functional families) the parents often took the brunt of the grief and tried to spare their children, the same way *WE right now are trying to be honest with our own kids but also absorb some of the grief & anxiety ourselves in order to spare them whatever we can. I have had the life-altering privilege to observe this generational protection up close and personal, through wrenching grief, KNOWING the pain of one generation but SEEING the (relatively) easier grace extended to the younger generation. 

[easypeasy]

I didn't read other replies before replying - but I mean, those people didn't have reliable... anything! No air conditioning! No giant spa tubs to soak in at night. No gym memberships. No microwave. No fast food. No "instant" anything! Families had one (or zero) cars. Kids generally went to school and to church - otherwise, they played outside with the neighbor kids, whoever they were. Little pain control for everyday pains. Women had few options for birth control and, shoot, menstruation was still a major PITA. So, when things went to shit... well... it was just more episode of "hard" life dealt to them. I think bad-time things sucked less because everyday things already sucked so much!

We (speaking of most Americans) are soft and squishy. Mere inconvenience sort of stumps my kids because they're just so accustomed to automatic and easy!

I don't think it equate that we are "lazier" but we do work differently than generations past.

Edited April 2, 2020 by easypeasy