AAPC has all their books 40% off!!!

[PeterPan]

Great stuff. You're sure to find something you didn't realize you need. They run this kind of huge sale maybe once a year, so this is the time to buy. They have the interoception assessments and main book. They have stuff on cooking, conversation, social skills, you name it. 

https://www.aapcpublishing.com/

[Cymbol]

Thanks!  Great find.  If you enter “highfive” you can get an additional 5% off.

[kbutton]

I'm curious if any of you know about these books/authors:

https://www.aapcpublishing.com/collections/sale/products/autism-as-context-blindness?variant=23029035171888

https://www.aapcpublishing.com/collections/sale/products/ask-and-tell?variant=23029034647600

 

[PeterPan]

16 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I'm curious if any of you know about these books/authors:

https://www.aapcpublishing.com/collections/sale/products/autism-as-context-blindness?variant=23029035171888

https://www.aapcpublishing.com/collections/sale/products/ask-and-tell?variant=23029034647600

 

So that first book is putting forward a theory, a perspective, and it's something people talk about a lot. So yes, it would be worth reading. I can't remember if I got it and skimmed or never got it. It's going into the whole gestalt thinking question.

Ok, the 2nd book is not one I would ever buy, because I have a really sucky terrible attitude about things like that. I have almost zero interest in other people's stories and I don't think people's reflections on themselves are necessarily accurate. But, you know, it's the fad and what NTs do. So whatever. Like I said, I have a bad attitude. The book is what it is and clearly they thought it would teach someone something. There's sort of this weird glorification of ASD sometimes in the professional community, and I could go on a little diatribe about that. 

Total random extra on that, since the book is about self-advocacy and disclosure. There's this thought out there (put out by some people in the autism community who are on the spectrum who have some big letters behind them) who say that ALL people should disclose, that kids need adults to be out, on and on. And you know, I kinda feel like THAT'S THEIR OPINION. I don't really buy into the joy ride, spectrum is great thing. I think all people have value and I hope everybody finds a way and it works out for them. But I'm not in the rah rah camp, none of that. And clearly I'm not in the all people should be "out" camp. 

So I guess the thing with books like that is what you do with it. It's sorta like reading about homeschooling. When you're a novice, you spend a lot of time asking other people how to do it. Then after a year you're an expert. After a few years you're published. And after enough more, you're bored with the whole thing and you quietly do it while moving on to other things. And I think that's how spectrum can be. Like really, when does it stop with "experts" telling us how to live? When are we not experts on ourselves and our own minds and what we want?

Small diatribe over.

PS. I would skim that 2nd book at OCALICON, sure. It's probably interesting. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by PeterPan

[kbutton]

12 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

So I guess the thing with books like that is what you do with it.

I would like to know if it's practical for deciding when, how, and why to disclose. DS can often pass as NT (more so all the time), but when he can't, it can bring people up short. 

[Lecka]

I have seen video of Stephen Shore.  I like him.  I’m not sure if I have seen video he put up or video other people used with him in it.  Maybe you can check him out on YouTube, though.  Some things I know about him:  he gives piano lessons to children with autism... he is similar to Temple Grandin in that he was recommended to go into an institution but his parents kept him home and figured out their own ways to work with him, I think he was nonverbal until he was 4 or 5 (I remember thinking he was similar to my son), and he uses public transportation and I have seen a video of him showing how he uses public transportation.  
 

For Peter Vermeulen — I am familiar with his theory but haven’t read this book.  I think there is a good overview of the theory on “autism internet modules.”  But it’s a very short summary compared to reading a whole book!  I think he is mainstream and respected.  I doubt it is parent- friendly and I have a sense that my knowledge level is appropriate with the “autism internet modules” summary.  But I’m also not super-interested.  I think if it looks interesting, it is probably pretty good.   

[Lecka]

For Stephen Shore and Temple Grandin I think both of them are people who have successfully advocated and had success with employment.  I would expect them to have good thoughts and experiences to share.  

[Lecka]

http://www.madisonhouseautism.org/autism-gurus-stephen-shore-ed-d-focuses-ability/

This is just something from an internet search — but you can see his picture and get a feel for him.

I have read several books by Temple Grandin and seen her speak and got to ask her a question at a lunch.  Totally like her 🙂  I don’t agree with every single thing she says or think every opinion she has is relevant here, but I totally like her and am interested in her opinions.  

Edited April 2, 2020 by Lecka

[Lecka]

It’s been a while but I looked at the module list (for autism Internet modules) and I think “cognitive differences” and maybe the section “autism: the biopsychosocial model” would be the ones.  I haven’t been on there is a few years though, at this point, but I remember thinking “at last an understandable summary.”

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, kbutton said:

I would like to know if it's practical for deciding when, how, and why to disclose.

You know, it's kind of conspicuous that there are *no* articles on this on the Social Thinking website, even though it's surely an issue that has come up in their practice, considering they like working with older kids.

This might be the kind of issue where you get six different people, six different takes. 

I think if you read the book yourself or the BCBA or whoever is working with him now reads it and talks it through with him, that could work. Is he getting psych counseling? Who is he working with now to problem solve? 

If he's in settings where he's having these problems, then the *larger* question is how he's attempting to problem solve. That would be the bigger thing to address, and then let that structure/person/support strategy help him work through this. 

Or maybe he doesn't need that. Just saying he might. For a few years here, during the BIG SHIFT from totally at home to out in the world, he's probably going to have a lot of issues to sort through, not just that.

 

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Is he getting psych counseling? Who is he working with now to problem solve? 

If he's in settings where he's having these problems, then the *larger* question is how he's attempting to problem solve. That would be the bigger thing to address, and then let that structure/person/support strategy help him work through this. 

Or maybe he doesn't need that. Just saying he might. For a few years here, during the BIG SHIFT from totally at home to out in the world, he's probably going to have a lot of issues to sort through, not just that.

I don't want to get too into deep weeds as I answer, but he's not really getting counseling and hasn't ever really. He sometimes talks to one that we use for more general family counseling. He's generally happy, productive, etc. at this stage. 

Mindwings has helped a great deal with problem-solving and then communicating it. It puts words to things so we don't have to do that for him nearly as much. His bigger issues are thinking that is more concrete or black and white than someone else. But it's more of an extreme end of normal, and it's often not a problem at all. For instance, my other kid just asked him a question about something, and he assigned an arbitrary timeline to the question that caused him to answer too restrictively. Sometimes the same question would evoke a big stream of information instead, lol! But all of that is more flexible and better than it has ever been, and it's often pretty much in the range of normal.

His lifeskills are so, so good. Like, kids with his IQ that are doing all kinds of amazing scholastic things but can't get out of bed in the AM? That's not him. He's super responsible about practical things--getting up, hygiene, meds, money, going to bed, his room, laundry, cooking, working, etc. A friend of ours (who has teenagers) has been super surprised that we have any issues at all with his autism anymore (other than academic--she knows that's quirky) because they've worked together on things around our home, her home (small group), or at church, and it's just not obvious. If something comes up in this realm, it's almost always a communication issue. 

He has friends at band and at youth group. I don't know who knows and doesn't know in his circle of friends, but their parents always assume he's doing DE and stuff like that--parents that interact with him some or see him interact with their kids. So, he blends virtually all the time now.

[Lecka]

I just skimmed it, but the Stephen Shore thing I linked has a graphic about disclosing.  It looks like it’s focused on noticing when there is a problem (that would be helped by sharing information or asking for help), and then choices to make about how much to disclose in a practical way.  It looks like it’s practical. 

But off the top of my head, I think it might connect more with people who are not as much passing.  I think it does make a difference in what to share and how things are taken.  
 

I think when someone is not passing, it is more like — okay, you will probably have more of a routine with disclosing and advocating.

You might see more in common with ADHD or things where it is still a thing, but not as visible.  
 

Just a thought.  
 

Or it might be something where you looked at self-advocacy as far as asking for help or information, but disclosing wouldn’t often be something that came up.  
 

 

[Lecka]

I think that the book probably addresses those things, though.  I think those are issues Stephen Shore is known for.  I think he is known for transition and adult employment.  
 

I saw videos with him at the autism workshop I went to, and i do have a good impression.  

[Lecka]

Also this is my impression of Temple Grandin — I think she is in favor of being very strategic with disclosure as far as employment.  She is not blanketly in favor of an ideology — she wants successful employment.  /my impression

 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

You might see more in common with ADHD or things where it is still a thing, but not as visible.  
 

Just a thought.  
 

Or it might be something where you looked at self-advocacy as far as asking for help or information, but disclosing wouldn’t often be something that came up.  

I didn't see some of your replies for some reason, but then I did when I came back. Thanks!

This rings true for me. I think that I am frustrated though that I don't see more ADHD people self-advocate, so I don't know what that looks like either. I feel like they wait until someone is mad at them or they're up a creek or they just don't connect the ADHD to the problems. Then people don't think as well of them--they've already been burned by something that is not working due to the ADHD. (This is mostly impressions from extended family.)

[PeterPan]

@kbutton I think what you're running into is that just saying "autism" won't get him the support or understanding he needs, because "autism" is subject to societal definition/expectations. And I agree with Lecka that reading a book by people who are in a totally different place is not necessarily going to be something he identifies with. Sometimes the people who are "popular" shall we say at OCALICON etc. are highly affected. Like they're visibly on the spectrum, walking down the street. Even the people who are like oh I wasn't diagnosed till I was 25 are still significantly affected in that really wow kinda way. 

I also think he's living with you in a less complicated situation with full support. Things will look really different if demands change, expectations change. 

Many people who function at his level will go a long time without being diagnosed, and yet they go work a job and say SOMETHING. What do they say? They probably don't even say ADHD. They probably say exactly what they need. 

[Crimson Wife]

Thanks for the tip about the sale. I bought Nurturing Narratives, which I know I've looked at it before but back then most of it was beyond my DD's level. Now that she's made progress on the basics of a narrative, this looks like a great resource to expand that foundation.

[Lecka]

Nurturing Narratives looks so good!