disobeying social distancing, or not.

[katilac]

9 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

My county is over 70 miles long and trying to keep people off of our beaches is impractical, though I wish they would find a way.  

Sure, it's difficult. Sure, they're going to miss some people. But officially closing the beaches would send the right message and a certain number of people would obey that. Of the ones who don't, patrolling could most definitely reduce the numbers. 

It doesn't have to be perfect to be good. 

[hippiemamato3]

12 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

The inability to defer personal wants/preferences is going to doom the western world. We can, literally, save lives by doing...NOTHING. How hard is that? Apparently, very hard.

It is, actually. It is very hard. For those who suffer from depression or anxiety or any other mental illness - it is really, really hard. 

[katilac]

9 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

It is, actually. It is very hard. For those who suffer from depression or anxiety or any other mental illness - it is really, really hard. 

Yes. I think some of us are underestimating how hard it can be for others. 

[Sneezyone]

33 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

It is, actually. It is very hard. For those who suffer from depression or anxiety or any other mental illness - it is really, really hard. 

 

Yeah, well, I have had three major bouts of depression in my life requiring hospitalization and/or medication and my sister is pregnant with bipolar 2. People in China, and Italy, and Iran, and Korea, and everywhere else in the world share these challenges and they're doing it in much more densely packed quarters than we are. Most of the people making these choices to throw caution to the wind aren't struggling with these illnesses. This is a systemic, cultural issue.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[hippiemamato3]

12 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Yeah, well, I have had three major bouts of depression in my life requiring hospitalization and/or medication and my sister is pregnant with bipolar 2. People in China, and Italy, and Iran, and Korea, and everywhere else in the world share these challenges and they're doing it in much more densely packed quarters than we are. Most of the people making these choices to throw caution to the wind aren't struggling with these illnesses. This is a systemic, cultural issue.

Your experiences, and your sister's, don't negate the experiences of the many other people who suffer - not just 3 times in their life, but every day.  

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Your experiences, and your sister's, don't negate the experiences of the many other people who suffer - not just 3 times in their life, but every day.  

 

Nope,  they don't. Nor does 'mental health' excuse a NATIONAL pattern of people ignoring the health and welfare of fellow citizens. Mental health issues exist all over the world. We're just not that special.

[Pen]

13 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Your experiences, and your sister's, don't negate the experiences of the many other people who suffer - not just 3 times in their life, but every day.  

 

That’s no doubt true, but what can be done, do you think to ease depression while following physical distancing?

 Maybe emphasize *physical* distance while finding ways to *socialize* safely by phone, online, etc?

(I don’t believe that the majority of the kids partying on the beach have depression issues, nor the ladies wanting to have a beautician color their roots, etc.   But for argument sake let’s say they do—what’s a good and safe answer ?) 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Pen

[hippiemamato3]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That’s no doubt true, but what can be done, do you think to ease depression while following physical distancing?

 Maybe emphasize *physical* distance while finding ways to *socialize* safely by phone, online, etc?

(I don’t believe that the majority of the kids partying on the beach have depression issues, nor the ladies wanting to have a beautician color their roots, etc.   But for argument sake let’s say they do—what’s a good and safe answer ?) 

 

I think we have selfish people here, for sure - I was simply saying that it's NOT EASY. Everyone keeps saying "all we have to do is stay home - it's not hard" but it IS hard. We are doing it. Using the House Party app to keep communication open and sending time outside and focusing on being together as a family. But every day is hard, and it's not getting easier. 

[ktgrok]

9 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That’s no doubt true, but what can be done, do you think to ease depression while following physical distancing?

 Maybe emphasize *physical* distance while finding ways to *socialize* safely by phone, online, etc?

(I don’t believe that the majority of the kids partying on the beach have depression issues, nor the ladies wanting to have a beautician color their roots, etc.   But for argument sake let’s say they do—what’s a good and safe answer ?) 

If talking to other helps, then yes, phone calls, video chat, online forums, or even chatting with a neighbor - just stay 6 ft away. I've had plenty of conversations with my neighbors over the years from across the street. They are doing their yard work, I'm taking out the trash, we chat from our respective sides. 

[Sneezyone]

I am literally receiving calls from my sibling two to three times a week (and she lives with my mother) so we are both pressed by this. I am, and have been, feeling the effects of her unmedicated state for weeks. She's still not roaming the streets demanding to visit public parks, reopen the government, and get her hair done. People with mental health challenges are a bigger threat to themselves than the wider world. If she can do it, so can able-bodied people.

[Tree Frog]

My dd cashiers at a local fast food restaurant that doesn't have a drive thru. Today someone came in wearing a mask and told dd that he had just flown in from another country and was self quarantining. She took about 3 steps backwards, but was afraid she would lose her job if she told him off. She said he should've gotten the message by all the glares she sent his way. It's people like this who give self quarantining a bad name. He should've been on the local AF base with the people from the cruise ship since he couldn't be trusted. I'm hoping it's just a rude prank instead of him ignoring his quarantine!

She was called in to work today because of a catering order for 20 people. That would be 15-20 people ignoring social distancing and having a meeting with more than 10 people.

What is wrong with people!?!!

[gardenmom5]

14 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

My dd cashiers at a local fast food restaurant that doesn't have a drive thru. Today someone came in wearing a mask and told dd that he had just flown in from another country and was self quarantining. She took about 3 steps backwards, but was afraid she would lose her job if she told him off. She said he should've gotten the message by all the glares she sent his way. It's people like this who give self quarantining a bad name. He should've been on the local AF base with the people from the cruise ship since he couldn't be trusted. I'm hoping it's just a rude prank instead of him ignoring his quarantine!

She was called in to work today because of a catering order for 20 people. That would be 15-20 people ignoring social distancing and having a meeting with more than 10 people.

What is wrong with people!?!!

some of these "pranksters" are now under consideration to be charged with terrorism.  there was one woman who coughed on the produce in a grocery store and claimed she has covid19.  (I dont' know if she does or not.)  all the produce had to be thrown out, and the whole area sanitized.  it cost the store $35K.   Dont' know if they caught her or not - but they were certainly planning on arresting her.

tell your dd to ask the manager if she can tell off someone in a similar position - because there will be more.  telling people off who are supposed to be in quarantine and forcing them to leave is protecting staff and other customers.

[Tree Frog]

3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

some of these "pranksters" are now under consideration to be charged with terrorism.  there was one woman who coughed on the produce in a grocery store and claimed she has covid19.  (I dont' know if she does or not.)  all the produce had to be thrown out, and the whole area sanitized.  it cost the store $35K.   Dont' know if they caught her or not - but they were certainly planning on arresting her.

I saw that and was horrified! These aren't the harmless pranks we used to do as kids (Is your refrigerator running? Better go catch it!). They have huge consequences. I expect these are people who can't see past this minute at what they're doing. Or they just don't care. Or they think it's funny to infect people. Who knows! But stupidity in some people is rampant!

[Junie]

The situation with the woman coughing on food in the grocery store is local to where I grew up.

Apparently the woman is known in the community for being a nuisance and it appears that she is undergoing a mental health evaluation.

https://www.fox43.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/grocery-store-tosses-35000-in-food-after-woman-coughed-on-it-co-owner-claims/521-31af9306-2797-44bc-b2b3-13bf21121b53

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Junie said:

The situation with the woman coughing on food in the grocery store is local to where I grew up.

Apparently the woman is known in the community for being a nuisance and it appears that she is undergoing a mental health evaluation.

https://www.fox43.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/grocery-store-tosses-35000-in-food-after-woman-coughed-on-it-co-owner-claims/521-31af9306-2797-44bc-b2b3-13bf21121b53

just like the guy who was licking ice cream and putting it back in the freezer case is undergoing mental health evaulations.

but some people are pulling pranks like this because they think it's funny.  (two guys in hazmats suits on public transit, deliberately breaking a jar they clamed contained covi19.)

[regentrude]

10 hours ago, Pen said:

That’s no doubt true, but what can be done, do you think to ease depression while following physical distancing?

 Maybe emphasize *physical* distance while finding ways to *socialize* safely by phone, online, etc?

(I don’t believe that the majority of the kids partying on the beach have depression issues, nor the ladies wanting to have a beautician color their roots, etc.   But for argument sake let’s say they do—what’s a good and safe answer ?) 

No, of course many people who socialize are not depressed, and many people who are suffering from depression are following the rules. The comments never claimed that all who are gathering are mentally ill. The point of the comments was that it is NOT easy for many people, and being told "just stay home, it is easy" feels like another smack in the face for those who are complying but are struggling with their mental health while doing it. No, it.is.not.easy, and the toll this is taking on people's mental health makes me very, very concerned.

Socializing via phone/computer helps some. But that, too, is tricky, because many people who can normally be supportive are now struggling themselves and do not have the emotional bandwidth. Which the depressed person knows, and so they are less likely to reach out because they don't want to burden their friends and do not feel they themselves can be a source of support. 
For persons with anxiety, it is difficult when every single conversation turns towards the pandemic within minutes. Then talking to people may make things worse.

Other things that would help many would be outdoor exercise. Which can be safely done in many places, but not everywhere. And leaving the house, even when it is objectively fairly safe, is now a source of tremendous anxiety for some persons who suffer from anxiety, and they avoid it because it causes them too much mental stress. (If the only way to leave the house involves pressing elevator buttons and touching door handles shared with hundreds of people, that's quite different from stepping out the front door  of your own home in the suburbs)  For people who live in small apartments, exercise at home is limited and not a substitute for the vigorous activities they have found helpful for their mental health. When they would need it most, they can't have it.

So maybe, instead of harping on how "easy" it is, it would be kinder to acknowledge that isolation and lack of exercise in this general atmosphere of uncertainty and danger can make it very hard for some people. Doesn't mean they're not doing it. But they may be at breaking point. 

ETA: And let's not forget all the people who are forced to isolate at home with their abusers. I cannot even begin to imagine what they must be going through. There is nothing easy about it for them.

Edited March 27, 2020 by regentrude

[Wheres Toto]

I'm not having a problem social distancing, but my anxiety, depression, adhd, whatever is making it very difficult to be productive.    I do much much better with an outside imposed schedule to my days, I even get non scheduled activities done better when there's some framework to my days.    I had a good schedule of work, homeschool, exercise, and social time going before all this and replacing it all with alternatives at once isn't going so well.   But I've never been social, so that parts okay.    But I then start to feel guilty about all the things I SHOULD be doing.

I do realize how lucky we are.  We live in a very quiet neighborhood on an acre lot.  We can take hikes, walks, play games outside, etc. (weather permitting which is still iffy here) without worrying about running into anyone.  My kids are super introverts who aren't having too much trouble with this at all.  Dh is 63 so gets to do the early morning shopping hours, he wears gloves and is actually used to proper procedure wearing and removing them since he works in a lab regularly, and he's still working from home so we aren't worried about money or food.   For right now, nobody we know is sick.   I go to my science center almost every day which is a change of scenery and a motivation to get some work done (I have to feed animals and family members are the only ones who have been there in 2 weeks).  

Yet, my house is still a mess, the laundry isn't done, I haven't planned any Zoom classes or activities during the shut down, I'm not doing any planning for when the shut down is over, homeschooling is mainly happening because we were already doing it.   And I"m not sleeping well at all. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Where's Toto?

[Jean in Newcastle]

When my city leaders say, “Stay Home.  Save Lives.  It’s that easy”.  They mean that the CONCEPT is easy. The execution is not a walk in the park for any of us. But to be blunt, it’s a pandemic. It’s not business as usual. It’s not”no big deal”. We are at war with a virus and there is a lot out of our control. But we do what we can to help our mental health including reaching out to your doctor if you need meds right now to get through this. 

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, OKBud said:

It's not hard to understand.

As in, it may be difficult, but it's not complicated. 

sure. But the connotation in which it's used implies that it is not hard to do. Because hey, we now have all so much lovely time and can do the things we always wanted to do, make art and meditate and bake. And if you feel loneliness, you simply have to have a positive mind frame and rephrase it as pleasant solitude that allows you time for wonderful introspection. And we're all resting and healing the earth. Kumbayah.

and similar bullshit.

[regentrude]

Just now, Jean in Newcastle said:

 But we do what we can to help our mental health including reaching out to your doctor if you need meds right now to get through this. 

Not sure if I want to laugh or cry. My friends who are medicated for their mental illness can't simply "reach out to their doctor". Wait times to see a psychiatrist even in times of not-pandemic are long, costs are high, many insurances offer little to no mental health coverage, and medication may not work. And people who feel suicidal cannot risk contacting a doctor and admitting it, because  involuntary hospitalization in times of the pandemic is dangerous. 

A friend of mine is currently recovering from a suicide attempt. He has been under the care of doctors, tried oodles of different medications, and nothing helps. The pandemic doesn't make it better.

[Wheres Toto]

I think part of the problem is the concept is easy but the execution isn't necessarily, even for those of us who aren't social  

Plus...

IF I didn't have high risk people in my family (including me, asthma) and 

IF dh didn't work in pharmaceuticals and was already seeing the difficulties in getting API and supplies a month ago and

IF we didn't both have a decent understanding of the science behind it (him chemistry and statistics, me biology) and 

IF we weren't watching the news and hearing about what's happening in other areas on here and

IF we weren't in an area that's being hit pretty hard and did early lockdowns, but especially if I was in an area where the people in charge were being wishy-washy....

It may be easy to convince myself it was no big deal and the restrictions were just suggestions and there was no reason to not continue on with those activities that aren't against the law.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Where's Toto?

[Jean in Newcastle]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Not sure if I want to laugh or cry. My friends who are medicated for their mental illness can't simply "reach out to their doctor". Wait times to see a psychiatrist even in times of not-pandemic are long, costs are high, many insurances offer little to no mental health coverage, and medication may not work. And people who feel suicidal cannot risk contacting a doctor and admitting it, because  involuntary hospitalization in times of the pandemic is dangerous. 

A friend of mine is currently recovering from a suicide attempt. He has been under the care of doctors, tried oodles of different medications, and nothing helps. The pandemic doesn't make it better.

Of course it doesn’t make it better. And yes, I understand the extreme difficulties.  But the only  way to even hope to control this pandemic is to socially distance or physically (not emotionally) self isolate. No one can change that reality unless you are able to live in tyvex suits with respirators.  But having been in those suits for long hours doing asbestos abatement, I can tell you that they are not conducive to strenuous exercise or to easy socializing. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, Happymomof1 said:

Then understand.  We are NOT saying we shouldn't do it.  That isn't our point.  The point is to quit saying it is easy when it is not!!!  At least not for everyone. 

But we explained to you that the “easy” part doesn’t refer to the execution of it but the concept. 

[regentrude]

Just now, Happymomof1 said:

Oh, yes, reach out to your doctor.... the family practice who is dealing with overwhelm because he has tons of people with similar symptoms, can't get tests, eetc.  Or my psychiatrist, who when the world was "normal" had a 3 month wait.  I'm NOT feeling suicidal.  Stressed.  Yes, but to flippantly say, "You poor dear, just reach out to your doctor.."  GRRR

And for people who are feeling suicidal, the advice is to go to the ER. Yeah sure. To sit for several hours among patients with respiratory illness just to end up in the psych ward. Might as well shoot yourself right away.

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

But we explained to you that the “easy” part doesn’t refer to the execution of it but the concept. 

You may have, in this thread - but  there are plenty of other posts who tell people how much better and easier they have it than our grandparents, and how they're a bunch of whiners if they complain when they have netflix and internet and what not at their disposal and that they should shut up and stop being such babies (maybe not those exact words, but that sentiment). So basically, the old "pull yourself together and stop being depressed" advice

Edited March 27, 2020 by regentrude

[Sneezyone]

9 minutes ago, regentrude said:

You may have, in this thread - but  there are plenty of other posts who tell people how much better and easier they have it than our grandparents, and how they're a bunch of whiners if they complain when they have netflix and internet and what not at their disposal and that they should shut up and stop being such babies (maybe not those exact words, but that sentiment). So basically, the old "pull yourself together and stop being depressed" advice

Are you serious right now? I specifically talked about making do with substitute food stuffs not meds. Gimme a break. The idea that the problems we have here are so unique as to render our problems insurmountable compared to other countries is seriously flawed. That doesn’t mean everyone comes through it without pain. It means other people have and continue to confront those issues and STILL comply. I spent 30 minutes being grilled today by a 9yo who could t understand why Americans were moving about so much. He drew all kinds of virus and airplane diagrams on the screen in an effort to communicate his concerns. He hasn’t been outside since January. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[hippiemamato3]

34 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

But we explained to you that the “easy” part doesn’t refer to the execution of it but the concept. 

We don't need you to explain it to us - we're not idiots. The concept is irrelevant because the execution is what people are actually living. Good grief. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by hippiemamato3

[regentrude]

24 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Are you serious right now? I specifically talked about making do with substitute food stuffs not meds. Gimme a break. The idea that the problems we have here are so unique as to render our problems insurmountable compared to other countries is seriously flawed. That doesn’t mean everyone comes through it without pain. It means other people have and continue to confront those issues and STILL comply.

I am very serious, but you are apparently not reading what I am saying. I have nowhere advocated for not complying. I was mainly pointing out that the rhetoric that we just need to try harder to have a positive attitude is not helpful. Nobody tells a diabetic to just suck it up and make more insulin, or a cancer patient to just stop having tumors, but people feel perfectly justified in telling persons with mental problems they should just stop being depressed/anxious/manic and have a better attitude. 

Again, saying this very s l o w l y: nobody is saying people should just flout the rules. Nobody is saying mental struggles are an excuse for that. 

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by regentrude

[Pen]

11 minutes ago, regentrude said:

And for people who are feeling suicidal, the advice is to go to the ER. Yeah sure. To sit for several hours among patients with respiratory illness just to end up in the psych ward. Might as well shoot yourself right away.

 

Currently there is apparently different advice for people feeling depressed, anxious etc. in USA

There is a phone number to call for support, and a good idea to call it sooner rather than later. Ideally when talk may help and stomach pump or wrist sutures aren’t yet needed. 

I posted it before on some thread. I don’t have it available right now, but will post it again if possible later.

 It was on the state of Oregon, Covid-19, Oregon Health Authority information page online if anyone here needs it for friend, loved one, or self.  It is an 800 type number though may begin 866 or 888 and afaik is supposed to be nationwide       It is a hotline for people with emotional health issues related to disaster situations .   I am in part deliberately not looking it up right now to repost it, because I think that for depressed people taking an action like looking something up themselves can be a bit of a help itself . 

Parts of USA and Canada have 211 phone lines and/or websites:

“Currently, active 211 systems cover all or part of 50 states. As of February 2015, 2-1-1 serves over 291 million Americans (93% of the entire population) covering portions of all 50 states (including 41 states with 90%+ coverage) plus Washington DC and Puerto Rico. Yet, millions of Americans still need to be connected to make 2-1-1 accessible nationwide.

...

Types of Referrals Offered by 211: 211 provides callers with information about and referrals to social services for every day needs and in times of crisis. For example, 2-1-1 can offer access to the following types of services:

• Basic Human Needs Resources – including food and clothing, shelters, housing, utility assistance.
• Disaster Response and Recovery – works with the emergency management team during a disaster to offer support and place for dissemination of information.
• Mental Health and Health Resources – including counseling, support groups, drug and alcohol treatment, health insurance programs, Medicaid and Medicare, maternal health resources, health insurance programs for children, medical information lines, clinics, and hospitals.  ... “

 

....  In many places now there are telehealth telemedicine programs related to emotional health.  In many places there are people helping each other programs such as for example 

https://www.cci-usa.org/what_is.php

Co-counseling International  — I don’t know if they have set up anything for during CV19, but afaik it can be done over phone.  However initially the first group training class may need to be in person. But perhaps could be changed for State of Emergency.

In UK I believe one is supposed to call NHS 111 line... 

There are now online counseling programs some free some charged.  I don’t know if they would be open or shut for CV19. 

There are some excellent books that may help people.  

If @OKBud or someone else starts another thread maybe they can be posted there

[marbel]

30 minutes ago, regentrude said:

You may have, in this thread - but  there are plenty of other posts who tell people how much better and easier they have it than our grandparents, and how they're a bunch of whiners if they complain when they have netflix and internet and what not at their disposal and that they should shut up and stop being such babies (just slight hyperbole). So basically, the old "pull yourself together and stop being depressed" advice

Thank you for this and your other posts on the topic. 

My family is complying, willingly.  We all understand the need to do so. But no we don't like it. Like many others I am used to the freedom to come and go as I please. My college kids were enjoying a robust social life for the first time ever, and now they are home trapped with parents. (Yes, making use of technology to socialize as best they can.) I'm so tired of having fingers shaken in my face every time I mention that I or one of my kids is having a hard time with the upheaval. We acknowledge that compared with living through wars, famines, etc., this is nothing. It's still hard.  Why it is not OK to just say that? 

 

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am very serious, but you are apparently not reading what I am saying. I have nowhere advocated for not complying. I was mainly pointing out that the rhetoric that we just need to try harder to have a positive attitude is not helpful. Nobody tells a diabetic to just suck it up and make more insulin, or a cancer patient to just stop having tumors, but people feel perfectly justified in telling persons with mental problems they should just stop being depressed/anxious/manic and have a better attitude. 

Again, saying this very s l o w l y: nobody is saying people should just flout the rules. Nobody is saying mental struggles are an excuse for that. 

 

Nobody here said people with mental health challenges should just ‘suck it up’ and ‘stop being depressed’ either. My rhetoric was specifically about making do with what we have not making more of what we don’t and there wasn’t a word about attitude but about ACTIONS. Complain away. The thread was specifically about actual non-compliance with social distancing recommendations.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

 

 

 

I think all of these tell us whining about how hard it is makes us a wimp.  Again, I am doing it.  But posts like these make me feel like I am a horrible person for finding it hard. 

How you feel about what I said didn’t change the accuracy of the comments. We are being asked to save lives by doing nothing and that is apparently very hard for people in western societies to accomplish. Perhaps we are overrun by people with mental health challenges, or perhaps we are overrun by people who cannot overcome those for a greater purpose, or perhaps its an epidemic of selfishness. Either way, the fact is, we suck at social distancing. I really don’t care whether people complain WHILE they engage in social distancing. I care about whether they are actually doing it and, thus far, it’s a piss poor job.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Happymomof1 said:

 

True, because human beings are MADE for community.   Our DNA is meant to have social connections.  Physical ones, not virtual.

The humans in the western world are no different from humans elsewhere. They’re managing. Why can’t we? THAT was my point. THAT is my question. I have t gotten a good answer yet.

[marbel]

Except that the thing about sitting and watching netflix all day does not fit most peoples' reality, as far as I can tell. 

My kids and I are adjusting to school/work at home. We are not watching netflix. Our TV is blocked by stacks of boxes brought home from college; there is no place in the house to put them. My unemployed husband is still looking for work, at a time when a lot of places are shutting or slowing operations down.  

All the things we are doing are doable, but they are not easy.  

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Happymomof1 said:

They are managing because they live in China or other places where people are FORCED to lock things down.  Places that do not have authoritarian leaders are having just as hard a time as we are.

Again— Japan, Korea, Singapore...all democracies.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The humans in the western world are no different from humans elsewhere. They’re managing. Why can’t we? THAT was my point. THAT is my question. I have t gotten a good answer yet.

I have lived under a communist regime, and based on my experiences I would assume people in China complying with authorities isn't exclusively because they are so much more enlightened or civic minded, but rather because they are used to their authoritarian government exercising its full power at will.

 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I have lived under a communist regime, and based on my experiences I would assume people in China complying with authorities isn't exclusively because they are so much more enlightened or civic minded, but rather because they are used to their authoritarian government exercising its full power at will.

 

AGAIN—CHINA ISN’T THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE EAST nor the one with the best results.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

AGAIN—CHINA ISN’T THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE EAST nor the one with the best results.

yeah, and in Japan, 50,000 people went to see the Olympic flame on Saturday, standing in a  500 m long line for several hours. (While the Greeks banned the public from the lighting ceremony)

This is an issue of human nature, not of the Western World.

Edited March 27, 2020 by regentrude

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Happymomof1 said:

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/03/14fb6e803d74-feature-japan-struggling-to-get-a-grip-on-social-distancing.html

Singapore is fining and putting people in jail. ( Which is what would have to happen here for it to work.)

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/singapore-imposes-jail-and-fines-for-breaches-of-public-social-distancing.html

 

We have the same capability here...so...yeah.

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, regentrude said:

yeah, and in Japan, 50,000 people went to see the Olympic flame lighted  on Saturday, standing in a  500 m long line for several hours.

This is an issue of human nature, not of the Western World.

They also have a much better handle on how many people within their population have been infected so...again...yeah. The fact remains, the Western world has proven to be an abysmal failure at securing and demanding compliance with public health measures.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Happymomof1 said:

That I can completely agree with.  The fact that people are different in the East than from the West, not so much.  We are all social creatures.  What governments are able to do makes a difference.

I just have not seen the widespread disregard for risk, science, or community in that part of the world that I have seen in Western countries. I don’t think the people are fundamentally different. I think the cultures are fundamentally different. There is much we could learn, not just about effective leadership, but also about responsibility.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This thread was started specifically because of frustration with people who were out partying on beaches etc. The Netflix thing is a funny meme. I pointed out that we have a lot more freedom in what we can do. Pointing out how my 95 year old mom is rolling with the punches is more about how she’s learned to be a realist while also learning to be resilient. (How that looks for different people is going to depend on the individuals.). I see it as something to aspire to but then she is my mom so I am biased. 

[marbel]

48 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

<snip>The Netflix thing is a funny meme. I pointed out that we have a lot more freedom in what we can do.

Pointing out how my 95 year old mom is rolling with the punches is more about how she’s learned to be a realist while also learning to be resilient. (How that looks for different people is going to depend on the individuals.). I see it as something to aspire to but then she is my mom so I am biased. 

Yeah, the netflix meme is meant to be funny and lighthearted, but I have seen loads of posts from people saying things like "now that we all so much free time...." and talking about the house projects they are getting done, the tv shows they are binge-watching, the crafting they are getting to do.  Which is fine!  But when someone points out that no, we all don't have free time, well, they are called out as bitter complainers.   I think it's just annoying in general when people have a certain type of experience and expect that everyone else has the same, kwim?  

As for your mom... I would expect if my mom were still alive she would be dealing with this like any of the other difficulties she experienced in her long life. Born in 1916, she lived through the flu pandemic (though she didn't really experience it at that age), Great Depression, WWII, fears of nuclear war in the 60s (which I remember as well)... she'd deal with it.  That is not meant to minimize your mom's attitude because I'm sure others her age are not rolling with the punches so well.  

I haven't experienced as much badness as my mother did, but I've still had more than my kids have.  When the next crisis hits, I would expect I'll be more chill about it, and all the younger people who are experiencing this as their first big crisis will no doubt do better as well.  

(When I say "more chill" I don't mean not caring, or not doing whatever I can to assist (as in, staying home right now). I mean, not getting as upset or feeling like it's the end of the world, because I've been through stuff before.) 

Edited March 27, 2020 by marbel

[Paige]

I'm having a hard time convincing my parents not to visit me as planned for Easter. They'd be traveling 500 miles and are both high risk. They're actually mad that I think they should put it off. 

In my town I had to go somewhere today and was surprised to see roads as busy as ever and parking lots full. Our hospital is already running out of masks and other PPE. ☹️

[ScoutTN]

I went to the grocery today at morning drive time and in my neighborhood passed not one car, but many walkers, runners, strollers, none close together. On a minor secondary road, a handful of cars. On a major secondary road, some cars for sure, but I'd say about 1/10  of the normal.  Aldi was moderately busy, but not crazy, and well stocked with most things including all paper products. The only businesses I passed which were open were Walmart, a couple of fast food places, an international market (grocery), two gas stations and the post office. So seven out of 58. I counted. Nothing open that does not fit our city's list. 

The playgrounds are empty, but the large city and state parks near me have walkers and hikers aplenty, not walking together unless obviously a family unit. 

All our friends from church, our neighborhood, and activties are obeying the rules, though some neighborhood kids (with whom I do not allow ds to play for other reasons) are not. 

So my lower middle class part of Music City, is following the directives pretty well. 

[QueenCat]

18 hours ago, Paige said:

I'm having a hard time convincing my parents not to visit me as planned for Easter. They'd be traveling 500 miles and are both high risk. They're actually mad that I think they should put it off. 

In my town I had to go somewhere today and was surprised to see roads as busy as ever and parking lots full. Our hospital is already running out of masks and other PPE. ☹️

 

As hard as it will be, it shouldn't be about convincing. You have to tell them that you are not having guests & they cannot come to your house. I know, easier said than done...

[gardenmom5]

8 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

 

As hard as it will be, it shouldn't be about convincing. You have to tell them that you are not having guests & they cannot come to your house. I know, easier said than done...

@Paige

this.   no suggestions, no wishy-washy trying to be polite.  bluntly tell them - don't. come. end of discussion.

Edited March 28, 2020 by gardenmom5

[Paige]

20 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

@Paige

this.   no suggestions, no wishy-washy trying to be polite.  bluntly tell them - don't. come. end of discussion.

I have a week or two for them to make the decision on their own before I would need to be blunt. I really don't want them to come because my dad has not been social distancing like he should. Everything but essential stores/restaurants are shut down by the state, but he goes to as many of those as he can a day! I have asthma triggered by viruses so I feel I could get really sick even though I'm younger.

BUT- he's going to all the places and has a high risk heart condition and coming home to my mom who is also high risk! I'm really worried about them and wouldn't want our last phone call to be hurtful or for one of them to end up in the hospital, alone, with hurt feelings. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Gardenmom, did you see last night on the news that your city now has a place on the city app to report large gatherings of people?  Their purpose for this is to keep people from calling 911 for things like that. 

[DesertBlossom]

We were pretty desperate to get out yesterday so we drove 45 minutes to go play in a river. All public access areas were closed. We were 20 minutes outside city limits. I was kinda pissed, TBH.