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Quill

DD coming home from France Wed; help me w/strategies for containment

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I’m relieved she has decided to come home but it is super stressful and overwhelming to her all the stuff she has to organize in a very short time. It is also sad in that she is totally crushed at the way her amazing experience is ending. 

Half the night I was awake, cogitating through what we do from the moment we collect her at the airport. Here are some idea; help me flesh out others.

1. I can have either a Lysol spray or wipes in the trunk of my car to wipe or spray down her luggage and backpack at the airport, before she enters the car. I also thought it may be true that the airport itself has wipes available for this purpose at baggage claim. 

2. I have cloth face masks (4 of them) I could wear and could give her to wear in the car going home. Dont know if that will help anything but I have them so I thought might as well. 

3. I have nitrile gloves I could wear for collection from the airport. Or I could just use hand sanitizer after collecting her luggage. 

4. Once home, I thought I could have her leave her shoes in the garage and take her luggage directly to her room (she would normally put things on our kitchen bench but I think its best to not do this). Once in her room, change her clothes into fresh non-Europe clothes. I would like for her to take a shower but it may be too Draconian to suggest this. She will no doubt be extremely exhausted and emotional from how this is all unfolding. 

5. She has a bathroom connected to her bedroom, so she can pretty much hang out in her bedroom suite. I can bring her up food and beverages, but I’m not sure exactly how this part is going to go. I also don’t know exactly where she is AFA acceptance of extreme measures. I haven’t yet suggested her bf should stay away for two weeks, but I do think that. If she were still in France, she wouldn’t see him in person anyway. 

6. I can most likely sit tight for two (more) weeks here if I am the family member interacting with her. Dh will not stay put for two weeks unless he gets sick; realistically, he just is not going to do that. He’s going to jobs in construction; the only jobs he’s not doing are those where a homeowner was asking for a repair and has now cancelled. He’s a “rebel”, not a rule-follower and is 100% going to think my containment goals are ridiculously stringent. 

So. With those parameters given, what do you think? Is there something I’m not thinking of? I do need to examine our on-hand medical supplies; should have done that already but I haven’t. We had a bought of flu in December and I’m not sure what medicines may be low or empty. I was the only one in my family who did not get (very) sick with the flu; I’m the only one with a flu shot. BTW, dh thinks he already had C19 at that time, in December. I disagree with his belief; I think it is something he tells himself to reduce his anxiety that he could get pretty sick. 

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47 minutes ago, Quill said:

I’m relieved she has decided to come home but it is super stressful and overwhelming to her all the stuff she has to organize in a very short time. It is also sad in that she is totally crushed at the way her amazing experience is ending. 

Half the night I was awake, cogitating through what we do from the moment we collect her at the airport. Here are some idea; help me flesh out others.

1. I can have either a Lysol spray or wipes in the trunk of my car to wipe or spray down her luggage and backpack at the airport, before she enters the car. I also thought it may be true that the airport itself has wipes available for this purpose at baggage claim. 

 

Sounds good.  I suggest big lawn and leaf bags to put things in, and to cover stuff with, including your daughter from shoulders down for the car ride. Yes it sounds “draconian”, but if she’s a walking fomite it could be a huge help. 

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2. I have cloth face masks (4 of them) I could wear and could give her to wear in the car going home. Dont know if that will help anything but I have them so I thought might as well. 

 

Sounds good. I would not thrown them out at end but rather bag them and consider some way to disinfect them in case needed again. 

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3. I have nitrile gloves I could wear for collection from the airport. Or I could just use hand sanitizer after collecting her luggage. 

 

Either. 

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4. Once home, I thought I could have her leave her shoes in the garage

 

I think a plastic bag for everything she’s wearing. Shoes in separate plastic bag. Till they can be laundered or whatever can be done for shoes.

Give her privacy for complete stripping, and a robe or something similar to put on.

Next step a thorough shower. Or if she’s too tired to stand in shower a bath.  

(Suggest she try to sleep on plane if she can so that she’ll have energy to decontaminate once home.)

and a plastic bag ready to receive the robe (or other garage to bathroom transition clothes)  before stepping into shower

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and take her luggage directly to her room (she would normally put things on our kitchen bench but I think its best to not do this). Once in her room, change her clothes into fresh non-Europe clothes. I would like for her to take a shower but it may be too Draconian to suggest this. She will no doubt be extremely exhausted and emotional from how this is all unfolding. 

 

I’d suggest leaving luggage in garage until you figure out how to deal with it.

use non Europe clothes as soon as she finishes shower. 

Then she can eat, sleep, whatever. 

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5. She has a bathroom connected to her bedroom, so she can pretty much hang out in her bedroom suite. I can bring her up food and beverages, but I’m not sure exactly how this part is going to go.

 

Yes. Good. That’s a lucky arrangement to have connected bath.  

Have her open windows to ventilate often. 

Bring her what she needs.

Best to leave it outside of door, or else you yourself would need to decontaminate after each delivery.

in Thinking it through,  assume she actually has CV — asymptomatic case. 

 

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I also don’t know exactly where she is AFA acceptance of extreme measures. I haven’t yet suggested her bf should stay away for two weeks, but I do think that. If she were still in France, she wouldn’t see him in person anyway. 

 

It doesn’t matter where she is.   

Enforce strict two week quarantine rules. 

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6. I can most likely sit tight for two (more) weeks here if I am the family member interacting with her. Dh will not stay put for two weeks unless he gets sick; realistically, he just is not going to do that. He’s going to jobs in construction; the only jobs he’s not doing are those where a homeowner was asking for a repair and has now cancelled. He’s a “rebel”, not a rule-follower and is 100% going to think my containment goals are ridiculously stringent. 

 

If you are person interacting and if you use rigorous not lax quarantine precautions then he should be fine to go out, IMO. 

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So. With those parameters given, what do you think? Is there something I’m not thinking of?

 

Keep very rigorous in what you do. Assume she has asymptomatic case and is contagious as you figure out how to handle things for the two weeks.

It will be really weird.

But better than you, your husband and any other child at home getting sick if she really does turn out to develop symptoms before the two weeks are done.  

 

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I do need to examine our on-hand medical supplies; should have done that already but I haven’t. We had a bought of flu in December and I’m not sure what medicines may be low or empty. I was the only one in my family who did not get (very) sick with the flu; I’m the only one with a flu shot. BTW, dh thinks he already had C19 at that time, in December. I disagree with his belief; I think it is something he tells himself to reduce his anxiety that he could get pretty sick. 

 

Edited by Pen
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Gloves is better than hand sanitizer, for grabbing luggage, but she will probably find it weird if you have gloves to meet her. Are you not going to hug her when you see her? Figure that out now. If you are, keep face from touching her, and shower and change when you get home. (for the record, I'd probably be unable to not hug)

I'd put the luggage in a bag if you can, just so you don't have to keep touching it. I'd be less worried about her clothes touching the car seat unless anyone else is going to sit in it in the next 24 hours. I doesn't live long on porus surfaces. 

She needs to shower when she gets home. 

You need to disinfect car door handles, seatbelt buckles, steering wheel, etc before using the car again. (lives longer on hard surfaces)

And you need to explain to her that this isn't so much because of her being in France as it is because of her being in an airport and on a plane. And honestly? If things are still going the way they were this weekend with hours long lines of people crammed together, I might tell her not to come depending on her living situation in France. I hate saying that, but she'd be WAY more likely to be exposed standing shoulder to shoulder with hundreds of people for hours on end like happened over the weekend than she is following proper procedures in France. 

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Adding to what the others have said. You could use disposable plates, cups, silverware for her. I would do the 2 weeks confinement like the experts are suggesting. No visits from boyfriend. It lives up to 12 hours on hard surfaces and less on fabric. Leave her things in the garage for at least that long.

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Are you considered high risk? If you are, I wouldn't have her come to your house but would have her hang with a friend, send her to a hotel, whatever. If you are not high risk, then I would have her uber/taxi home, go in through a basement or side door to her own space, and she can skype and stay in there with a toaster oven and mini frig for 2 weeks. But really, maybe it would be less stressful to put her up in an extended stay hotel for 2 weeks and be done with it? She'd have a kitchenette, wifi, and you wouldn't be at risk. 

I don't know, I love my kid but I have asthma. I'd put the kid up at a hotel.

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12 minutes ago, ashfern said:

It lives up to 12 hours on hard surfaces and less on fabric.

Ooo that's useful! I hadn't heard that and we wondered if my stash of stuff from the library was "safe" or not.

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I know that you can't control what your husband does, but I think ethically he should tell everyone that he will come into contact with that his daughter has been in France and is self-quarantining at home, though she has no symptoms. And let them decide if they feel comfortable with him being near them or not. 

And doubly so if the client is elderly. There is no way for him to know if someone has underlying health issues, so he needs to give them the option to opt out of being around him. 

About your daughter -- I would insist that she change her clothes before entering the house and take a shower. We have established that rule for our DD18 daily, and she just works at Chik-fil-A. International travel ups the game by a lot, I would say.

Then she should stay in her room for two weeks, with you delivering food to her doorway without going in. I'm sorry to say that, but I think it is the right thing to do. @lewelma is having her son self-quarantine, I believe.

You can also check the CDC guidelines for travelers coming from France. I have read that travelers are not being advised by officials on the planes or in the airports the way that they should, so you can't rely on others telling your daughter what to do. Follow the written government advice.

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Gloves is better than hand sanitizer, for grabbing luggage, but she will probably find it weird if you have gloves to meet her. Are you not going to hug her when you see her? Figure that out now. If you are, keep face from touching her, and shower and change when you get home. (for the record, I'd probably be unable to not hug)

I'd put the luggage in a bag if you can, just so you don't have to keep touching it. I'd be less worried about her clothes touching the car seat unless anyone else is going to sit in it in the next 24 hours. I doesn't live long on porus surfaces. 

She needs to shower when she gets home. 

You need to disinfect car door handles, seatbelt buckles, steering wheel, etc before using the car again. (lives longer on hard surfaces)

And you need to explain to her that this isn't so much because of her being in France as it is because of her being in an airport and on a plane. And honestly? If things are still going the way they were this weekend with hours long lines of people crammed together, I might tell her not to come depending on her living situation in France. I hate saying that, but she'd be WAY more likely to be exposed standing shoulder to shoulder with hundreds of people for hours on end like happened over the weekend than she is following proper procedures in France. 

That was why she didn’t come home earlier, but with Macron’s tighter restrictions going into effect today, she had the dilemma of transportation within France being potentially halted, which would make her literally stuck two hours away from Paris. The town she was in is very rural and doesn’t even have a train; she has to go to Reims to get a train to Paris and she can only get to Reims by private car - that option may evaporate if her couple of driving friends/professors are prohibited from driving or in quarantine. 

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13 minutes ago, Quill said:

That was why she didn’t come home earlier, but with Macron’s tighter restrictions going into effect today, she had the dilemma of transportation within France being potentially halted, which would make her literally stuck two hours away from Paris. The town she was in is very rural and doesn’t even have a train; she has to go to Reims to get a train to Paris and she can only get to Reims by private car - that option may evaporate if her couple of driving friends/professors are prohibited from driving or in quarantine. 

 

It’s a huge amount of travel and exposures. Quarantine must be done with great seriousness.

I agree with

47 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I know that you can't control what your husband does, but I think ethically he should tell everyone that he will come into contact with that his daughter has been in France and is self-quarantining at home, though she has no symptoms. And let them decide if they feel comfortable with him being near them or not. 

 

And doubly so if the client is elderly. There is no way for him to know if someone has underlying health issues, so he needs to give them the option to opt out of being around him. 

 

This also.

47 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

About your daughter -- I would insist that she change her clothes before entering the house and take a shower. We have established that rule for our DD18 daily, and she just works at Chik-fil-A. International travel ups the game by a lot, I would say.

 

Yes. 

47 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

Then she should stay in her room for two weeks, with you delivering food to her doorway without going in. I'm sorry to say that, but I think it is the right thing to do. @lewelma is having her son self-quarantine, I believe.

 

 

 

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So much better to get to end of two weeks and find she apparently didn’t have it—unless totally asymptomatic case, than to get to day 12 and have her developing symptoms and look back and wish you had been far more strict in what you did. 

 

Edited by Pen
Asymptomatic correction of autocorrect
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1 hour ago, Quill said:

That was why she didn’t come home earlier, but with Macron’s tighter restrictions going into effect today, she had the dilemma of transportation within France being potentially halted, which would make her literally stuck two hours away from Paris. The town she was in is very rural and doesn’t even have a train; she has to go to Reims to get a train to Paris and she can only get to Reims by private car - that option may evaporate if her couple of driving friends/professors are prohibited from driving or in quarantine. 

If she's in a low risk population and out in the country, maybe she'd be better off staying put? Just saying. Air on the plane is recirculated. She may be less likely to get sick if she stays put.

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38 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

If she's in a low risk population and out in the country, maybe she'd be better off staying put? Just saying. Air on the plane is recirculated. She may be less likely to get sick if she stays put.

They use filters that actually stop the spread.  THe air on the airplanes- the ones that are flying from France to US- is cleaner than the air in stores, airports, restaurants, your house, etc/    The danger of airplanes is the other people on the plane-  so bringing gloves, etc on you with the plane is the best way and CDC is recommending sitting in a window seat too.

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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

If she's in a low risk population and out in the country, maybe she'd be better off staying put? Just saying. Air on the plane is recirculated. She may be less likely to get sick if she stays put.

Well, she’s not staying put. She’s already got a ticket and is making her way to Paris. I completely understand the logic of what you’re saying because it’s the same logic we have been following for the past several days, but the threat of being forced to shelter in place and therefore be actually stuck in a tiny French village with virtually no friends or family...is not okay with me or her or anyone. So she’s making her way here. I know it’s a risk but it’s the risk we’re accepting in a not-risk-free set of choices. 

 

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I'll tell you what I did every time I worked with people in isolation all day when I was in nursing.

Put a blanket over her car seat.  I'd put her luggage into black garbage bags and then in the trunk. I'd have her put a mask on or maybe even a scarf if you're concerned about her.

When she gets out of the car have her put her shoes into a black bag too.  Switch her to either flip flops or other shoes that you're okay with either washing or throwing out to walk through the house.  Clothes go into another black garbage bag.  All bags go to laundry room to be handled by someone wearing gloves.  Everything gets either washed in HOT water and DRIED or it gets quarantined for a month to be hand washed later.

As she gets in the shower, go out to the car with gloves.  Fold up the blanket, dirty side in, to be laundered later using gloves. Lysol anything she touched - including pulling out the seat belt and spraying that, also spraying the latch and the button on the seatbelt, the arm rests, the car door handle.

New, non-airplane or France clothes after the shower until the laundry is done.

She needs to self-quarantine for 14 days, no boyfriend visits until then.

 

Keep in mind that if you have lymph issues your immune system isn't normal.  Be careful but not freaked out.  Lots of fluid and rest.  Use Trump's suggestions to get your DH to make the rule that she needs to stay home, in her room, without visitors for two weeks.  Ask him to be the bad guy.

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I would suggest that you allow her privacy in the garage to change out of all her clothes and shoes, dump them all into a plastic bag, seal it and leave it in a corner there for a month or so. Then, let her change in to a robe and get into a shower right away in her bedroom and scrub herself extra well with soap and warm water. Do not bring any of her luggage into the house for now. If you can seal them all in a huge plastic lawn bag, do so and leave them in the garage for now. The germ will not survive 2 months in the garage is my guess. 

Other things: do not hug her (because this is a pandemic and she will understand because she is an adult), isolate her (no allowing her to come out), don't wash any of her dishes or utensils (could have germs, use disposable for every meal), take trash from her room straight outside, no visitors, give her a couple of electronic devices (iPad, laptop etc) and hopefully she can sleep and watch tv and chat with her friends through the 2 weeks. Also use lysol and spray all over the passenger area of your car where she sat and leave it to dry out naturally. For good measure, spray again after a day.

Good luck.

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In car, she sits in the rear-most passenger's side seat, while you drive.

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