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Quill

On the fence about kids socializing right now

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Explain to your daughter she can wash her hands forever and a day, but if she is sitting within or standing within 6ft of anyone contagious (and they do NOT need to have any symptoms to be contagious) while at the function, or possibly even walking through the air that someone contagious coughed in up to several hours ago, she'd be exposed. And then she'd expose her family when she comes back. That is outright selfish, and not okay. Yes, it is a sacrifice  to stay home. Sometimes we have to make sacrifices for the greater good. 

Meanwhile, my YA insisted on going to buy a pair of shoes today. I hate him being in the stores, but hopefull a shoe store won't be crowded. And his shoes literally are falling apart - as in held together by tape, lol. And his other shoes are his "good" shoes, and with volunteering to care for injured birds 3 days a week he needs a pair of not "good" shoes to wear. So I get it. (and the volunteer job is outside, and easy to keep proper distance from others, etc and the birds do need some people who can care for them). But man, I'm not happy about it and will order him into the shower when he gets home. Ugh. 

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Well, to update my previous post, I decided no on the families I was on the fence about.  One allowed the older child to have 4 friends over inside all day.  Plus now that I am seeing all the data about being contagious without symptoms, I think are just going to stay alone.  I told the kids they couldn't see their grandma if they were going to see their friends, and they all get it.  And I'm really annoyed that my son's troop leader just sent out a note saying we are still on for indoor group rock climbing next weekend.  How is that a critical activity?

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Explain to your daughter she can wash her hands forever and a day, but if she is sitting within or standing within 6ft of anyone contagious (and they do NOT need to have any symptoms to be contagious) while at the function, or possibly even walking through the air that someone contagious coughed in up to several hours ago, she'd be exposed. And then she'd expose her family when she comes back. That is outright selfish, and not okay. Yes, it is a sacrifice  to stay home. Sometimes we have to make sacrifices for the greater good. 

<snip>

Agreed!  🙂 She came to that conclusion earlier today. It's all good now.  

Edited by marbel
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We’re allowing our kids to socialize on a small scale and not in public. It’s not like this thing is here for a week. We’re talking the next year of our lives (at least). We can’t just lock ourselves away. Our focus right now is harping on them to form excellent habits both in and outside of our home.  Beyond that, this feels like uncharted territory. 

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20 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm trying to figure out things like orthodontist and therapist appointments.  


YEP. DD has her next ortho visit on 3.30 and I will only allow her to go if she comes back from today’s excursion with a friend and is symptom free until then. We have no more outings (save groceries or gas) in our future. DH also knows that I expect him to shower before bed and wash before dinner every night that he’s home.

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27 minutes ago, sassenach said:

We’re allowing our kids to socialize on a small scale and not in public. It’s not like this thing is here for a week. We’re talking the next year of our lives (at least). We can’t just lock ourselves away. Our focus right now is harping on them to form excellent habits both in and outside of our home.  Beyond that, this feels like uncharted territory. 


It won’t take a year if people buckle up now to the extent they are able.

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7 hours ago, Quill said:

@marbel I feel for you and your dd. I’m finding it difficult with my YAs. My college son is doing something social and unnecessary right now, although I am glad he altered plans from the inter-state travel he had previously planned. I told him to maintain scrupulous hygiene and he promised he would. But really, I would rather just order him to remain in his apartment and go nowhere. 

ETA: I feel it is only right that I correct this. I got an update from him and he did not go do the alternative social thing. He is staying in his apartment. He believes he was exposed to someone who had it and he is staying in for 14 days. 

Sympathy still for those with YA who are not, though. 

Mine is 18.  There is nothing I can do when he goes out like he did today.  He is 18 and invincible and thinks it’s nbd.  I can’t do anything with that thought process.  Couple that with schools staying open and everyone going to work as usual and well , it is what it is" 

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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:


It won’t take a year if people buckle up now to the extent they are able.

How do you figure? Containment is not possible and a vaccine is at least a year off. 
 

Understand, I am PRO shutting schools down right now and everything else, mostly to allow testing capabilities to catch up, but I have no illusion that this thing is going away. 

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29 minutes ago, sassenach said:

We’re allowing our kids to socialize on a small scale and not in public. It’s not like this thing is here for a week. We’re talking the next year of our lives (at least). We can’t just lock ourselves away. Our focus right now is harping on them to form excellent habits both in and outside of our home.  Beyond that, this feels like uncharted territory. 

 

Yes, but I think the next couple of weeks are critical for seeing how all this is going to shake out. Actually, things change every day. So we are on a day-to-day basis here. I have no choice about going to work tomorrow, but dh and I are going to look at the books tomorrow and see if we can readjust the budget a bit for me to take some time off. I work in a small office but have coworkers taking a less conscientious approach regarding social distancing and air travel. 

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3 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Mine is 18.  There is nothing I can do when he goes out like he did today.  He is 18 and invincible and thinks it’s nbd.  I can’t do anything with that thought process.  Couple that with schools staying open and everyone going to work as usual and well , it is what it is" 

 

My YA finally has seen the light after a sit down and realization that her sibling is a high-risk person. As I keep saying, I’m pretty sure if I can hold the line through this week, other folks here will stop calling me crazy. 

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23 hours ago, Happymomof1 said:

I can do this for 2 weeks, but it will be REALLY REALLY hard for both me and my daughter who are extroverts and whose love language is physical touch whose outlets are choir and musical theater.  Like we are never home normally...   But if I look realistically, this may go on for  6 months... So maybe I should start another thread what makes life worth living...  I mean great we self-isolate from each other and binge watch...  We will be stopped from doing the things we love to do...  Don't hug each other.  Keep your distance...  If I look into the future, I have trouble breathing. 

 

Sounds like you are creative types who could use this time to maybe pen a new MT youth production.

Someone’s got to save us from endless reruns of The Little Mermaid and Beauty & the Beast. 

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2 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Yes, but I think the next couple of weeks are critical for seeing how all this is going to shake out. Actually, things change every day. So we are on a day-to-day basis here. I have no choice about going to work tomorrow, but dh and I are going to look at the books tomorrow and see if we can readjust the budget a bit for me to take some time off. I work in a small office but have coworkers taking a less conscientious approach regarding social distancing and air travel. 

Yep, I get it. Pretty much our entire lives are shut down right now. I don't disagree at all.

But I'm still letting my kids hang out with their best friends (at their home or ours). I'm not choosing total isolation yet. 

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22 hours ago, Quill said:

Yes. I’m not asking so I can lay judgment on anyone. I’m asking because I’m an anxious person under the best of circumstances and I don’t endure unknowns super well, especially when it could be life or death for someone. 

This whole situation is so weird and science-fiction-novel-worthy. I have an ominous sense of foreboding with the feeling that, any day now, we’re going to hear about a death that shocks us all into this new reality we’re living. A little like hearing that Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson were positive...I feel like it certainly seems possible that sooner or later, the news will be the death of someone we couldn’t have imagined, or possibly someone you (general you) personally know - your uncle, your brother-in-law, your dad. It’s like, when you’re looking at the maps and charts, it’s easy to just think, well, those are numbers, but - maybe it’s just my personal weirdness and sensitivity, but - every number is somebody

I’m sure people’s personalities strongly influence how they feel about this strange new reality we all have to cope with. I guess that’s why some people buy an ass-load of frozen pizzas and toilet paper - it’s how they cope with their anxiety, how they stave off some of the feelings of helplessness. I think, for me, complying to the Nth degree with recommendations is my self-sooth. 

 

I think we are a lot alike - control the controllable parts because it addresses the sense of responsibility to do *something*. 

I have also been thinking this morning - not in a morose way, but a realistic one - that people we know personally are going to die from this. Praying that our hearts will be prepared to face that. 

Sorry for the somber note, I just believe it’s the truth. Hope to be laughed at over it in a month. 

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53 minutes ago, sassenach said:

How do you figure? Containment is not possible and a vaccine is at least a year off. 
 

Understand, I am PRO shutting schools down right now and everything else, mostly to allow testing capabilities to catch up, but I have no illusion that this thing is going away. 


it will take a year for a vaccine. It doesn’t have to take a year to prevent mass infection. Life in China is slowly returning to normal. In the last week, my students have been to parks and beaches. There is still no in-person congregating but they can be outside. That is significant progress given their urban density. We can achieve similar results with similarly strict/drastic/disciplined personal behavior.

Edited by Sneezyone
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On 3/14/2020 at 5:15 PM, happysmileylady said:

There's nothing in this CDC doc

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/workplace-school-and-home-guidance.pdf

about zero contact.  I haven't seen any recommendations that suggest that everyone should completely isolate themselves from every and all contact with the outside world.

If you feel like your family is at risk, absolutely, isolate yourselves if you feel it's necessary.

But everything I have seen recommends minimizing contact.  We are minimizing contact.  But for us that doesn't mean 100% isolation.  And that's not against any recommendations I have seen.  

^^this^^

We are practicing social distancing but not total isolation, Dh and ds both work anyway so total isolation isn't possible. The CDC is recommending no gatherings of over 50 people for the next 8 weeks. My one at home is 22 so none of the homeschool activity questions apply to us. Tonight he went to his bi-weekly D&D game held in a private home. One of their group has an immune compromised family member so he participated through facetime. Ds' girlfriend and one other friend are the only ones who regularly come over and they both have been washing their hands when they get here. 

We've severely limited our contact and canceled most planned activities. I had a 2 night, 3 day girlfriend getaway planned with 3 other friends and yesterday we canceled it. Fortunately Airbnb is giving full refunds but we were prepared to lose the money if they didn't. 

Bottom line is we're limiting trips out and social contact but we're not holing up at home and not letting anyone come in.

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8 hours ago, sassenach said:

How do you figure? Containment is not possible and a vaccine is at least a year off. 
 

Understand, I am PRO shutting schools down right now and everything else, mostly to allow testing capabilities to catch up, but I have no illusion that this thing is going away. 

Surely schools are all closed by now????

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We're in Seattle & would not let our 10 year old go play outside with his neighborhood friends today - for a number of reasons, but mostly because the more social distancing happens *now* , the better chance we have for flattening the curve & I have a really high sense of duty about communal well being.

Since people without symptoms can be highly contagious, I'm looking at each possible interaction as if one party were a known carrier and the other had an immunocompromised love one at home & asking myself if risking that hypothetical loved one's life is worth it in this context.  And the answer is usually 'no'. 

DH has done a couple of late night grocery runs for things we can't get through a delivery service & earlier on to stock up on my meds.  We've done some take-out orders from restaurants, and we went to the megillah reading at our synagogue on Purim last week(where careful distancing measures were in place)... and I've done some food/supply deliveries to people living outside.

We're not doing more shopping in the foreseeable future and we're (with great sadness) not going to services at our synagogue, and we're absolutely not socializing in person.

I really believe it is time, and past time, to be doing everything in out power to flatten the curve, to not be part of spreading this, to prevent the collapse of our hospitals, to save the lives of our vulnerable neighbors.  Yes, I miss my friends and activities, but G-d willing they will still be there when this is over, and by missing out now I make that more likely.

 

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My thoughts on this keep changing. Upthread I said that my teens were at a friend's house, but they were at a friend's house in the only state that has no cases reported yet. Large events with lots of people? No way. One or two friends over?  Possibly. Especially if they all play outside. If we had elderly grandparents who we were likely to visit, I'd do more restricting. As it is, we can avoid visiting with compromised people. 

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China is reawakening. So says CNN. I’m seeing lots of kids with new hair cuts (that they hate) and they are finally describing fun outings to local parks and mountain hikes. They are so happy! I hope Americans are able to cope as well as they have. https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-2-03-15-20-intl-hnk/h_00633a0135cea337eda02ce7e6c854e3?utm_source=CNN+Five+Things&utm_campaign=2d2025c19d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_03_10_12_55_COPY_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6da287d761-2d2025c19d-86606809

Edited by Sneezyone
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Just now, Sneezyone said:

China is reawakening. So says CNN. I’m seeing lots of kids with new hair cuts (that they hate) and they are finally describing fun outings to local parks and mountain hikes. They are so happy! I hope Americans are able to cope as well as they have. https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-2-03-15-20-intl-hnk/h_00633a0135cea337eda02ce7e6c854e3?utm_source=CNN+Five+Things&utm_campaign=2d2025c19d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_03_10_12_55_COPY_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6da287d761-2d2025c19d-86606809

 

Didn't someone upthread say that people in rural China were now getting this without anyone taking note? I don't know that I trust Chinese numbers :-/. 

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7 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

Didn't someone upthread say that people in rural China were now getting this without anyone taking note? I don't know that I trust Chinese numbers :-/. 


I haven’t seen that to be so, either in news reports or heard it from my students in rural areas.

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15 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

China is reawakening. So says CNN. I’m seeing lots of kids with new hair cuts (that they hate) and they are finally describing fun outings to local parks and mountain hikes. They are so happy! I hope Americans are able to cope as well as they have. https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-2-03-15-20-intl-hnk/h_00633a0135cea337eda02ce7e6c854e3?utm_source=CNN+Five+Things&utm_campaign=2d2025c19d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_03_10_12_55_COPY_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6da287d761-2d2025c19d-86606809

 

It will be interesting to see what happens there now.  Will there be another outbreak because everyone is around each other again?  I mean nothing has changed.  Meaning there is no vaccine or treatment.  So why wouldn't it just happen again?  

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Just now, mommyoffive said:

 

It will be interesting to see what happens there now.  Will there be another outbreak because everyone is around each other again?  I mean nothing has changed.  Meaning there is no vaccine or treatment.  So why wouldn't it just happen again?  

The same reason it doesn't normally happen with the flu or with colds -- there's already some total and partial immunity in people, so it doesn't spread like wildfire in the same way. After all, we don't have treatment for colds, but they aren't a ridiculous disaster normally. 

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9 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


I haven’t seen that to be so, either in news reports or heard it from my students in rural areas.

Good to know. I think it was in the looong thread, not this one, and I don't know if it's just a rumor. But someone did say so. 

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Just now, square_25 said:

The same reason it doesn't normally happen with the flu or with colds -- there's already some total and partial immunity in people, so it doesn't spread like wildfire in the same way. After all, we don't have treatment for colds, but they aren't a ridiculous disaster normally. 

 

Maybe.  But with what only 80,000 people in China who have contracted this, there are still a lot of people who haven't had it. 

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5 hours ago, mom@shiloh said:

My thoughts on this keep changing. Upthread I said that my teens were at a friend's house, but they were at a friend's house in the only state that has no cases reported yet. Large events with lots of people? No way. One or two friends over?  Possibly. Especially if they all play outside. If we had elderly grandparents who we were likely to visit, I'd do more restricting. As it is, we can avoid visiting with compromised people. 

The thing is that just because you don't have reported cases, doesn't mean you don't have cases. It might just mean your state isn't testing much. You almost certainly have cases. 

This is actually the best time to do social distancing, because you aren't in the uncontrollable increase phase yet. That means that it would take less to really flatten the curve. But of course, people won't actually do it until the government sounds the alarm... 

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2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

 

Maybe.  But with what only 80,000 people in China who have contracted this, there are still a lot of people who haven't had it. 

I'm not sure I believe that number, anyway ;-). First of all, I don't think they are being honest with their numbers. Secondly, I bet there were vastly more asymptomatic cases. 

But I assume only a few places were on lockdown anyway, right? 

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26 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I'm not sure I believe that number, anyway ;-). First of all, I don't think they are being honest with their numbers. Secondly, I bet there were vastly more asymptomatic cases. 

But I assume only a few places were on lockdown anyway, right? 


There were movement restrictions of varying kinds across China. All schools are still closed.

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I keep hearing people say they aren't going to avoid get togethers because they have to work anyway, or DH has to, so they are already exposed. That TOTALLY misses the point! If  you or someone in your family is working out in the world, that makes your whole family MORE LIKELY to be a source of contagion for others! All the MORE reason to stay home when you can! 

Even if you go to a friend's house who has no one who is at high risk what about the people they then see at the grocery store, or the people those people see?  (and hello, people not in the high risk category are now falling seriously ill, as in on ventilators ill, so it isn't that no one in the low risk group gets very ill anyway)

 

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I'm not having problems with my CHILDREN cancelling playdates, but I am having trouble with my husband doing so.  He says he doesn't see the point in not going to a board game night with a few friends when he's still working anyway.  On the one hand, there are no (confirmed) cases in our area or for several hours around us, and the folks I know in health care aren't seeing an increase in respiratory things that make them alarmed.  But that's the perfect time for social distancing.  

But....he's 43.  And if this is going to go on for months, mental health is important too.  

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My kids are having an outdoor hangout right now with one boy, who is a very extroverted "only child."  Both families have no contact with high risk people and both moms understand what's going on.  We discussed social distancing and wearing gloves.

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I'm letting dd hang out with one friend in the neighborhood. They've been together a lot for weeks and the friend is moving soon, so I'm risking it. DD keeps asking about sleepovers with other friends and I keep saying no.

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