On the fence about kids socializing right now

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

AAAAAAH!!!! Why did they not tell you??? 

I just...I don't know. I walked out, and was standing in the driveway, with her and the other neighbor, while the kids were on hoverboards and such and talking about it and she first said that her sschool wasn't closing, then mentioned that oh, and she's in the ER a lot - mostly doing chest xrays of people with respiratory symptoms! Between that and my daughter pulling me aside to say that she saw one of the kids sniffling, I was out of there. Everyone came in and washed up immediately. (and I'd ASKED if anyone had any illness/sniffles/etc first!) Now, the sniffling could be allergies - the pollen is crazy right now, particularly that time of evening. But that doesn't excuse her KNOWING she's around people with respiratory illness all day and then coming out to socialize and not warning people. I'm sure she just didn't think of it that way, but ugh. 

But, while I was out there the other neighbor said her daughter, who is an ICU nurse, had a patient they wanted tested for COVID 19, had all the criteria, but the CDC said no because the person hadn't traveled out of the country. Even though we have known cases of it in Central Florida. Unreal. 

[marbel]

Edit; for those who read it and remember what it was about: she had already come to the conclusion that going was a bad idea, just had not revealed that to me/dad. All is well. 🙂  Boyfriend encouraged that decision which brings him up a notch in my view.  

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by marbel

[alisoncooks]

So...re: sniffles. Are people concerned that sniffles = coronavirus? All of the side-by-side comparison charts I've seen (covid/cold/flu/allergies) say that coronavirus doesn't present with sniffles/runny nose/sputum? Is this wrong? (I legit want to know if I'm misinformed.)

(Or are people *in general* avoiding all those with any signs of illness? Not judging, just trying to categorize things in my head.)

[CTVKath]

I never in my wildest imaginations ever imagined what's happening now. Our county has the highest number of positives in the state; there are positives in our wider homeschool community; and I'm starting to hear so-and-so's husband is in the hospital and tested positive. So I'm starting to know names of people who are positive. My nephew is in our county firefighter school and one of his teachers has tested positive.

We are not meeting up with friends. All of our activities have been canceled for this coming week and most have been canceled through the end of March. My elderly parents and my husband's elderly parents are within 20 minutes of us and we've got to be careful of them. We have plenty to do at home. Our house is on almost 2 acres so we have the luxury of plenty of yard for walking and playing. There's no need for us to leave therefor we won't. My husband is in sales and travels for his job so he'll have to keep traveling and that's ok. We will just do what we can.

[Guest]

@marbel I feel for you and your dd. I’m finding it difficult with my YAs. My college son is doing something social and unnecessary right now, although I am glad he altered plans from the inter-state travel he had previously planned. I told him to maintain scrupulous hygiene and he promised he would. But really, I would rather just order him to remain in his apartment and go nowhere. 

ETA: I feel it is only right that I correct this. I got an update from him and he did not go do the alternative social thing. He is staying in his apartment. He believes he was exposed to someone who had it and he is staying in for 14 days. 

Sympathy still for those with YA who are not, though. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Quill

[Kassia]

25 minutes ago, Quill said:

@marbel I feel for you and your dd. I’m finding it difficult with my YAs. My college son is doing something social and unnecessary right now, although I am glad he altered plans from the inter-state travel he had previously planned. I told him to maintain scrupulous hygiene and he promised he would. But really, I would rather just order him to remain in his apartment and go nowhere. 

 

I am struggling with this too.  Two of my adult sons are very social active extroverts who are only cutting back on things because they are forced to by all the shutdowns.  But otherwise they are pretty much going on with their normal lives as far as going to the gym, playing sports with friends, shopping, etc.  I would rather them stay in their apartments to protect themselves and others.  

 

ETA - they both have excellent hygiene but I still think they should be more careful for their sake and others.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Kassia

[maize]

58 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

So...re: sniffles. Are people concerned that sniffles = coronavirus? All of the side-by-side comparison charts I've seen (covid/cold/flu/allergies) say that coronavirus doesn't present with sniffles/runny nose/sputum? Is this wrong? (I legit want to know if I'm misinformed.)

(Or are people *in general* avoiding all those with any signs of illness? Not judging, just trying to categorize things in my head.)

From WebMD:

The most detailed breakdown of symptoms of the disease comes from a recent World Health Organization analysis of more than 55,000 confirmed cases in China. Here are the most common symptoms and the percentage of people who had them:

Fever: 88%

Dry cough: 68%

Fatigue: 38%

Coughing up sputum, or thick phlegm, from the lungs: 33%

Shortness of breath: 19%

Bone or joint pain: 15%

Sore throat: 14%

Headache: 14%

Chills: 11%

Nausea or vomiting: 5%

Stuffy nose: 5%

Diarrhea: 4%

Coughing up blood: 1%

Swollen eyes: 1%

[maize]

I'm thinking avoiding runny noses is a good idea, even if it isn't a common symptom of covid-19 it is looking like children can be infected without many symptoms of the virus--but a kid who hads a runny nose from something else (regular cold?) could more easily spread covid-19 if they also happen to be infected with that.

[Lecka]

For a data point:  we have no cases within about 250 miles, but the counties around here are closing schools (6 counties now).  
 

We let our 14-year-old son invite 4 boys for a sleepover this week.

Two parents have said no.

One parent has said maybe but it seems like probably not.

One has said yes.  
 

We did not think about it very hard, it seems like we are out-of-step though and we probably won’t do anymore.

This son is connected with friends online so it seems like they will not really be isolated.  I am sure that is a factor.  

We didn’t go to church this morning with concerns about spreading possible germs to high-risk church members, but I thought this seemed okay.  

[Katy]

4 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

So...re: sniffles. Are people concerned that sniffles = coronavirus? All of the side-by-side comparison charts I've seen (covid/cold/flu/allergies) say that coronavirus doesn't present with sniffles/runny nose/sputum? Is this wrong? (I legit want to know if I'm misinformed.)

(Or are people *in general* avoiding all those with any signs of illness? Not judging, just trying to categorize things in my head.)

 

If you read the case reports of people who were positive but had only minor symptoms they OFTEN had a runny or stuffy nose and a sore throat.  Like that man in France who gave it to 4 people at work last month. And now with multiple studies showing the less symptoms the higher the viral load, yes, even sniffles may be a sign you have it and are contagious.  We don't have enough tests right now to test everyone, so it's important to just stay home as often as possible.  It will probably be 8-12 weeks at this point.

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

So...re: sniffles. Are people concerned that sniffles = coronavirus? All of the side-by-side comparison charts I've seen (covid/cold/flu/allergies) say that coronavirus doesn't present with sniffles/runny nose/sputum? Is this wrong? (I legit want to know if I'm misinformed.)

(Or are people *in general* avoiding all those with any signs of illness? Not judging, just trying to categorize things in my head.)

A doctor being interviewed on NPR clarified that it CAN present as sniffles, kids CAN get it, etc. 

 

[ktgrok]

Explain to your daughter she can wash her hands forever and a day, but if she is sitting within or standing within 6ft of anyone contagious (and they do NOT need to have any symptoms to be contagious) while at the function, or possibly even walking through the air that someone contagious coughed in up to several hours ago, she'd be exposed. And then she'd expose her family when she comes back. That is outright selfish, and not okay. Yes, it is a sacrifice  to stay home. Sometimes we have to make sacrifices for the greater good. 

Meanwhile, my YA insisted on going to buy a pair of shoes today. I hate him being in the stores, but hopefull a shoe store won't be crowded. And his shoes literally are falling apart - as in held together by tape, lol. And his other shoes are his "good" shoes, and with volunteering to care for injured birds 3 days a week he needs a pair of not "good" shoes to wear. So I get it. (and the volunteer job is outside, and easy to keep proper distance from others, etc and the birds do need some people who can care for them). But man, I'm not happy about it and will order him into the shower when he gets home. Ugh. 

[Syllieann]

Well, to update my previous post, I decided no on the families I was on the fence about.  One allowed the older child to have 4 friends over inside all day.  Plus now that I am seeing all the data about being contagious without symptoms, I think are just going to stay alone.  I told the kids they couldn't see their grandma if they were going to see their friends, and they all get it.  And I'm really annoyed that my son's troop leader just sent out a note saying we are still on for indoor group rock climbing next weekend.  How is that a critical activity?

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Explain to your daughter she can wash her hands forever and a day, but if she is sitting within or standing within 6ft of anyone contagious (and they do NOT need to have any symptoms to be contagious) while at the function, or possibly even walking through the air that someone contagious coughed in up to several hours ago, she'd be exposed. And then she'd expose her family when she comes back. That is outright selfish, and not okay. Yes, it is a sacrifice  to stay home. Sometimes we have to make sacrifices for the greater good. 

<snip>

Agreed!  🙂 She came to that conclusion earlier today. It's all good now.  

Edited March 15, 2020 by marbel

[sassenach]

We’re allowing our kids to socialize on a small scale and not in public. It’s not like this thing is here for a week. We’re talking the next year of our lives (at least). We can’t just lock ourselves away. Our focus right now is harping on them to form excellent habits both in and outside of our home.  Beyond that, this feels like uncharted territory. 

[Terabith]

I'm trying to figure out things like orthodontist and therapist appointments.  

[Sneezyone]

20 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm trying to figure out things like orthodontist and therapist appointments.  

YEP. DD has her next ortho visit on 3.30 and I will only allow her to go if she comes back from today’s excursion with a friend and is symptom free until then. We have no more outings (save groceries or gas) in our future. DH also knows that I expect him to shower before bed and wash before dinner every night that he’s home.

[Sneezyone]

27 minutes ago, sassenach said:

We’re allowing our kids to socialize on a small scale and not in public. It’s not like this thing is here for a week. We’re talking the next year of our lives (at least). We can’t just lock ourselves away. Our focus right now is harping on them to form excellent habits both in and outside of our home.  Beyond that, this feels like uncharted territory. 

It won’t take a year if people buckle up now to the extent they are able.

[sassenach]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

It won’t take a year if people buckle up now to the extent they are able.

How do you figure? Containment is not possible and a vaccine is at least a year off. 
 

Understand, I am PRO shutting schools down right now and everything else, mostly to allow testing capabilities to catch up, but I have no illusion that this thing is going away. 

[sassenach]

2 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Yes, but I think the next couple of weeks are critical for seeing how all this is going to shake out. Actually, things change every day. So we are on a day-to-day basis here. I have no choice about going to work tomorrow, but dh and I are going to look at the books tomorrow and see if we can readjust the budget a bit for me to take some time off. I work in a small office but have coworkers taking a less conscientious approach regarding social distancing and air travel. 

Yep, I get it. Pretty much our entire lives are shut down right now. I don't disagree at all.

But I'm still letting my kids hang out with their best friends (at their home or ours). I'm not choosing total isolation yet. 

[Sneezyone]

53 minutes ago, sassenach said:

How do you figure? Containment is not possible and a vaccine is at least a year off. 
 

Understand, I am PRO shutting schools down right now and everything else, mostly to allow testing capabilities to catch up, but I have no illusion that this thing is going away. 

it will take a year for a vaccine. It doesn’t have to take a year to prevent mass infection. Life in China is slowly returning to normal. In the last week, my students have been to parks and beaches. There is still no in-person congregating but they can be outside. That is significant progress given their urban density. We can achieve similar results with similarly strict/drastic/disciplined personal behavior.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

dp

Edited March 15, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Lady Florida.]

On 3/14/2020 at 5:15 PM, happysmileylady said:

There's nothing in this CDC doc

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/workplace-school-and-home-guidance.pdf

about zero contact.  I haven't seen any recommendations that suggest that everyone should completely isolate themselves from every and all contact with the outside world.

If you feel like your family is at risk, absolutely, isolate yourselves if you feel it's necessary.

But everything I have seen recommends minimizing contact.  We are minimizing contact.  But for us that doesn't mean 100% isolation.  And that's not against any recommendations I have seen.  

^^this^^

We are practicing social distancing but not total isolation, Dh and ds both work anyway so total isolation isn't possible. The CDC is recommending no gatherings of over 50 people for the next 8 weeks. My one at home is 22 so none of the homeschool activity questions apply to us. Tonight he went to his bi-weekly D&D game held in a private home. One of their group has an immune compromised family member so he participated through facetime. Ds' girlfriend and one other friend are the only ones who regularly come over and they both have been washing their hands when they get here. 

We've severely limited our contact and canceled most planned activities. I had a 2 night, 3 day girlfriend getaway planned with 3 other friends and yesterday we canceled it. Fortunately Airbnb is giving full refunds but we were prepared to lose the money if they didn't. 

Bottom line is we're limiting trips out and social contact but we're not holing up at home and not letting anyone come in.

[mom@shiloh]

My thoughts on this keep changing. Upthread I said that my teens were at a friend's house, but they were at a friend's house in the only state that has no cases reported yet. Large events with lots of people? No way. One or two friends over?  Possibly. Especially if they all play outside. If we had elderly grandparents who we were likely to visit, I'd do more restricting. As it is, we can avoid visiting with compromised people. 

[Sneezyone]

China is reawakening. So says CNN. I’m seeing lots of kids with new hair cuts (that they hate) and they are finally describing fun outings to local parks and mountain hikes. They are so happy! I hope Americans are able to cope as well as they have. https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-2-03-15-20-intl-hnk/h_00633a0135cea337eda02ce7e6c854e3?utm_source=CNN+Five+Things&utm_campaign=2d2025c19d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_03_10_12_55_COPY_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6da287d761-2d2025c19d-86606809

Edited March 16, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

Didn't someone upthread say that people in rural China were now getting this without anyone taking note? I don't know that I trust Chinese numbers :-/. 

I haven’t seen that to be so, either in news reports or heard it from my students in rural areas.

[mommyoffive]

15 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

China is reawakening. So says CNN. I’m seeing lots of kids with new hair cuts (that they hate) and they are finally describing fun outings to local parks and mountain hikes. They are so happy! I hope Americans are able to cope as well as they have. https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-2-03-15-20-intl-hnk/h_00633a0135cea337eda02ce7e6c854e3?utm_source=CNN+Five+Things&utm_campaign=2d2025c19d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_03_10_12_55_COPY_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6da287d761-2d2025c19d-86606809

 

It will be interesting to see what happens there now.  Will there be another outbreak because everyone is around each other again?  I mean nothing has changed.  Meaning there is no vaccine or treatment.  So why wouldn't it just happen again?  

[mommyoffive]

Just now, square_25 said:

The same reason it doesn't normally happen with the flu or with colds -- there's already some total and partial immunity in people, so it doesn't spread like wildfire in the same way. After all, we don't have treatment for colds, but they aren't a ridiculous disaster normally. 

 

Maybe.  But with what only 80,000 people in China who have contracted this, there are still a lot of people who haven't had it. 

[Sneezyone]

26 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I'm not sure I believe that number, anyway ;-). First of all, I don't think they are being honest with their numbers. Secondly, I bet there were vastly more asymptomatic cases. 

But I assume only a few places were on lockdown anyway, right? 

There were movement restrictions of varying kinds across China. All schools are still closed.

[ktgrok]

I keep hearing people say they aren't going to avoid get togethers because they have to work anyway, or DH has to, so they are already exposed. That TOTALLY misses the point! If  you or someone in your family is working out in the world, that makes your whole family MORE LIKELY to be a source of contagion for others! All the MORE reason to stay home when you can! 

Even if you go to a friend's house who has no one who is at high risk what about the people they then see at the grocery store, or the people those people see?  (and hello, people not in the high risk category are now falling seriously ill, as in on ventilators ill, so it isn't that no one in the low risk group gets very ill anyway)

 

[bibiche]

[Terabith]

I'm not having problems with my CHILDREN cancelling playdates, but I am having trouble with my husband doing so.  He says he doesn't see the point in not going to a board game night with a few friends when he's still working anyway.  On the one hand, there are no (confirmed) cases in our area or for several hours around us, and the folks I know in health care aren't seeing an increase in respiratory things that make them alarmed.  But that's the perfect time for social distancing.  

But....he's 43.  And if this is going to go on for months, mental health is important too.  

[SKL]

My kids are having an outdoor hangout right now with one boy, who is a very extroverted "only child."  Both families have no contact with high risk people and both moms understand what's going on.  We discussed social distancing and wearing gloves.

[mom2scouts]

I'm letting dd hang out with one friend in the neighborhood. They've been together a lot for weeks and the friend is moving soon, so I'm risking it. DD keeps asking about sleepovers with other friends and I keep saying no.