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Long term changes speculation- Coronavirus


Katy
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Princeton is encouraging all students to stay home and all classes will be online after spring break.

I'm wondering how this will impact colleges long term.  If schools find what many have found - that kids perform even better working online from home than they do on campus, where there are endless distractions, will they encourage this in the future?  If physical space isn't the major capacity issue for admissions, will they admit more kids?  Will poor quality schools close and high quality ones expand dramatically?

How else might this virus change things long term?

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I have a hunch (tee hee) that there are other reasons more schools don’t have more online offerings.  I mean, my local university (and cc) has some online classes, but only a fraction for a degree.  They have all the needed data on whatever their online outcomes are, and that hasn’t pushed them to increase availability.

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29 minutes ago, Katy said:

 If schools find what many have found - that kids perform even better working online from home than they do on campus, where there are endless distractions, will they encourage this in the future? 

I would like to see who found that. Our data in our department show the opposite. We have just finished an ed research study about it.

We find show that students in the online sections underperform, on average, compared to students in live sections. I have data for several years and several thousand students that show this discrepancy in the exam averages on every single test (identical exams between in seat and online) and in the final grades. The difference in average final grade is up to half a letter grade.

Students self report that the find it much harder to remain focused while working on their computer and find it easier to be captive audience in a  classroom. the major distraction are the other things you can do online. Taking online classes requires much more discipline.

Edited by regentrude
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I would not prefer all/the majority of college to be done online, because I think a big, huge element of completing a college degree is human interaction IRL. (I think there is a place and a purpose for online degrees but for young people I far prefer physical attendance at college.) 

In an unrelated idea, I think it would be great for hand-shaking to go out of style. 

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I would not have been willing to pay or my children to get their degrees online. The face to face interaction with experts, the mentoring, problem solving sessions with classmates, laboratory work, design teams, research and teaching opportunities, involvement in student organizations - that's what makes the "college experience". Even the best designed online classes cannot provide an equivalent.

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8 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I would like to see who found that. Our data in our department show the opposite. We have just finished an ed research study about it.

We find show that students in the online sections underperform, on average, compared to students in live sections. I have data for several years and several thousand students that show this discrepancy in the exam averages on every single test (identical exams between in seat and online) and in the final grades. The difference in average final grade is up to half a letter grade.

Students self report that the find it much harder to remain focused while working on their computer and find it easier to be captive audience in a  classroom. the major distraction are the other things you can do online. Taking online classes requires much more discipline.

 

You know what?  My information is really old, from when I went back to school as an adult and online classes were much more new.  As in I remember not taking an online exam until after I watched Obama & Hillary debate.  Your research sounds more recent and more comprehensive.

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

I would not prefer all/the majority of college to be done online, because I think a big, huge element of completing a college degree is human interaction IRL. (I think there is a place and a purpose for online degrees but for young people I far prefer physical attendance at college.) 

In an unrelated idea, I think it would be great for hand-shaking to go out of style. 

 

I am so with you on both the IRL interaction and getting rid of handshaking.

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I agree with the I hope they don't go all online classes. My two college students have had a mix of online and IRL classes at our local community college. They both felt like the online classes were full of busy work and no real discussion of topics. Every week it was "find three online articles that relate to the chapter in the book and comment on 3  other students' posts?" They have both MUCH preferred and felt like they learned more in the IRL classes.

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1 minute ago, saraha said:

I agree with the I hope they don't go all online classes. My two college students have had a mix of online and IRL classes at our local community college. They both felt like the online classes were full of busy work and no real discussion of topics. Every week it was "find three online articles that relate to the chapter in the book and comment on 3  other students' posts?" They have both MUCH preferred and felt like they learned more in the IRL classes.

that's probably more a reflection on the instructor.  however, unless they're doing an online conference platform - it's very hard to have an actual discussion.

my son has been doing online already with his MS.  they have all been lectures from the profs, and actual assignments.  

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 My husband is working from home for two weeks and his department head says that meetings are going to be videoconferences. Luckily our kids are teens and can keep quiet for more than an hour. Not everyone has a quiet area at home for classes or meetings by videoconferencing.

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I think some kids will do well online- and other's will do worse.

there are already options for kids to do all online.  and my dsil did his MBA all online - rarely met with his group in person.

 

eta: 1ds is working on a MS in engineering - his lectures are online.  He bought another laptop so he can go to the library, watch the lecture on one and type notes on the other.  that was his solution for the "distraction" quotient of being at home  (with dd's dogs.)

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6 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 My husband is working from home for two weeks and his department head says that meetings are going to be videoconferences. Luckily our kids are teens and can keep quiet for more than an hour. Not everyone has a quiet area at home for classes or meetings by videoconferencing.

and even when they do, if they forget to lock the door behind them  . . . . 

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Not everyone learns better or easier online. About half my kids would probably decide to withdrawal from classes bc they HATE online classes.

My studio arts major kid is really worried about this.  So far her college has NOT said students should expect to not to return after spring break. If they do, we are wondering how they plan to compensate students for the cost of dorms students can’t use.  And you can’t exactly work with sculpting class online. 

Edited by Murphy101
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I think my daughter would go into a depression if classes went to all online.  As it is she gets very antsy with three day weekends -- being at home with family is one thing, but being on a college campus and taking all online classes would be miserable. 

oh wait, they want kids to stay home? Yikes. 

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This is what my Chinese students have been dealing with for three lights. Some profs/teachers, particularly those in the arts, will work to make their online classes more fun and interactive (while requiring more reading after class). Others will flop. Spectacularly. There’s no telling. You cannot replicate studio time outside if a pottery studio but they may be able to facilitate smaller group sessions if 1-4 who are separated. 
 

I don’t think this will impact admissions long term but over the next 18 months, possibly.

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3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This is what my Chinese students have been dealing with for three lights. Some profs/teachers, particularly those in the arts, will work to make their online classes more fun and interactive (while requiring more reading after class). Others will flop. Spectacularly. There’s no telling. You cannot replicate studio time outside if a pottery studio but they may be able to facilitate smaller group sessions if 1-4 who are separated. 
 

I don’t think this will impact admissions long term but over the next 18 months, possibly.

I think this is in Korea too.  My friend's son is a professor, and they've been in lockdown for four weeks.

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Just now, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I am curious to see how it impacts long term working from home/telecommuting numbers. Dh and I have been discussing this. There's recently (as in the last few years) been a huge shift in his industry where people who were working from home were pulled back into the office and full time telecommuting seemed like it was having a significant decrease.

Obviously certain jobs its impossible for anyway for all sorts of reasons, as well as past a certain rung in management it becomes a lot harder too, as you need to actually be there, but I'm wondering if there will be a shift back to telecommuting for more than six months or whatever- if it might return as a longer term trend. 

I'm also curious about telecommuting numbers long term and whether it results in at least a bit of a bump.

Additionally, I am interested to see how it impacts the debate over healthcare and over paid leave. Like, might this result in better sick leave laws?

I'm dubious that there will be a long term impact to education moving online. Parts of education are moving online. That's an ongoing thing, but I think the (rightful) resistance to that will continue.

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The duration is the most concerning. Many people do not have the money to buy in bulk, or the facilities to store it if they did, and many  people lives in places that are comfortable when you aren’t in it 24/7. I say many, but I don’t think it would be inaccurate to say most people.  Aside from the logistics of a social distance economy, there’s the mental health factor to consider too.

Imma gonna start another thread.

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2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

The duration is the most concerning. Many people do not have the money to buy in bulk, or the facilities to store it if they did, and many  people lives in places that are comfortable when you aren’t in it 24/7. I say many, but I don’t think it would be inaccurate to say most people.  Aside from the logistics of a social distance economy, there’s the mental health factor to consider too.

Imma gonna start another thread.

 

You don't have to.  I'm interested in mental health implications too.  My mother would have gone into deep depression if stuck at home with us for months on end.

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3 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

You don't have to.  I'm interested in mental health implications too.  My mother would have gone into deep depression if stuck at home with us for months on end.

 Many of the students I see HAVE been depressed, especially the older students who crave more social interaction. Prior to the quarantine, most did not have the phone numbers of friends. Those kids who did have access to phones and social media have been better off. I have some preschool/kindy age students who have begun indoor gardens (garlic and carrots). Their parents are doing their best to buy and assemble new LEGO kits and board games. I, and my fellow teachers, are part of the daily entertainment package. Kids I used to see 1-2x a week are now on my schedule 3-4x/week...and these are the haves, not the have nots.

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I read somewhere that this is a seasonal virus likely to mostly go away when the weather gets warmer.  That might be why populous but warm countries like India hardly have any cases?  If that is the case, maybe relief is on the horizon?

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54 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I would not have been willing to pay or my children to get their degrees online. The face to face interaction with experts, the mentoring, problem solving sessions with classmates, laboratory work, design teams, research and teaching opportunities, involvement in student organizations - that's what makes the "college experience". Even the best designed online classes cannot provide an equivalent.

This is exactly what I think. My kids matured tremendously in the social and emotional realm once physically AT college. And the mentoring that was available to my daughter at her small LA-focused school was life-changing for her. 

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3 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Meanwhile you then have the person with plenty of paid leave stored up, but who will tromp in the office with the flu as a badge of "What A Hard Worker I Am". I am hoping this nips those people too and has companies be more forceful on "Go home, we aren't going to reward your irresponsibility.

I have said for years I loathe “Perfect Attendance.” All it really means is sick people dragging themselves to school/work/an activity so they can get their silly pin or whatever. 

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1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Geography/climatology experts. Can some one lay out the climate differences between say, Italy, Iran, Pakistan, and India? Because Italy still seems weird to me to be the rocketing rate at the moment- other than it's in the EU. Is it the border security? Italy has looser borders than Iran, Pakistan, and India? Is that a true statement at all? I know nothing about the borders of any of them. Guessing people aren't fleeing into Iran as a matter of course, but maybe so? This is a topic I have zero knowledge on but am very interested. 

I think they were watching Singapore and Thailand in terms of their cases since they're warm.

India is far too diverse a nation to say much - parts are jungle, parts are desert, parts are cold and mountainy. The borders of all three of the nations you name are heavily armed in many areas. Obviously Italy's borders are very open to the EU... less so to other places, but they have no land borders with anywhere else (except Switzerland), so you're talking about airport travel mostly. Italy has struggled to clamp down on this and to control movement. They said they were locking it down... but I've read they weren't super successful. It's a not very well run country. The EU is reasonably well administered, but individual nations vary a lot. Italy's government struggles with corruption. Iran is a nation that can potentially control it because they're authoritarian... but they've struggled because people don't trust the government (thus the people being idiots and licking things in Qom). Why is India's rate so low? No clue.

Climate **might** play a role. Once an outbreak has occurred, type of government, wealth, resources, etc. may play a role. However, in the end, I think you're basically just playing Pandemic at this point. Why is it cropping up in Iran and not Pakistan? Because you drew the card from the deck that said Tehran. That's it. Don't worry, there's more deck there. You'll eventually draw Karachi.

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My dd#1 thrived in LIVE online classes during high school. She's really thrived in a nerdy college environment where she can work with others - helping & receiving help from classmates. But, since she's familiar and comfortable with online classes, she's included at least one in every semester's schedule so far (including the upcoming fall's schedule that she just registered for). It allows her a bit of wiggle room in her schedule and if she manages her time, it allows her to take more credits. Two of them have had one live meeting a week & one is just a list of work and due dates. She interacts better, IMO, with a live component, but is mature enough now to handle both types.

The University that she turned down to go to her present one offers some classes exclusively online. The students often complain that they are paying to teach themselves. A good, in-person teacher trumps an online class, but a good online class trumps a horrid professor, IMO.

I hope it is just temporary. My DD won't want to come home. She'll stay at school if allowed. If not allowed, she'll hunker down with friends near school.

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32 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I am curious to see how it impacts long term working from home/telecommuting numbers. Dh and I have been discussing this. There's recently (as in the last few years) been a huge shift in his industry where people who were working from home were pulled back into the office and full time telecommuting seemed like it was having a significant decrease.

 


There were complaints about decreased in productivity. What employers could probably do is decrease the base pay and increase performance bonuses. It’s human nature to slack when working from home. My DS15 slack more for online classes then  in person classes and he is more industrious than me. My husband slacks too when working from home and he is generally a responsible person.

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15 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I don't think they know yet. They can speculate, but that's something that'll take a while to parse out. And that's the problem. Stuff just takes time to develop and for the data to come in. 

I still think the whole India and I'll add Pakistan to that list as well, not having numerous cases as really weird too. I'll put my tinfoil hat on, but that has me sniffing up some "conspiracy" branches. 

do they not have very many cases - or have they just not done very much testing?  that's a HUGE difference.

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2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:


There were complaints about decreased in productivity. What employers could probably do is decrease the base pay and increase performance bonuses. It’s human nature to slack when working from home. My DS15 slack more for online classes then  in person classes and he is more industrious than me. My husband slacks too when working from home and he is generally a responsible person.

I think this depends on the sort of job and the workplace and expectations. Dh's job has been telecommute for quite awhile and he's a manager. They don't see less productivity for the most part. It has improved overall. They have a lot of deadlines in his work, so I think the lack of many long term projects may be a part of this though.

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

 My husband is working from home for two weeks and his department head says that meetings are going to be videoconferences. Luckily our kids are teens and can keep quiet for more than an hour. Not everyone has a quiet area at home for classes or meetings by videoconferencing.

 

For example: Do you remember the newscast where the guy was being interviewed via videoconference and his toddler came in with a swagger followed by the baby in an exersaucer, then 20 seconds later by mom, sliding in, with her pants not all the way up like she had just run from the bathroom? Classic.  Update: video, if you haven't seen it. It's so relatable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh4f9AYRCZY

 

Edited by cintinative
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34 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Geography/climatology experts. Can some one lay out the climate differences between say, Italy, Iran, Pakistan, and India? Because Italy still seems weird to me to be the rocketing rate at the moment- other than it's in the EU. Is it the border security? Italy has looser borders than Iran, Pakistan, and India? Is that a true statement at all? I know nothing about the borders of any of them. Guessing people aren't fleeing into Iran as a matter of course, but maybe so? This is a topic I have zero knowledge on but am very interested. 

Iran, The Middle East, Singapore are all approximately as hot as parts of india is. So, I think that climate is not a factor.

 

ETA: now, this makes me wonder about African countries and will they be affected badly.

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46 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I don't think they know yet. They can speculate, but that's something that'll take a while to parse out. And that's the problem. Stuff just takes time to develop and for the data to come in. 

I still think the whole India and I'll add Pakistan to that list as well, not having numerous cases as really weird too. I'll put my tinfoil hat on, but that has me sniffing up some "conspiracy" branches. 

Meh - I just think they're not testing.  I have to believe it is rampant in India & probably Pakistan too and I would not be traveling to countries like that right now.  I think there are/have been many thousands of cases in the US not IDed.  

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11 minutes ago, Arcadia said:


It’s human nature to slack when working from home.

No, it's not.  It's a personality/character trait not everyone has.

Plenty of people who work from home struggle with opposite temptation-to work every spare minute they have because it's always there.  My husband has been a computer programmer and consultant working from home for the last 23 years. Some of it for other companies and the last 6 years, for his own business. He's far and away always the most productive and talented employee and has to put external limits on his working hours because he genuinely likes what he does and loses his sense of time working most of the time.  He also has to set limits for those times he doesn't enjoy the work, but there's that deadline looming,  customers to satisfy,  co-workers to collaborate with, and he just wants it done already so he can move on to the next thing, so he bangs away at it day and night.

That doesn't count people who are more naturally inclines to balance on task time with free time at home when no one is watching over them like they're children.

The difference is in people who seek out work and schooling from home and those who don't, which leads us right back to personality. People are easily confused by it because they don't know very many people who work and school that way by choice, so they assume it's the same for everyone doing it. If more people are being forced into it now and in the near future, the average person will personally know a broader range of home based employees and students and see that some do well in that environment and others don't.

Then there's the self-discipline factor.  A self-disciplined person completes tasks well in a timely way because they are able to deny their impulses themselves. When someone doesn't have self-discipline they need a mommy figure to encourage them to do well and discourage them from doing poorly.  It's a real eye opener for some people who think they're self-disciplined to leave an office or classroom environment for the freedom of doing it all at home and then they realize they had nowhere near the self-discipline they thought they had.

Granted, some jobs and educational situations are categorically a bad fit for distance learning and work, but that doesn't mean none are a good fit.  Some work as hybrids with part of the week/month on site and part at home.  We may just be on the verge of a large scale experiment to see which fall into each category.

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I always worked harder when I worked from home.  Partially to justify my time, I felt like I needed more to show for it, partially because the walk to get a drink or snack wasn't as long, partially because the lack of people stopping by to chat, no phone ringing all the time, etc. 

Only bad part of working at home was not being able to make copies.

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10 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

I agree--it's partly the job and partly the person...and this forced attempt may give us a lot of information about all of this.  I was just talking to someone today about a "mommy" environment at work and just listening to her description of the Nanny Employer curled my teeth.  That would drive me insane in 4 minutes flat.  I've always been much more like your dh...I have had to set a timer to STOP working (and then half the time I ignore the stupid timer..."just 15 more minutes..."  It's a blessing, and a curse.  :0)


Don’t think those nanny employers don’t try to nanny people who work at home too.  I know several people who work from home and the things they tell me about their bosses.  I’d have an extremely difficult time putting up with that inside my house.  For example, one does work similar to call center cubical environment but from home.  But her boss is no different than at the call center. She has to log every pee break, and sometimes even video monitoring. Not of her screen or her call, but literally watching her through the computer the company issued.  Oh heeeelllllls no. I wouldn’t like it at work but whatever.  But hell no in my house.  Another friend is paid a whopping 8.50 an hour for an online from home thing.  Paperwork data entry type stuff.  Nothing management. But working from home means her employer has no respect for work hours.  If she gets a text at 10pm about something he wants done by 9am - she got chewed up for not responding to his text. As far as she is concerned, if she is not on the clock, his questions can wait until she is bc he and coworkers are constantly working for free in her opinion by chatting about work off the clock.  I’m with her on that. 

Just saying working from home has plenty of drawbacks too.

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Yahoo and Cisco were famous for their work from home policies. Both companies are in my “backyard” and both downsized employees headcount and buildings.

My husband’s work is a mix of R&D and QC. His dept lab techs can still do testing at a slower pace since they can schedule such that it’s one lab tech in a big lab room at one time. My husband has to write work reports to justify his pay. So though he might slack a little at home, he has to do enough work to justify his base pay. 

My previous job was of a 24/7 nature and I could work anywhere even on a flight. I have a company issued laptop, quad band cellphone with international roaming, VPN and can claim for internet access. My performance bonus was often higher than my base pay. I was in operations management, so not a commission based job. 

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My DS is one who THRIVED in online classes, did ok at the computer college (small classes all under 20 students) and finds the large university classes to be absolutely soul sucking.  If he could have done everything online it would have been a dream come true.  He landed a professional job straight out of high school, but to advance he needs the college degree (the employer not DS is already counting down till DS finishes because they really want him in a higher position but corporate policy prevents them from doing so till he has that piece of paper).  So it's not even like he's benefiting from the social and/or work connections from being at school, he's already successfully established that.

I also was one who was far more productive at home than at work.  I asked about working from home when my oldest was born and it was against policy at the time so I quit. 2 months later they called me back and asked if I would consider working from home (my replacement has done such a horrible job they desperately needed my experience to get things straightened out).  I worked from home 2 years and went in about once a month for in person meetings and had phone conferences in between. I quit again when my 2nd was born and I didn't want to work anymore but it was the perfect arrangement for me before than.

DH had a full time work at home position and that was a disaster for him emotionally (although his productivity was through the roof).  He needs some people interaction.  But he also finds working in the office to be horribly distracting so the ideal for him is about 3 days home and 2 days in the office.  

But based on what I've seen and what DH has reported, there are an awful lot of less than productive employees out there.  It's amazing how many people you see playing games, on social media etc all day long at work.  I can't imagine how much less they would accomplish when there was no chance of someone walking in and saying "what are you working on?".  

I definitely think it's a combination of personality and character that makes one able to work home successfully or not.
 

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Aren't these students still living and eating together? How does not having class keep them from being together? I know some colleges are more commuter oriented, but not most! 

My college is still having classes but canceled events.

The bigger issue with my nursing school is that a bunch of clinicals have been canceled and 22 people have had their capstone canceled. That's a very, very big deal. I feel sad for those people. 

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1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

So did the CEO change his mind on the working from home then I guess? 

The CEO didn’t but the dept heads can call for meetings in office. The directive says to work from home wherever possible. It did not say that employees are forbidden to come to office. 

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4 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Not everyone learns better or easier online. About half my kids would probably decide to withdrawal from classes bc they HATE online classes.

My studio arts major kid is really worried about this.  So far her college has NOT said students should expect to not to return after spring break. If they do, we are wondering how they plan to compensate students for the cost of dorms students can’t use.  And you can’t exactly work with sculpting class online. 

So is mine. Her school is cancelling classes for the week after spring break, everything will be online. She is wondering what her printmaking teacher will have them do.  This is just after the school cancelled their short study abroad trips over spring break. In her case, student housing and associated services will remain open; classes just won't be held in the classrooms. (For now, anyway... who knows what's coming?)

Some degrees simply can't be done online.  I am thinking mostly of the arts (because that's where we are),  though I'm sure there are others. But, to many people, degrees in the arts are just unnecessary fluff anyway; I'm sure some would argue* that they are a waste of time and resources anyway and best gotten rid of anyway.

* I mean this in a general way, not talking about anyone here.

Edited by marbel
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3 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I have no idea for sure, but if IRAN of all places can get tests, India definitely can, as can Pakistan. You are talking about the two biggest outsourcing countries (for US tech work) on earth behind China. You want to outsource your IT operations, that's where you go. India, or Pakistan. So it's hardly like they are some backwoods type of places who wouldn't have access to things. They might have a lot of poverty, but they also have a ton of tech industry. 

I'm wondering if one factor is that India (at least) has all kinds of "viral fevers" people get, usually in the hot months, that are never specifically identified. It's not uncommon at all for someone to say someone is sick with a viral fever with it's accompanying symptoms. So this may just seem like not such a huge new kind of deal, just a particularly bad viral fever.

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2 hours ago, StellaM said:

Kids don't perform better in online courses though. The drop out rate is far higher.

I did my last degree online (it's the same degree as the one on campus, just different delivery) and the mature age students did well at it. There were almost no young kids who finished out the three years online.

I don't think anything will change. People will get sick, some people will die, then things will go on as 'normal'. The world does not respond to crises in long term ways.

among our trying different things with dudeling - was trying online.  he despises it.  he's fine with kahn academy for math, but it is very difficult to hold accountable how much he's done.

1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

More long term change speculation- 

Future Zombie series and movies will now feature people hoarding toilet paper in mass quantities and using the rolls as commodities when society collapses. "Next season on The Walking Dead- The fight over the toilet paper processing plant........" 

 

and bottled water.  (anyone figured out the deal with that one?)

57 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Aren't these students still living and eating together? How does not having class keep them from being together? I know some colleges are more commuter oriented, but not most! 

My college is still having classes but canceled events.

The bigger issue with my nursing school is that a bunch of clinicals have been canceled and 22 people have had their capstone canceled. That's a very, very big deal. I feel sad for those people. 

about half the undergrads at UW live on campus - so their dining halls have to be open too.  how far off campus other's live varies - some are right off campus (especially all the greek houses), but it's not school housing.

that's bad for them to have their capstones cancelled - are these students who were supposed to graduate in may/june?   are you in the seattle area - or elsewhere?

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6 hours ago, Katy said:

Princeton is encouraging all students to stay home and all classes will be online after spring break.

I'm wondering how this will impact colleges long term.  If schools find what many have found - that kids perform even better working online from home than they do on campus, where there are endless distractions, will they encourage this in the future?  If physical space isn't the major capacity issue for admissions, will they admit more kids?  Will poor quality schools close and high quality ones expand dramatically?

How else might this virus change things long term?

Tele medicine will become more of a thing.  Once people see how it works and how you don’t have to pick up doctors office bugs for some things they are going to move toward that.

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Is the difference in which countries have it not just testing, but tourism?  Italy is one of the most traveled places.  Iran may not be historically open, but I know more than one college friend from a family that moved to the United States from there in the late 70's/early 80's who only in the past year started visiting "Home" again.  I put home in quotes because everyone my age was born in the USA and had never been there at all, and the kids all live in major cities now (LA, NYC, London, Paris) and travel frequently.   I'm under the impression it's cultural.  These are the same people who've taught me that to them education is important because it's the only thing no one can ever steal, and that it's really best to diversify your investments in multiple countries, to have multiple passports, multiple homes in different regions of the world. That way if there is some sort of political uprising your family is protected.  Not that I've ever had the sort of money their families do, but that has been their strategy, at least according to my college friends.

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3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

that's bad for them to have their capstones cancelled - are these students who were supposed to graduate in may/june?   are you in the seattle area - or elsewhere?

Yes, capstones happen in the last semester. A few of the hospitals have closed to students, so it's not the school making that choice but the school and students are stuck dealing with the fallout. I would be devastated, honestly. These people have worked for years and you cannot graduate without those clinical hours.

The clinical hours that I am missing will be able to be made up, either with simulations or by adding the hours in later on. I'm only missing a total of 4 shifts, so it's not a huge deal.

ETA: I'm in SF

ETA 2: my university just announced that in-person classes are suspended until 4/5 at the earliest. 

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37 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I'd think India would have a ton more tourism and travel to and fro than Iran overall though, wouldn't it? 

I agree - it's a major tourist destination (especially during our winter) AND there are many many students and business people who travel in and out constantly.  It is possible that they are just not testing much, or that they have a different immunity profile, but I did read that COVID19 is a cold weather disease.

(I have friends living there who have not mentioned any Coronavirus concerns.  Not that that proves anything.)

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2 hours ago, sassenach said:

Aren't these students still living and eating together? How does not having class keep them from being together? I know some colleges are more commuter oriented, but not most! 

My college is still having classes but canceled events.

The bigger issue with my nursing school is that a bunch of clinicals have been canceled and 22 people have had their capstone canceled. That's a very, very big deal. I feel sad for those people. 

 

Yes.  I guess it maybe sorta saves the profs and admin contact, but it isn't going to do diddly for the students living in dorms and eating in the cafeteria.

41 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I blame the bottled water on people who are used to preparing for natural disasters. When anything threatening happens here, everyone goes and grabs pallets of bottled water, bleach and plywood. And propane. Throughout every hurricane I've ever dealt with it has never occurred to me to stock up on toilet paper. Maybe the water is just reflex buy? 

One pic on Twitter did make me laugh. It was a reporter at Costco in the parking lot and masses of people with carts full of toilet paper, water, dry good, you name it. Then this lone guy with a couple of huge boxes of Durex condoms and a giant tub of coconut oil in his cart rolls by.  😂 #Priorities. 

 

I laugh but I feel so wrong about it.😆😳

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