S/O language learning

[lulalu]

The thread on delaying math has a lot about language learning as well. It really has me wanting to hear experiences with learning languages. 

What have been your experiences with children learning language in contrast to adults? 

How do you make sure you don't forget the language? Does age play a role here? 

We are expats so I have seen a lot of children and adults work on learning language. I have noticed many kids forgetting a language learned while toddlers and preschoolers. I have also seen adults pick up language much faster than children. They can categorize it better has always been my thoughts. Where children need to really internalize the structure of language as a whole first. When I am working on learning I can ask specific questions on how to categorize new words or sentences. 

[Renai]

Your thought is correct: adults have a distinct advantage for language learning that children do not have. Adults already have formed at least one language, and have a grammar foundation. Learning another language is building upon that foundation. Children are still building a foundation, so may not necessarily make connections as quickly as adults. In Classical-ed speak, adults have more pegs to hang the new knowledge on. People often say that children learn faster, but the truth is, it is more the method of how children are learning vs adults, not the ability of learning language at X age.

[8filltheheart]

We lived in Brazil from the time our ds was 7 until he was 10.  All of his friends were Brazilian children.  We lived in a gated community where kids ran all over the neighborhood unsupervised and played from morning until dark.  The private schools there ran on an interesting schedule, 1/2 the kids attended from early in the morning until lunch and the other half attended from lunch until dinner.  So, no matter the time of day, 1/2 of his friends were outside playing.  He was completely fluent in Portuguese, even to the pt when he was sleep-walking (which he did quite frequently when he was little), he would talk in Portuguese (which we assume means he was dreaming in Portuguese.)

After we moved home, we tried to help him maintain it, but it was pretty much a lost cause.  He didn't care and access to Portuguese (at least back then) was not readily available.  He has completely lost it.  

Conversely, dh was surrounded by people at work who only spoke Portuguese.  There were a handful of execs that spoke English, but everything was conducted in Portuguese.  He didn't become fluent as fast as ds, but he can still hold conversations (vastly more limited than before, but using circumlocution, he can be understood).  

We have friends who have adopted older kids (between 5 to 7) and all of those kids lost their native language. (no attempt was made to help them maintain it.)

My 21 yr old dd is fluent in French.  Her Russian is not as strong.  She will tell me that if she doesn't constantly stay on top of her Russian, she starts to forget it.  She does not have the same problem with French.  She started learning French at a very simple level in 3rd grade.  I would say she really started learning it in 6th.  (I don't know any French, so she was learning it on her own.) In high school she reached the pt where she could multitask (building puzzles, cleaning, etc)  while watching movies and understand 90+% of what she was watching.  By her freshman yr in college, she could write essays as quickly in French as she could in English.   If she goes a semester without a French speaking class, she says she doesn't lose any ground.  Not the same with Russian (which she started in 9th and IIRC was at a B1+/B2- level at the end of 12th....can't remember 100%)  Her Russian requires diligent maintance.

[lulalu]

Thought some may enjoy listening to this podcast about language learning in homeschools. https://thehomeschoolsisters.com/2019/03/04/foreign-language/

[lulalu]

Sounds like a lot of self learners from the stories above. 

How much do you think desire is important to success? Or is the environment more important? 

For my son he os learning language because of the environment of the local language. This helps as he needs to learn it to play with other kids. But he doesn't want to watch shows, read books and other stuff in the local language. 

[maize]

4 hours ago, lulalu said:

Sounds like a lot of self learners from the stories above. 

How much do you think desire is important to success? Or is the environment more important? 

For my son he os learning language because of the environment of the local language. This helps as he needs to learn it to play with other kids. But he doesn't want to watch shows, read books and other stuff in the local language. 

Immersion alone will result in language learning for most kids, as long as the child is actively engaging with the language for a significant portion of each week.

Literacy in a language increases vocabulary and can be critical for retention should you move away. 

My parents used to pay us to read books in the local language--you might try external motivators if internal motivation is lacking.

[lulalu]

5 hours ago, maize said:

 

My parents used to pay us to read books in the local language--you might try external motivators if internal motivation is lacking.

I may try this and see how it goes. 

[wendyroo]

13 hours ago, lulalu said:

Sounds like a lot of self learners from the stories above. 

How much do you think desire is important to success? Or is the environment more important? 

For my son he os learning language because of the environment of the local language. This helps as he needs to learn it to play with other kids. But he doesn't want to watch shows, read books and other stuff in the local language. 

My children's immersion Spanish class assigns reading for each of them.  I require and oversee that reading (which the kids do only somewhat grudgingly), but I also make sure to incorporate plenty of Spanish read alouds into our days - both fiction and non-fiction.  While I think that actually reading books does have some advantages, I also think that listening to books read aloud has some advantages.