Do other students have so much trouble getting recommendation letters?

[Kassia]

I don't know if this belongs here or on the high school board...

Dd is a senior in high school.  She does DE full time and needed letters of recommendation for a scholarship and a summer research program.  She asked four professors to write the letters for her; they all think highly of her with two of them practically gushing over what a great student she is/was.  Out of the four professors, only one has written a letter and that was her weakest choice (she needed a science teacher, but this one didn't know her all that well other than she was at the top of her class and a good student).  The letters are due at the end of the week.  

Dd is very passive, introverted, has social anxiety, and easily intimidated.  She is in tears now because she doesn't want to contact the professors again to give them gentle reminders but is afraid that they will remember after the due date and ask her why she didn't say anything.  I feel so bad for her.  It was already very hard for her to meet with them to ask for the letters and now she's "in a pickle" (her words).  

Does this happen often or did she just have very bad luck?  

 

[teachermom2834]

My oldest ds had issues. He had an online teacher that was very happy to write one and she did write one but it was right down to the last minute. He did email her a reminder. I never really doubted she would do it but I am the type to worry until it is done and that one went right down to the deadline.

He also had one who agreed just not do it. Actually, I think she did do it. The common app that year had something different where the letter writer would click submit and think they were done but there was actually one more screen to click through to complete it and actually submit it. One writer was positive she completed it but when we showed her it was not completed she went back in and figured out what she had to do to finish it. However, a de teacher who we assume had the same issue was not willing to go back in and finish it. Ds tried to talk to her and she just said she didn't have time. 

LOR have been tough for my kids. They don't have that many to choose from to start with and then the common app was a pain that year for people to deal with I guess.

I dread it for next ds coming up.

Edited February 21, 2020 by teachermom2834

[Lori D.]

Please, please encourage her to contact the instructors again. In fact, you can show her this post response.

 I teach homeschool co-op classes, and a number of times I have agreed to write LoR -- very happy to do so. Most of the time I am able to do it right away, but sometimes, if I can't get to it for a week or so, I just plain forget because I have so much going on. And I have ALWAYS GREATLY appreciated the student emailing me again with a reminder.

Would an email reminder be easier for your DD? Then she doesn't have to screw up her courage to ask face to face. But getting a reminder would also very much help the instructor. Perhaps she could word it in such a way as to give the instructor an "out" if they've changed their mind or don't have time to do it, but to also let her know. That way, she won't feel like she's "pressuring" anyone. Example:

Dear ________,
Thank you again for kindly agreeing to write a letter of recommendation for me for the ________________ summer research program. The deadline for submitting the letter of recommendation is fast approaching -- in fact, it is the end of this week on ___(deadline date)____. If circumstances will prevent you from being able to write and submit a recommendation by that date, could you please let me know as soon as possible, so I can try and make other arrangements to fulfill this application requirement? My email address is _____________________. And if you are still able to write a recommendation, thank you so much! If you would be so kind as to send me a quick email to let me know once you have submitted the recommendation, I would be very grateful.

Thank you again for your time and efforts in assisting me in applying for this incredible summer opportunity!
Sincerely ______________

PS -- It also helps ME speed up the process of the actual writing if the student can link me to the application, or a description of the program and what they are looking for in the student -- then I can tailor my wording to match what they are looking for, and how the student fits their requirements. 😄 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Lori D.

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, teachermom2834 said:

 

I dread it for next ds coming up.

 

It is such a hassle and unfair that students are so dependent on others to get these opportunities.

 

9 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Please, please encourage her to contact the instructors again. In fact, you can show her this post response.

 I teach homeschool co-op classes, and a number of times I have agreed to write LoR -- very happy to do so. Most of the time I am able to do it right away, but sometimes, if I can't get to it for a week or so, I just plain forget because I have so much going on. And I have ALWAYS GREATLY appreciated the student emailing me again with a reminder.

Would an email reminder be easier for your DD? Then she doesn't have to screw up her courage to ask face to face. But getting a reminder would also very much help the instructor. Perhaps she could word it in such a way as to give the instructor an "out" if they've changed their mind or don't have time to do it, but to also let her know. That way, she won't feel like she's "pressuring" anyone. Example:

Dear ________,
Thank you again for kindly agreeing to write a letter of recommendation for me for the ________________ summer research program. The deadline for submitting the letter of recommendation is fast approaching -- in fact, it is the end of this week on ___(deadline date)____. If circumstances will prevent you from being able to write and submit a recommendation by that date, could you please let me know as soon as possible, so I can try and make other arrangements to fulfill this application requirement? My email address is _____________________. And if you are still able to write a recommendation, thank you so much! If you would be so kind as to send me a quick email to let me know once you have submitted the recommendation, I would be very grateful.

Thank you again for your time and efforts in assisting me in applying for this incredible summer opportunity!
Sincerely ______________

PS -- It also helps ME speed up the process of the actual writing if the student can link me to the application, or a description of the program and what they are looking for in the student -- then I can tailor my wording to match what they are looking for, and how the student fits their requirements. 😄 

 

Thank you, Lori!  She did send links for the information when she originally asked for the letters.  I told her to email the professors and ask them if they need more information to complete the letters, but she is uncomfortable with the whole situation at this point.  I will show her your template, but I think it is too direct for her.  She is so passive and worried about coming across as demanding, which makes this even harder for her.  

 

 

[daijobu]

You can tell your dd that I agree with @Lori.  In many areas of my life, I'm always grateful when I receive a reminder.  I don't know if I'm alone in this, but when I start teaching a student, I feel my attitude about them changes.  I'm suddenly on their team.  As such, their success reflects on me.  

Last year I submitted 3 LoRs for 3 students who wanted to attend Stanford Online High School.  All 3 were admitted.  I'm hugely proud of my students and I feel like their success is partly owed to me, both for the letter, and for the teaching I did to prepare them.  I tell this to other parents who are considering hiring me.  

If your dd doesn't like Lori's template, I can offer another more colloquial one that worked well for me.  I'll respond to my original email with the links and lead withthis bit:

"Bumping!  In case this slipped out of your inbox..."

I found that approach to be a friendly reminder without sounding too obnoxious.  It may come off as too familiar so use your discretion.  I just used this with a Harvard professor whom I emailed cold (no prior contact).  He didn't respond to my first cold email, but when I followed up with the "Bumping!" email he did respond graciously.  

[daijobu]

Also, I don't know if other letter writers feel the same way, but it really helps if I can get a bulleted list of items the student wants me to highlight.  Especially if a year or more has passed, I may be sketchy on the details.  Something like:

It would be great if you could include in your letter:

• My A+ on the final paper
• How much I contributed to class discussion
• My tutoring of students in your other class

Something like this makes my job a lot easier, but I'm not sure how other letter writers feel about this.  

Edited February 21, 2020 by daijobu

[8filltheheart]

This is not a homeschooling problem.  All students face the same sorts of problems.  My college kids have to send reminders to profs who agreed to write letters for them.  People are busy.  Your dd just needs to ask if they are still willing to do it b/c the due date is X.

[EKS]

Three of the four of my sons' recommenders have needed reminders.    

[Kassia]

3 minutes ago, EKS said:

Three of the four of my sons' recommenders have needed reminders.    

 

Ugh.  Do you know how he worded the reminders?

[Kassia]

20 minutes ago, daijobu said:

You can tell your dd that I agree with @Lori.  In many areas of my life, I'm always grateful when I receive a reminder.  I don't know if I'm alone in this, but when I start teaching a student, I feel my attitude about them changes.  I'm suddenly on their team.  As such, their success reflects on me.  

Last year I submitted 3 LoRs for 3 students who wanted to attend Stanford Online High School.  All 3 were admitted.  I'm hugely proud of my students and I feel like their success is partly owed to me, both for the letter, and for the teaching I did to prepare them.  I tell this to other parents who are considering hiring me.  

If your dd doesn't like Lori's template, I can offer another more colloquial one that worked well for me.  I'll respond to my original email with the links and lead withthis bit:

"Bumping!  In case this slipped out of your inbox..."

I found that approach to be a friendly reminder without sounding too obnoxious.  It may come off as too familiar so use your discretion.  I just used this with a Harvard professor whom I emailed cold (no prior contact).  He didn't respond to my first cold email, but when I followed up with the "Bumping!" email he did respond graciously.  

 

16 minutes ago, daijobu said:

Also, I don't know if other letter writers feel the same way, but it really helps if I can get a bulleted list of items the student wants me to highlight.  Especially if a year or more has passed, I may be sketchy on the details.  Something like:

It would be great if you could include in your letter:

• My A+ on the final paper
• How much I contributed to class discussion
• My tutoring of students in your other class

Something like this makes my job a lot easier, but I'm not sure how other letter writers feel about this.  

 

Thank you!  She is in one of their classes presently and the other two were very recent.  The only one who actually got it done was a professor she had a while back.  This is all so unexpected.  

[EKS]

6 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

Ugh.  Do you know how he worded the reminders?

I don't know exactly, but it was probably something like "I just wanted to make sure you are still able to write a recommendation for me and that you know that the deadline is on Friday, March 20 [or whatever].  Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.  Thanks so much for doing this for me--I really appreciate it!"

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

Would an email reminder be easier for your DD? Then she doesn't have to screw up her courage to ask face to face. But getting a reminder would also very much help the instructor. Perhaps she could word it in such a way as to give the instructor an "out" if they've changed their mind or don't have time to do it, but to also let her know. r in the student -- then I can tailor my wording to match what they are looking for, and how the student fits their requirements. 😄 

Yes, absolutely she should email them a reminder, they will think nothing of it! I disagree with providing an out for them; they've agreed to do it and it's super common to need to remind them. 

5 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Ugh.  Do you know how he worded the reminders?

We kept ours short and simple: Thanks again for agreeing to write my letter of recommendation! It is due this Friday, February 28, at *this link*.  Let me know if you have any problems submitting it. 

That's it. Under the sign-off, we would put more reminder info they could refer to as needed. 

Regards, katilac 

Katilac Surname, French 101,  2018 spring semester, section 6; French 102 2018 fall semester, section 10

[Frances]

I think this is a very common problem. Most profs I know would appreciate the reminder.

[regentrude]

How far in advance did she request the LORs? 

Professors are busy and have a lot of different things on their agenda. The student needs to send reminders. A few weeks before the deadline an email with current info attached; a week before the deadline a reminder of the deadline if the student can see the recommender has not yet submitted the letter.

"Dear Professor X, thank you for agreeing to write me a letter of recommendation for college applications. The deadline is on March 1. You should have received an email from the college inviting you to my application (or however the process works); please let me know if there has been a complication. Thank you so much for doing this, and have a nice day."

Sometimes, there was a complication in the submissions procedure and it has fallen through the cracks; sometimes the prof forgot. If they agreed to write the LOR, they actually intended to do it and will appreciate the reminder. A prof who doesn't want to write the letter will decline the request upfront.

Edited February 22, 2020 by regentrude

[Kassia]

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

How far in advance did she request the LORs? 

Professors are busy and have a lot of different things on their agenda. The student needs to send reminders. A few weeks before the deadline an email with current info attached; a week before the deadline a reminder of the deadline if the student can see the recommender has not yet submitted the letter.

"Dear Professor X, thank you for agreeing to write me a letter of recommendation for college applications. The deadline is on March 1. You should have received an email from the college inviting you to my application (or however the process works); please let me know if there has been a complication. Thank you so much for doing this, and have a nice day."

Sometimes, there was a complication in the submissions procedure and it has fallen through the cracks; sometimes the prof forgot. If they agreed to write the LOR, they actually intended to do it and will appreciate the reminder. A prof who doesn't want to write the letter will decline the request upfront.

 

For the summer program, she asked six months in advance.  For the scholarship, it was only 2 1/2 weeks (the application came out on a Friday and she asked the following Monday).  She just sent a reminder to one of the professors for the scholarship and is thinking about whether to email the other one or try to see him in his office on Monday.  I think she should email to give him more time (she needs it by Wednesday), but she's hesitant to do it because he's not good with email.  She has to turn in those letters with her scholarship application so they have to be given to her.  For the research program, they have to be submitted by email and only one has been done.  

Dd and I understand that professors are very busy.  One of her professors that she asked for the scholarship letter is actually dean of two regional campuses and has a demanding personal life (she's actually a good friend of mine and doing independent study with dd).  The other is a department head at the community college.  

[catz]

This is a super common problem.  My kid had to follow up with a couple of his references.  I remember needing to do it myself and feeling awkward about it.  But it needed t9 be done.  This type of follow  up is a good life skill and people are not forgetting to write the letters to be malicious.  They’re just busy and have a lot of moving balls.  A casual follow up is a good idea several weeks before the due date if it has been submitted.  
 

has she had treatment for anxiety?  That has been helpful for a couple people at this house.  I’m just thinking in terms of being successful at college next year and having the confidence to attend office hours, follow up and asking questions when needed, etc

[Kassia]

16 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

 

has she had treatment for anxiety?  That has been helpful for a couple people at this house.  I’m just thinking in terms of being successful at college next year and having the confidence to attend office hours, follow up and asking questions when needed, etc

 

She refuses treatment.  I have asked her multiple times and she won't do it (stubborn teen).  She does know we will get help for her if she ever wants it and is aware of mental health services at the college she will attend in the fall.  She's been doing DE for 4 years now and does pretty well interacting with professors.  It's hard for her and she obsesses about it and has to spend a lot of time preparing, but she does it.  

[Kassia]

UPDATE - she sent one reminder and already got a nice response.  The other professor is more intimidating to her (I don't know why) and she's obsessing about how to handle it.  DH and I keep telling her to send him an email but she's thinking of going to see him on Monday even though that would be more awkward than sending a message.

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Kassia said:

For the summer program, she asked six months in advance.  For the scholarship, it was only 2 1/2 weeks (the application came out on a Friday and she asked the following Monday).  She just sent a reminder to one of the professors for the scholarship and is thinking about whether to email the other one or try to see him in his office on Monday.  I think she should email to give him more time (she needs it by Wednesday), but she's hesitant to do it because he's not good with email.  She has to turn in those letters with her scholarship application so they have to be given to her.  For the research program, they have to be submitted by email and only one has been done.  

Dd and I understand that professors are very busy.  One of her professors that she asked for the scholarship letter is actually dean of two regional campuses and has a demanding personal life (she's actually a good friend of mine and doing independent study with dd).  The other is a department head at the community college.  

She should just email him. It's the weekend, so he may not see it, and she should plan to go in on Monday in person. But I would definitely email ahead.

For the research program, she definitely needs to remind them. 6 months is a long time. It's a nice courtesy to ask that far in advance to give enough time; however, most professors are actually going to wait writing until the reminder 🙂

[easypeasy]

Agreeing with everyone else. Super common issue. So common, in fact, that it seems professors wait until the reminder is sent before doing anything about it. 
 

My dd has, thankfully, one tried-and-true recommender. DS emails this person and they have the recommendation sent and a reply to dd within 12 hours. 

Every other LOR? Multiple reminders. Every time. Same for my son. And their LOR-writers LOVE each of them and know them well. And still... 

it's almost a part-time job just keeping track of the needed LORs and their deadlines! (As of keeping up with the student's own deadlines weren't enough!)

my kids keep it short and sweet. Similar to katilac's suggestion above. We always include the link (if applicable) or any other pertinent info so the writer doesn't have to go digging through their emails to find it.

best of luck to your dd!!

[catz]

I agree with sending a quick e-mail ASAP.  As a contract teacher myself, when someone tells me something I often say could you e-mail me a reminder because if you have that slapping you in the face every time you sit down at your e-mail, you are more likely to get it done.  That doesn't mean she can't follow up with him in person on Monday or later in the week either if she doesn't get confirmation.

[Kassia]

52 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

Agreeing with everyone else. Super common issue. So common, in fact, that it seems professors wait until the reminder is sent before doing anything about it. 
Every other LOR? Multiple reminders. Every time. Same for my son.

it's almost a part-time job just keeping track of the needed LORs and their deadlines! (As of keeping up with the student's own deadlines weren't enough!)

 

 

I really had no idea this was so common!  

 

6 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I agree with sending a quick e-mail ASAP.  

 

This is what DH and I keep telling her.  She's swamped with school and work right now and I feel bad about this extra stress on her.  I wish she'd just listen to us but I don't want to nag her and cause additional stress. When she asked in the first place, she never thought it would be an issue.  The professor did ask her to email the info to him, which she did right away.

 

[JennyD]

Completely agreeing with everyone else here -- this is super common and your DD should have zero hesitation about sending a friendly reminder.  

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

She should just email him. It's the weekend, so he may not see it, and she should plan to go in on Monday in person. But I would definitely email ahead.

For the research program, she definitely needs to remind them. 6 months is a long time. It's a nice courtesy to ask that far in advance to give enough time; however, most professors are actually going to wait writing until the reminder 🙂

 

I teach at a university and for years I used to write recommendation letters as soon as possible after they were requested, just to get them off my plate (and out of my inbox).  But there were so many times that I would write a letter, only to discover later that the student had changed his or her mind and wasn't interested in that job/fellowship/school after all.  So frustrating.  Now I wait until the week before and/or they send me a reminder.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by JennyD

[Kassia]

26 minutes ago, JennyD said:

 

 

I teach at a university and for years I used to write recommendation letters as soon as possible after they were requested, just to get them off my plate (and out of my inbox).  But there were so many times that I would write a letter, only to discover later that the student had changed his or her mind and wasn't interested in that job/fellowship/school after all.  So frustrating. 

 

 

 

That would be so frustrating!  

[GoodGrief]

It's a great lesson in communication and practice sending reminders to someone who is doing you a favor. Very common issue, for sure.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 2/21/2020 at 5:38 PM, Kassia said:

 

It is such a hassle and unfair that students are so dependent on others to get these opportunities.

 

 

Thank you, Lori!  She did send links for the information when she originally asked for the letters.  I told her to email the professors and ask them if they need more information to complete the letters, but she is uncomfortable with the whole situation at this point.  I will show her your template, but I think it is too direct for her.  She is so passive and worried about coming across as demanding, which makes this even harder for her.  

 

 

 

It's not demanding.  It is a gentle reminder and may alert the instructor that something is awry on their end if they thought that it had been submitted.

This is an area worth encouraging her, but also insisting that she not avoid the situation.  Most instructors really are not going to take offense at the reminder. 

[Kassia]

5 minutes ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

It's not demanding.  It is a gentle reminder and may alert the instructor that something is awry on their end if they thought that it had been submitted.

This is an area worth encouraging her, but also insisting that she not avoid the situation.  

 

Oh, I know it's not demanding...it's just convincing her of that.  She did end up emailing both instructors (after much angst!).  She heard back from one right away and is waiting on the other one (he's very bad with email).  

These recommendations have to be turned in with her application in person so she needs a hard copy of them and the professors would know that they weren't submitted.