Help with Composition for a child who struggles with EF

[Mom28kds]

I have a now 8th grader that gets very stressed out with too much work and struggles. She has executive functioning issues and ADHD. We are currently have a tutor come 2 times a week to help with writing/composition. We had to cancel the Math tutor because it was totally overwhelming her. We were eligible to get free tutoring through the Jon Peterson Scholarship in Ohio. My problem is that she really likes the tutor she has but through that we are required to take the state mandated testing in 8th grade and high school in order to continue and graduate.  Testing will be the beginning of April and they have reached out to me to schedule it. This will totally stress her out and the low grades won't be worth it. So I'm probably going to  need to cancel the tutor all together. My problem is ....... I'm terrible at writing and not sure how I can help her in this area. Is there a program/curriculum that we can use to teach her knowing that I'm not good at all at writing or how to teach her? Online wouldn't work. Thank you for any ideas. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Mom28kds

[maize]

I'm afraid I don't have subject-specific advice for you, but I am wondering if you are working directly to address her anxiety? Based on your description of her response to the math tutor and the response you anticipate to state testing, anxiety is significantly impacting her life and what she can and can't do.

I know there is no simple solution to that, we deal with lots of anxiety in this household. If anxiety is dictating significant life choices however I would hope that you are at least working too address that problem; that seems actually more urgent to me than addressing her composition skills.

I get the feeling of being between a rock and a hard place. Facilitating learning and development for some of these kids is really hard.

[Mom28kds]

6 minutes ago, maize said:

I'm afraid I don't have subject-specific advice for you, but I am wondering if you are working directly to address her anxiety? Based on your description of her response to the math tutor and the response you anticipate to state testing, anxiety is significantly impacting her life and what she can and can't do.

I know there is no simple solution to that, we deal with lots of anxiety in this household. If anxiety is dictating significant life choices however I would hope that you are at least working too address that problem; that seems actually more urgent to me than addressing her composition skills.

I get the feeling of being between a rock and a hard place. Facilitating learning and development for some of these kids is really hard.

Thank you! I'm certainly trying. I'm sure I could be doing better though. 

[wendyroo]

If she likes her tutor, then I would bend over backward to keep that arrangement.  If she does take the test, do her results matter in any way?  Will there be any real consequences for a low score?  If not, then I would just have her "take" it with as little stress as possible.

With my anxious kids, one testing strategy I have taught is "just figure out one answer choice you can eliminate and then randomly guess between the others".  Sometimes they do just that, other times knowing they have that strategy as a fall-back plan reduces the stress enough to let them complete the problems without being paralyzed by anxiety.  I also emphasize that some tests matter and others really don't, and that taking this particular test is just a hoop they have to jump through - they just need to stay calm, take their time, answer the questions they get to and not fret about mistakes, uncertainty or unfinished questions.

Then we plan something fun for after the test and try to put it behind us as quickly as possible.  It might not be pleasant, but it is a means to an end.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Mom28kds said:

My problem is that she really likes the tutor she has but through that we are required to take the state mandated testing in 8th grade and high school in order to continue and graduate. 

So it *is* true that the JP students are required to take the state testing, but it is NOT correct, to my understanding, that there is a consequence. YOU decide if she graduates, because she is legally homeschooled. You will receive the results and you will decide what to do with them. As long as you continue to comply with homeschooling law (portfolio review or standardized test scores), the state tests should have zero impact. Whoever told you they affect her ability to graduate were not correct, at least to my understanding. 

To me, the requirement for JP kids to take those state tests is just an example of efficiousness. If they are legally homeschooling, to me they should not need to. Nothing is done with the scores that affects the student, NOTHING. They are basically just a 3 day, $50 waste and a waste of your provider's time.

Additionally, you should know the tests are done on computer and can be done with accommodations. Any accommodations listed in her IEP will be used, meaning calculators, extended time, limited distractions, etc. My ds did the state testing one year, and I can't even remember what the scores were. They don't matter and you're going to vertical file them. 

So you need to talk with your provider and work it out. Our provider at the time contracted with a small school that had a very congenial set up. It was a couple afternoons of inconvenience but nothing more. Work it out, keep the tutors. And WRITE YOR REPRESENTATIVES and complain about this. Get to know them. This is a problem that could be changed legislatively. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Mom28kds said:

We had to cancel the Math tutor because it was totally overwhelming her.

So if you keep the writing tutor and work out the testing issues, then what's left is math. Was it the tutor or her? Because if it's her, it's time to get some counseling and meds for the anxiety. Just saying. There are quite a few strategies for anxiety, cognitive strategies. Jen Minahan has GREAT stuff. https://jessicaminahan.com  She might even benefit from some work on Interoception (Kelly Mahler's stuff). And just so you know, you get that anxiety diagnosed and she'd bump to tier 3, higher $$ on the JP. SLDs are tier 2 and anxiety is tier 3. If anxiety is affecting her ability to access her education and use a tutor, then it needs to be diagnosed and needs goals and intervention. And I'm not just saying that for the dollars. It's kinda the elephant in the room here, and they can do a combo of OT and counseling goals to get that on track. Meds can help too, but I'd be starting with the OT for interoception (self-awareness, self-monitoring) and the cognitive strategies.

[Mom28kds]

39 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

If she likes her tutor, then I would bend over backward to keep that arrangement.  If she does take the test, do her results matter in any way?  Will there be any real consequences for a low score?  If not, then I would just have her "take" it with as little stress as possible.

With my anxious kids, one testing strategy I have taught is "just figure out one answer choice you can eliminate and then randomly guess between the others".  Sometimes they do just that, other times knowing they have that strategy as a fall-back plan reduces the stress enough to let them complete the problems without being paralyzed by anxiety.  I also emphasize that some tests matter and others really don't, and that taking this particular test is just a hoop they have to jump through - they just need to stay calm, take their time, answer the questions they get to and not fret about mistakes, uncertainty or unfinished questions.

Then we plan something fun for after the test and try to put it behind us as quickly as possible.  It might not be pleasant, but it is a means to an end.

Thank You! I'll try this. Maybe sticking with it for the time being and trying this is worth it 🙂

Edited February 13, 2020 by Mom28kds

[Mom28kds]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

So it *is* true that the JP students are required to take the state testing, but it is NOT correct, to my understanding, that there is a consequence. YOU decide if she graduates, because she is legally homeschooled. You will receive the results and you will decide what to do with them. As long as you continue to comply with homeschooling law (portfolio review or standardized test scores), the state tests should have zero impact. Whoever told you they affect her ability to graduate were not correct, at least to my understanding. 

To me, the requirement for JP kids to take those state tests is just an example of efficiousness. If they are legally homeschooling, to me they should not need to. Nothing is done with the scores that affects the student, NOTHING. They are basically just a 3 day, $50 waste and a waste of your provider's time.

Additionally, you should know the tests are done on computer and can be done with accommodations. Any accommodations listed in her IEP will be used, meaning calculators, extended time, limited distractions, etc. My ds did the state testing one year, and I can't even remember what the scores were. They don't matter and you're going to vertical file them. 

So you need to talk with your provider and work it out. Our provider at the time contracted with a small school that had a very congenial set up. It was a couple afternoons of inconvenience but nothing more. Work it out, keep the tutors. And WRITE YOR REPRESENTATIVES and complain about this. Get to know them. This is a problem that could be changed legislatively. 

This is good to know. I'm just planning on doing the basics with her. Some of the couses she will be tested on to graduate I might not even do with her. Shes in Math u see Epsilon and might not even make it through Algebra 1 but will be tested on it if we continue. This is good to know that it won't keep her from graduating. Also, thanks for the information on anxiety. I'll look at those links you sent 🙂

Edited February 13, 2020 by Mom28kds

[kbutton]

I agree with the others that if tutoring isn't working, there is more that needs to be addressed.

On the writing, Thememaker by Mindwing Concepts. It could be overkill, but with that level of anxiety, breaking things down is going to be key. These materials are meant to be used for intervention, not just shoring up a weak area. You'll want to read articles or watch videos on the site about the program and how it works. It's great stuff.

[kbutton]

Oh, and the testing is not a big deal. No consequences. Love Wendy's suggested strategy!

[Mom28kds]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

So if you keep the writing tutor and work out the testing issues, then what's left is math. Was it the tutor or her? Because if it's her, it's time to get some counseling and meds for the anxiety. Just saying. There are quite a few strategies for anxiety, cognitive strategies. Jen Minahan has GREAT stuff. https://jessicaminahan.com  She might even benefit from some work on Interoception (Kelly Mahler's stuff). And just so you know, you get that anxiety diagnosed and she'd bump to tier 3, higher $$ on the JP. SLDs are tier 2 and anxiety is tier 3. If anxiety is affecting her ability to access her education and use a tutor, then it needs to be diagnosed and needs goals and intervention. And I'm not just saying that for the dollars. It's kinda the elephant in the room here, and they can do a combo of OT and counseling goals to get that on track. Meds can help too, but I'd be starting with the OT for interoception (self-awareness, self-monitoring) and the cognitive strategies.

It was both the tutor and Math. Math brings up the anxiety more than anything but the tutor didn't work well with her. So it wasn't worth continuing. I don't really understand the tiers. This is our first year with JP. What brings out her anxiety is when she doesn't understand something and it's too hard like Math or when given more than 1 thing to do at a time. How would someone get diagnosed?

Edited February 13, 2020 by Mom28kds

[kbutton]

Once you get some anxiety under control and get success, you could add in a different math tutor. We've been through several tutors, lol! All worked well with my kids by personality and general likability, but only some made academic progress. 

[Mom28kds]

Thanks eveyone!!! I decided to stick with it and go through the testing this year and see how it goes. I'll play it down as just something we have to do and have a treat like someone suggested. It's good to know we can graduate regardless but I'm still a little concernced about the high testing requirement but we will cross that bridge when we get to it. Thanks for the information regarding the anxiety. I've never really thought she had anxiety, just stressed under some circumstances. Maybe this will help me decifer those issues as well. Thankfull for this board and the wonderful, knowlegable Moms on here 🥰

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Mom28kds said:

I don't really understand the tiers. This is our first year with JP. What brings out her anxiety is when she doesn't understand something and it's too hard like Math or when given more than 1 thing to do at a time. How would someone get diagnosed?

There's a chart on the ODE site for the tiers of the scholarship and what disabling conditions are assigned to what tiers. So speech with nothing else, for example, is tier 1 and has restrictions. Tier 2 is SLDs and some other things. Tier 3 anxiety, OHI, etc. Tier 5 autism, or they can roll over to the autism scholarship. It's why people fight over what disabling condition is marked for the IEP, because that decides funding. Your scholarship would almost double if you bumped to tier 3.

28 minutes ago, Mom28kds said:

I've never really thought she had anxiety, just stressed under some circumstances.

So a psychologist diagnoses anxiety and they would do behavioral forms with people working with her to see if it is occurring across settings. There's usually some concensus, like oh yeah we're seeing it, and the forms just back it up. And anxiety doesn't always look like what you think. That's why Minihan's materials could be helpful to you. It can look like behaviors, resistance, language dropping, etc. 

I talk about this a lot, but the place to start is whether she realizes how she's feeling and can self-advocate. https://www.kelly-mahler.com/what-is-interoception/  If she has the interoception piece, everything goes better. If she needs help to be more self-aware, then that's where you start.

Edited February 13, 2020 by PeterPan

[Storygirl]

Talk to the pediatrican about diagnosing the anxiety. Some will do it themselves, and others will refer you to a psychologist or psychiatrist. Psychologists can diagnose but cannot prescribe meds, so some doctors might prefer to send her to a psychiatrist. There are things that can be taught in counseling to reduce anxiety, however, so establishing a relationship with a psychologist might be a good idea.

I agree for you to work through figuring out the testing issues, before giving up the scholarship. Having a team of people to help can be really important, and I'd hate for you to give that up. Since one tutor did not work out, try to find another one. Sometimes a change in personality and approach can make a big difference.

I agree that doing poorly on the testing will not affect graduation prospects. My DS15 is enrolled in public school and will very likely not pass the end of course tests required by the state and will not get through all the material that typical peers do (he is in special ed), but the school will figure out a path to graduation for him. You, as a homeschooler, have more leeway with YOUR graduation requirements than the public schools do, so you should be fine.

The only issue with her not getting through all of the usual high school material is that it will affect whether she can go to college. My feeling with my own child is that if high school is too hard, that college is not realistic, so I don't worry about that.

 

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

Talk to the pediatrican about diagnosing the anxiety. Some will do it themselves, and others will refer you to a psychologist or psychiatrist. Psychologists can diagnose but cannot prescribe meds, so some doctors might prefer to send her to a psychiatrist.

And op probably knows this, but that initial diagnosis is only the *evidence* you would then use to go back to the school and say you suspect the anxiety is affecting her ability to access her education. Technically, you shouldn't even need the private diagnosis but could just write your coor and say you suspect the anxiety and are asking them to convene the team. It's something the school should be able to handle easily and have the forms for, no problem.

But just remember the difference, that a private diagnosis is saying the anxiety is happening (your question) and the school diagnosis is saying it's happening across settings enough that it affects her ability to access her education (which it sounds like it may be) and therefore needs goals and service (which it very well could). So them saying no doesn't mean it's not happening, only that it's hard to get evidence as a homeschooler of it happening across settings and affecting her ability to access her education. But affecting her ability to use her tutors, that's pretty significant. And getting the services could be good. There's a lot of great stuff they're doing now with mindfulness, interoception, zones, cognitive strategies, etc. It's kind of a good for everyone, will apply to all your kids, useful kind of thing.

Oh, and when I visited one of the big dyslexia schools near us, they were using supports across labels. Like if you were in there for dyslexia (sure), they EXPECTED you to need some supports for anxiety, emotional regulation, social thinking, etc. They didn't categorize it so much but just had all the supports there, ready to go. Story can speak to that too, just saying that's something I saw when I toured and was really surprised about.

[Mom28kds]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

There's a chart on the ODE site for the tiers of the scholarship and what disabling conditions are assigned to what tiers. So speech with nothing else, for example, is tier 1 and has restrictions. Tier 2 is SLDs and some other things. Tier 3 anxiety, OHI, etc. Tier 5 autism, or they can roll over to the autism scholarship. It's why people fight over what disabling condition is marked for the IEP, because that decides funding. Your scholarship would almost double if you bumped to tier 3.

So a psychologist diagnoses anxiety and they would do behavioral forms with people working with her to see if it is occurring across settings. There's usually some concensus, like oh yeah we're seeing it, and the forms just back it up. And anxiety doesn't always look like what you think. That's why Minihan's materials could be helpful to you. It can look like behaviors, resistance, language dropping, etc. 

I talk about this a lot, but the place to start is whether she realizes how she's feeling and can self-advocate. https://www.kelly-mahler.com/what-is-interoception/  If she has the interoception piece, everything goes better. If she needs help to be more self-aware, then that's where you start.

Ok I'll start here and look into interoception and the books you mentioned earlier.  It's a bit overwhelming. Thank you!

Edited February 13, 2020 by Mom28kds

[Mom28kds]

3 hours ago, Storygirl said:

Talk to the pediatrican about diagnosing the anxiety. Some will do it themselves, and others will refer you to a psychologist or psychiatrist. Psychologists can diagnose but cannot prescribe meds, so some doctors might prefer to send her to a psychiatrist. There are things that can be taught in counseling to reduce anxiety, however, so establishing a relationship with a psychologist might be a good idea.

I agree for you to work through figuring out the testing issues, before giving up the scholarship. Having a team of people to help can be really important, and I'd hate for you to give that up. Since one tutor did not work out, try to find another one. Sometimes a change in personality and approach can make a big difference.

I agree that doing poorly on the testing will not affect graduation prospects. My DS15 is enrolled in public school and will very likely not pass the end of course tests required by the state and will not get through all the material that typical peers do (he is in special ed), but the school will figure out a path to graduation for him. You, as a homeschooler, have more leeway with YOUR graduation requirements than the public schools do, so you should be fine.

The only issue with her not getting through all of the usual high school material is that it will affect whether she can go to college. My feeling with my own child is that if high school is too hard, that college is not realistic, so I don't worry about that.

 

College is not realistic at this point. Things can change though 🙂

[PeterPan]

Fwiw, it gets maligned around here, but MUS did some good for my dd. It helped her learn to self-monitor her comprehension, and it allowed her to review some things and get solid. This was the high school sequence.