Tell me the pros and cons (if there are any) of these two ideas

[DawnM]

Rewriting because it was way too wordy.

My son wants to transfer schools.  Current school doesn't have the major he wants.  He has had a bad semester with some lower than desired grades.  

Should he stay where he is, get his overall GPA up, and try to transfer, or should he go to community college and get high grades in what he loves, and try to get into the desired school from there?

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by DawnM

[MerryAtHope]

I think I’d go with the community college that has his major. He’ll be happier being able to study something he enjoys, and I don’t know that it makes that big of a difference where he goes to bring his grades up.

[Arctic Bunny]

It’s going to be a tough slog and a lot of money to get grades up if he’s not motivated!

I would prefer getting good grades in interesting classes!

[Chris in VA]

Have you calculated what grades he would need to attain in order to get his gpa up to apply to the second school (not the CC)?  He may not be able to raise his gpa high enough, if it is based on a lot of classes already. I'm sorry, I have forgotten what year he is. 

Can he apply directly to the second uni? And if he doesn't get in, then go to CC?

[DawnM]

I wasn't clear.  His current college has the classes that will be the same, they have a minor in his field, just not a major.

So he will take the same classes in either school.

[DawnM]

Just now, Chris in VA said:

Have you calculated what grades he would need to attain in order to get his gpa up to apply to the second school (not the CC)?  He may not be able to raise his gpa high enough, if it is based on a lot of classes already. I'm sorry, I have forgotten what year he is. 

Can he apply directly to the second uni? And if he doesn't get in, then go to CC?

 

That is what I am not sure matters?    He will still need to turn in his current grades as is and the new college will see he did poorly this year whether he stays here or goes to CC.

If he had a school picked out, I might be inclined to do that, he just is researching where to go at this point AND, we are trying to save a bit of $$ if we can (local college to get Gen Ed and a few classes first.). He is definitely on the 5 year track.  

[Chris in VA]

24 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

That is what I am not sure matters?    He will still need to turn in his current grades as is and the new college will see he did poorly this year whether he stays here or goes to CC.

If he had a school picked out, I might be inclined to do that, he just is researching where to go at this point AND, we are trying to save a bit of $$ if we can (local college to get Gen Ed and a few classes first.). He is definitely on the 5 year track.  

So he doesn't have a school lined up to transfer to? It is kinda late to be applying somewhere. Not impossible but...

So I would have him pick somewhere asap or at least make a short list so he can look at transfer gpa requirements  and plan from there. 

[DawnM]

42 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

So he doesn't have a school lined up to transfer to? It is kinda late to be applying somewhere. Not impossible but...

So I would have him pick somewhere asap or at least make a short list so he can look at transfer gpa requirements  and plan from there. 

 

No, he isn't ready to jump ship just yet.  He has plenty of gen ed classes left he can take.  He is applying to a 7 month internship right now and had planned to either stay here or do CC for a semester, or maybe even a year.  He will look at another college for Fall of 2021 most likely.

Will the next college take his two colleges he has been to and calculate an overall GPA based on that?  Or will they primarily look at his last school?  If they are going to calculate it overall, CC or current school won't really matter.  That is what I am wondering.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think the way transfer applications are considered depend heavily on the specific situation. The relative selectivity of the two 4 year colleges will matter, as will the major he is trying to get (at some colleges, certain majors are restricted because of high demand and might not be available to transfers).

I don't know how they will calculate GPA. Often transfer credit will come over as credit, but won't come with a grade. There could also be grade requirements for courses to transfer (example, a C might transfer but a C- or D might not, even though they were passing grades). Again this will depend on the course and the policy of the college transferred to.

Many transfer applications have March 1 deadlines, so he might be able to get transfer applications in now and start elsewhere if the fall. That could let him coordinate with the new college to see if he should take or retake anything at a CC over the summer. Coordination would be important to get preapproval for credit transfer.

Can you share his hoped for major?

His current college has a minor in his interest so they offer some courses. Can he put together courses such that he has the effect of the degree experience he's seeking even if the labeling is different? For example, if a college didn't have a film production major, bur did have a film production minor, a student might major in an adjacent major (communications, English, digital media), minor in film production and where possible make course choices that supported his interests (ex for a world culture requirement he might use a course on French Cinema). Adding additional minors to a more general major might also help (ex our hypothetical film student might add a marketing or business or Spanish minor).

Does his current college have clubs or activities through which he can gain the experience he's looking for outside the framework of a major? Does it have an interdisciplinary or design your own major option? 

Whatever route he goes, encourage him to get involved at his current school. He can engage with student clubs and go to office hours with professors in the area he is interested in.  He should not be shy about seeking out academic help or a campus counselor. Students often feel like they are alone in feeling out of place or anxious or depressed. They usually aren't alone in having these feelings. 

 

[catz]

Do you have a sense why his grades aren’t what they could be?   Is he actually struggling academically?   Poor time management?  Etc.  those would be important considerations to me.  Like sometimes when you are in a hole it’s hard to get out of it without some changes overall.   If he went to CC from home maybe having some support at home would be helpful?   And would be a more financially forgiving option if he is floundering a bit.  

[almondbutterandjelly]

Read your other posts from SN board.  Sounds like he maybe needs to live at home and have more support (emotional, whatever) to continue moving forward.  Nothing wrong with that.  I think Community College would fit the bill nicely.  Cross the transfer bridge when you're closer to it.

[klmama]

I think the main reason to stay at the current school would be to retake any courses possible for grade replacement, if they offer that option. He'd have to really be up for it, though.  Sometimes students do worse the second time, if they aren't 100% dedicated to doing what's needed to improve. If that doesn't sound like a good idea, CC might be better, since the classes would interest him more.

[Farrar]

So he's had a year at college and it wasn't great? And then he's going to do an internship, take more classes, and apply as a transfer student?

I'd say change to the CC and make a break from the school that wasn't working. You never know for sure because redeeming one's self at the first college could be good or the classes could be seen as more rigorous. However, I think telling the story in his application of I tried this school, I struggled because x and y, but it helped me learn a and b about myself, so I left and took these steps and am now on my set path with this experience and these better grades from my local CC, ready to tackle this new program... sounds like a good story to tell. If that makes sense.

[Corraleno]

I don't think colleges generally combine the GPAs from different schools to arrive at a single GPA, unless the courses from one school have been formally transferred to another school, so there is a single final transcript containing a combined GPA. I suspect they will look at the gPA on two separate transcripts as two separate GPAs, and then wonder what caused the difference. I would be concerned that they might think the higher grades at CC reflect a lower level of rigor combined with needing parental support while living at home, and might therefore see the lower GPA from his current school as more indicative of how he would perform while living away from home at their school.

Does his current school have grade forgiveness? IMO if they do, and your DS is willing to do that, that would be the best way to improve his GPA and prove to the transfer school that he can handle living away at a 4 yr school. If it's mostly the boring GE classes he is having trouble with, is it possible to test out of some of those? And have you looked at the GE requirements for the transfer school?  If some of the required GE courses at his current school would be irrelevant at the transfer school, I would let him just take the courses he enjoys plus one "grade forgiveness" course per semester, and not even worry whether he's meeting the current school's GE requirements.

If none of those things will work, or your DS is adamant about coming home, you could look into the possibility of transferring the courses with good grades from his current school back to the CC, then finish a 2-yr degree from the CC and transfer from there. He'd still have to provide a transcript from the current school, but if the school he wants to transfer to will accept the AA/AS/AAS as a block, they may focus primarily on the GPA that goes with the AA/AS/AAS, since those will be the courses he is transferring to them.

 

[regentrude]

How bad are his grades? Can he replace them if he retakes the course at his current institution?

[DawnM]

6 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Do you have a sense why his grades aren’t what they could be?   Is he actually struggling academically?   Poor time management?  Etc.  those would be important considerations to me.  Like sometimes when you are in a hole it’s hard to get out of it without some changes overall.   If he went to CC from home maybe having some support at home would be helpful?   And would be a more financially forgiving option if he is floundering a bit.  

 

He is an artist by nature and was trying to get into Engineering and has floundered.  Chem and Physics are just not his jam.  Interestingly enough, he doesn't struggle in the math portion and does well in Calc 1 and 2.  But the sciences.....nope!

 

[DawnM]

7 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How bad are his grades? Can he replace them if he retakes the course at his current institution?

 

He was going to, but missed the deadline to retake a class, so now he is retaking it and will have BOTH grades on his transcript.  I should say, he didn't know there was a deadline, he just heard the advisor say to retake them, so he signed up for them, and then the advisor said, "Oh, there was a deadline, you missed it."  His last school had it automatically replace the grade, it didn't occur to me that it would be an issues.......sigh.

He had a 3.5 (roughly) his Freshman year, with 37 credits overall.

Last semester he had a 2.1 with 13 credits.  Currently, he has a 2.7 with 17 credits, but it is early in the semester, and quite honestly, I am encouraging him to drop Physics as it wont' count for anything if he doesn't stay in Engineering, and no need to stress and get a low grade if he doesn't need it.

[DawnM]

6 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

I think the way transfer applications are considered depend heavily on the specific situation. The relative selectivity of the two 4 year colleges will matter, as will the major he is trying to get (at some colleges, certain majors are restricted because of high demand and might not be available to transfers).

I don't know how they will calculate GPA. Often transfer credit will come over as credit, but won't come with a grade. There could also be grade requirements for courses to transfer (example, a C might transfer but a C- or D might not, even though they were passing grades). Again this will depend on the course and the policy of the college transferred to.

Many transfer applications have March 1 deadlines, so he might be able to get transfer applications in now and start elsewhere if the fall. That could let him coordinate with the new college to see if he should take or retake anything at a CC over the summer. Coordination would be important to get preapproval for credit transfer.

He had no intentions of switching for this upcoming year, or at least not first Semester.  

6 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

Can you share his hoped for major?

Film/Editing/Cinematography

6 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

His current college has a minor in his interest so they offer some courses. Can he put together courses such that he has the effect of the degree experience he's seeking even if the labeling is different? For example, if a college didn't have a film production major, bur did have a film production minor, a student might major in an adjacent major (communications, English, digital media), minor in film production and where possible make course choices that supported his interests (ex for a world culture requirement he might use a course on French Cinema). Adding additional minors to a more general major might also help (ex our hypothetical film student might add a marketing or business or Spanish minor).

Well, I am kind of basing the classes he can take on what I am seeing at one of his intended colleges.   He has 3 he is considering.  I am kind of helping him cross reference to see what might work for all 3 in terms of transfer credits.

The Art college he is looking at has no such minors.  The other two liberal arts colleges might, but he isn't interested, if anything, he wants a minor in music.

6 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

Does his current college have clubs or activities through which he can gain the experience he's looking for outside the framework of a major? Does it have an interdisciplinary or design your own major option? 

Not really, and I wouldn't want him majoring in Film with a non-film school.  

6 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

Whatever route he goes, encourage him to get involved at his current school. He can engage with student clubs and go to office hours with professors in the area he is interested in.  He should not be shy about seeking out academic help or a campus counselor. Students often feel like they are alone in feeling out of place or anxious or depressed. They usually aren't alone in having these feelings. 

He goes to tutoring sessions.  He travels 45 min. each way so getting "involved" has not worked that well.  We talked to him about living on campus and he has considered it, but right now it just isn't feesable to have his last class get out at 2pm but have him stay until a 7pm club or activity.  

6 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

 

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, perkybunch said:

Read your other posts from SN board.  Sounds like he maybe needs to live at home and have more support (emotional, whatever) to continue moving forward.  Nothing wrong with that.  I think Community College would fit the bill nicely.  Cross the transfer bridge when you're closer to it.

 

I think you may be looking at my other son? My oldest is the one with Asperger's.  He is home and not attending school at all.

My middle son does have ADD but he is currently living at home and commuting.  

[DawnM]

28 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I don't think colleges generally combine the GPAs from different schools to arrive at a single GPA, unless the courses from one school have been formally transferred to another school, so there is a single final transcript containing a combined GPA. I suspect they will look at the gPA on two separate transcripts as two separate GPAs, and then wonder what caused the difference. I would be concerned that they might think the higher grades at CC reflect a lower level of rigor combined with needing parental support while living at home, and might therefore see the lower GPA from his current school as more indicative of how he would perform while living away from home at their school.

 

The bolded crossed my mind as well, althoug he was getting a 3.5 when he was away at college his first year.

28 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Does his current school have grade forgiveness? IMO if they do, and your DS is willing to do that, that would be the best way to improve his GPA and prove to the transfer school that he can handle living away at a 4 yr school. If it's mostly the boring GE classes he is having trouble with, is it possible to test out of some of those? And have you looked at the GE requirements for the transfer school?  If some of the required GE courses at his current school would be irrelevant at the transfer school, I would let him just take the courses he enjoys plus one "grade forgiveness" course per semester, and not even worry whether he's meeting the current school's GE requirements.

If none of those things will work, or your DS is adamant about coming home, you could look into the possibility of transferring the courses with good grades from his current school back to the CC, then finish a 2-yr degree from the CC and transfer from there. He'd still have to provide a transcript from the current school, but if the school he wants to transfer to will accept the AA/AS/AAS as a block, they may focus primarily on the GPA that goes with the AA/AS/AAS, since those will be the courses he is transferring to them.

 

 

He IS at home, he isn't adament about coming home.  He is commuting now.   He will be going away to college again in the fugure.

[DawnM]

Thanks guys.  It is helping me think through things and at least be able to advise him.

[MerryAtHope]

Is there a lot of difference in cost? If he is still kind of exploring majors, that’s often a lot cheaper to do at a community college.

[DawnM]

4 minutes ago, MerryAtHope said:

Is there a lot of difference in cost? If he is still kind of exploring majors, that’s often a lot cheaper to do at a community college.

 

Yes, it is about double at the 4 year school.  But if it would help him, I don't mind.  Neither is terribly expensive.

[Reefgazer]

On 2/11/2020 at 7:17 PM, DawnM said:

Rewriting because it was way too wordy.

My son wants to transfer schools.  Current school doesn't have the major he wants.  He has had a bad semester with some lower than desired grades.  

Should he stay where he is, get his overall GPA up, and try to transfer, or should he go to community college and get high grades in what he loves, and try to get into the desired school from there?

 

 

Second option - to community college.  Life is too short to persist where he is unhappy and not doing well.

[lmrich]

If he wants to transfer, you will need to help him navigate that process. Every school has different requirements and then some majors have unique requirements. Some require 24 hours most 30. The GPA is all over the place. 

I vote save money and do the community college thing, unless you can transfer sooner. Transfer deadlines, for some schools, extend into the summer so you have time. 

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, lmrich said:

If he wants to transfer, you will need to help him navigate that process. Every school has different requirements and then some majors have unique requirements. Some require 24 hours most 30. The GPA is all over the place. 

I vote save money and do the community college thing, unless you can transfer sooner. Transfer deadlines, for some schools, extend into the summer so you have time. 

 

He will have close to 70 credits by the end of this semester.   I have explained why the GPA is the way that it is.  We know about requirements, etc....But I was just wondering if it matters if he should stay and raise his GPA where it is or if that particular piece would matter for most schools (just a general question) or not.

[DawnM]

10 hours ago, Reefgazer said:

Second option - to community college.  Life is too short to persist where he is unhappy and not doing well.

 

He is not unhappy, I am not sure where that came into the discussion.  And again, he is doing very well in all BUT his science classes.  

[katilac]

Question: did the change in major come up because of the 'bad semester?' As in, only because of less than stellar grades? Because a 2.1  and a 2.7 certainly don't get him out of the game for an engineering major. Many STEM students have the shock of seeing their grades drop when they hit that semester full of science and math. I can't recall from prior posts if he has spoken to an advisor, a prof, or an upperclassman, but he should definitely do so. If his turnabout was really being driven by that 2.1 and thinking "I'm no good at this," then he should really take another look at things before jumping ship. 

Potential transfer schools will look at the overall GPA, but will certainly take into account if there is a bad semester followed by improving grades. If you're looking at film schools, I think you need to look at those specifically, they are a different animal. Film schools (and many/most film majors) are going to require a portfolio of some kind. He won't need a ton of clips, but he'll need at least one. He'll need a vision or creative statement, and a list of projects he was worked on in addition to his clip. In other words, they want to see that you've already delved intf filmmaking, not just that you're interested in it. That's something he can be working on. 

My other bit of advice is that I think living near an industry hub is just as, or possibly more, important than going to a film school (as opposed to a school with a film major). I'm thinking you are in Cali so most schools probably work for that, lol. But a lot of students do very well getting into the industry here even though they just take the film major at a 'regular' uni, because we have a very active film industry and they get real experience and start meeting people while still in school. We're part of 'Hollywood South' which sure isn't Hollywood, but there is a lot of work here and a lot of connections to Cali. So, if he doesn't get into a film school, a film major in a city like New Orleans might serve him very well. I know there are a couple of others but can't think of them right now. 

[DawnM]

55 minutes ago, katilac said:

Question: did the change in major come up because of the 'bad semester?' As in, only because of less than stellar grades? Because a 2.1  and a 2.7 certainly don't get him out of the game for an engineering major. Many STEM students have the shock of seeing their grades drop when they hit that semester full of science and math. I can't recall from prior posts if he has spoken to an advisor, a prof, or an upperclassman, but he should definitely do so. If his turnabout was really being driven by that 2.1 and thinking "I'm no good at this," then he should really take another look at things before jumping ship. 

Potential transfer schools will look at the overall GPA, but will certainly take into account if there is a bad semester followed by improving grades. If you're looking at film schools, I think you need to look at those specifically, they are a different animal. Film schools (and many/most film majors) are going to require a portfolio of some kind. He won't need a ton of clips, but he'll need at least one. He'll need a vision or creative statement, and a list of projects he was worked on in addition to his clip. In other words, they want to see that you've already delved intf filmmaking, not just that you're interested in it. That's something he can be working on. 

My other bit of advice is that I think living near an industry hub is just as, or possibly more, important than going to a film school (as opposed to a school with a film major). I'm thinking you are in Cali so most schools probably work for that, lol. But a lot of students do very well getting into the industry here even though they just take the film major at a 'regular' uni, because we have a very active film industry and they get real experience and start meeting people while still in school. We're part of 'Hollywood South' which sure isn't Hollywood, but there is a lot of work here and a lot of connections to Cali. So, if he doesn't get into a film school, a film major in a city like New Orleans might serve him very well. I know there are a couple of others but can't think of them right now. 

 

He wanted film/cinemetogrphy originally, but then decided he might like Engineering, so he went into pre-engineering.  It just didn't go as he thought and he is going back to film.

We know how the art schools that are art specific work.  My older son is in one and 2nd son did a portfolio before.  He will be adding to it, but he already has one.

We do not live in CA anymore.  We would love to move back, but that is whole 'nother post.  However, honestly, he is looking more at music video type film than movies and television.  And he would love to combine a music minor with it.  But we will see where it takes him.  MY personal feeling is that editing is his "jam" but he thinks he would enjoy the filming/directing part as well.   

He is looking at Nashville as one possibility.

I have a couple of friends whose kids went to Film school in Canada and they are doing documentaries around the globe.  I would love to see him involved in that as well.  We will see.

Edited February 13, 2020 by DawnM

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I was just wondering if it matters if he should stay and raise his GPA where it is or if that particular piece would matter for most schools (just a general question) or not.

I think the answer to that question really comes down to the grade forgiveness policy at his current school. At DS's uni, kids can retake up to 3 courses and the original grade is dropped from the GPA. (It stays on the transcript, but isn't included in GPA calculations.) If your son's current school has that kind of policy, and he's willing to retake the 2 or 3 courses with the worst grades, then it would be worth it to stay where he is, bring up the GPA, and transfer from there.

If they don't have a grade forgiveness policy, or he doesn't want to retake those same classes, and you think he would get better grades at the CC, then it makes sense to switch.

[G5052]

Of course research transfer policies and such, but I'm a big fan of community colleges and teach at that level. The ones in my state have wonderful guaranteed admission agreements that allow you to start local and then go to well-known schools fairly seamlessly. Both of mine did CC first and then now are at a great school in nationally-ranked programs.

We saved a huge amount of money, and it built up their confidence. 

[MerryAtHope]

 It really sounds like you could go either way with this. What does your son want to do? 

[DawnM]

3 hours ago, MerryAtHope said:

 It really sounds like you could go either way with this. What does your son want to do? 

 

He is open really.  

[DawnM]

And now he is saying he still wants to finish this semester and see, he might still like engineering if he can get in.

See why he needs a gap semester or year?

[MerryAtHope]

20 minutes ago, DawnM said:

And now he is saying he still wants to finish this semester and see, he might still like engineering if he can get in.

See why he needs a gap semester or year?

 

I feel your pain! My ds did the same thing--only for him there wasn't anything he liked a lot--just things he pursued and ruled out as possibilities and a big question mark! He took a gap year after getting his associate's degree at our local CC, and that really helped him explore and decide. 

[katilac]

On 2/16/2020 at 1:33 PM, DawnM said:

And now he is saying he still wants to finish this semester and see, he might still like engineering if he can get in.

See why he needs a gap semester or year?

It's so, so common to have uncertainty and multiple changes of major! I'm not a huge fan of gap years or semesters due just to uncertainty, unless the student is the one really driving the decision and thinking that some work experience would help them decide. Unless he has a line on some actually interesting work, I (as a parent) would prefer that he stay in school and maybe increase his efforts to meet and speak with engineers, do some visits to engineering firms, a job shadow, whatever.

If he ends the semester still torn, just remind him that you can be a filmmaker with an engineering degree, but you can't be an engineer with a filmmaking degree 😄

[Bootsie]

On 2/13/2020 at 1:23 PM, Corraleno said:

I think the answer to that question really comes down to the grade forgiveness policy at his current school. At DS's uni, kids can retake up to 3 courses and the original grade is dropped from the GPA. (It stays on the transcript, but isn't included in GPA calculations.) If your son's current school has that kind of policy, and he's willing to retake the 2 or 3 courses with the worst grades, then it would be worth it to stay where he is, bring up the GPA, and transfer from there.

If they don't have a grade forgiveness policy, or he doesn't want to retake those same classes, and you think he would get better grades at the CC, then it makes sense to switch.

This will really depend on how selective admissions is at the school where he wants to go.  If the class shows up on the transcript, but is not used in GPA calculations at the first school, the second school can view this first grade however it chooses.  It can also start impacting a student's financial aid because repeating classes for a higher grade will not count toward "making progress" toward a degree.