ugh, I made my DH sad

[ktgrok]

He told me today that since I'm doing the budgeting now, instead of surprising me he wanted me to know that he's looking at Air BNB places by my moms house for my birthday - to stay for two nights just him and I on the beach while my mom watches all the kids. 

Except...I've never left the youngest alone even for one night. And she still wakes up crying for me on a semi regular basis - she has nightmares sometimes and other times just kicks all the covers off and wants mom. And she still nurses. And yeah. So I wasn't excited like he expected. More concerned. He got all quite and I know he's disappointed. Part of me feels I should just say yes because he's sad. Another part of me says I shouldn't do something I'm not comfortable with for MY birthday celebration. 

Not to mention we really shouldn't spend the money. 

And I mean, he works so much, even he has only gotten DD to sleep maybe twice in her life. To go from me doing it every night to dropping her off and leaving her for two nights? Without even asking what I thought of the idea first, or considering any of that?

Yeah. 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Ktgrok

[Terabith]

Oh no!  Yeah, I wouldn't be okay with that, either.  

[ktgrok]

A year from now, fine. But I don't need my getting up there in years mom dealing with an inconsolable toddler at 3am, you know? I'd be worried about both of them. 

And I know he thought it would be nice. I feel like such a grinch. 

[katilac]

She's almost 3? I say go for it, at least for one night. You could all sleep at your mom's on Friday, let little bit get used to the house and bed and how much Grandma is gonna spoil her. Leave Saturday morning, pick them up Sunday evening. 

[katilac]

And, if you have time, maybe even do a dry run sleeping at Grandma's beforehand. 

[Terabith]

Having had a kid who nursed till 3.5 and would NOT have handled separation well, I definitely wouldn't.  One kid would have been fine.  I can't imagine how much it would have traumatized other one.  

[Ottakee]

10 minutes ago, katilac said:

She's almost 3? I say go for it, at least for one night. You could all sleep at your mom's on Friday, let little bit get used to the house and bed and how much Grandma is gonna spoil her. Leave Saturday morning, pick them up Sunday evening. 

I can't see ages, but I like this idea.  I understand and support the needs of the kids but there are also the needs of the parents and marriage to consider.  One night away with Grandma and other siblings might be rough but not likely to have long lasting negative impacts.   Time away with just dh to relax and reconnect could have long term positive impacts.

[Jentrovert]

Hugs. Something similar has happened to me several times. Once, dh even made surprise plans for something I had specifically and clearly told him I did not want to do. That time, I was pretty upset. But usually, if I can accomodate it, I do. And if it's just a really bad idea, we discuss the reasons.

Do you have time to have a practice night at Grandma's, to see if it's at all practical?

And, it's probably more the alone time he's wanting, than the specific place, so for the budget issues, maybe the kids could stay at Grandma's and the two of you have a mini stay-cation at home?

[Katy]

When is his birthday?

I think this wasn't only about your birthday and reconnecting in a low stress time.  It was about him having a bedroom with you without any children.  TEA.

That's a present for him.  So if his birthday is in 6+ months or at some point in the future I'd be okay with scheduling it now, but not doing it now.

Schedule it for a year from now.

[hjffkj]

I think at 3 years old it is a reasonable time to try an overnight, even if you're uncomfortable with it. Maybe not as a birthday celebration for you since it isn't what you wanted but as a couple for a random trip. 3 years without a night with just your spouse is a long time imo and if it is something your dh needs please consider it. Maybe start with just one night and if that night goes well for DD maybe see about adding the 2nd night the day of.

[hjffkj]

I certainly understand the not wanting it to be your birthday celebration though.

[Joker]

Didn't your dh just have a scare too with his blood pressure? I would try really hard to make at least one night away alone happen in the near (not a year from now)  future since it seems he wants it. It doesn't need to be your birthday if it's not what you want, but I would start planning to make it work.

[lovinmyboys]

I get it. We just left the kids for a weekend away for the first time and my youngest is 7! But, we never lived near family. Maybe tell him when the youngest is done nursing? 

[madteaparty]

I know. DH has been asking to go away just the two of us for the longest time. And my kids are old and my in laws would fly here to shuffle them around. I’m like, nah I’m good. How about I take the kids and we go somewhere. For 4 months. You can visit us. Ugh that sounds so bad written down.

but I’ve reformed and I found a place that’s very much adult and we are going this fall. I’m already looking into separate flights etc but that’s my other sort of crazy. 

[Ausmumof3]

Dh has learnt over the years that I don’t leave nursing babies or toddlers overnight.  I would now the kids are older but it hasn’t come up lately.  I hate that this has become a societal expectation.  I would just explain that you really won’t enjoy it yet due to the worry.

[Tap]

I ended up in a similar situation one year. I gave in to dh, and regretted every minute of it. Never. Ever Again. Will I let him make me feel like I have to put aside my own feelings to make him feel good about a gift. I hate that I let his feelings have more value, than my own.

The last three surprise trips, left me resenting him more and more, with each one. I have told dh soooo many times, that I hate surprises. He loves to do them, and just doesn't understand me. I realized that part of what I hate, is that it makes me realize how much disconnect there is between us, that he thinks that I will like xyz.  

I hope that you can either decide it is something you want to do and fully embrace it, or ask him to reschedule until you are ready. 

[maize]

I wouldn't do it. 

I would worry about the little one being traumatized by being away from me and wouldn't be able to enjoy the time.

[linders]

7 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Except...I've never left the youngest alone even for one night. And she still wakes up crying for me on a semi regular basis - she has nightmares sometimes and other times just kicks all the covers off and wants mom. And she still nurses. And yeah. So I wasn't excited like he expected. More concerned. He got all quite and I know he's disappointed. Part of me feels I should just say yes because he's sad. Another part of me says I shouldn't do something I'm not comfortable with for MY birthday celebration...

And I mean, he works so much, even he has only gotten DD to sleep maybe twice in her life. To go from me doing it every night to dropping her off and leaving her for two nights? Without even asking what I thought of the idea first, or considering any of that?

Very, very gently. I'm I understanding your siggie correctly that the "baby" is almost 3? No judgement here on nursing and nighttime cuddles. However....maybe at this point, DH is feeling the loss of bonding time with you. You mentioned he works a lot. That relationship is important, too.

Yes, he should have asked, but...could you possibly consider a one-night thing? Has your mom previously spend time with the little one? If you feel that your mom is a good cuddly grandma, she can handle the one night. And it might actually be good for the little one - I really don't think one night will traumatize. And ultimately, it would likely be good for you, too.

[maize]

2 hours ago, linders said:

Very, very gently. I'm I understanding your siggie correctly that the "baby" is almost 3? No judgement here on nursing and nighttime cuddles. However....maybe at this point, DH is feeling the loss of bonding time with you. You mentioned he works a lot. That relationship is important, too.

Yes, he should have asked, but...could you possibly consider a one-night thing? Has your mom previously spend time with the little one? If you feel that your mom is a good cuddly grandma, she can handle the one night. And it might actually be good for the little one - I really don't think one night will traumatize. And ultimately, it would likely be good for you, too.

It isn't her job to make sure things are the way her husband wants for *her* birthday.

And yes, a one night separation from mother can absolutely be traumatizing to a nursing child. Or a non-nursing child who relies on mom for comfort. 

I was about three and a half the first time my parents left me overnight at a grandparent's house. I remember crying in bed because I was scared. That is my clearest early memory, the emotions involved were pretty strong to be burned into my mind that way. I'd go with mother's intuition as to whether it would be potentially traumatizing or not for her child; yeah some kids are fine with being left--and some aren't. Natural anxiety levels play a big role in that. And still nursing means pretty attached--not a bad thing, tiny vulnerable people are meant to be attached to reliable big people.

Of course the relationship with her husband is important. And his relationship with her is important. There are lots of ways to nurture that relationship that do not pit the perceived needs of her child against the perceived needs of her spouse.

Edited February 7, 2020 by maize

[J-rap]

I would try and make it happen sometime in the near future...  Not necessarily on your birthday, but sometime sooner rather than later.  When is your birthday?  Next month?  In three months?  

I think couple bonding time is so important.  It's easy (and usually necessary) to put kids before everything else, and I know it can feel like a huge effort to create special time just with spouse.  But I would try and make it work within some time frame.  How about if your youngest was able to sleep with your other dd when you're gone?  (From your signature it looks like you have another dd.)  You can start talking about the fun sleepover they'll be having together at Grandma's house.  I remember leaving our kids (and we didn't leave them much) with my parents, a little worried, but they always had fun.  It was a different kind of special event for them, too, where they were spoiled and got to do things they're not used to doing at home.  And as along as they all had each other, they were fine.  

[TheReader]

Whether for your birthday or not, an idea that I haven't seen mentioned, from when I was nursing a toddler still and my DH and I needed a night away.  (difference: I was fully on board with the idea)

Since the airBnB is near your mom's place, could you take the kids, depart, spend some time in the room, eat dinner, return to do the bedtime routine with your littlest/get her to sleep (assuming she has a reasonable toddler bedtime), return to the airBnB knowing she's safely, contentedly snuggled in bed, enjoy some alone time with your DH, trust that Grandma will handle it if baby girl wakes up in the night, pop over in the morning/whatever time is the most "need mom cuddles and nursies" time, pop back out to go hang with your DH, etc.? 

This is what we did when it was us. Had good nursing snuggles before we left the kids; went to dinner, had some alone time, went by to do bedtime/get everyone to sleep. Enjoyed a room alone for the night. Etc. It worked pretty well, in that it helped me know the needs of my little one were being taken care of (my nursling was about 2.5 at that point), which let me relax enough to really enjoy the time alone with DH, which helped him not be annoyed that we were interrupting our time away to go tend kids.

Something to consider, that takes both of your needs into consideration (yours and your dh's, as well as your little one's). I definitely get the aspect of not wanting to be surprised by this, etc.  I hope you guys can arrive at a compromise/agreement that you both like. 

[sassenach]

I would do it. I’ve never regretted prioritizing my husband and marriage. And my kids have always been fine. Better than I thought they would be. 

[hjffkj]

7 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Whether for your birthday or not, an idea that I haven't seen mentioned, from when I was nursing a toddler still and my DH and I needed a night away.  (difference: I was fully on board with the idea)

Since the airBnB is near your mom's place, could you take the kids, depart, spend some time in the room, eat dinner, return to do the bedtime routine with your littlest/get her to sleep (assuming she has a reasonable toddler bedtime), return to the airBnB knowing she's safely, contentedly snuggled in bed, enjoy some alone time with your DH, trust that Grandma will handle it if baby girl wakes up in the night, pop over in the morning/whatever time is the most "need mom cuddles and nursies" time, pop back out to go hang with your DH, etc.? 

This is what we did when it was us. Had good nursing snuggles before we left the kids; went to dinner, had some alone time, went by to do bedtime/get everyone to sleep. Enjoyed a room alone for the night. Etc. It worked pretty well, in that it helped me know the needs of my little one were being taken care of (my nursling was about 2.5 at that point), which let me relax enough to really enjoy the time alone with DH, which helped him not be annoyed that we were interrupting our time away to go tend kids.

Something to consider, that takes both of your needs into consideration (yours and your dh's, as well as your little one's). I definitely get the aspect of not wanting to be surprised by this, etc.  I hope you guys can arrive at a compromise/agreement that you both like. 

I would find this approach to likely be more traumatizing to a kid if they did wake up in the middle of the night unless they knew mom wouldn't be there. But them knowing would defeat the purpose of doing it that way because a kid who knew mom would be there until they were asleep would likely fight sleep on purpose

[StaceyinLA]

I understand not wanting to hurt your dh's feelings, but I tend to be in the camp of not separating from my little ones til they're ready. I realize I may have an unpopular opinion, but we are adults, and WE can understand why now is not a good/comfortable time for us to do certain things. Toddlers don't understand that. They only know they are used to mom being there when they wake up sad, scared, and wanting to nurse.

I realize the issues about staying connected and keeping your marriage strong, but there are ways to do that without going away for a weekend. We live in a "me" society, but when you have little ones, me doesn't always get to come first. 

 

[Hannah]

I couldn't leave a child who will be traumatized by me not being there either, whatever their age.  My sister actually developed a stutter for 3 years after she was left at my aunt's house when she was 3.  

Assuming that this is what it is about, maybe the conversation with dh has to be around how to rekindle intimacy and desire while you stay at home?

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, linders said:

Very, very gently. I'm I understanding your siggie correctly that the "baby" is almost 3? No judgement here on nursing and nighttime cuddles. However....maybe at this point, DH is feeling the loss of bonding time with you. You mentioned he works a lot. That relationship is important, too.

Yes, he should have asked, but...could you possibly consider a one-night thing? Has your mom previously spend time with the little one? If you feel that your mom is a good cuddly grandma, she can handle the one night. And it might actually be good for the little one - I really don't think one night will traumatize. And ultimately, it would likely be good for you, too.

 

20 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I would do it. I’ve never regretted prioritizing my husband and marriage. And my kids have always been fine. Better than I thought they would be. 

So...ugh. 

1. I would consider one night. Two is too long for both the comfort of my breasts and my heart. But we didn't even discuss it. He got all quiet and upset, and then went for a walk. I did realize he wants time with me, probably of the adult nature, and that has been harder to come by lately due to my SAD, back pain I'm finally getting physical therapy for, etc etc. So when he came back I suggested we go to our room and do that. He just shrugged and said, "maybe later". 

Given that he NEVEr turns that down, it was him pouting, or making a point, I don't know, but whatever. I took a muscle relaxer and went to bed without him. I'm not dealing with him pouting because he doesn't get what HE wants on MY birthday! Whose present was this anyway? Now Im supposed to feel badly about my birthday? Nope. Not happening. 

He's still extra quiet this morning. Whatever. I got up and made him a lunch and dinner as he will be gone late tonight, before I had coffee. I tried to have tEA last night. I took care of a sick kid, homeschooled another kid, managed a 2 yr old, got groceries, met with the repair man, cleaned the house, and made dinner using just the cook top with no working over yesterday. I refuse to feel like a bad wife because I don't like to leave my nursing toddlers for two nights. 

And if he wants the toddler to be more independent from me, maybe HE should spend more time dealing with her before foisting her on grandma!

That said, if he decides to get his stress hormones under control and not all angsty, I will discuss one night. My guess is he will say one night isn't worth it. Grandma would be happy to sleep with DD2 and would manage, but two nights is beyond my comfort zone for how long I'm willing to be away. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Ktgrok

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Hannah said:

I couldn't leave a child who will be traumatized by me not being there either, whatever their age.  My sister actually developed a stutter for 3 years after she was left at my aunt's house when she was 3.  

Assuming that this is what it is about, maybe the conversation with dh has to be around how to rekindle intimacy and desire while you stay at home?

Yeah, I think this is more it. 

Intimacy due to my SAD has been less. And then my back pain flared up, so if I take a muscle relaxer at night it knocks me out cold before anything adult can happen. 

I have also been sleeping in the other room a lot - where DD sleeps. But not because DD sleeps there, but because DH snores!  He has requested a sleep study thankfully, and we are waiting to get a referral, so hopefully that will get better. 

But yes, I need to prioritize TeA time and alone time with him more. 

Although I just got my period, so dude should have taken me up on it last night when I suggested. 

[sassenach]

8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

So...ugh. 

1. I would consider one night. Two is too long for both the comfort of my breasts and my heart. But we didn't even discuss it. He got all quiet and upset, and then went for a walk. I did realize he wants time with me, probably of the adult nature, and that has been harder to come by lately due to my SAD, back pain I'm finally getting physical therapy for, etc etc. So when he came back I suggested we go to our room and do that. He just shrugged and said, "maybe later". 

Given that he NEVEr turns that down, it was him pouting, or making a point, I don't know, but whatever. I took a muscle relaxer and went to bed without him. I'm not dealing with him pouting because he doesn't get what HE wants on MY birthday! Whose present was this anyway? Now Im supposed to feel badly about my birthday? Nope. Not happening. 

He's still extra quiet this morning. Whatever. I got up and made him a lunch and dinner as he will be gone late tonight, before I had coffee. I tried to have tEA last night. I took care of a sick kid, homeschooled another kid, managed a 2 yr old, got groceries, met with the repair man, cleaned the house, and made dinner using just the cook top with no working over yesterday. I refuse to feel like a bad wife because I don't like to leave my nursing toddlers for two nights. 

And if he wants the toddler to be more independent from me, maybe HE should spend more time dealing with her before foisting her on grandma!

That said, if he decides to get his stress hormones under control and not all angsty, I will discuss one night. My guess is he will say one night isn't worth it. Grandma would be happy to sleep with DD2 and would manage, but two nights is beyond my comfort zone for how long I'm willing to be away. 

Ok, I get your frustration with the pouting. 
 

But, you know, this is probably not about tea. My guess is that it’s about time together and connection. What he’s feeling is rejection and that’s a valid feeling. You (like most moms) are very ready to prioritize your connection to your kids- their emotions, their comfort... you can see where I’m going here. 
 

Your feelings are valid, too. I just wouldn’t be so quick to distill his down to purely tea. 

[ktgrok]

9 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Well, the only thing is that it is for your birthday.  You get what you want.  

HOWEVER, this is a need that needs to be addressed.  You both need regular time alone with dates and time for TEA!!!  You must!!!!  ( I have been on your husband's side.)

So...  at some point have a conversation.  You are on the same team.  Ask him what he would like for this area:  a weekly date, TEA 2 or 3 times a week, whatever...  Then figure a compromise so you can make it happen.  All I heard from my husband when we were on your stage is that there will be plenty of time when the kids are grown...  Yeah, then you will not care anymore.  It will be too late.  So having regular initimate time with or without TEA, MUST be a priority.

I agree. 

I think part of the issue is that he is an all or nothing guy. So,  we are in a stage where a quickie will get you more action more frequently but he wants hours of long drawn out excitement - but I'm too tired for that and there is even odds a kid will wake up and interrupt, etc. Or I'd be happy to go spend an hour or two every sunday having coffee with him or lunch while the 20 yr old watches the kids, but he wants 2 nights away at a beach house. I think us grabbing a glass of wine at the new place that opened up down the street is a good idea - he wants a $200 dinner that takes 4 hours. 

There are a LOT of areas where we have had to discuss the whole "don't let perfect be the enemy of the good" thing, and I am realizing this is another one. (you know my thread about the table I redid? the reason it has looked so bad so long is that he kept saying I shouldn't paint it - or replace it - that he wanted to strip it and sand it and refinish it properly. Except it has been YEARS now and not done because neither of us have time to do that. So I just did it the less perfect way and he agrees it looks so much better now. Stuff like that. But with everything.)

Edited February 7, 2020 by Ktgrok

[TheReader]

35 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I would find this approach to likely be more traumatizing to a kid if they did wake up in the middle of the night unless they knew mom wouldn't be there. But them knowing would defeat the purpose of doing it that way because a kid who knew mom would be there until they were asleep would likely fight sleep on purpose

Like I said, it's what we did when we were in the same situation, when my 2.5 yr old was still nursing and nursing like a newborn really. He was fine, and it was a good way for us to compromise and care for everyone. 

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Like I said, it's what we did when we were in the same situation, when my 2.5 yr old was still nursing and nursing like a newborn really. He was fine, and it was a good way for us to compromise and care for everyone. 

If it were a conference or a have to make it work thing, I'd do that. As it is, I know my family, and my mom will suck us into conversation and we'll end up spending most of our time there, lol. 

[ktgrok]

My birthday is April 9th. I'd heard about this conference thing, and considered asking DH to go to that with me for my birthday, but not sure he'd like it or we'd get much out of it. But we could do a one night away thing - drop the kids off the day before, stay at a hotel next to the venue so we can get up early and get over there, then meet my parents somewhere afterward to pick them up. https://www.daveramsey.com/events/smart-conference-orlando.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAsvTxBRDkARIsAH4W_j-BH9Ws4HSreny2EcQRbrWlXIFVcsbjK1qb5w3uaCME0KE-58bfXfEaAvLFEALw_wcB

But it sure isn't a few days at the beach, which was what he had in mind. 

[ktgrok]

12 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I also wonder if his health issues lately might be making him assess and prioritize a bit different and if he was using the birthday as an excuse to do some connection and comforting HE needs, too.

Could you not compromise and get an airBNB close enough to grandma to swing in and nurse before bed and then leave again? A toddler doesn’t need much nursing nutritively, would that strike a better balance with maybe nursing before breakfast and after dinner to check in on her?

I’ve left several of my children, by choice and by emergency, for MULTIPLE days in that age range.  So I admit I don’t really get the angst over it, they all did just fine but also were pretty good as transitions and attachment with caregivers.  I do think your comfort matters, but I’d try really hard to look at this as one step that is important to him and your marriage rather than some deleterious life ruiner for your kid.  That’s how I handle it, anyway.  Wishing you success parsing out a solution 🙂

I think for a kid that is used to having various caregivers, it is less stressful. DD has been watched by DS20 a handful of times(well, he was technically in charge, but DD10 really handled everything, lol) and by my mom once. DH has watched her without me so few times I could probably count them on my fingers over 3 years. She refuses to go to the nursery at church, but is fine at the gym daycare with my other kids there too. 

One night I'm ready for, and I think she'd do okay. Two is too long for her at this point, and I'd worry, and worrying and feeling resentful for my birthday doesn't sound fun 😞

[Susan in TX]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think for a kid that is used to having various caregivers, it is less stressful. DD has been watched by DS20 a handful of times(well, he was technically in charge, but DD10 really handled everything, lol) and by my mom once. 😞

 

I would have a hard time leaving a kid overnight with someone who has only watched them once. 

Susan in TX

[Katy]

I would have a really hard time with passive aggressive pouting instead of talking about it.  Good for you for just going to bed.

That said, at some point this weekend I'd probably insist on discussing it.  Especially with his recent health problems.  DD won't be nursing for much longer.  She could just decide to be done with it at any time. 

[ktgrok]

Just now, Arctic Mama said:

I should clarify, my kids don’t go with babysitters or anything at that age either except the occasional date, business trip when I was sitting on the board, and medical emergency (like my newly two year old having to stay with grandma for three weeks while I was stuck in the nicu, he’d never been away before).

My point was more that some kids are sensitive, but most handle caregivers decently well at that age, especially if they’re also with siblings, like what you’re seeing at the gym 🙂 The nursing pain issue is probably my bigger content in the situation you’re looking at, which he may not be considering.

I’d probably apologize to him for accidentally hurting his feelings and explain your perspective before suggesting the single day option, if he’s still being grumpy.  But that seems like a reasonable compromise for your comfort level and his goals.  I could see him pushing for longer if he had a special event or such in mind for the trip, but just the beach?  Meh, a day and an overnight is a good little vacation, I think!  Especially since you wouldn’t be able to enjoy yourself if it were longer.

Also, we live in florida. An hour from the beach, lol. 

I should say in his defense, HE is not a beach person. I am. And with my SAD I am sure he felt that was a really nice thing for ME, to have a day at the beach no kids. And it is. 

What I'm thinking is instead of an Air BNB, we get a hotel room. We drive over early on Saturday, drop kids at my mom's house and make sure all are settled in. Say high to my parents, etc. Then go over to the beach and hang out on the beach until check in. We can change in the lobby bathroom or at my mom's or whatever, drop bags off at front desk I'm sure. Then wander up at check in time, have some adult time, shower, eat a nice dinner with no kids, maybe a nice walk on the beach in the dark, maybe make out on the beach like we did on our first date 🙂

In the morning check out but be in bathing suits so we can hang out on the beach after stowing stuff in the car. Then go get lunch together, then go to my parents (probably 15 minutes away) and get kids, with enough time to hang out there with them a bit before driving home. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

I would have a really hard time with passive aggressive pouting instead of talking about it.  Good for you for just going to bed.

That said, at some point this weekend I'd probably insist on discussing it.  Especially with his recent health problems.  DD won't be nursing for much longer.  She could just decide to be done with it at any time. 

Trust me, I have a hard time with it too. 

I've learned though that he really can't help it. He's like a cat - when his stress hormones kick in they take 24 hours to dissipate. So best to let him be and then likely he'll show up, apologize and mean it, and we can work it out. 

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Oh that sounds like a really lovely plan! 

Better than a day at a marriage/career/finance workshop I suppose, which was my other idea, lol. 

[maize]

6 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I should clarify, my kids don’t go with babysitters or anything at that age either except the occasional date, business trip when I was sitting on the board, and medical emergency (like my newly two year old having to stay with grandma for three weeks while I was stuck in the nicu, he’d never been away before).

My point was more that some kids are sensitive, but most handle caregivers decently well at that age, especially if they’re also with siblings, like what you’re seeing at the gym 🙂 The nursing pain issue is probably my bigger content in the situation you’re looking at, which he may not be considering.

 

I really think you have to trust mom's intuition though.

I left my now five year old when she was a recently weaned 34 month toddler. I left her with my husband and most of her siblings while I took my oldest two to an out of state dance competition; we were gone for five days/four nights. I thought she would be fine because she had never been clingy with me (unique among my children) and was very much a Daddy's girl.

It completely changed her personality; for at least a year after that trip she clung to me like a limpet. My husband also hasn't quite forgiven me for the sleepless nights with a crying toddler who just wanted mom. 

Emergency situations are emergencies and everyone does what has to be done, including little people, and we cope with the consequences as best we can.

But yes being separated from a primary caregiver can represent real trauma for a young child, and if Mom has an inkling it might be traumatic to her child I would advise she follow her gut.

Edited February 7, 2020 by maize

[marbel]

Katie, I get you about the "all or nothing" guy!

It's hard to advise in situations like this, because families, kids, etc are so different. I think you have to trust your knowledge of your child on whether or not she would be OK.

Mostly I wanted to make a comment about passive-aggressive pouting. My husband used to think I was a passive-aggressive pouter, till I explained to him that I am a slow processor and need time to think things over/process my emotions. If we were having a disagreement or it seemed that we were heading toward a conflict, I would remain silent rather than speaking clumsily and escalating things. If my feelings are hurt, I need time to figure out why that is before I can respond to the hurt feelings. Finally I reached a point where I would say "OK, can we talk about this later, I need some time to think."  But it took me years to realize that just saying that would help him understand, and it took time for him to get it. (Similar to my easy crying when under stress - he had previously been married to a manipulative, cry-on-demand person, so he was wary when he saw me start to cry when, for example, we were disagreeing. But it is just my natural physical response to stressful situations.  I hate it but haven't managed to control it fully yet.)

Obviously I don't know  your husband and don't presume to understand him better than you do! I just know that even long-married people can have those communications breakdowns and misunderstandings about emotions and reactions.  So, just a thought, ignore if not relevant.

I do hope you find something that works for both of you! I empathize with both of you, and sometimes regret putting my kids over my husband when they were little, though I can't  specifically say what I would have done differently based on our circumstances at the time, kwim? 

Edited February 7, 2020 by marbel

[ktgrok]

46 minutes ago, maize said:

I really think you have to trust mom's intuition though.

I left my know five year old when she was a recently weaned 34 month toddler. I left her with my husband and most of her siblings while I took my oldest two to an out of state dance competition; we were gone for five days/four nights. I thought she would be fine because she had never been clingy with me (unique among my children) and was very much a Daddy's girl.

It completely changed her personality; for at least a year after that trip she clung to me like a limpet. My husband also hasn't quite forgiven me for the sleepless nights with a crying toddler who just wanted mom. 

Emergency situations are emergencies and everyone does what has to be done, including little people, and we cope with the consequences as best we can.

But yes being separated from a primary caregiver can represent real trauma for a young child, and if Mom has an inkling it might be traumatic to her child I would advise she follow her gut.

I don't think she'd be permanently traumatized. But I think my mom might be, depending, lol. My mom is a HUGE softie and having a child cry and not be able to fix it  up there with her worst nightmares, I'm positive. Probably where I get it from, lol. She never left us with anyone overnight ever, other than when she had my grandma watch me one night while she gave birth to my sister. 

So although sometimes I think she thinks I'm overprotective to not leave my kids, she can't really say anything as she never did either, lol!

That said, out of anyone in the world, I'd trust her to take care of my kids. I have no problem leaving the others overnight, other than when DS was having PANDAS flares and sleep anxiety. 

My older two stayed with her for two nights when I had the youngest, etc. 

25 minutes ago, marbel said:

Katie, I get you about the "all or nothing" guy!

It's hard to advise in situations like this, because families, kids, etc are so different. I think you have to trust your knowledge of your child on whether or not she would be OK.

Mostly I wanted to make a comment about passive-aggressive pouting. My husband used to think I was a passive-aggressive pouter, till I explained to him that I am a slow processor and need time to think things over/process my emotions. If we were having a disagreement or it seemed that we were heading toward a conflict, I would remain silent rather than speaking clumsily and escalating things. If my feelings are hurt, I need time to figure out why that is before I can respond to the hurt feelings. Finally I reached a point where I would say "OK, can we talk about this later, I need some time to think."  But it took me years to realize that just saying that would help him understand, and it took time for him to get it. (Similar to my easy crying when under stress - he had previously been married to a manipulative, cry-on-demand person, so he was wary when he saw me start to cry when, for example, we were disagreeing. But it is just my natural physical response to stressful situations.  I hate it but haven't managed to control it fully yet.)

Obviously I don't know  your husband and don't presume to understand him better than you do! I just know that even long-married people can have those communications breakdowns and misunderstandings about emotions and reactions.  So, just a thought, ignore if not relevant.

I do hope you find something that works for both of you! I empathize with both of you, and sometimes regret putting my kids over my husband when they were little, though I can't  specifically say what I would have done differently based on our circumstances at the time, kwim? 

Oh, this is exactly him. Which is why I just went to bed, lol. 

[fairfarmhand]

34 minutes ago, marbel said:

Katie, I get you about the "all or nothing" guy!

It's hard to advise in situations like this, because families, kids, etc are so different. I think you have to trust your knowledge of your child on whether or not she would be OK.

Mostly I wanted to make a comment about passive-aggressive pouting. My husband used to think I was a passive-aggressive pouter, till I explained to him that I am a slow processor and need time to think things over/process my emotions. If we were having a disagreement or it seemed that we were heading toward a conflict, I would remain silent rather than speaking clumsily and escalating things. If my feelings are hurt, I need time to figure out why that is before I can respond to the hurt feelings. Finally I reached a point where I would say "OK, can we talk about this later, I need some time to think."  But it took me years to realize that just saying that would help him understand, and it took time for him to get it. (Similar to my easy crying when under stress - he had previously been married to a manipulative, cry-on-demand person, so he was wary when he saw me start to cry when, for example, we were disagreeing. But it is just my natural physical response to stressful situations.  I hate it but haven't managed to control it fully yet.)

Obviously I don't know  your husband and don't presume to understand him better than you do! I just know that even long-married people can have those communications breakdowns and misunderstandings about emotions and reactions.  So, just a thought, ignore if not relevant.

I do hope you find something that works for both of you! I empathize with both of you, and sometimes regret putting my kids over my husband when they were little, though I can't  specifically say what I would have done differently based on our circumstances at the time, kwim? 

This is me too. And my dh would label my quiet as pouting when really I just needed time.

 

[ktgrok]

So I told him the 1 night idea in chat but he's focused on other stuff right now. Got bad news about his side job - it isn't going the direction he wanted. Also got lab work back and his cholesterol is high and he's bordering on pre-diabetic, on top of his blood pressure. Dr wants him to lose 12 pounds by may. And he admitted he's grumpy because he's constipated, lol. He cut back on coffee but didn't replace it with any other fluids. Oops. 

[maize]

19 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

So I told him the 1 night idea in chat but he's focused on other stuff right now. Got bad news about his side job - it isn't going the direction he wanted. Also got lab work back and his cholesterol is high and he's bordering on pre-diabetic, on top of his blood pressure. Dr wants him to lose 12 pounds by may. And he admitted he's grumpy because he's constipated, lol. He cut back on coffee but didn't replace it with any other fluids. Oops. 

Sounds like the two of you are communicating at least 🙂

physical stuff has so much effect on our mood.

[ktgrok]

45 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

That would make me grumpy too!  I’m glad you two are talking, it sounds like this needs to be tabled for at least a bit. Hugs to him, the lifestyle changes are lots of background stress on top of the work stress.

Yeah, in hindsight he was constipated and I had PMS, lol. No wonder we didn't communicate very well! Oh, and the 2 yr old was having a "no nap" day. 

41 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

Anyway, I think it's absolutely possible for a 2 or 3 year to spend a night away from mom or dad, even with a relative stranger, and avoid trauma.  But the first night can be hard, and I know that my ideal birthday present wouldn't be spending the night worrying that my kid was sad.  

I also wonder if this is an indication that you and your DH need to rethink a little how you share parenting your youngest.  I know that with my oldest, we really fell into roles where he did all the money earning, and worked enormous amounts of overtime, and I did all the caregiving, and in retrospect I regret it.  I think we were both kind of burnt out on our roles, and I think it impacted my oldest's relationship with Dad.  I also think that it was hard for him to appreciate what I did all day, when he had no experience.  He's been much more involved with each successive addition to our family, and I think that the dynamic we have now is just healthier.  So, my advice would be that one way you can get your daughter ready for this experience would be to find more opportunities for him to be alone with her, including bedtime, maybe with the 10 year old's help!  I think you could find that more experiences separating and reuniting would lead you to feel more comfortable with an eventual overnight, or your DH could find that more experience with how hard she is when she wants you would lead to him thinking of new ideas for birthday gifts, but either way that's a win.  

All this. It is doable, my mom is great with kids. BUT yeah, not my ideal birthday present. 

Also you and Arctic Mama hit the nail on the head. This has become our default, and it isn't healthy. With my first, I had to work part time to even come close to sort of paying our bills, and although my ideal is NOT working that much and being away that much, it meant my ex did spend time with him. Now....that wasn't ideal either as he was majorly depressed during parts and not a great caregiver, but you get the point. 

Then with my older daughter I worked just one day a week. Which wasn't a lot, but it meant he at least got a taste of caring for her, and she got used to being away from me a bit. And I had a monthly meeting that she was welcome at when still willing to sit still and nurse, but when she was a squirmy toddler she stayed home with DH. I was  a leader so had to go, and he had to deal. And he did. Those two things were SO good for their relationship, and they are still the closest in bond from it I think. 

Then I quit working, and DH added a side job and then started volunteering with a non profit and then became a board member and is now President of the Board for the 2nd year, plus getting a Masters Degree PLUS both jobs. Which means there just not much or any time that he is with all the kids and I'm gone. It's something I just started really looking at in the last few months (partly with the help of people here pointing out how unsustainable it is). He's started taking her to the store if he has an errand sometimes, and a few times has taken her for a walk in the last week while he walks the dog. 

I do need to schedule some more time that they are together, without me, but not sure where on earth to find that time. I'm thinking maybe we will drop scouts next year. It is a great program, but at the end of the day we get so little family time that I think it is better to have an evening in or me join a book group or something than all us trudge over to scouts. Half the time none of us wants to go. 

Anyway, yes, this is a huge factor. I'm feeling really burnt out, and he's stressed over other stuff, and yeah. 

3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Side bunny trail, not talking to you Kt, so disregard this 🙂

@CuriousMomof3 that was totally us the first few kids, I did pretty much all the caregiving outside of play and the occasional table feeds.  That nonsense had to change by kid five or so, and went right on its head by the time Benjamin rolled around.  Now I am gone at least four or five hours a few evenings per week and could jaunt away for weeks at a time without the kids doing much more than just wondering what I’m up to.  My husband can work part time, administer basic homeschool schedules, feeds, bedtime, and the school bus and appointment fun, entirely without me sending him more than the most basic of schedules.  And honestly it’s been that way since I was about six weeks postpartum with the aforementioned troublemaker.  Pumped milk and a competent caregiver went a long way. And I feel much less burned out now, even though I have so many more demands on my body and schedule.  
 

Not saying that works for every family, but man it’s nice to be needed and loved but not tethered at the hip to all the kids, all the time, even the infants.  It’s a lot more of an equitable split in general now, and him taking entirely over, even with the help of babysitters like what we did this last month, would not have been possible a few kids ago because I didn’t teach and expect him to fill those roles occasionally. Now he is comfortable in it so it isn’t a big strain for any of us. I encourage a lot more balance with that now with other moms when we chat than I used to.  My marriage is healthier and I function better than it doesn’t feel like the entire daily system will break down if we have a hospitalization or I want a weekend away at a conference with friends. Whew!

You actually bring up a big point I hadn't considered - that if there is an emergency it is best if the kids are already used to other people, not just me. 

[ktgrok]

I think another factor is there has been way too much chaos in our house lately. Me decluttering meant tons of stuff pulled out, bins everywhere, etc for weeks. Then the table redo. Plus kids who have gotten a bit too crazy/out of sorts. Lots of noise and chaos, bedtimes not being enforced, etc. 

He may really be wanting some peace, and I am too. Going to work on that. 

[marbel]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Oh, this is exactly him. Which is why I just went to bed, lol. 

Ah OK. I misinterpreted your post when you said he was pouting.  

[linders]

On 2/7/2020 at 8:57 AM, Ktgrok said:

That said, if he decides to get his stress hormones under control and not all angsty, I will discuss one night. My guess is he will say one night isn't worth it. Grandma would be happy to sleep with DD2 and would manage, but two nights is beyond my comfort zone for how long I'm willing to be away. 

Well, if you are willing to consider one night, I would offer him that chance. If he turns it down, then it is on him. I personally think one night would be quite worth it, and a gracious compromise on your part.

[J-rap]

23 hours ago, marbel said:

Katie, I get you about the "all or nothing" guy!

It's hard to advise in situations like this, because families, kids, etc are so different. I think you have to trust your knowledge of your child on whether or not she would be OK.

Mostly I wanted to make a comment about passive-aggressive pouting. My husband used to think I was a passive-aggressive pouter, till I explained to him that I am a slow processor and need time to think things over/process my emotions. If we were having a disagreement or it seemed that we were heading toward a conflict, I would remain silent rather than speaking clumsily and escalating things. If my feelings are hurt, I need time to figure out why that is before I can respond to the hurt feelings. Finally I reached a point where I would say "OK, can we talk about this later, I need some time to think."  But it took me years to realize that just saying that would help him understand, and it took time for him to get it. (Similar to my easy crying when under stress - he had previously been married to a manipulative, cry-on-demand person, so he was wary when he saw me start to cry when, for example, we were disagreeing. But it is just my natural physical response to stressful situations.  I hate it but haven't managed to control it fully yet.)

Obviously I don't know  your husband and don't presume to understand him better than you do! I just know that even long-married people can have those communications breakdowns and misunderstandings about emotions and reactions.  So, just a thought, ignore if not relevant.

I do hope you find something that works for both of you! I empathize with both of you, and sometimes regret putting my kids over my husband when they were little, though I can't  specifically say what I would have done differently based on our circumstances at the time, kwim? 

Boy, this is sure me.  And I only really been recognizing this in the past 10 years or so.  I always feel things so loudly, emotionally...  I have to wait for emotions to settle down so I can see what's really on the table.  Even then, it's like my brain is slowly rearranging the cards on the table so that they're in the right order, and then I can finally see things more clearly.  I don't know why it took me so many years to realize that about myself, but it has been life-changing.  If I have a complex problem to figure out and can't, I've learned to be patient (usually) and just give it time.  Usually at some point later on, the solution seems obvious.  

[Paige]

I wouldn't do it and I'd be mad if DH pouted about it. It's your birthday, not his, and you know your children better than him. I don't say that as default because you're the mom, but if he never puts your littlest to bed, then, yeah, you know her better.

I agree it's possible to leave a 2-3yr old, or even a younger child without traumatizing them, but it's also possible that they will be traumatized. But even if traumatize is too strong of a word, if you aren't ready for overnight visits, then there's no reason to feel guilty. Your feelings and your baby's feelings are important and valid. I left my then 4 yr old for 2-3 nights when another child was in the hospital. It wasn't an emergency or anything so she wasn't stressed about that. When I came home, we learned from our other kids that despite the grandparents assurances that everything was fine, that it had been pretty traumatizing for both DD and the grandparents, and my other kids who had to see it.

My LO is a little younger than yours but he still nurses and sounds similar. There is no way. I wouldn't do that to my parents or other kids who would end up taking the burden of soothing since DS knows them better than his grandparents. My DH never puts him to bed- only me (yes, I'm a little bitter), so if he wanted to go out for some teatime on my birthday, he'd better be the one putting DS to bed and keeping him asleep all night if he wakes for a few weeks at the least. He would need to get DS used to not having me and he'd need to see what he's asking of the grandparents and siblings.

I dunno, it seems selfish and maybe I'm projecting. He doesn't deal with all the night care and puts it on you but he's perfectly fine putting it on your mom with no idea of how the LO will react, and expects you to be fine away not knowing how LO is doing? 

But DH and I are in agreement. We are 100% both not ok leaving DS with his grandparents because we think they are too old. They have asked to have him overnight but neither of us would consider it until he's much older. 

Would your DH be happy if you got an Airbnb near grandma and let her watch the littlest and the others during the day but bring the youngest back with you at night? I'd do that.