What tests to ask for?

[mmasc]

Gently please. How do I know if the place I’m considering going to for LD testing is good? I don’t have any word of mouth and just basically found them through a google search. They claim they do educational testing and this is a certified board psychologist. Is that what I want? Specifically, what questions do I NEED to ask/make sure of when I call??? What will they test? I’ve read many times on this board where testing is super great, and also where it did nothing helpful at all, so I’m nervous. And as you all know, it’s very expensive. I just think it’s time, yet don’t know where to start.  And I could use some encouragement that this testing would indeed actually be helpful. I’ve always gone off the assumption that I’m already tailoring his education to what he needs, so what will change??? Will I actually get helpful info??? Or just yep, I knew all that all along and go on with what I’ve been doing. *sigh* 
 

I have a long, busy morning but will definitely check back with you all this afternoon and respond. Thank you in advance for your guidance.

[kbutton]

Have you called them to find out how they do things? Some places test a whole bunch, while others tests a couple of basic things, get a feel for what they are seeing and then do additional tests according to their impression of initial testing (my preference). 

Also, do you have an inkling of what might be up? That can sometimes help you ask better questions or discern the quality of the answers you get?

3 hours ago, mmasc said:

And I could use some encouragement that this testing would indeed actually be helpful. I’ve always gone off the assumption that I’m already tailoring his education to what he needs, so what will change??? Will I actually get helpful info??? Or just yep, I knew all that all along and go on with what I’ve been doing. *sigh* 

I have found that five of the six rounds of psych testing we've done helpful, and the testers I used were always recommended to me. We have had other testing done on the side--speech therapy, audiology, vision, etc. Almost all of that testing was also helpful. 

Confirmation can be a blessing, but it does feel anti-climactic if it doesn't come coupled with actionable suggestions. I am not sure how you find out if the psych gives actionable suggestions other than maybe asking around. Maybe they would agree to give you a sample report from a "composite" or typical client that is fictionalized enough to not violate privacy.

Sometimes the problem is not what you think it is, or there are more things than you knew about, and then evals are extremely helpful.

Whatever you find, you can always ask here for materials to remediate issues. Remediation is DIFFERENT than using regular materials to attempt to meet a child where they are at. People are scared off by remediation, but it can often be the best and fastest way to get results. Psychs are a mixed bag on recommending remediation materials, but the good ones will take feedback from clients when clients find new resources and pass the information back to them. Or, they notice their clients are hitting their head against a wall and also work on seeking out new resources.

Our family has used a mix of remediation and meeting kids where they are at, combined with having tutors or other professionals do the same, but without targeted evals, we'd have been dead in the water.

Both my kids have had multiple evals. Only one was a dud--I really failed to discern that the tester was not 2e friendly. He sounded so good, but really, he didn't necessarily believe that kids who were 2e would look 2e. He expected them to look gifted or to have a very obvious LD but still test like straight gifted. It was a waste in many ways. All our other evals were helpful in some way or another. 

If you think your dealing with gifted kids that have issues, definitely try to find someone that tests lots of gifted kids. It stinks to not have firsthand recommendations, but you do have to start someplace.

Our best psych evals have been with the psychologists (and educational psychologist vs. neuropsychologist) who actually does counseling for families dealing with LDs and such and who is expanding her business to include bringing in people to do some of the therapies/tutoring. 

[mmasc]

Thank you for your response! I’ll try to hit on some questions. No, I haven’t called yet and it looks like they are probably just psychologists, not specifically ‘educational psychologists’. (I guess?) On the website it states they can test for ‘Learning Disability, including dyslexia’. They also state that they will do a one hour intake session and then see what additional testing needs to be done, which could take 1-6 hours depending on tests needed. So maybe that’s good???

re: what do I suspect? I’ve long suspected dyslexia (probably since he was just 4 or 5. He’s 11 now) and have used many things to address it, but I do appreciate what you said about remediation and not just meeting a child where he’s at. I’ve always felt like I’m doing that, but I can see where remediation could be better and look different. But now, a few years down the road, and I really suspect all the dys-es...dyscalculia maybe. Math seems to be getting harder and harder. (I’ve posted about that too). Maybe even dysgraphia. But he’s been progressing really well with typing so that’s good. If I had to venture another guess, I’d go with some executive function issues. I don’t think he has adhd though, so I’m not sure. 
 

re: other testing. About 3-4 years ago we had an SLP do some (?) test, and then worked with him on reading exercises. It wasn’t impressive or seemingly helpful so we stopped after a few months. Around that same time we had the full testing of an audiologist and there’s not auditory processing stuff going on. We finished vision therapy about 6 months ago and that has helped him with reading. No more skipping lines and losing his place! 

mostly, I feel like I’m meeting him where he is and we’re going at his pace, but everything is just SO hard and I feel like he’s falling further and further ‘behind’ even though we’re working. I just don’t want him to start feeling ‘dumb’. I know he gets discouraged often. 😔

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, mmasc said:

They also state that they will do a one hour intake session and then see what additional testing needs to be done, which could take 1-6 hours depending on tests needed. So maybe that’s good???

That sounds like they customize what testing they do. It's pretty standard to have an intake. You'll probably get forms to fill out, but you will want to go in with a timeline of how the difficulties have played out, what you've done to help, and how it's gotten better or not. You'll want them to know how much intervention he's had with VT and an SLP as well, and document how you think it helped or didn't help. Take any SLP reports with you if they have testing data. If you feel it wasn't accurate, you might just mention what was done and your impressions and leave it at that.

They will almost definitely do WISC V and some version of the Woodcock Johnson as a base (IQ and academics).

4 hours ago, mmasc said:

re: what do I suspect? I’ve long suspected dyslexia (probably since he was just 4 or 5. He’s 11 now) and have used many things to address it, but I do appreciate what you said about remediation and not just meeting a child where he’s at. I’ve always felt like I’m doing that, but I can see where remediation could be better and look different.

I think it sounds like you understand the difference, but I do hope that you'll get some tips to make things smoother and easier! 11 is a hard age too. 

4 hours ago, mmasc said:

I really suspect all the dys-es...dyscalculia maybe. Math seems to be getting harder and harder. (I’ve posted about that too). Maybe even dysgraphia. But he’s been progressing really well with typing so that’s good. If I had to venture another guess, I’d go with some executive function issues. I don’t think he has adhd though, so I’m not sure. 

My dyslexic kiddo got a late diagnosis, and he compensated well, so others might have more thorough suggestions for testing. I know you want a CTOPP. I am not sure if there are significant tests for dyscalculia, but my son was diagnosed with it specifically for calculation based on discrepancies between things like the Woodcock Johnson subtests and his actual math progress and number sense.

With the dysgraphia, some testers will specifically split apart handwriting and the actual ability to put thoughts into words and organize writing (disorder of written expression). 

If you think he has trouble getting thoughts into words, you might want some open-ended testing for language, such as the Test of Narrative Language. A lot of expression is dependent on narrative language being solid, and the test is very simple and revealing. A lot of language tests are multiple choice, and it's easier for difficulties to be masked on a test like that.

4 hours ago, mmasc said:

mostly, I feel like I’m meeting him where he is and we’re going at his pace, but everything is just SO hard and I feel like he’s falling further and further ‘behind’ even though we’re working. I just don’t want him to start feeling ‘dumb’. I know he gets discouraged often. 😔

Good job on getting testing! It's really hard to watch kids struggle and work harder than they should have to.

Hopefully others will chime in with other testing ideas.

[mmasc]

Thank you so much for your time and help @kbutton  It definitely gives me a starting point for what to look into/ask about/research. I need to go back and see what test the SLP did. That’s a good reminder. 

[mmasc]

@PeterPan you must be on your cruise to not be chiming in 😁

[Storygirl]

I agree with everything kbutton said. I think that instead of requesting specific tests, you could ask what tests they run, when the things that you are concerned about are in question. My experience is that psychs have things that they like to use, and that it is less about requesting certain tests and more about making sure they have experience with situations like yours. If you can get a list of tests that they might use, you can google them or post their names there to learn more about them.

With that said, CTOPP is pretty standard for dyslexia testing. Plus IQ testing such as the WISC. Screening for ADHD should be done, and there are several ways to do this, so it's something you can ask specifically about (Do they use a computer test, such as Quotient or TOVA? Which paper screening tool do they use -- Connors, Vanderbilt, etc -- and what do they recommend when/if the family is homeschooling and does not have a teacher to fill out the teacher forms).

There is not a standard test for dyscalculia, so you can ask how they determine that and how they decide if the math issues are really due to dyslexia or are a separate math disability. There is not a standard test for dysgraphia, and kbutton is correct that there can be more than one reason for trouble with writing, so asking how they evaluate writing issues might be helpful.

Math and writing difficulties can be part of dyslexia, or they can be their own disabilities. It might be helpful for you to ask how they tease that out.

Some psychs are more available to answer questions like this ahead of time, and some are not and might say that they don't know what tests they will use until they have done some initial testing first to help them form a plan. So they will do the IQ testing and then follow up with other tests that provide more data about the concerns that they see in the IQ testing.  We've had a lot of testing by several psychs, private and school based, and I have not had to make my own list of recommended tests for them to use. But if there is a certain test that you are particularly desiring them to run, you can ask if they own it. They can't run it, if they don't own it.

[PeterPan]

On 1/30/2020 at 5:28 PM, mmasc said:

@PeterPan you must be on your cruise to not be chiming in 😁

Yeah suffered for education 😂😂😂